Jagr and Cassidy round 2

jagr and cassidy are back at it again in tomorrow's washington post.
jagr says.....
"You can't expect me to have the same numbers I had in Pittsburgh," Jagr said. "If you expect me to score 120 points here, I don't think anybody could do that, not even Mario [Lemieux], and I think he's the best ever. There are not many players who could win a scoring title with some teams."
cassidy says.....
"There isn't a team in the league that doesn't play some sort of defensive system," Cassidy said. "I think that's a copout to say the system doesn't allow you to score."
Jagr says....
He added: "In Pittsburgh, they let me do whatever I wanted. I run the power play, I am in every situation, I play 25 minutes a game. It's not the same here. You can't expect me to have the same numbers; it would be crazy. I am tired of hearing that. I didn't put up the same numbers that I did in Pittsburgh because it is impossible.
Cassidy says....
Cassidy has been vocal about needing more production out of his top offensive players -- a veiled reference to Jagr -- and the atmosphere between the coach and his star player could become combustible should the Capitals continue their early-season struggles.

"For the last four games, some of our top end [forwards], I don't know if they have a shot [on goal]," Cassidy said after Saturday's ugly 4-1 loss in St. Louis. "Come on fellows. If you want to be considered and treated like top end guys then you've got to bring something here. I hope our guys figure this out in a hurry because we've got to go into Ottawa and Toronto [this week], and we're going to get whacked if we keep playing like this."

What next?

One has to go and I don't think GMGM can trade the coach.

If you heard Jagr's interview on TSN he said a lot of the same things...even added that he had moved all his stuff into storage he was so sure he wasn't coming back. He said he's not part of the team (I think meaning The Captain) and that he should be getting 25-30 mins a night to produce 120 points. :rolleyes:

As much as Cassidy drives me crazy Jagr is a true egomaniac and really thinks he deserves all of this...ie ice time, double shifts, PP etc etc. Oh and he obviously thinks wearing the C makes him extra important! Forget on ice leadership…he just deserves that too. It's going to be a long long season.

They need to get rid of one or the other. I dont care which jsut do it soon, please.

I don't really understand why a coach wouldn't let Jagr play 30 minutes a game if that's what he wants. Just tell him to score goals and do whatever he want on ice and give him a winger and a center that can cover him.

Cassidy should be the first coach fired this year, I never liked the pwetty boy and I don't think going vocal in the media against your players and whining "they don't give me enough" (well that's your job to ensure they do, sucker) is what hockey minds call strategy.

I don't really understand why a coach wouldn't let Jagr play 30 minutes a game if that's what he wants. Just tell him to score goals and do whatever he want on ice and give him a winger and a center that can cover him.

Cassidy should be the first coach fired this year, I never liked the pwetty boy and I don't think going vocal in the media against your players and whining "they don't give me enough" (well that's your job to ensure they do, sucker) is what hockey minds call strategy.

Even TV analyst Craig Laughlin, paid by the team and rarely critical in any serious way, said that Jagr has been just standing around. That he hasn't been creating anything. He he is pointless in 4 straight games with 3 total shots on goal. Cassidy drives me crazy as well. But piling more ice time on a player that can't create a scoring chance with 18:00 of prime ice time is throwing good ice time after bad. Last year Jagr often played the entire lenth of a power play. This year he is forced to split that ice time with Robert Lang's unit that contains Peter Bondra. Last year Jagr wouldn't pass Bondra the puck in a shooting position and so Bondra's pp production collapsed. Jagr didn't pick up the slack doing what he wanted with the puck and the Caps pp dropped from 3rd to 14th in the league. This year the Caps have 5 ppg's. 1 from the Jagr unit and 4 from the Lang unit. Would you really be giving all that power play ice time to Jagr? That is an average about about 5 minutes of ice time a game and the difference between the 18:00 he is getting and the 23:00 he wants. Is that what you would actually do?

Jagr has a pattern going, no coach is good enough for him...granted cassidy is part of the problem but its always the same situation with jagr...you know i could let the not winning a scoring title or putting up +100 points in a season if he was out every night playing like it mattered...instead he goes through these little mood swings and becomes dead weight...he's one of the few players in the league that can take control of the game himself and thats partly why WAS forked over so much money...jagr was given the opportunity to play the game the way he wanted and lead the team in the direction he wanted but instead he's done jack

I think both cassidy and jagr need to go

I don't really understand why a coach wouldn't let Jagr play 30 minutes a game if that's what he wants. Just tell him to score goals and do whatever he want on ice and give him a winger and a center that can cover him.

