This is where the Russians go wrong

As a Canadian who loves Canada-Russia classis games more than anyhting I can't help but notice a big difference in the way the Russians play as opposed to back in the 70s and 80s. First off througout the 80s the Russians were Canada's biggest nemesis. In the '84 and '87 Canada Cup they were an OT goal away form winning it while they stomped us in '81. But take even the '06 WJC Gold Medal game, I felt that in recent years the Russians have been guilty of being too individualistic on the ice. Look at the tapes from the '87 Canada Cup, you've got the KLM line and Fetisov and Kasatonov on defence. Supremely skilled. But look at how they use each other so well. They were all skilled but the way they would pass to each other its as though they all made each other better all the time.

Now Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Malkin are great players but especially Ovechkin seems to not make the players around him better. The Russians would have beaten Canada in the WJC if they had play more as a team. As Phil Esposito once said "If you play as team, it beats all the talent in the world!"

Which also brings me to 1972. There were times in the Summit series where the Russians made Canada look foolish. Their puck possession and the way they used everyone one the ice. That's something that the Russians need to get back to if they want to be succesful again. I know it was easier too play as a team when you're playing together all year round, but other countries have adopted that team concept where as the Russians have gotten away from it.

As a Canadian who loves Canada-Russia classis games more than anyhting I can't help but notice a big difference in the way the Russians play as opposed to back in the 70s and 80s. First off througout the 80s the Russians were Canada's biggest nemesis. In the '84 and '87 Canada Cup they were an OT goal away form winning it while they stomped us in '81. But take even the '06 WJC Gold Medal game, I felt that in recent years the Russians have been guilty of being too individualistic on the ice. Look at the tapes from the '87 Canada Cup, you've got the KLM line and Fetisov and Kasatonov on defence. Supremely skilled. But look at how they use each other so well. They were all skilled but the way they would pass to each other its as though they all made each other better all the time.

Now Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Malkin are great players but especially Ovechkin seems to not make the players around him better. The Russians would have beaten Canada in the WJC if they had play more as a team. As Phil Esposito once said "If you play as team, it beats all the talent in the world!"

Which also brings me to 1972. There were times in the Summit series where the Russians made Canada look foolish. Their puck possession and the way they used everyone one the ice. That's something that the Russians need to get back to if they want to be succesful again. I know it was easier too play as a team when you're playing together all year round, but other countries have adopted that team concept where as the Russians have gotten away from it.

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

Oh give me a break, was it the refs fault that Khudobin gave up 5 goals, was it the refs fault that you could not score, I am sorry I must have missed the fact that the ref had a hockey stick in his hand and was whacking away at rebounds. You talk all about those "phantom calls" you want some talk BS calls - what about Downy's first penalty of the game - was that a charge - no he glided into the Russian, ie he did not take mor ethan the three strides before he hit him. Or what about Khudobin's attempt to make the Russian javelin team, but I must have missed the new IIHF rules where you can toss sticks in the air. As well what about the elbow/blow to the head that the Russian player gave the Canadian player right after the missed goal.

You want to know why your team lost - Russia Quit after falling 2 - 0 plain and simple.

I don't get it what are you discussing here? We are still better then you at the junior level. We have a positive balance in games with Canada (17-12-2). And a positive balance in elimination games as of late (4-2). So what's the talk about? You still have a job to do. Grind on :yo:

You want to know why your team lost - Russia Quit after falling 2 - 0 plain and simple.

Yepp, we were watching to different games then. But, of course, if you say it is "plain and simple", it makes it so!

Yepp, we were watching to different games then. But, of course, if you say it is "plain and simple", it makes it so!
Then what would you say is the reason Russia lost?

I don't get it what are you discussing here? We are still better then you at the junior level. We have a positive balance in games with Canada (17-12-2). And a positive balance in elimination games as of late (4-2). So what's the talk about? You still have a job to do. Grind on :yo:


Regardless of what you say Canada is still the best hockey nation in the world we dominate it and will continue to and when we go to the olympics there will be another gold medal coming back to canada.

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

I think you are too hard on the ref. The no-goal is not his fault (well he should have stopped the game to watch it, but...). It's the one-ref systems that is to blame. The penalties, well, may be Canada got a little less then they should have, but that's a minor thing. But, nevertheless, something tells me we'll see a lot of whining N Americans next year in Sweden. There's no freaking way the refs will allow the hitting game (even a clean one) the way we saw it here (and it was mostly clean)... Just diff. part of the world, different ice, different home crowd. And I hope, A BUNCH OF US COMING TO CHEER to a not so far away Sweden :yo:

Phil makes a good observation here.

