NHL teams boycotting Olympics?

Players that are dressing for their NHL teams keep withdrawing from the Olympic games to use the break as a rest/rehab period.
:speechles

question: once teams' doctors suggest their players to not take part to heel a physical problem, can they suspend payments to a player (until he comes back) in the case he decides to go to Torino none the less and gets injured? Can they use this threat (be it openly or covertly) to discourage a player from taking part?

Players that are dressing for their NHL teams keep withdrawing from the Olympic games to use the break as a rest/rehab period.
:speechles

question: once teams' doctors suggest their players to not take part to heel a physical problem, can they suspend payments to a player (until he comes back) in the case he decides to go to Torino none the less and gets injured? Can they use this threat (be it openly or covertly) to discourage a player from taking part?

That would not hold in court, but I dont think players really want to argue much with their employer. It's the morality and ethics of these employers that is in question here. They know their players will listen when they tell them not to, they just should not be telling the players this.

I can't imagine they could get away with that, I mean the owners won the Lo****t (that's dirty word), but I can't imagine they won that much. Besides for younger guys like Lethonen and Kiprusoft, staying out and rehabing means they can earn longer and they can always complete later. These guys don't want to jeprodize their futures. Though I get what your staying.

Players that are dressing for their NHL teams keep withdrawing from the Olympic games to use the break as a rest/rehab period.
:speechles

question: once teams' doctors suggest their players to not take part to heel a physical problem, can they suspend payments to a player (until he comes back) in the case he decides to go to Torino none the less and gets injured? Can they use this threat (be it openly or covertly) to discourage a player from taking part?

No they can't because of the NHL-IOC agreement, NHL teams aren't meant to have any say in weather players participate or not. Unfortunately, with circumstance they have the back door of "you need a rest, rest now"

No they can't because of the NHL-IOC agreement, NHL teams aren't meant to have any say in weather players participate or not. Unfortunately, with circumstance they have the back door of "you need a rest, rest now" :shakehead
So it seems to be that they couldn't but they do!

The NHL is paying these guys' salary, it needs to be priority #1;The NHL teams pay salaries to make the players play in the NHL (and they are doing it), not to not play in other competition while the NHL is closed.

That means it's right players don't stop playing in the NHL the last weeks before the games to heel their minor injuries in order to be in perfect shape for the Olympics, but that's it.

glad to see some of them are making it so.Are you sure they feel 100% free to decide?

I wish all Rangers would call in sick for the Olympics..


I'm still one of those that thinks it should be amatuers, or at least Pro's who haven't played more than, lets say, 10 NHL games..

I wish all Rangers would call in sick for the Olympics..


I'm still one of those that thinks it should be amatuers, or at least Pro's who haven't played more than, lets say, 10 NHL games..I wish all your rangers got injured in their first game after the Olympics!! :jump:

I wish all your rangers got injured in their first game after the Olympics!! :jump:

That's adorable..

Now, let's get back to the finger painting..

That's adorable.. I tried to get down to your level..

I tried to get down to your level..


Don't bother..

It's dirty, full of rats, and smells HORRIBLE..

It is just a Finnish conspiracy. Nabby can go, Lundqvist can go.Kolzig can play, Aebischer and Gerber are allowed Vokoun? Hasek? No problem there.. So two Finnish players are not playing and all of the sudden the NHL is is trying to stop players from playing. Take the blinders off and see how many ARE playing. Enough with the unbelievable whining.

It is just a Finnish conspiracy. Nabby can go, Lundqvist can go.Kolzig can play, Aebischer and Gerber are allowed Vokoun? Hasek? No problem there.. Are they suffering from any kind of injuries?

So two Finnish players are not playing and all of the sudden the NHL is is trying to stop players from playing.Fedorov and Samsonov are playing for their NHL teams and were not Finnish last time i checked though.

That would not hold in court, but I dont think players really want to argue much with their employer. It's the morality and ethics of these employers that is in question here. They know their players will listen when they tell them not to, they just should not be telling the players this.

Why not?

If I were an Owner I would have every right to tell my player (employe) that he could not play in any non team function.

I can not understand how it is imoral or unethical to tell a player who is injured or in need of rest to not go to the Olympics.

Why not?

If I were an Owner I would have every right to tell my player (employe) that he could not play in any non team function.

I can not understand how it is imoral or unethical to tell a player who is injured or in need of rest to not go to the Olympics.

It is when they are saying "you can play for us but you cant play for your country even though the league says you can". If they were injured, I would understand that they cant play. Then they would not play for their team either.

I wish all Rangers would call in sick for the Olympics..


I'm still one of those that thinks it should be amatuers, or at least Pro's who haven't played more than, lets say, 10 NHL games..
Yeah who wouldn't want amateurs in the Olympics. So it would be like now, except no one would be watching and the level of play would be a million times lower. Sounds like a dream come true. Because that's the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE!!!!

I don't think its right that an NHL team can sway their decision either way. Granted they have an obligation to their team but as far as i'm concerned you are an athlete and you have an obligation to your country during your time off if you are healthy. Which is why Lehtonan and Kipper seem to be taking time off.

After saying this, if I ran an NHL team I would kind of hint that I would rather them take it off so they can heighten their chances of being healthy for the playoffs/rest of the season but I don't think I would hold it against anyone for going out and representing their country.

It is when they are saying "you can play for us but you cant play for your country even though the league says you can". If they were injured, I would understand that they cant play. Then they would not play for their team either. :clap:

Yeah who wouldn't want amateurs in the Olympics. So it would be like now, except no one would be watching and the level of play would be a million times lower. Sounds like a dream come true. Because that's the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE!!!!

Everybody outside North America (and many inside as well) would still be watching, albeit with less enthusiasm.

The olympics suck. The only people who care about them are Canadians. They are bitter about the other countries taking "THEIR" jobs away, and they want to say to the world.

na na nah na na

If I were an Owner I would have every right to tell my player (employe) that he could not play in any non team function.

I can not understand how it is imoral or unethical to tell a player who is injured or in need of rest to not go to the Olympics.
The NHL teams pay salaries to the players to play in the NHL (and they are doing it), not to not play in other competition while the NHL is closed.

Everybody outside North America (and many inside as well) would still be watching, albeit with less enthusiasm.
I'm not so sure... "Amateurs" would mean a lot lower level than the world championships.

The olympics suck. The only people who care about them are Canadians. They are bitter about the other countries taking "THEIR" jobs away, and they want to say to the world.

na na nah na na
Actually, pretty much everyone cares about it, except a few guys who just can't take it when they're not winning.

The olympics suck. The only people who care about them are Canadians. They are bitter about the other countries taking "THEIR" jobs away, and they want to say to the world.:joker:

Actually it's that the only people thinking the NHL is more important than the Olympics are Americans!
Everyone aside from (not winning) Americans care more about Olympics than about the NHL.

note: everyone aside Americans basically means THE WORLD!

Yeah who wouldn't want amateurs in the Olympics. So it would be like now, except no one would be watching and the level of play would be a million times lower. Sounds like a dream come true. Because that's the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE!!!!


You must be too young to remember the Olympics before the pro's.

The level of play was almost, that's ALMOST, on par, as the teams had been together longer and played together better.

And it was never lacking in excitement, nor viewers.

I'd rather see National teams go at it, then a bunch of Pro's take a couple weeks off for Exhibitions sake.

:joker:

Actually it's that the only people thinking the NHL is more important than the Olympics are Americans!
Everyone aside from (not winning) Americans care more about Olympics than about the NHL.

note: everyone aside Americans basically means THE WORLD!


Which one provides the players livelihood, and which one is a 2 week tourney every 4 years?

I'd say the players care more about the NHL once they make it. the whole making a living thing..

You must be too young to remember the Olympics before the pro's.

The level of play was almost, that's ALMOST, on par, as the teams had been together longer and played together better..Unfortunately, someone is old enough to remember that in the pre-PRO era the level was WAY lower than at Nagano and Salt Lake City.

Unfortunately, someone is old enough to remember that in the pre-PRO era the level was WAY lower than at Nagano and Salt Lake City.


WAY??

Yeah, um, not so much.

uuuh

AMATEURS competing at the same level as the absolute best professionals is just... well I don't know what to say.

It's real easy to make something seem silly when you say stuff like "just two weeks of guys skating in a rink every four years" but the simple truth is these guys care. A LOT. They wouldn't be where they are today if they didn't favor winning over money. So we have the best hockey players in the world fighting their hearts out because they won't have another chance for 4 years, what's not to like? Nostalgia?

I'd say the players care more about the NHL once they make it. the whole making a living thing..The players don't care more about NHL than about the Olympics. It's more important to win the Olympic title than to win the Stanley. The players care more about NHL money. So what? The point is just that players' money should not be jeopardized taking part in the Olympics!

NHL players care much more for the Stanley Cup than the Olympic title.

I can see it now. Hasek wins Gold. Ottawa falls early in the playoffs.


Hasek- "Let's Party!!!!"

I'll tell you, if Forsberg decides to play in the olympics as injury prone as he's been, I'll never respect the guy again. He's being paid by an organization to play and give his team everything he's got, not to prance around at the olympics (probably not get a medal... bronze at best) and possibly get injured and hurt his team.

First of all players playing in Europe are not amateurs they make a good living from the sport which is there job, thus they are professionals. :teach:

The NHL has a lot to gain from Olympics, as the big European get a chance to watch the NHL stars. This in turn creates a bigger market for the NHL in Europe. This is much more effective than some silly pre season tours of NHL teams in Europe. Additionally even in the US olympics attract additional fans to hockey.

Sure you can not force players to play in the olympics but for most of them this is a dream to take part in such a sporting event.