Cassidy should be the first coach fired this year, I never liked the pwetty boy and I don't think going vocal in the media against your players and whining "they don't give me enough" (well that's your job to ensure they do, sucker) is what hockey minds call strategy.

Then when they play him for 25-30 minutes and does nothing he will complain that he is overworked. He's a headcase who needs to go.

One has to go and I don't think GMGM can trade the coach.

If you heard Jagr's interview on TSN he said a lot of the same things...even added that he had moved all his stuff into storage he was so sure he wasn't coming back. He said he's not part of the team (I think meaning The Captain) and that he should be getting 25-30 mins a night to produce 120 points. :rolleyes:

As much as Cassidy drives me crazy Jagr is a true egomaniac and really thinks he deserves all of this...ie ice time, double shifts, PP etc etc. Oh and he obviously thinks wearing the C makes him extra important! Forget on ice leadership…he just deserves that too. It's going to be a long long season.Jagr pisses and moans so much, he should be a baseball player, I dont know much about Cassidy but there isnt any coach who would be happy with the shoddy effort and whining coming from Jagr. His comments seem self centered to me he is more worried about scoring titles than helping his team win.

His comments seem self centered to me he is more worried about scoring titles than helping his team win.

Yup, that's Jags. Trade this guy BEFORE the cancer is untreatable. And no, we don't want him back. The only team that I could see trading for Jags is the Rags. Whatever happens, the Caps will take in the shorts to get rid of him just like the PENS. It's not the money that scares the 3 or 4 teams away. It's his ATTITUDE problem. He's been this way for about 10 years now.

Where was Peat when ole Teddy was making this deal? Remember puck fittsburgh? Teddy L should know better than trying to fool mother nature...

SaintRon

I dont know much about Cassidy


I dont know what Cassidy has to do with it.....I think its fair to say you just dont know much.

I dont know what Cassidy has to do with it.....I think its fair to say you just dont know much.

It's DEFINATELY more Jags than Cassidy.....Just like it was more Jags than (insert former PENS coach here).

SaintRon

It's DEFINATELY more Jags than Cassidy.....Just like it was more Jags than (insert former PENS coach here).

SaintRon

then you too are clueless about the situation.....

Cassidy has alienated many of the veteran players. His handling of the team lead to the retirement of Calle Johansson who still had at least a year left in him (could sure use him on the blueline instead of Kiwi). He has stuck Bondra on the checking line which not only has decreased his scoring (3 goals....2 on the PP and 1 as an extra skater on the delay penalty...NONE even strength)...it also split up the most consistant line of kono/grier/halpern.....rumor is now that most of that crew will be 4th liners in favor of a 3rd/checking line of Sutherby and 2 rookies.

Jagr needs to play better....whether he gets more ice time or not. I feel like they should send him out there until he drops and just forget about it.....but the teams problems are much deeper than 68

When Cassidy gets canned I fully expect to see more idiot Pit fans coming in here saying "Jagr kills another coach"....and they, like you, will be wrong....

then you too are clueless about the situation.....

If you say so. While I may or may not b clueless, what does that have to do with the truth? Truth is, JAGS is a cancer. The Caps are in stage 1 of the Jags "Springer" show. There is much more to come. You'll see or you won't. Imagine a team of guys working hard while watching the "star" float around. It's gotta get old after a while. Sometimes, the Cure is part of the disease.

PS: Not a PENS fan, I'm a hockey fan. Nice to meet u 2.

SaintRon (a.k.a. clueless)

If you say so. While I may or may not b clueless, what does that have to do with the truth? Truth is, JAGS is a cancer. The Caps are in stage 1 of the Jags "Springer" show. There is much more to come. You'll see or you won't. Imagine a team of guys working hard while watching the "star" float around. It's gotta get old after a while. Sometimes, the Cure is part of the disease.

PS: Not a PENS fan, I'm a hockey fan. Nice to meet u 2.

SaintRon (a.k.a. clueless)


I am not denying that Jagr is a strange and moody guy.....but for you to STRESS that he is the problem much more than Cassidy is just wrong.

I watched Mario float at the blueline for years.....while his wingers were tasked with the "centers" defensive responsibilities.....they did ok

and who cares what the 3rd/4th line grinders think if he floats....when they start putting up big numbers their roles will start to be more offensive too.....and you cant have it both ways, what you are saying is Jagr cant mope around and play uninspired (for whatever reason) but its understandable if the muckers on the team do if they see Jagr not giving it his all......all of them need to worry about themselves.