When I look back at the Russian powerhouses of the 70's and 80's, there's two things that set them apart from everyone else:

1) They came at you in 5 man waves, with everyone working in near perfect synchronicity with each other.

2) IMO they were in better physical condition than any other hockey team on the planet.

The talent is still there, but these two edges they had are no longer. They play more like 5 extremely talented individuals, and the rest of the world has caught up to them when it comes to training methods.

I think you are too hard on the ref. The no-goal is not his fault (well he should have stopped the game to watch it, but...). It's the one-ref systems that is to blame. The penalties, well, may be Canada got a little less then they should have, but that's a minor thing. But, nevertheless, something tells me we'll see a lot of whining N Americans next year in Sweden. There's no freaking way the refs will allow the hitting game (even a clean one) the way we saw it here (and it was mostly clean)... Just diff. part of the world, different ice, different home crowd. And I hope, A BUNCH OF US COMING TO CHEER to a not so far away Sweden :yo:

Ya unfortunatly when the juniors are in Europe then ya the refrees don't let the game be played the way it is supposed to be with hard hits. But that won't stop Canada from repeating because we have won in europe before without being able to throw those big clean body checks.

I think you are too hard on the ref. The no-goal is not his fault (well he should have stopped the game to watch it, but...). It's the one-ref systems that is to blame. The penalties, well, may be Canada got a little less then they should have, but that's a minor thing. But, nevertheless, something tells me we'll see a lot of whining N Americans next year in Sweden. There's no freaking way the refs will allow the hitting game (even a clean one) the way we saw it here (and it was mostly clean)... Just diff. part of the world, different ice, different home crowd. And I hope, A BUNCH OF US COMING TO CHEER to a not so far away Sweden :yo:

The no goal was the last straw that broke Camels back, before that there were phantom calls on Emelin and Zubov, no calls on Pogge for tripping and Boyd for roughing, these are the mainly calls that the changed the outcome of the game when they changed momentum and did not allow Russia 2 5 on 3 power plays.

Regardless of what you say Canada is still the best hockey nation in the world we dominate it

:dunno: I didn't say much I just quoted my numbers. Would you like to give yours to support this homerism?


and will continue to and when we go to the olympics there will be another gold medal coming back to canada.

Must be so if you say so :clap:

Ya unfortunatly when the juniors are in Europe then ya the refrees don't let the game be played the way it is supposed to be with hard hits. But that won't stop Canada from repeating because we have won in europe before without being able to throw those big clean body checks.

Stupid me. Abolutely nothing can stop you :bow:

As a Canadian who loves Canada-Russia classis games more than anyhting I can't help but notice a big difference in the way the Russians play as opposed to back in the 70s and 80s. First off througout the 80s the Russians were Canada's biggest nemesis. In the '84 and '87 Canada Cup they were an OT goal away form winning it while they stomped us in '81. But take even the '06 WJC Gold Medal game, I felt that in recent years the Russians have been guilty of being too individualistic on the ice. Look at the tapes from the '87 Canada Cup, you've got the KLM line and Fetisov and Kasatonov on defence. Supremely skilled. But look at how they use each other so well. They were all skilled but the way they would pass to each other its as though they all made each other better all the time.

Now Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and Malkin are great players but especially Ovechkin seems to not make the players around him better. The Russians would have beaten Canada in the WJC if they had play more as a team. As Phil Esposito once said "If you play as team, it beats all the talent in the world!"

Which also brings me to 1972. There were times in the Summit series where the Russians made Canada look foolish. Their puck possession and the way they used everyone one the ice. That's something that the Russians need to get back to if they want to be succesful again. I know it was easier too play as a team when you're playing together all year round, but other countries have adopted that team concept where as the Russians have gotten away from it.BBBOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Then what would you say is the reason Russia lost?

Pogge+bad Malkin+lost pile ups on the crease+better Canadian defense

BBBOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Yea, that was more of a philosophic remark...

no calls on Pogge for tripping

Yea, I remember that one. But it was marginal....