Maybe I missed something but the NHL is not like the most important league in the US, thus they really could use some additional free marketing and TV exposure the olympics provide for hockey.

I'll tell you, if Forsberg decides to play in the olympics as injury prone as he's been, I'll never respect the guy again. He's being paid by an organization to play and give his team everything he's got, not to prance around at the olympics (probably not get a medal... bronze at best) and possibly get injured and hurt his team. :shakehead
Your team already knew Forsberg was/is injury prone when decided to sign him for big bucks, and already knew he would have had the right to take part in the Olympics. Suck it up.

Fedorov and Samsonov are playing for their NHL teams and were not Finnish last time I checked though.

Ah yes, the Russian team. Those above mentioned players, along with others, have declined to play for Russia because of the past coaches, executives, etc that still insisted on treating the players like foot soldiers (Soviet-style) instead of professionals. The Russio-Soviet old school of coaching has not gone over very well with Russian NHLers, especially the veterans, hence why you'll see high profile Russian born players not playing for team Russia. The same thing would happen in Canada if it was Mike Keenan times 10 for every international tournament.

I'm still one of those that thinks it should be amatuers, or at least Pro's who haven't played more than, lets say, 10 NHL games..

The past Soviet teams that were always winning gold could have been considered professional teams. Those were essentially USSR-NHL equivalent skilled players playing amateur players. At least now every country is sending their best players

Maybe I missed something but the NHL is not like the most important league in the US, thus they really could use some additional free marketing and TV exposure the olympics provide for hockey.


That's the best argument I've heard for pro's in the Olympics, but I'd still rather watch NHL'er play NHL games, and National teams play in the Olympic tourneys..

The past Soviet teams that were always winning gold could have been considered professional teams. Those were essentially USSR-NHL equivalent skilled players playing amateur players. At least now every country is sending their best players


Absolutely true, but now that most country's best players are in the NHL, I'd like to see them all field teams of their best players NOT in the NHL.

Which would still be a very good talent pool.

I'd like to see them all field teams of their best players NOT in the NHL.



You know, guys who play in the AHL, the ECHL, the RSL, the SEL etc etc are no less professional than NHL players. They're just not as good.

If you went to true amaturs, you'd see CHL, CIU and NCAA players (north america anyway) playing for their countries. Oh wait, we do see that, it's called the World Junior Championships.

uuuh

AMATEURS competing at the same level as the absolute best professionals is just... well I don't know what to say.

Like in 1980, when a bunch of amateurs beat arguably the best hockey team in the world?

Players that are dressing for their NHL teams keep withdrawing from the Olympic games to use the break as a rest/rehab period.
:speechles

question: once teams' doctors suggest their players to not take part to heel a physical problem, can they suspend payments to a player (until he comes back) in the case he decides to go to Torino none the less and gets injured? Can they use this threat (be it openly or covertly) to discourage a player from taking part?


Since I really hate the idea of NHLers in the Olympics and think it’s stupid that the entire league has t shut down for nearly three weeks (the year after a lock out to boot)! --- I’m not heartbroken by this at all.

And frankly, I don’t blame NHL teams for not wanting their players to go ------- the risk is too great .... the teams don't care about a gold medal, they care about a silver cup and will do everything within their power to ensure the safety/health of their players while improving their chances of winning it all.

That's the best argument I've heard for pro's in the Olympics, but I'd still rather watch NHL'er play NHL games, and National teams play in the Olympic tourneys..
How would NHLers be any less a national team? The ONLY difference between them and the best non-NHL players is... well... they're better. Other than that all players spend their time and get their paycheck from some club team, so?

I'll tell you, if Forsberg decides to play in the olympics as injury prone as he's been, I'll never respect the guy again.He owes the Flyers so much. Had it not been for the Flyers Forsberg would never have become the world class player he is :sarcasm:

Like in 1980, when a bunch of amateurs beat arguably the best hockey team in the world?
Like in 1956 to 1988, when the Soviets won every olympics but two, yeah. That's exactly what I'm talking about. A different level then, even more now.

Hockey is still a business. The owners have every single right to tell their players that they shouldn't be playing elsewhere. Their job isn't to care about international play. Their job is to bring their team to the Cup, and if they feel that one of their employees would benefit from a rest, then that's their choice.

Is it right? No. A player shouldn't be discouraged from representing his country in ANYTHING. They should be encouraged. It's something people dream of. Do they have the right? 100% yes.

You must be too young to remember the Olympics before the pro's.

The level of play was almost, that's ALMOST, on par, as the teams had been together longer and played together better.

And it was never lacking in excitement, nor viewers.

I'd rather see National teams go at it, then a bunch of Pro's take a couple weeks off for Exhibitions sake.

Do you happen to remember, that then all the best players pretty much were amateurs?

To make it it amateurs would close out all the players in Finnish, Swedish, Czech, Russian, Swiss and many of Deutsch Elite Leagues.

Just think about that before talking about amateur level.

Are they suffering from any kind of injuries?

Fedorov and Samsonov are playing for their NHL teams and were not Finnish last time i checked though.
Fedorov has no more interest in playing for Russia than he does joining the KGB. Samsonov was either left off or is sour at management or both. The Bruins have not pressured him. It is such a small % we are talking about, yet the cry against the NHL is unreal. This talk of amateurs is perhaps one of the least intelligent arguments I have witnessed on these boards. All countries were comprised of professional players for the most part. The one argument I could live with is making the tourney an under 23 tourney like soccer( with a couple of overagers allowed) The problem would be the NHL not shutting down if that was the case and teams potentially trying to withhold services to even the playing field. Canada is running into a slight problem on defense, Niedermayer, Jovo and McCabe all have problems. I am not thinking conspiracy i'm only looking at who will fill in because that is all that matters- winning with what you have. The Finns are blessed with some quality depth. Canada is going in with three goalies that have been very up and down. The Olympics are not taking place in a vacuum where all countries get every player to play and play at 100%. There are players in form, players playing like crap, players not getting the ice time they deserve, players playing hurt for their clubs because they are paid to do so. Some players are just plain injured and cannot take part and others just do not wish to participate. All countries have to show up on the first day of the tourney and do the best they can with what they have. Crying about who is missing will not help in the medal chase. Some of the posters seem to have temporarily lost their minds with the anti NHL talk. Get a grip. To the poster talking about only Canadians caring about the Olympics? That is my top 10 for worst arguments and posts of the year.

NHL players care much more for the Stanley Cup than the Olympic title.

I can see it now. Hasek wins Gold. Ottawa falls early in the playoffs.


Hasek- "Let's Party!!!!"
Most north american players care more about the Stanley Cup and most european players care more about the Olympic gold medal/World Championship. Still, I think that the players should be to ones who decide whether they play for their national teams or not. Some may say this is the case now too but I disagree. It's the players who say that they have to decline but it's the clubs who says to the player what to say. I think that if a player who has been pressured by his team to decline to play for his country because he has a minor injury (and playing currently for his team with the injury) but decides to play anyway for his country can be dealt with and will most likely be dealt with. I think it's a big risk for the player to do something his team is opposing so I understand the players. I do not blame the players for playing safe, I blame the teams for not letting them heal while the NHL is in progress and making them miss the national games. I would understand if the players wouldn't play currently for their teams as well.

Hockey is still a business. The owners have every single right to tell their players that they shouldn't be playing elsewhere.And the players have every single right to say s.od off. I'm sure some of them did say that. It might actually be the reason there now is an Olympic break at all, since apparently some NHL owners don't like the Olympics all that much.

Hockey is still a business. The owners have every single right to tell their players that they shouldn't be playing elsewhere.

not since that the NHL has allowed the players to participate in the olympics remember?

The NHL has a lot to gain from Olympics, as the big European get a chance to watch the NHL stars.
Yeah, well, the European countries are still generally not interested in hockey, except for eastern Europe and Switzerland and such. Olympics is like a hype thing, it comes, you get excited, and after 2 weeks, it's over, and people could care less until the next one in 4 years. Do you think the Olympics did anything to help hockey's popularity in Japan? I didn't think so. Neither will it help for Italy and other European countries that are not generally a hockey country, especially when there's a World Cup the exact same year.

Promoting the NHL itself in Europe is the key factor in generating interest, not trying to promote international play.

And the players have every single right to say s.od off. I'm sure some of them did say that. It might actually be the reason there now is an Olympic break at all, since apparently some NHL owners don't like the Olympics all that much.

That's because during the Olympics, they're not making any money

Yeah, well, the European countries are still generally not interested in hockey, except for eastern Europe and Switzerland and such. Olympics is like a hype thing, it comes, you get excited, and after 2 weeks, it's over...LOL!!
Like commercial spots or any other advertisement: in the best case scenario, you get excited for two SECONDS and it's over! Yet the world is infested with advertisements :sarcasm:

Do you think the Olympics did anything to help hockey's popularity in Japan? I didn't think so. Neither will it help for Italy and other European countries that are not generally a hockey country, especially when there's a World Cup the exact same year.

Promoting the NHL itself in Europe is the key factor in generating interest, not trying to promote international play.Amazing blindness, really.
Top level, successful ice hockey Olympics in Europe with NHL players are easily the most powerful promo the NHL can have in Europe. By far more effective in generating interest than any promotional spot they can buy.

Amazing blindness, really.


Sigh.. Fine...

We all agree with helicecopter and feel shame for ever advancing a counter opinion.

Shame on any NHL'er who decides not to play, or any NHL owner who wishes his guys would just rest. SHAME..