I didnt mean to make it sound like you were clueless in general...and its a bad choice of words....I guess what I am saying is I feel you are not completely dialed into the situtation here on this team. The coaching is pathetic.....Jagr needs to be a better player, no question. He will always be a flake to some extent, its just him.

I think you need to ask yourself a couple of questions.

1. Lang at even strenth has been creating scoring chances.
2. Lang and Bondra on the power play have resulted in 4 of the 5 Caps ppg's this year.
3. Jagr has produced 3 shots on goal in the last 4 games combined.
4. Knowing that and being behind by a goal or two in the second half of the game are you going to elect to give Jagr 1:45 to 2:00 of a given power play chance? or put Lang and Bondra out? Are you going to roll the Jagr line every other shift or get Lang and Bondra's lines out there too?
You see its not that easy to say,"Just put Jagr out there til he drops".
When Jagr is out there, the guys that have been producing are not.
Would you really rather sit the guys that are getting something done more in favor of more ice time for Jagr?

although, I will say that the current line layout for the ottawa game looks remarkably like a two line game.
I am not very convinced that throwing Pettinger-Gordon-Sutherby out against Hossa and Alfredsson is going to fly very well. I dont see a lot of scoring chances coming from them. Kono-Halpern-Willsie may not see a lot of ice either. I think its very possible that you will see a rotation like....
Jagr line
Lang line
Gordon line
Jagr
Lang
Jagr
Halpern
Lang
Jagr
Lang
Gordon
Jagr
Lang....I don't expect either of the 3rd or 4th lines to get a lot of ice time. This lineup looks like it is built for offense from the 1st and 2nd lines and occasional ice time for the 3rd and 4th to see if they can create some goals when they get out there. I don't think Kono and Halpern get regular ice time again until they score some.

I think you need to ask yourself a couple of questions.

1. Lang at even strenth has been creating scoring chances.
2. Lang and Bondra on the power play have resulted in 4 of the 5 Caps ppg's this year.
3. Jagr has produced 3 shots on goal in the last 4 games combined.
4. Knowing that and being behind by a goal or two in the second half of the game are you going to elect to give Jagr 1:45 to 2:00 of a given power play chance? or put Lang and Bondra out? Are you going to roll the Jagr line every other shift or get Lang and Bondra's lines out there too?
You see its not that easy to say,"Just put Jagr out there til he drops".
When Jagr is out there, the guys that have been producing are not.
Would you really rather sit the guys that are getting something done more in favor of more ice time for Jagr?


Im sorry...I must have missed all this "production" you speak of.

Lemme see....

2 goals against TO....7 combined shots in the first 2 periods. 3 in the first when 7 forwards had more ice time than Jagr (1 penalty 40 seconds in...so thats not a factor)....coming into this game Jagr had 4 points in 2 games...but appears to be pretty much benched in the first.....brilliant coaching.

1 goal against Montreal....17 shots (9 in the first two periods combined)

Another 2 goal outburst in Dallas....but IMO most were routine

1 goal on 14 measly shots against the Blues...none by Lang...2 by Jagr if we are keeping count. As a matter of fact...other than shot machine Zubrus, Jagr is the only Cap forward with more than 1 shot on goal.

1. More ice time to Jagr should not effect Langs line

2. Stick Jagr on the PP with Bondra and Lang but dont run it through him. He is great at picking up rebounds.....or even setting him up for a shot. Similar to his role when Oates was here...he may not have liked it....but thats tuff....the PP was ranked 3rd in the NHL then

4. Behind a goal I want my best, most explosive player out there as much as I can. The combination of Lang/Bondra/Jagr should all be somewhere on the first 2 lines.....part of the problem is to get all 3 quality ice time you have to roll those 3 lines. In that situation yes, Bondra or Lang lose time.....but they shouldnt becasue Bondra should be on a scoring line....not a checking line.

I would rather find a way to win......you win with your best players playing....if you cant make it work, you shouldnt be coaching

I would rather find a way to win......you win with your best players playing....if you cant make it work, you shouldnt be coaching

Exactly. Its not working and I dont think Cassidy can make it work, he hasnt done anthing in the past to make me change my opinion on that, hes got to go. I wasnt impressed by Cassidy last year but it was his first year and I thought he was learning from his mistakes (not turning the blind eye to them and alienating more players).