There's no freaking way the refs will allow the hitting game (even a clean one) the way we saw it here (and it was mostly clean)

And there in lies the problem with hockey in Europe. Physical play is clean, but their referees invent their own rules to outlaw it.

Yepp, we were watching to different games then. But, of course, if you say it is "plain and simple", it makes it so!

Hmm seems you were outshooting us badly at that point, the majority of the play was inm team Canada's end as well, then comes the second period where Russia was caught running around and it continued into the third - but yeah Russia did not quit

And there in lies the problem with hockey in Europe. Physical play is clean, but their referees invent their own rules to outlaw it.

Yea, I also think Europe should clamp down on hooking and promote physical game. Although the SM-League and the RSL move in that direction.

I don't think the rules are not invented however, they are interprted differently. And as with many interpretations, should't it have the right to be out there? You don't like it, I don't like it, but nonetheless Canada has to deal with it.

Yepp, we were watching to different games then. But, of course, if you say it is "plain and simple", it makes it so!

here read in between the lines 5 TO -0. if that is not plain and simple i don't know what is.

here read in between the lines 5 TO -0. if that is not plain and simple i don't know what is.

Let's go through this again: The condition of the problem: "Scoreline: 5:0". The answer to the problem: "Russia stopped playing after the 1-st period". Uhmmm. Wrong answer. You failed the test. Did Canada "stop playing" in 81?

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

This is the most pathetic post I have ever read on hfboards.

Let's go through this again: The condition of the problem: "Scoreline: 5:0". The answer to the problem: "Russia stopped playing after the 1-st period". Uhmmm. Wrong answer. You failed the test. Did Canada "stop playing" in 81?

What happened then - Russia is outworking Canada, outshooting Canada, and outplaying Canada during the first by the of the game Cnada outshot them, outworked them, and outplayed them, umm yeah but Russia did not quit

And there in lies the problem with hockey in Europe. Physical play is clean, but their referees invent their own rules to outlaw it.
Could say the same for soccer too. The English Premiership doesn't mind the odd physical game but the refs in Europe seem to change the rules during the UEFA Champions League. :shakehead

Anyway I'm getting off topic. ;)

This is the most pathetic post I have ever read on hfboards.

You could say that for every post he makes.

I don't get it what are you discussing here? We are still better then you at the junior level. We have a positive balance in games with Canada (17-12-2). And a positive balance in elimination games as of late (4-2). So what's the talk about? You still have a job to do. Grind on :yo:

Those stats are misleading....Canada before 1982 used to send the previous years memorial cup winners to represent them, and only after did they send a true national team. Also instead of playing in Russia our great superstars who are within the age limit played in the NHL and many of these players were not released to the junior team. For instance some recent examples include, spezza, staal, horton, nash, crosby, boumeester,bergeron the addition of some of these players would have greatly improved our lineups and possibly turned some silvers into golds

Yea, I also think Europe should clamp down on hooking and promote physical game. Although the SM-League and the RSL move in that direction.

I don't think the rules are not invented however, they are interprted differently. And as with many interpretations, should't it have the right to be out there? You don't like it, I don't like it, but nonetheless Canada has to deal with it.

No, I would say that in many cases (ie: the interpretation of charging), the rules are, basically, invented. The fault lies with the IIHF, which does not bother to properly instruct or train the officials it uses for these major tournaments on how it wants the games called.

Hockey games at the IIHF level are matches fought by three sides: Team A, Team B and the referees. Unfortunately, the referees often win, and hockey suffers for it.

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

It looks like you're including all the russian swan dives in your careful studying..... :biglaugh: They were diving all over the place. I've never seen something so pathetic as when that russian got graced on the shoulder and went down like a ton of bricks and stayed on the ice for a while and then was icing the back of his neck on the bench. :shakehead

No, I would say that in many cases (ie: the interpretation of charging), the rules are, basically, invented. The fault lies with the IIHF, which does not bother to properly instruct or train the officials it uses for these major tournaments on how it wants the games called.

Hockey games at the IIHF level are matches fought by three sides: Team A, Team B and the referees. Unfortunately, the referees often win, and hockey suffers for it.


I'll agree with most of this, in particular that NA refs are more consistent then Euros. We don't like NA refs, but that's because they usually kill our boys who are used to more hooking and less hitting.

For instance some recent examples include, spezza, staal, horton, nash, crosby, boumeester,bergeron the addition of some of these players would have greatly improved our lineups and possibly turned some silvers into golds

Bingo.