Players that are dressing for their NHL teams keep withdrawing from the Olympic games to use the break as a rest/rehab period.
:speechles

question: once teams' doctors suggest their players to not take part to heel a physical problem, can they suspend payments to a player (until he comes back) in the case he decides to go to Torino none the less and gets injured? Can they use this threat (be it openly or covertly) to discourage a player from taking part?

The problem is, we just had a World Cup of hockey tournament 1.5 years ago. If you have a best on best tournament every two years, it loses its lustre and players are not willing to do it.

Having both the World Cup and Olympic Tournament cheapens both. Eliminate one of them and you will see more players willing to participate. It will be something special, like the World Cup of soccer, if we have a best on best once every four years.

Too many tournaments breeds apathy. Remember how many players opted out of the World Championships last year when there was no NHL hockey?

I actually don't care either way, if NHL players go or not. I just hate how screwed up the NHL season is during an Olympic year. I also wish the plkayers on my favourite team said no to going to the Olympics, and were healthy and rested for the run at the cup. Stanley is more important to me than a Gold Medal.

Shame on any NHL'er who decides not to play, or any NHL owner who wishes his guys would just rest. SHAME..I guess you are missing a key difference here.
I don't have any real problems with owners whishing their guys would just rest.. i have problems with owners pressuring their guys to rest during the Olympics while the NHL agreed to make all its players available.

I guess you are missing a key difference here.
I don't have any real problems with owners whishing their guys would just rest.. i have problems with owners pressuring their guys to rest during the Olympics while the NHL agreed to make all its players available.

Ah, there’s the rub …… the NHL doesn’t make all its players available for competition during the Olympics. If you're not a member of the "big six" you can forget about having an NHLer available for the entire tournament.

The problem is, we just had a World Cup of hockey tournament 1.5 years ago. If you have a best on best tournament every two years, it loses its lustre and players are not willing to do it.

Having both the World Cup and Olympic Tournament cheapens both. Eliminate one of them and you will see more players willing to participate. It will be something special, like the World Cup of soccer, if we have a best on best once every four years.

Too many tournaments breeds apathy. Remember how many players opted out of the World Championships last year when there was no NHL hockey?Agree only partially. The two tournament are different and it's much more the importance of the Olympics hurting the importance of the World Cup than the World Cup hurting the Olympics.
The World Cup is easier to accomodate with the NHL and provides time for teams to practice together. On the other hand, it's not played in the best season for hockey (September, and players not mid season form), more importantly is not as considered and stimulating for the players as the Olympics are and it's not played on international rinks. Also, its decisive part is always in North America, giving USA and Canada an advantage thus taking away fairness and consideration from European fans.

If you want to take away one of the two, it's the world cup that must go.
But the World Cup it's not the problems for the Olympics. You would still see the same numbers of players withdrawing from the Olympics while healthy enough to playing for their NHL teams..
The Olympics problem is accomodating with that redundant NHL schedule. That's where things should be fixed imo.

Ah, there?s the rub ?? the NHL doesn?t make all its players available for competition during the Olympics. If you're not a member of the "big six" you can forget about having an NHLer available for the entire tournament.That was true in 98 and 02 but not this year.

Ah, there’s the rub …… the NHL doesn’t make all its players available for competition during the Olympics. If you're not a member of the "big six" you can forget about having an NHLer available for the entire tournament.UH?
We are not in 2002 anymore, the Olympic tournament has the same length for any team taking part.

You know, guys who play in the AHL, the ECHL, the RSL, the SEL etc etc are no less professional than NHL players. They're just not as good.

If you went to true amaturs, you'd see CHL, CIU and NCAA players (north america anyway) playing for their countries. Oh wait, we do see that, it's called the World Junior Championships.

Actually, the CHL is considered "semi-pro".

Hockey is still a business. The owners have every single right to tell their players that they shouldn't be playing elsewhere. Their job isn't to care about international play. Their job is to bring their team to the Cup, and if they feel that one of their employees would benefit from a rest, then that's their choice.
Is it right? No. A player shouldn't be discouraged from representing his country in ANYTHING. They should be encouraged. It's something people dream of. Do they have the right? 100% yes.Maybe you have seen the agreement the NHL signed (with the IIHF) to let their players play in the Olympics and you have detected a caveat that allows owners to prevent players doing so? :help:

Ah yes, the Russian team. Those above mentioned players, along with others, have declined to play for Russia because of the past coaches, executives, etc that still insisted on treating the players like foot soldiers (Soviet-style) instead of professionals. The Russio-Soviet old school of coaching has not gone over very well with Russian NHLers, especially the veterans, hence why you'll see high profile Russian born players not playing for team Russia. I don't think Krikunov was the coach of the national team in the past. Anyway, Samsonov and Fedorov never declined to play for their country in the past. So they didn't have problems in the past when things were worse but they have now?

Ah, there’s the rub …… the NHL doesn’t make all its players available for competition during the Olympics. If you're not a member of the "big six" you can forget about having an NHLer available for the entire tournament.
Is that right? This thread is just full of incorrect info today.

Maybe you have seen the agreement the NHL signed (with the IIHF) to let their players play in the Olympics and you have detected a caveat that allows owners to prevent players doing so? :help:

If they want to go play, they're going to go play, but owners are well within their rights to suggest that they stay put and rest up. Most players will take the advice of those providing them with a paycheck, like it or not.

If they want to go play, they're going to go play, but owners are well within their rights to suggest that they stay put and rest up. Most players will take the advice of those providing them with a paycheck, like it or not.
Wow, most. Guess we'll be getting a whole lot of names pulled the coming weeks then!

Wow, most. Guess we'll be getting a whole lot of names pulled the coming weeks then!

That is assuming a majority of the owners are discouraging their players from playing. If playing in the Olympics is important to a player, they're going to be there regardless. It's not that big of a deal that some are backing out. It's just not as important to them as doing what's in the best interest for the club that provides their cash flow. They shouldn't be thought of any less because of that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't soccer players released from their club teams to play in the World Cup, and don't the leagues continue playing during the World Cup? If this is the case, couldn't the NHL consider doing the same thing. Agree to release any player to join the Olympic team or World Cup team (if they moved it to later in the year) but not shut the league down.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't soccer players released from their club teams to play in the World Cup, and don't the leagues continue playing during the World Cup? If this is the case, couldn't the NHL consider doing the same thing. Agree to release any player to join the Olympic team or World Cup team (if they moved it to later in the year) but not shut the league down.SOccer leagues are not up during the World Cup. What you said indeed happens for qualifiers though.

SOccer leagues are not up during the World Cup. What you said indeed happens for qualifiers though.

Thanks for the info. For what its worth if the NHL has an agreement to release their players to the Olympics, all teams should respect this. If a player is physically able to play, he should. The Olympic break should not be seen as an opportunity to rest. As someone mentioned, it is not very sportsmanlike.

Ah yes, the Russian team. Those above mentioned players, along with others, have declined to play for Russia because of the past coaches, executives, etc that still insisted on treating the players like foot soldiers (Soviet-style) instead of professionals. The Russio-Soviet old school of coaching has not gone over very well with Russian NHLers, especially the veterans, hence why you'll see high profile Russian born players not playing for team Russia. The same thing would happen in Canada if it was Mike Keenan times 10 for every international tournament.



Lol, Fedorov has known the coach since he was 10 years old and is good buddies with him, the coach said he told him that he is injured and dosent feel like he could help the team... and also said that Fedorov wouldnt lie to him. If any of you know anything about Krikunov: if he says Fedorov wanted to play, that means Fedorov wanted to play.

Samsonov is missing Boston's every second game it seems with some sort of injury ranging from a bruise to tingling sensations. He was left-off the roster anyways and prior to its announcement said he didnt expect to be invited and would not be upset as he could use that time to recover. He has had some friction with Krikunov before I think.

Mogilny is genuinely nursing knee pain as he had it opperated on, he is in the AHL anyways. It was supposed to be a "feel good" story of him playing for Russia for the first time since 1996, alas it didnt work out.

Malakhov retired from international competition officially on account of age after the 2002 Olympics. He is retired now as it is.

Zubov declined to play as always giving a past incident as grounds for such.



Now, "expert", how many players declined to play due to friction with the coach or the Russian Hockey Federation.... 1?

Yes NHL players are paying the players, but who is responsible for the development of that players. A lot of the responsibility is down to the national hockey federations.
Therefore the players have certain responsibilities towards their federations and the NHL also does given that they are taking these players.
For example if Germany with its NHL players play a good olympic tournament, the federation will make more money through sponsorships, merchandizing sales, which than will be reinvested in the sport at youth level.

Additionally more kids will aspire to become hockey players and start playing hockey. (One just needs to look at what Nowitzki has done to Basketball in Germany in terms of popularity). A Krupp and Schrempf were not as well known in Germany under the common public as they for various reasons barely played for the national side. Thus promote the sport and along the best league thus NHL in Germany. Sure that can not heart the NHL.

I am sure the Mavs and the Sharks (just need to look in this board to notize that Germans become interested in specific teams in the NHL because of certain German players) did not mind extra fans and merchandize sold in Germany, which surely came from the players playing for the national side. This does not only count for Germany but also other countries.

Maybe everything with the Olympics is not perfect, but it would really be a shame for the sport if the Olympics can not get incoporated into the NHL schedule, in order to take you also need to give.
Works in other sports as well.

If NHL certain NHL players do not wanna play for their country they should not be forced, but the ones who want to take part should be able to without getting acussed of selling out their NHL clubs.

The Olympics is high risk for alot of players. I can see why GM's wouldn't want their players participating merely to protect their investment. There is always the risk of injury and fatigue. After what happened to Tommy Salo is any GM gonna want their goalie to play?