Even TV analyst Craig Laughlin, paid by the team and rarely critical in any serious way, said that Jagr has been just standing around. That he hasn't been creating anything. He he is pointless in 4 straight games with 3 total shots on goal. Cassidy drives me crazy as well. But piling more ice time on a player that can't create a scoring chance with 18:00 of prime ice time is throwing good ice time after bad. Last year Jagr often played the entire lenth of a power play. This year he is forced to split that ice time with Robert Lang's unit that contains Peter Bondra. Last year Jagr wouldn't pass Bondra the puck in a shooting position and so Bondra's pp production collapsed. Jagr didn't pick up the slack doing what he wanted with the puck and the Caps pp dropped from 3rd to 14th in the league. This year the Caps have 5 ppg's. 1 from the Jagr unit and 4 from the Lang unit. Would you really be giving all that power play ice time to Jagr? That is an average about about 5 minutes of ice time a game and the difference between the 18:00 he is getting and the 23:00 he wants. Is that what you would actually do?

I'm not saying Jagr hasn't been standing around. He's unhappy with his situation with the team so it shouldn't be a surprise - all I'm saying is make the guy happy. And I'm not saying you should reduce Ice Time of other good players either. I think the coach should be the one that makes sure his team has chemistry and his players want to perform. I don't think your coach's approach is in any way in that direction, that's all.

Why not putting Jagr's unit first, then Lang's unit with Jagr on the point? Not saying this is THE solution, only one way of trying things other than go complain to the newspapers about your players' attitude (and don't tell me "he tried it february 6th", I don't know, it's only an example).

I think if the team doesn't intend to move Jagr in the next few weeks, he should be named captain, the coach should be fired and an offensive-based system should be put in place. But that's me.

I dont know what Cassidy has to do with it.....I think its fair to say you just dont know much.Good Keep Jagr then, Im sure all you need to do is kiss his ass untill he is happy and the Caps problems will dissapear. Better yet make Jagr coach and GM also. The guy is a tool you dont have to be a Caps fan to see that.

I'm not saying Jagr hasn't been standing around. He's unhappy with his situation with the team so it shouldn't be a surprise - all I'm saying is make the guy happy. And I'm not saying you should reduce Ice Time of other good players either. I think the coach should be the one that makes sure his team has chemistry and his players want to perform. I don't think your coach's approach is in any way in that direction, that's all.

Why not putting Jagr's unit first, then Lang's unit with Jagr on the point? Not saying this is THE solution, only one way of trying things other than go complain to the newspapers about your players' attitude (and don't tell me "he tried it february 6th", I don't know, it's only an example).

I think if the team doesn't intend to move Jagr in the next few weeks, he should be named captain, the coach should be fired and an offensive-based system should be put in place. But that's me.

You are suggesting that Jagr is standing around because he is not happy. That only shows that he responds to adversity not by fighting harder, but by quitting. Thats great.
Jagr ran the power play last season, all season. Most of that season Bondra and Gonchar played the points and got few shots. Jagr was public in the newspaper about his preference for a power play that worked down low and didn't rely on slap shots from the point. Bondra had only lead the NHL in power play goals the two previous years and Gonchar had only lead NHL defensemen in goals the year before. Not using them is silly. So this year Cassidy moved Bondra and Lang to a different unit to get Bondra his shots. That part has worked. Why change it? Jagr doesn't play the point, because he doesnt use a slap shot but on very rare occasions. if you watched him play often you would notice that he doesnt play above the circles at all.

You are suggesting that Jagr is standing around because he is not happy. That only shows that he responds to adversity not by fighting harder, but by quitting. Thats great.
Jagr ran the power play last season, all season. Most of that season Bondra and Gonchar played the points and got few shots. Jagr was public in the newspaper about his preference for a power play that worked down low and didn't rely on slap shots from the point. Bondra had only lead the NHL in power play goals the two previous years and Gonchar had only lead NHL defensemen in goals the year before. Not using them is silly. So this year Cassidy moved Bondra and Lang to a different unit to get Bondra his shots. That part has worked. Why change it? Jagr doesn't play the point, because he doesnt use a slap shot but on very rare occasions. if you watched him play often you would notice that he doesnt play above the circles at all.

I think you didn't quite understand.

Not saying this is THE solution, only one way of trying things other than go complain to the newspapers about your players' attitude (and don't tell me "he tried it february 6th", I don't know, it's only an example)