I agree with you Big Phill. I also noticed that difference some time ago. Old Soviet teams were like a machine, that was their strenght, but they were ofcourse very skilled individualy. Now they often look like a bunch of guys that play together for the first time, They lost their main strenght and a thing they were famous for. And I'm not talking about this WJC squad wich I havn't seen. I'm talking in general.

Phil makes a good observation here.

When I look back at the Russian powerhouses of the 70's and 80's, there's two things that set them apart from everyone else:

1) They came at you in 5 man waves, with everyone working in near perfect synchronicity with each other.

2) IMO they were in better physical condition than any other hockey team on the planet.

The talent is still there, but these two edges they had are no longer. They play more like 5 extremely talented individuals, and the rest of the world has caught up to them when it comes to training methods.


The younger russians on this forum don't know what the Soviet system was all about. It was about 5 men-units. It was about synchronicity. It was about controlling the puck in three zones. It was about being physically in shape like no other team.

The fall of the Soviet Empire brought individualism into the picture. Where the KLM line used to pass the puck like no other line in the league, today, it's all about being individualist.

The younger russians on this forum don't know what the Soviet system was all about.
:bow: :bow: :bow:

The younger russians on this forum don't know what the Soviet system was all about. It was about 5 men-units. It was about synchronicity. It was about controlling the puck in three zones. It was about being physically in shape like no other team.


It was also about taking the best players in the country and putting them on one team, Red Army, so they could play together year after year and thus be ready for international play. That's where the synchronicity came from. Now they're throwing teams together at the last minute like everyone else and discovering that sometimes the chemistry just isn't there.

Russia totally reinvented that little hockey game in the 50-th. Because of Russia and mostley from the coaches and players coming from the russian hockey system or bandy(http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Track/2049/English/Bandyhistory.html), the ice hockey was never the same. Russia popularized this game in Scandinavia and Chekoslovakia. Not Canada, not NHL, Russia made this game global. I am not afraid to say, that Russians are the actual builders of the game, where Canadians invented it. Russians perfected it in many ways. Drop passes, five men unites, low and high cycling, rashing d, before Bobby Orr Russians used to have d-men joining the attack for decades. Five men cycling, break away passes, open ice hits, set up the rash behind a net and thousands more, which Canadians use or not today. Actually Canadians adopted 90% of Russian improvments and NHL look as any European league now. What you have in NHL is European style of hockey plus Canadian goonery and fights. So Canadians play Russian style of hockey with goons and intensity. How about to make this game as a show. How about Canadian coaches would train a ballet of ice, five men units. Scotty Bowman did that. But you need brains for that.

Russia totally reinvented that little hockey game in the 50-th. Because of Russia and mostley from the coaches and players coming from the russian hockey system or bandy(http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Track/2049/English/Bandyhistory.html), the ice hockey was never the same. Russia popularized this game in Scandinavia and Chekoslovakia. Not Canada, not NHL, Russia made this game global. I am not afraid to say, that Russians are the actual builders of the game, where Canadians invented it. Russians perfected it in many ways. Drop passes, five men unites, low and high cycling, rashing d, before Bobby Orr Russians used to have d-men joining the attack for decades. Five men cycling, break away passes, open ice hits, set up the rash behind a net and thousands more, which Canadians use or not today. Actually Canadians adopted 90% of Russian improvments and NHL look as any European league now. What you have in NHL is European style of hockey plus Canadian goonery and fights. So Canadians play Russian style of hockey with goons and intensity. How about to make this game as a show. How about Canadian coaches would train a ballet of ice, five men units. Scotty Bowman did that. But you need brains for that.

You forgot that the Soviets also invented the television and the car.

The great architect of Soviet hockey was Tarasov, who was a brilliant coach and innovator. But he based his system on The Hockey Handbook, written by Lloyd Percival, a Canadian sports scholar of the postwar years. Old-school NHL types didn't take Percival seriously, but the Russians sure did.
By the way, Bobby Orr was far from the first attacking Dman in the NHL. I'm afraid the Soviets didn't invent the drop pass, the breakaway, the open-ice hit, or organizing the rush from behind the net, either.
I will give Tarasov credit for the five-man unit, the stress on fitness (inspired by Percival), cycling and the soccer-inspired belief in puck possession.
And thanks, Senator. We will take credit for fighting and goonery. Unless you include spearing and kicking as part of "goonery." In that case, the Russians were major contributors to that, too. :teach:

Senator is so very right on many points,, I have follwed Russian/Soviet hockey very closely for about 15 years now and i have put together a great collection of Russian hockey on video. so i have seen all the big games and great players and the style the Russians play. The Russian took the game of hockey to another level and they had the rest of the world in awe of them in the 70's and 80's.