The NHL teams pay salaries to make the players play in the NHL (and they are doing it), not to not play in other competition while the NHL is closed.

Just wondering, when Malakov hurt his knee with the Canadians, but went skiing anyways, was that fully within his right?

It's the morality and ethics of these employers
Wrong.

Professional sports does not have a (written) standard of morals and ethics. Doctors, lawyers and engineers do. Sports don't.

I would understand that they cant play.
And these guys are injured.

And since when was participation in these events manditory? It's almost like we're talking about conscription here. :help:

I blame the teams for not letting them heal while the NHL is in progress and making them miss the national games.
Right :shakehead

Tell me one business model by which an employer will give an employee time off, costing their business severly, just so they can pursue their own personal interests?

You'd be fired if you did.

Just wondering, when Malakov hurt his knee with the Canadians, but went skiing anyways, was that fully within his right?First, playing ice hockey in the Olympics is a potential part of a hockey player career, skiing is not.

Second, i think professional athletes' contracts has caveats that rule this issue..if a player gets injured while skiing he si probably going to miss some of his salary, according to his contract. If the contract says nothing about that, or if a player want to take the risk, he can ski within his right i guess.

Bottom line. If Malakov is injured and can't play for the Canadiens, he won't be able to go to ski either. If Malakov is fit enough to play for the Canadians, he is fit enough to play for his country at the Olympics.

Right :shakehead

Tell me one business model by which an employer will give an employee time off, costing their business severly, just so they can pursue their own personal interests?

You'd be fired if you did.

Well, here's one:

A business model where the employer's union has signed an official contract to allow it. You know, like the NHL did.

Well, here's one:

A business model where the employer's union has signed an official contract to allow it. You know, like the NHL did.
That seems to escape Phanuthier. I am 100 % against owner pressure but I have not seen any proof of it. It is also not possible to force people to play who have no interest in being there. I love the NHL but I am not so shortsighted as to believe that the Stanley Cup is the sports pinnacle. It is an international game that is moved forward by NHL participation in the Olympics and the NHL Owners and players union realizing it is for the greater good to put on a good show here. Most owners view players as pieces of meat anyway so I do not give a damn if a player gets hurt playing in the Olympics and it causes them trouble. If a player wants to play he should feel good about his participation and not worry about pressure from his club team. If Bettman finds out that the Owners are putting undue pressure on than they should be hit heavily in their wallets. I still do not believe that Kipper is ready to go through a wall to play for Finland much to the shagrin of some posters. If he wanted to be there he would. If Lehtonen really wanted to be there he would. They could not be stopped and are far too good to relent to pressure. They will still get big contracts from somebody somewhere. Its not like these are borderline goalies worrying about job security.

The fans of Team Finland probably brought the hostility upon themselves by whining about Kiprusoff being told not to play. (And yeah, everyone without blinders on can see what is going on no matter what some kids post on the internet.)

NHL has signed a contract to allow the players to play. Anything involving "but they pay" has zero validity as an argument. The contract is every bit as binding as the contract of employment that the players have signed.

Should key elements of team Canada be forced out - and just don't count the players on your favourite teams - the tone would be quite different. The value of Kiprusoff alone to a thin roster like the Finns would be able to send to the tournament under optimal conditions is huge. I don't know what would be comparable for our American friends. Maybe have some European sponsor force half their basketball team to not participate in the Summer O's. I bet that would piss them off even if they still would be guaranteed winners.

I am not at all surprised to find the Finns appalled by some GM's as well as the management of their own National team. I don't think the players can be blamed as much. I know I don't place much blame on them. What can they do, really? Become the most well known trouble makers since Brett Hull with a single statement? Laying it all in the open by saying that contrary to the signed contract by the NHL their team told them to decline and blame it on injuries? I think not.

But it's only Finland, who cares right? And if the Finns do - so f***ing what? Finland is the other country in the World besides Canada that actually has hockey as a religion but screw them.

It's great to see the hockey fans pull together. Selfish ignorant ****** that we are. Go Flames and go Thrashers and especially Go the handful of Flames fans. You make us proud.

The fans of Team Finland probably brought the hostility upon themselves by whining about Kiprusoff being told not to play. (And yeah, everyone without blinders on can see what is going on no matter what some kids post on the internet.)

NHL has signed a contract to allow the players to play. Anything involving "but they pay" has zero validity as an argument. The contract is every bit as binding as the contract of employment that the players have signed.

Should key elements of team Canada be forced out - and just don't count the players on your favourite teams - the tone would be quite different. The value of Kiprusoff alone to a thin roster like the Finns would be able to send to the tournament under optimal conditions is huge. I don't know what would be comparable for our American friends. Maybe have some European sponsor force half their basketball team to not participate in the Summer O's. I bet that would piss them off even if they still would be guaranteed winners.

I am not at all surprised to find the Finns appalled by some GM's as well as the management of their own National team. I don't think the players can be blamed as much. I know I don't place much blame on them. What can they do, really? Become the most well known trouble makers since Brett Hull with a single statement? Laying it all in the open by saying that contrary to the signed contract by the NHL their team told them to decline and blame it on injuries? I think not.

But it's only Finland, who cares right? And if the Finns do - so f***ing what? Finland is the other country in the World besides Canada that actually has hockey as a religion but screw them.

It's great to see the hockey fans pull together. Selfish ignorant ****** that we are. Go Flames and go Thrashers and especially Go the handful of Flames fans. You make us proud.
So are you saying Lehtonen and Kipper have no injury issues? Lehtonen of the twice pulled groin and poor conditioning. Kipper of the poor hip that he is taking who knows what to keep the inflamation down. i fully agree about the poor attitudes of some NHL fans , it pisses me off that they can be so shortsighted. Tell me this though. Are Atlanta standing in Kovalchuk's way? Havelid? Hossa? Bondra?( even with his injury issues.) What about Calgary? Are they holding Leopold back? I will not mention the Canadians Calgary have because this is a thread about screwing Finns and only Finns after all.

I will not mention the Canadians Calgary have because this is a thread about screwing Finns and only Finns after all.BTW, you can add Kapanen to your Finnish conspiracy theory i guess..

BTW, you can add Kapanen to your Finnish conspiracy theory i guess..
May as well. Never mind he has spent as much time injured as he has playing so perhaps he may not be 100%. So Phili will say no to Kapanen and yes to Forsberg, Handzus and Knuble, Esche and Nittymaki. Again Bobby Clarke just wants to screw some Finns - not all because Nittymaki can play but certainly lets screw Kapanen.

So are you saying Lehtonen and Kipper have no injury issues? Lehtonen of the twice pulled groin and poor conditioning. Kipper of the poor hip that he is taking who knows what to keep the inflamation down. i fully agree about the poor attitudes of some NHL fans , it pisses me off that they can be so shortsighted. Tell me this though. Are Atlanta standing in Kovalchuk's way? Havelid? Hossa? Bondra?( even with his injury issues.) What about Calgary? Are they holding Leopold back? I will not mention the Canadians Calgary have because this is a thread about screwing Finns and only Finns after all.
Yeah, Kippers injury is so profound that he's played more games than any goalie in the NHL.
Kipper/Sutter/Flames = no class
Niedermeyer/Burke/Ducks = class

Yeah, Kippers injury is so profound that he's played more games than any goalie in the NHL.
Kipper/Sutter/Flames = no class
Niedermeyer/Burke/Ducks = class
I am missing the Ducks point you are making. If Kipper wanted to/was able to play in the Olympics he could. He has declined to play for the National team before so it does not exactly mean everything to him.

I am missing the Ducks point you are making. If Kipper wanted to/was able to play in the Olympics he could. He has declined to play for the National team before so it does not exactly mean everything to him.
Niedermeyer is hurt & needs athoscopic surgery. However , he really doesnt want to right now because he really wants to play in the Olys. Burke is supportive of whatever Niedermeyer ultimately decides.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=152562&hubname=nhl

The fans of Team Finland probably brought the hostility upon themselves by whining about Kiprusoff being told not to play. (And yeah, everyone without blinders on can see what is going on no matter what some kids post on the internet.)

NHL has signed a contract to allow the players to play. Anything involving "but they pay" has zero validity as an argument. The contract is every bit as binding as the contract of employment that the players have signed.

Should key elements of team Canada be forced out - and just don't count the players on your favourite teams - the tone would be quite different. The value of Kiprusoff alone to a thin roster like the Finns would be able to send to the tournament under optimal conditions is huge. I don't know what would be comparable for our American friends. Maybe have some European sponsor force half their basketball team to not participate in the Summer O's. I bet that would piss them off even if they still would be guaranteed winners.

I am not at all surprised to find the Finns appalled by some GM's as well as the management of their own National team. I don't think the players can be blamed as much. I know I don't place much blame on them. What can they do, really? Become the most well known trouble makers since Brett Hull with a single statement? Laying it all in the open by saying that contrary to the signed contract by the NHL their team told them to decline and blame it on injuries? I think not.

But it's only Finland, who cares right? And if the Finns do - so f***ing what? Finland is the other country in the World besides Canada that actually has hockey as a religion but screw them.

It's great to see the hockey fans pull together. Selfish ignorant ****** that we are. Go Flames and go Thrashers and especially Go the handful of Flames fans. You make us proud.


:clap:

I agree with every word.

Niedermeyer is hurt & needs athoscopic surgery. However , he really doesnt want to right now because he really wants to play in the Olys. Burke is supportive of whatever Niedermeyer ultimately decides.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=152562&hubname=nhl
Ok. Good of the Ducks and good for Niedermayer. The flames situation seems to have some blame for all. A conspiracy to kill Finland's chances just does not fly with me.

Ok. Good of the Ducks and good for Niedermayer. The flames situation seems to have some blame for all. A conspiracy to kill Finland's chances just does not fly with me.And who is saying it's a conspiracy to kill Finland's chances? It's just about the eventuality of NHL teams discouraging some suffering players from joining their national team; not to kill Finland's chances, but for the NHL team's interests.. (the fact then the deprived national teams is Finalnd and not Canada or USA maybe doesn't hurt though?)

So are you saying Lehtonen and Kipper have no injury issues? Lehtonen of the twice pulled groin and poor conditioning. Kipper of the poor hip that he is taking who knows what to keep the inflamation down. i fully agree about the poor attitudes of some NHL fans , it pisses me off that they can be so shortsighted. Tell me this though. Are Atlanta standing in Kovalchuk's way? Havelid? Hossa? Bondra?( even with his injury issues.) What about Calgary? Are they holding Leopold back? I will not mention the Canadians Calgary have because this is a thread about screwing Finns and only Finns after all.
No, I think they do have injuries. Are you in turn telling me that all players in the Olys will be 100% healthy? Turn on the TV and see that Kiprusoff is quite able to play. For further proof see the number of his starts this season so far and how many of those have been since he was declared "injured" and how many more are there to come before and after Olys. It's just a blatant excuse and such a clear case. He is playing more than any other goalie in the league for crying out loud. So sure I do think he has injury and yeah - I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't play in the O's if the Flames had not told him not to play.

Kipper is the Flames most important player as far as the standings go. I think Iggy is likely more important in the big picture including marketing etc - but strictly on the standings I believe Kiprusoff may be the MVP in the whole of the NHL in my opinion.

And no I don't think it is a conspiracy either. I don't think the Flames or Thrashers management really give a damn about Finland and neither am I expecting them to. What I think is going on is more of a situation where they have thought that telling the players to skip Team Finland has no real downsides apart from probably pissing the players off a bit.

Because it is Team Finland. Finland is on the other side of the Globe and the few thousands of Finnish fans that actually contribute to the bottomline of NHL franchises by buying fan gear and subscribing to the ppv etc are insignificant. Instead of conspiracy I just think that a couple of GM's figured "it's only Team Finland". What they forgot is it's also a sport. Finland was pretty great in the World Cup and I think this all has been a damn shame.

What really pisses me off about this too are some of the fans that turn a blind eye to this and woohoo about Kiprusoff being so injured that he has played more than any goaltender in the league and continues to do so. Canada is the home and birthplace of the sport, but Finland is the only - and let me repeat this for the effect - the only other country on this planet that has the passion about hockey comparable to Canada. Everywhere else hockey is second tier sport usually to soccer. They had a great run at the World Cup and played some great hockey there. And these are the guys getting screwed over and not only that some Flames fans are cheering for them getting screwed over.

That is not ******* on. That is the bottomline that I am saying. As fans of the sport we should be backing the Finns up instead of this blatant making of excuses. Sure, I can see where the Flames fans are coming. They do have a chance to go for the Cup later on. But really I think everyone should take a step back and think about what is hockey? It's a minor sport and we the fans of hockey are a pretty rare breed. This haa haa haa from other fans is not on. Any player could be injured in the tournament or in the next scheduled game in the NHL. Such things happen. From the seven nations with a more or less realistic chance of winning the Olympics Kiprusoff is the single player with the most effect on the chances of his team to be able to compete. Finns seem to have great heart and really come out hard and overachieve in these tournaments time after time but really - they have about one line of forwards, some great grinders, decent defensive unit and a great goalkeeper. Uups. Scratch that.

No, I think they do have injuries. Are you in turn telling me that all players in the Olys will be 100% healthy? Turn on the TV and see that Kiprusoff is quite able to play. For further proof see the number of his starts this season so far and how many of those have been since he was declared "injured" and how many more are there to come before and after Olys. It's just a blatant excuse and such a clear case. He is playing more than any other goalie in the league for crying out loud. So sure I do think he has injury and yeah - I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't play in the O's if the Flames had not told him not to play.

Kipper is the Flames most important player as far as the standings go. I think Iggy is likely more important in the big picture including marketing etc - but strictly on the standings I believe Kiprusoff may be the MVP in the whole of the NHL in my opinion.

And no I don't think it is a conspiracy either. I don't think the Flames or Thrashers management really give a damn about Finland and neither am I expecting them to. What I think is going on is more of a situation where they have thought that telling the players to skip Team Finland has no real downsides apart from probably pissing the players off a bit.

Because it is Team Finland. Finland is on the other side of the Globe and the few thousands of Finnish fans that actually contribute to the bottomline of NHL franchises by buying fan gear and subscribing to the ppv etc are insignificant. Instead of conspiracy I just think that a couple of GM's figured "it's only Team Finland". What they forgot is it's also a sport. Finland was pretty great in the World Cup and I think this all has been a damn shame.

What really pisses me off about this too are some of the fans that turn a blind eye to this and woohoo about Kiprusoff being so injured that he has played more than any goaltender in the league and continues to do so. Canada is the home and birthplace of the sport, but Finland is the only - and let me repeat this for the effect - the only other country on this planet that has the passion about hockey comparable to Canada. Everywhere else hockey is second tier sport usually to soccer. They had a great run at the World Cup and played some great hockey there. And these are the guys getting screwed over and not only that some Flames fans are cheering for them getting screwed over.

That is not ******* on. That is the bottomline that I am saying. As fans of the sport we should be backing the Finns up instead of this blatant making of excuses. Sure, I can see where the Flames fans are coming. They do have a chance to go for the Cup later on. But really I think everyone should take a step back and think about what is hockey? It's a minor sport and we the fans of hockey are a pretty rare breed. This haa haa haa from other fans is not on. Any player could be injured in the tournament or in the next scheduled game in the NHL. Such things happen. From the seven nations with a more or less realistic chance of winning the Olympics Kiprusoff is the single player with the most effect on the chances of his team to be able to compete. Finns seem to have great heart and really come out hard and overachieve in these tournaments time after time but really - they have about one line of forwards, some great grinders, decent defensive unit and a great goalkeeper. Uups. Scratch that.
I can see you are pained and I perhaps even feel for you some. I will not however waiver from the fact that if Kipper wanted to play he could. There is nobody on earth that can keep him from playing. As you say he may be the NHL MVP so pissing him off seems somewhat shortsighted by the Flames don't you think? They can suggest, cajole, even threaten to break his kneecaps but Kipper is free to play for his country, finish the season, finish his contract and then head elsewhere for big money. The Flames management do not have as much influence as you seem to believe.

I'll tell you, if Forsberg decides to play in the olympics as injury prone as he's been, I'll never respect the guy again. He's being paid by an organization to play and give his team everything he's got, not to prance around at the olympics (probably not get a medal... bronze at best) and possibly get injured and hurt his team.

So, only NHL'ers from Canada, Russia and Czech Republic should go to the Olympics?

The only teams that should discourages some of his canadians players to go are the Leafs for McCabe, better for the interests of the both the team and the national team, as a canadian squad is obviously better with about 10 other D-Mens than McCabe.

Plus, the Leafs being a canadian team, it gives 2 reasons to cheer to their fans!

First, playing ice hockey in the Olympics is a potential part of a hockey player career, skiing is not.

But if you are still following personal interests that can harm your hockey career, should you follow it?


Second, i think professional athletes' contracts has caveats that rule this issue..

Huh? This was not an annoucement from the Calgary Flames or Atlanta Thrashers. This was an annoucement from Mikka Kiprusoff and Kari Lehtonen, who were making decisions based upon their careers and career objectives. They are paid by their employee's to do a task, and have a head on their shoulders to know they must perform to the best of their abilities for the job they are paid to do.

Well, here's one:

A business model where the employer's union has signed an official contract to allow it. You know, like the NHL did.
The NHL signed an agreement saying that they should put Olympic interests above their own?

maybe the players just feel some responsibility to their NHL clubs and are choosing to sit out...

I love the NHL but I am not so shortsighted as to believe that the Stanley Cup is the sports pinnacle. It is an international game that is moved forward by NHL participation in the Olympics and the NHL Owners and players union realizing it is for the greater good to put on a good show here.
Right. The NHL had no intentions of trying to market their league at all. They were trying to do it for the greater good. :propeller

If a player wants to play he should feel good about his participation and not worry about pressure from his club team.
An employeer has an interest in their how their business is run, and the security of their prime assets?

Get out, really?

If Bettman finds out that the Owners are putting undue pressure on than they should be hit heavily in their wallets.
Stupidest thing I have ever read.

Bettman is paid by the owners, and the decision to go to the Olympics was, by large, a decision made by the owners. This was a decision to market the league, a decision made by the league and its shareholders in NHL franchineses. Now Bettman should fine the people writing his cheques and making the decisions?

Rediculous

They will still get big contracts from somebody somewhere. Its not like these are borderline goalies worrying about job security.
Right. Tell that to the hundreads of No 1 goalies who can lose their job with just the slightest slip. It's a competitive market in the NHL, and there is no such thing as job security.

No, I think they do have injuries. Are you in turn telling me that all players in the Olys will be 100% healthy? Turn on the TV and see that Kiprusoff is quite able to play. For further proof see the number of his starts this season so far and how many of those have been since he was declared "injured" and how many more are there to come before and after Olys. It's just a blatant excuse and such a clear case. He is playing more than any other goalie in the league for crying out loud. So sure I do think he has injury and yeah - I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't play in the O's if the Flames had not told him not to play.

Did you not read the annoucement?

Kiprusoff's hip injury is one of which you can play through, but will not heal unless you rest it. And the Flames can't afford to sit Kiprusoff for 4 weeks and miss the playoffs. They told Kiprusoff that, and that he wouldn't have time to rest, so Kiprusoff decided to skip the Olympics and use that time to rest.

Huh? This was not an annoucement from the Calgary Flames or Atlanta Thrashers. This was an annoucement from Mikka Kiprusoff and Kari Lehtonen, who were making decisions based upon their careers and career objectives. :lol: :biglaugh:

btw, in case you didn't understand, the issue i was talking about was the eventuality (you brought up) of a player going out skiing while/getting injured. Don't know how your reply is related..

no way a boycott.

The NHL signed an agreement saying that they should put Olympic interests above their own?

Let me quote you again:

Tell me one business model by which an employer will give an employee time off, costing their business severly, just so they can pursue their own personal interests?

The owners *have* agreed to give the players time off...

...which *will* hurt their business in the short run.

And the players *are* pursuing their own personal interests in the Olympics.

Now I admit I sort of missed that "just so" part which I assume refers to the reasons behind signing that contrat. However, they are pretty much irrelevant here. It's obvious that this is a long term investment for the NHL, but what matters is that the NHL has signed the contract and the owners will have to comply with it.

It's OK if the owners have "an interest in how their business is run, and the security of their prime assets". But if they want to violate a contact they'd better look in the mirror. They simply should have had that interest while signing those contracts in the first place.

Right. The NHL had no intentions of trying to market their league at all. They were trying to do it for the greater good. :propeller


An employeer has an interest in their how their business is run, and the security of their prime assets?

Get out, really?


Stupidest thing I have ever read.

Bettman is paid by the owners, and the decision to go to the Olympics was, by large, a decision made by the owners. This was a decision to market the league, a decision made by the league and its shareholders in NHL franchineses. Now Bettman should fine the people writing his cheques and making the decisions?

Rediculous


Right. Tell that to the hundreads of No 1 goalies who can lose their job with just the slightest slip. It's a competitive market in the NHL, and there is no such thing as job security.
By the greater good I mean showcasing the NHL as well as the game of hockey. That is of course beyond you.
These owners did sign this agreement as Sampe said knowing full well they would have to comply. Bettman and those under him while working for the owners also have to work independantly to do a proper job. If one owner is out of line by pressuring a player while 29 others are not then you could expect they would want something done about it. They all do not think like you and actually are standing by the contract they signed. A rogue owner or three have to be clipped. Colin Campbell is also paid by the NHL and has to make decisions against their 'assets" as per the collective agreement.
When Ted Leonisis attacked a fan , in other words something he was not supposed to do- he had to pay a fine. The nerve of those people he hired fining him. That just shouldn't be.

:lol: :biglaugh:

btw, in case you didn't understand, the issue i was talking about was the eventuality (you brought up) of a player going out skiing while/getting injured. Don't know how your reply is related..
Heck, I had no idea what caveat your talking about when a player withdraws from the Olympics. :loony:

The owners *have* agreed to give the players time off...

...which *will* hurt their business in the short run.

No they haven't. They are still playign a pre-season, 82 regular season games, and playoffs, arn't they?


It's obvious that this is a long term investment for the NHL, but what matters is that the NHL has signed the contract and the owners will have to comply with it.

True, but that long term inverstment is not at the cost of short term considerations.

Will a company invest in a new product knowing they'll go bankrupt, for the sake of that product being successful in the future?


But if they want to violate a contact they'd better look in the mirror.
What was violated?

When Ted Leonisis attacked a fan , in other words something he was not supposed to do- he had to pay a fine. The nerve of those people he hired fining him. That just shouldn't be.
It seems to me that the realm of business is totally beyond you. The NHL business has a board of directors to which they control the league - one does not have power. Leonisis was out of line to attack a fan, and was fined. Could he take it to the Board of Directors meeting? Sure, but there's a good chance he's lose. Now if Don Waddell and Darryl Sutter were fined for the rediculous reason of suggesting a player to rest their injury during a break for the better of their NHL franchise, more then a few of the Board of Directors would likly look into the matter.

This "greater good" of having the Olympics does not hurt their franchise or business. The agreement was to allow NHL players to participate in the Olympics, and they are. The topic at hand, which you have totally missed, is whether or not NHL teams should be allowed to make recommendations to a player, such as Kiprusoff and Lehtonen. These players were not forced to withdraw, it was with their own decision - and the argument is whether or not teams are allowed to "pressue" a player into going or not. Tell me one instance in which a player has been told by their NHL team that they can't participate in the Olympics? In Kiprusoff's case, Kiprusoff was not told he can't go, but rather was told that he would not be given rest to heal his injury, so he choose to withdraw. The violates none of the terms . So you have no case.

It seems to me that the realm of business is totally beyond you. The NHL business has a board of directors to which they control the league - one does not have power. Leonisis was out of line to attack a fan, and was fined. Could he take it to the Board of Directors meeting? Sure, but there's a good chance he's lose. Now if Don Waddell and Darryl Sutter were fined for the rediculous reason of suggesting a player to rest their injury during a break for the better of their NHL franchise, more then a few of the Board of Directors would likly look into the matter.

This "greater good" of having the Olympics does not hurt their franchise or business. The agreement was to allow NHL players to participate in the Olympics, and they are. The topic at hand, which you have totally missed, is whether or not NHL teams should be allowed to make recommendations to a player, such as Kiprusoff and Lehtonen. These players were not forced to withdraw, it was with their own decision - and the argument is whether or not teams are allowed to "pressue" a player into going or not. Tell me one instance in which a player has been told by their NHL team that they can't participate in the Olympics? In Kiprusoff's case, Kiprusoff was not told he can't go, but rather was told that he would not be given rest to heal his injury, so he choose to withdraw. The violates none of the terms . So you have no case.
Phanuthier, I am with you on it being their own decision, I am more battling against whatever pressure is being exerted on them.I still think the bottom line is Kipper could have gone should he chose to do so. Lehtonen is just a common sense decision not to go. He's had major groin troubles.

No they haven't. They are still playign a pre-season, 82 regular season games, and playoffs, arn't they?

Oh, I thought we were discussing the time during the Olympics. My bad.

True, but that long term inverstment is not at the cost of short term considerations.

Will a company invest in a new product knowing they'll go bankrupt, for the sake of that product being successful in the future?

No, but see my other comments.

What was violated?

I was speaking hypothetically to mostly debate against the argument that NHL teams have any right to *force* their players to withdraw.

But I also hate the idea of manipulating your employees. There is quite a difference between an honest, well reasoned suggestion and a calculated threat made to look like one.

Case Kiprusoff: was the actual contract concerning Olympics violated? Can't be sure since I wasn't there, but probably not. However, there's also the general contract between the employees and the employers. Does an NHL team have a right to flat out deny an injured player the chance to heal his injuries if he so prefers? And if so, what purpose would that serve? Certainly no long term one and in this particular case even a short term (this season) gain was questionable concidering the fact that the NHL playoffs were not exactly a week away when the injury was diagnosed.

It's impossible to say what *really* happened between Kiprusoff and the Flames. But the way I see it, either Kiprusoff clearly chose the Flames over the Olympics or the Flames were using his injury as an excuse to pressure him while Kiprusoff was being a typical, overly loyal Finn.

One more thing though:

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't soccer players released from their club teams to play in the World Cup, and don't the leagues continue playing during the World Cup? If this is the case, couldn't the NHL consider doing the same thing. Agree to release any player to join the Olympic team or World Cup team (if they moved it to later in the year) but not shut the league down.

While the true problems lie deeper, fixing the schedule would have the quickest impact on participation in the Olympics. And I'm starting to like the idea above more every minute. No need for cutting the amount of NHL games, no one has to play extra games, no one gets an unfair advantage of resting while others play, less reasons for owners to pressure their players etc. If only the owners would realize the long term possibilities behind this... :thumbu:

It's impossible to say what *really* happened between Kiprusoff and the Flames. But the way I see it, either Kiprusoff clearly chose the Flames over the Olympics or the Flames were using his injury as an excuse to pressure him while Kiprusoff was being a typical, overly loyal Finn.

I think the two most obvious ones are

1) As said in the media, Kiprusoff would not be given time to rest his injury during the season. If he wanted to rest, it would have been the Olympic break.

2) Kiprusoff medication that he needs to play (pain killers) are a banned substance, and he didn't want to hurt Team Finland by testing positive for a banned substance.

The Olympics should be played without NHLers since it's not a best-on-best tournament after all. Some people supposed it was going to be even better than the World Cup. It's not even close to it.

The Olympics should be played without NHLers since it's not a best-on-best tournament after all. Some people supposed it was going to be even better than the World Cup. It's not even close to it.Yeah, not even close..I guess it's a matter of opinion. In '98 and '02 it was better than the '04 World Cup imo, and i guess one key reason is it's more important than the World Cup. Players (not only people) care more about winning the Olympics than the World Cup, especially for European players and federations it's not even close. The effort by federations it's much stronger for the Olympics and the anticipation for the event way higher for everyone (fans, media AND players), providing more adrenaline..

oh, and the way the World Cup tourney is organized makes it abundantly unfair..

The Olympics should be played without NHLers since it's not a best-on-best tournament after all.

In that case, the Olympics should be held without male hockey players period. The gold medal from men's hockey would represent nothing - not even an amateur title since all the best non-NHLers are professionals.

Case in point: Olympic soccer. You've got a bunch of U23 players plus a few overaged reinforcements. Who cares about the results?

hockey fans are in for one heck of a gift in a couple weeks – especially the final 5 days – Feb 22 to 26th – is going to be some of the best hockey ever played on the planet. there’s not one, but four, dream-teams – Canada, the Russians, the Czechs and the Swedes. plus 3 or 4 “Belarus’s” primed for the upsets. I highly recommend suspending all other activities at that time. :)

the players Want to play for their country in the Olympics – or so they all say in every interview.

the owners Want their players to play in the Olympics – or so they said in the boardroom when they wanted the Olympic participation as part of the new CBA.

from the owners point of view, it’s called product-placement. the world, but specifically for the NHL’s interests, North America will be transfixed by the Olympics for 3 weeks, including 24-7 coverage on one of the three big networks. by showcasing the artistry of the game, the business side (owners) predict it will bring in more revenue because more people will get turned on to the sport. (plus, they still get All their regular home games in the 82-game season) it gives the fans a free buzz, and hopefully they’ll come back for more.

I’m sure most of us here feel hockey’s the most exciting sport – but its TV audiences are lower than NASCAR, bowling or golf (and probably poker, judging by recent programming). but the owners, and probably most hockey fans, feel the game is more exciting than bowling. but nobody else gets it. hence the NHL revenues being so low, and there being a lock-out last year.

how do u fix it? have a ton of people see the best players on the planet playing their hearts out for their country. have toe-dipping sports fans see these all-star bands of players jamming together at a one-time-only gig. (each Olympic’s line-ups are SO unique) it’s by far the biggest chance for hockey to have any kind of a break-through this year. more people will watch the Olympics than any 7-game final you can conjure up.

every season the league takes a break for a flakey little all-star game to try to generate interest. the Olympics are a 12 day all-star game with players actually trying to win. they never made a major movie about any Stanley Cup victory called “Miracle on Ice” or anything else. and there was a nice red mile in Calgary in 2004 – but it was 3,000 miles long in 2002.

from the player’s point of view, every comment I’ve ever read by an NHLer who played in the Olympics said it was the greatest or proudest moment of their lives (except maybe the ’98 Americans :sarcasm: ) and they all come back better hockey players than they left because they had an intensive 2-week seminar with the 20 other best players their country has birthed.

over 60 NHL players are coming home with medals – so about 2 guys on every team are just gonna be skating on air after this.

this is a win win win win situation – for the players, the owners, the fans, and the game.

hockey fans are in for one heck of a gift in a couple weeks – especially the final 5 days – Feb 22 to 26th – is going to be some of the best hockey ever played on the planet. there’s not one, but four, dream-teams – Canada, the Russians, the Czechs and the Swedes. plus 3 or 4 “Belarus’s” primed for the upsets. I highly recommend suspending all other activities at that time. :) Nice post! Only, i don't get that bolded part.. USA , Finland and Slovakia look to me more as legitimate contender than Belarus kind of potential upsetters!

cheers!
"Belarus" you might say is an Olympic buzz-word or code word for a lower team that upsets a favored team. certainly the most famous upset in recent olympics was Belarus over Sweden in the quarter-final elimination game in 2002.

you got yer big four (Canada, Russia, Czechs, Swedes)
if any of these 4 are not in the 2 medal games, there's been an upset.
most likely caused by your second tier: Finland, Slovakia, USA.

but of course to be a true "Belarus" you should probably be even lower ranked, this year, say, a Germany, Kazakstan or another team i don't want to mention cuz i just want it to happen. :sarcasm:

Belarus beating sweden was a freak accident that can happen once in 20 years. Finland, USA, Slovakia winning these other 4 is nothing miraculous and has happened often. USA has been in the finals twice in last 10 years (in the "super tournaments") and Finland has been in the finals once, and won bronze in nagano. Slovakia has not been impressive in these tournaments but they have been doing good in the world championships though.

Any of these 7...well at least any of these 6 can win the tournament. Belarus? No, maybe a single game against one of these teams every 10-20 years but not a tournament. Even germany is much more likely than Belarus.

Comparing Finland and USA to what Belarus did is seriously undermining these two teams that have been succesfull in the super tournaments. In the last olympics, Finland lost 3-2 to Canada (olympic gold winner) in quarterfinals. In Nagano they beat Canada in the bronze game, dropped sweden out of the games in quarters. In world cup Finland lost the final to canada. Underdogs yeah...because of the roster only. Not based on success and level of play.

comparing olympics is difficult because so much changes in four years.

the only relevance this time, imho, is that the swedes are going to be inspired by their embarasment last time. if you're a canadian, imagine if your heros got eliminated in the very first game by a country know one's ever heard of? their whole country is about ready to (figuratively) hang these guys if they don't kick some serious butt this time (like, at least some medal for starters).

of course Finland and the US are better than Belarus, but actually in this year's olympics, i just think the Fins without Kipper and the Yanks without a Richter are gonna fall short.

it all comes down to the hot goalie anyway.

and it's so funny reading the insights into Belarus's prospects. (psst, they're not in the Olympic ice hockey competition this year)

you got yer big four (Canada, Russia, Czechs, Swedes)
if any of these 4 are not in the 2 medal games, there's been an upset.
most likely caused by your second tier: Finland, Slovakia, USA.


No, com'on... it's not an "upset" if Rus-Cze-Swe miss the semi-finals by getting beaten by any of Fin-Svk-USA in a quarter final! For Canada it would be an upset, but the difference ain't that big between the rest of your "first tier teams" compared to the "second tier". The difference gets relatively bigger if we talk about chances of winning the whole tournament, but in one game any of the top 7 teams can win.

(like helicecopter I loved your first post :clap: , but was surprised to see the word Belarus anywhere near the top 7, haha).

i hope i cleared it up that it was just a phrase, not a specific country.

i used to consider there to be a top 7. but upon further inquiry i've concluded there is a seperation btwn the 4 and the 3. i used to include Finland, but not without Kipper, and now without Lechtonen.

i really think those top 4 are in a another league from the rest, each for different reasons (Czechs for goaltending, Russians for offense, Swedes for pride, Canada combo of all)

of course anything can happen when it's a one-game elimination tournament.

that's part of why it's so nail-bitingly wild!

i hope i cleared it up that it was just a phrase, not a specific country.

i used to consider there to be a top 7. but upon further inquiry i've concluded there is a seperation btwn the 4 and the 3. i used to include Finland, but not without Kipper, and now without Lechtonen.

i really think those top 4 are in a another league from the rest, each for different reasons (Czechs for goaltending, Russians for offense, Swedes for pride, Canada combo of all)

of course anything can happen when it's a one-game elimination tournament.

that's part of why it's so nail-bitingly wild!


I could agree with you if sweden had performed even close to finlands or USA's level in the last 10 years of super tournaments.

You are reading too much into rosters and forgetting the actual tournaments where these teams have played eachother.

you're totally right about reading too much into rosters. teams can look great on paper and not make the final four, and teams full of unknown non-NHLers often surprise and make the climactic quartette.

i said before it's all about the 'tending -- but it's also about gell, and that's the intangible nobody knows (including the players & coaches) until it happens or doesn't.

oh, and for Sweden -- King Henri! imho, this guy's So for-real, and with kipper out he's probably the 2nd best goalie in The Games. combine that with Alfredsson, the Sedin brothers, and Hetterberg all having prime-of-their-life seasons, then add Forsberg & Mats playing for their only chance to avenge a national embarasment, add in the rock, Nick "Norris" Lindstrom walling the D, and the new secret weapon in net -- they're absolutely for real.

just as you can't tell the final from a roster, so too can you not call tomorrow from yesterday.

de-rank the Swedes if you want, but if the two best goalies lead their teams, it'll be a Czech-Swede final.

Did you not read the annoucement?

I read the announcement. Did you read the one saying Kiprusoff had agreed to evaluate his condition closer to Olympics and decide if he would play - 12 hours before Team Finland was announced and a day before he made the announcement? One could assume that something had changed during that period. Now what could that be?

Before you start evaluating my ability to grasp the business side of the decisions without knowing a thing about me. May I point out that I actually do understand it and I have got my living from such things for nearly 30 years.

What I said in my earlier posts stands. Hockey and the fans are loosing in all this.

I read the announcement. Did you read the one saying Kiprusoff had agreed to evaluate his condition closer to Olympics and decide if he would play - 12 hours before Team Finland was announced and a day before he made the announcement? One could assume that something had changed during that period. Now what could that be?

Before you start evaluating my ability to grasp the business side of the decisions without knowing a thing about me. May I point out that I actually do understand it and I have got my living from such things for nearly 30 years.

What I said in my earlier posts stands. Hockey and the fans are loosing in all this.
It is all pretty Murky.

I read the announcement.
Then you agree that he isn't faking an injury, which you suggest in that post. :loony:

Your business sense seems to be completely lacking if you can't understand the fact that priorities of Kiprusoff and the Flames for playing him. You don't put another business's priorities over yourself. That's just stupid.

Then you agree that he isn't faking an injury, which you suggest in that post. :loony:

Your business sense seems to be completely lacking if you can't understand the fact that priorities of Kiprusoff and the Flames for playing him. You don't put another business's priorities over yourself. That's just stupid.

how can a business priority be risking further injury by playing him?

That's just stupid.

how can a business priority be risking further injury by playing him?
Who said there's risk of furthur injury?

The problem is, we just had a World Cup of hockey tournament 1.5 years ago. If you have a best on best tournament every two years, it loses its lustre and players are not willing to do it.

Having both the World Cup and Olympic Tournament cheapens both. Eliminate one of them and you will see more players willing to participate. It will be something special, like the World Cup of soccer, if we have a best on best once every four years.

Too many tournaments breeds apathy. Remember how many players opted out of the World Championships last year when there was no NHL hockey?


I strongly disagree with you on this. Having best on best tournament every two years would not cheapen anything. And you take soccer as an example which tells me that you don't know much about soccer. There is also a European championship every 4 years (2 before/after World cup) that is just as strong as World cup. Only minus Brazil and Argentina. Soccer fans can't wait for the next big tournament! There is also a Champions league (the best club competition in the world) going every year throughout the season and yet, people are crying when there's a winter break for two months because they just can't wait for the next Chelsea-Barcelona matchup...

And if you want to eliminate one of them that should be the World cup. Olympics are so much more...

i know it may Seem like there's a lot (or too many) int'l toruneys, but before '04 there hadn't been a World (Canada) Cup in 8 years (since 1996), so that's not too frequently.

and there's only been 2 all-athlete (pro) Olympics in the history of the sport ('98 and '02), so this is only the 3rd one EVER coming up.

i don't think 3 in all of history is too much. or once every 8 years for a World (Canada) Cup.

plus, there's TONS of differences btwn the two tourneys -- the bigger, open int'l rinks vs. the smaller NHL ones; it's a best-of-3 games final in the World/Canada Cup (usually) vs. the one game winner-take-all Olympics; plus there's all the different rules in each, including fighting, icing, the trapazoid, stick curves, etc.

plus, as we're noticing and discsussing in this thread -- there's injuries preventing top athletes from competing in each toruney. just 2 years ago, Mario Lemieux captained Team Canada to victory over a Kiprusoff-led Team Finland in the final. a short 2 years later and neither leader is playing.

1998 and 2002 were two of the highlights in the history of hockey. i look forward to a hat trick in a fortnight.

Those of you who claim that sending players to the Olympics is a poor business decision aren't giving teams or the league much credit. There are any number of business tools that would have been used to come to a decision. Certainly, somewhere along the line an actual "risk assessment" would have been prepared and thoroughly examined by a team of lawyers. As with any business decision, the league surely put time and effort into deciding that participation in the Olympics was a "good" business decision. A bunch of people didn't just brainstorm: studies were done, reports were written, somebody probably even made a Powerpoint presentation!

Then you agree that he isn't faking an injury, which you suggest in that post. :loony:
No. Where did I say anything about faking an injury or about not faking one? Putting words into my mouth won't get you far even on the internet.

If they see more $ as more important than heart :) just leave them be. Then they'd not be wanted on the national team.

Those of you who claim that sending players to the Olympics is a poor business decision aren't giving teams or the league much credit. There are any number of business tools that would have been used to come to a decision. Certainly, somewhere along the line an actual "risk assessment" would have been prepared and thoroughly examined by a team of lawyers. As with any business decision, the league surely put time and effort into deciding that participation in the Olympics was a "good" business decision. A bunch of people didn't just brainstorm: studies were done, reports were written, somebody probably even made a Powerpoint presentation!
OTOH Gary Bettman could have just consulted his Ouija board. That seems to be the extent of the NHL's marketing planning under bettman in the past.

Who said there's risk of furthur injury?

It is implied. Naturally if you're injured and don't treat it you risk aggravating it and worsening the situation.
Which is why the Flames don't want him to go, so that injury can be treated instead of it getting worsened.. hence by playing him now, they risk causing further injury to him.

Won't the Flames look like a fool if they continue to play him and he aggraves it in the next game and misses x period of time.. ?

quite simple really. Any kind of injury + playing player = implied risk of further injury.

It is implied. Naturally if you're injured and don't treat it you risk aggravating it and worsening the situation.
Which is why the Flames don't want him to go, so that injury can be treated instead of it getting worsened.. hence by playing him now, they risk causing further injury to him.
Nope. The Flames doctors evaluated him and said he can't furthur injure his hip. He just needs time to heal, and can play through the injury, but it needs time to rest.


quite simple really. Any kind of injury + playing player = implied risk of further injury.
Players play with injuries every day.

Nope. The Flames doctors evaluated him and said he can't furthur injure his hip. He just needs time to heal, and can play through the injury..


Players play with injuries every day.More reasons why he should be going to the Olympics then.

Don Waddell speaking of Lehtonen:
"He is 100% healthy with his injury. What he hasn't gotten back yet is his conditioning. His endurance isn't where he'd like it to be, but he's pain free and we're glad his injury seems to be behind him."

but of course he can't play at the Olympics..
:speechles

More reasons why he should be going to the Olympics then.
Why don't you tell Kiprusoff that?

It's his decision.

I have to question this whole "the players owe their allegience to their clubs" bit....

It's part of the CBA IIRC, that the players wanted to particpate in the Olympics, and they got that. The players are allowed to play in the olympics if they should so choose, and the only allegiance they owe to their team is to play hard every night in the games their contracted to play in. If it's part of the CBA that the players go over to Turin, then there's no reason management in the NHL should be able to say no. After all, didn't the owners sign this CBA too?

It's part of the CBA IIRC, that the players wanted to particpate in the Olympics, and they got that. The players are allowed to play in the olympics if they should so choose, and the only allegiance they owe to their team is to play hard every night in the games their contracted to play in. If it's part of the CBA that the players go over to Turin, then there's no reason management in the NHL should be able to say no. After all, didn't the owners sign this CBA too?
You said it yourself,

the only allegiance they owe to their team is to play hard every night in the games their contracted to play in

In Kiprusoff's case, that is exactly what happened. His alligience is to be a 70-game goalie. The Flames only said if he wanted to rest to heal the injury, he would have to do it during the break. The Flames weren't gonna sacrifice their season for the Olympics. They paid him to be a 70-game goalie, and that's what he's gonna play. Everything else is entirely his decision.

I have to question this whole "the players owe their allegience to their clubs" bit....

It's part of the CBA IIRC, that the players wanted to particpate in the Olympics, and they got that. The players are allowed to play in the olympics if they should so choose, and the only allegiance they owe to their team is to play hard every night in the games their contracted to play in. If it's part of the CBA that the players go over to Turin, then there's no reason management in the NHL should be able to say no. After all, didn't the owners sign this CBA too?

Yes, but that's a hypothetical argument. There still hasn't been an instance where a player wants to go, but is being held back by his club (at least, none that I'm aware of). If a player came out and said this was case, I'm certain the Players' Union would be all over it.

I've heard the Kipper wasn't happy with the way he was treated after he took the Fins to the WC final but lost. This was purely his decision

The same thing was being discussed of Naslund today...his relationship with the swedish federation is not the best...Ohlund hinted that it might have something to do with him deciding not to play. He's in the worst of positions. If he plays, he is ripped in Sweden for not deserving to go, but if he pulls out he gets ripped as well.

How many northamerican players have there been, who can play in the Nhl, but not in the olympics because of injuries?

How many northamerican players have there been, who can play in the Nhl, but not in the olympics because of injuries?

Nieds should make that decision...

I think that the next olympics should be without NHL players, so that the fans don't have to be heartbeaten and lose faith in their favourite players because of them getting "injured" and not being at the olympics while they are playing at a full pace in the NHL. This is unworthy for the fans, especially us european fans.

I think that the next olympics should be without NHL players, so that the fans don't have to be heartbeaten and lose faith in their favourite players because of them getting "injured" and not being at the olympics while they are playing at a full pace in the NHL. This is unworthy for the fans, especially us european fans.


FAt chance of that happening when the games are in North America. Trust me, there's going to a lot more "healthier" players in Vancouver 2010.

FAt chance of that happening when the games are in North America. Trust me, there's going to a lot more "healthier" players in Vancouver 2010.
Yeah. Because the North Americans really want the european teams to be at their best :sarcasm:

This is what happens when you force the league to shut down for nearly three weeks causing a compressed schedule the year after a lockout …… it is short sighted, ill-advised, and just plain stupid.

Frankly, I'm amazed that there are more frequent and serious injuries.

This is what happens when you force the league to shut down for nearly three weeks causing a compressed schedule the year after a lockout ?? it is short sighted, ill-advised, and just plain stupid.The stupid thing is the 82-game season. Having it start in october, too.

This is what happens when you force the league to shut down for nearly three weeks causing a compressed schedule the year after a lockout …… it is short sighted, ill-advised, and just plain stupid.

Frankly, I'm amazed that there are more frequent and serious injuries.



Yeah, it's that, or the fact that quite a few players had a whole year off from hockey, and weren't as ready as they thought they'd be for the "new NHL".

Someone should compare the rate of absent players in 2002 to 2006. Or, the number of players on the IR this year compared to past years. For all we know, it just looks like there's more injuries than normal this year, at this point in the season. I'm just not sure you can blame all the injuries on the compressed schedule, there are other factors to account for.

If the NHL wasn't soley about the $$$, they'd make it a 72 game schedule.

I know it has been discussed here already, but personally I'm a bit disappointed of Pitkänen, that he doesn't play for the finnish national team at the olympics. For the Philadelphia Flyers, he can play, despite his "injury". He had last night even a +2 by the bud light plus/minus statistic in the game against NY Islanders. He is even one of the best considering that he has played about 20 games less than the best.

Of course nobody can force him to play at the olympics but the olympic games are only all 4 years. Clearly they can't play be world championship if they are engaged with their NHL-clubs.

It's a pity that Finland has never the best players in big tournaments playing. If I remember well Jari Kurri and Esa Tikkanen for example never played any world championship or olympic game at their best times. But ok it was understandable, because Jari Kurri played some time with Wayne Gretzky by the Edmonton Oilers and they won several times the Stanley Cup if I remember well.

If I'm wrong please correct me.

P.S: I forgot to add Miikka Kiprusoff, it's the same like Joni Pitkänen.