What has happened is the rest of the world is now copying what the russian have always done. Look at for example at the training techniques on and of the ice that is now used by team canada and team usa, they are doing the same things the russians did so long ago. Idividualizim has hurt the russian game unfortunetly and also another point that no one seem to mention, it seem s that it is team Russia that is always traveling to north america to play in North america touroments.
That traveling those time changes that takes a toll on you how offten is it that team canada goes to Russia to play??? it's seems to me that when team canada does have to go outside of Norht america they don't seem to do as well.

Anyway the point is that mother Russia needs to get back to her proper spot as the Greatest hockey nation on earth.

Russia totally reinvented that little hockey game in the 50-th. Because of Russia and mostley from the coaches and players coming from the russian hockey system or bandy(http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Track/2049/English/Bandyhistory.html), the ice hockey was never the same. Russia popularized this game in Scandinavia and Chekoslovakia. Not Canada, not NHL, Russia made this game global. I am not afraid to say, that Russians are the actual builders of the game, where Canadians invented it. Russians perfected it in many ways. Drop passes, five men unites, low and high cycling, rashing d, before Bobby Orr Russians used to have d-men joining the attack for decades. Five men cycling, break away passes, open ice hits, set up the rash behind a net and thousands more, which Canadians use or not today. Actually Canadians adopted 90% of Russian improvments and NHL look as any European league now. What you have in NHL is European style of hockey plus Canadian goonery and fights. So Canadians play Russian style of hockey with goons and intensity. How about to make this game as a show. How about Canadian coaches would train a ballet of ice, five men units. Scotty Bowman did that. But you need brains for that.

:eek: . I shouldn't really reply to this post but whatever. As a Pole I may be seen as biased against Russians but I think it's the other way around. I've always been a fan of Russian/Soviet hockey. My dad's stories about great Soviet teams got me interested in hockey. So, to point just one thing from your post: Chechoslovaks had strong teams already in the 30's when hockey wasn't even known in Soviet Union. Heck, even Poles had strong teams back then. I've been reading your posts for some time and I find it quite amusing that a Russian living in a western country, probably for a long time can be such Homo Sovieticus. You're a Homo Sovieticus . Your brain is still somewhere in the 50's. And the "you need brains for that" stuff directed for a country you're living in and is beating Russians in hockey constantly (lately) is not only extremely rude but just plain stupid.

There's no denying the influence of Russian hockey, particularly in the area of fitness and a swirling, speedy attack where wingers criss-crossed the ice, etc. But to suggest they invented rushing defencemen or open ice hitting is ludicrous in the extreme. Take a look at '72 Series. The Russian defencemen were very much stay-at-home, defensively aware guys who fed the puck quickly to their wingers. It was Canada who had rushing D-men like Brad Park, Serge Savard and Guy Lapointe. Then, of course, there was Orr, who was injured.

And I think if you investigate the history or Swedish and Finnish hockey, you'll find two Canadians -- Billy Harris and Carl Brewer -- who had a tremendous influence on their systems in the '60s and 70s.

And as for five-man units. Who cares? How influential was that?

We've learned from each other.

You all missing the point. What do you mean strong teams????????

Before Russians, there was no figure skating to speak. Before brazilians there was no football as we know it today. Before Russians there was no ice hockey, just mindless, boring up and down play. Watching TML any year in the past would put you to sleep in a second. Watching Russians play and you ask yourslef, why this game is still not played like this in Canada Do you feel the drift??

Russians totally reinvented the game and by doing so, they imposed their way on ice hockey in Europe and North America. Winning all those Olympics and Championships make people think. Also, may be because Russians were handing away lopsided wins to Poland, Finns and trashing to no end all the others. Their system was studied and adopted by the other hockey nations. Canadian style of play was put in the garbage bag and never EVER after that Canadians were wanted as hockey people in Europe. I mean EVER. Before King came last year. I see european scouts in Canada and even European coaches.============= :clap:

If you know, Russian system of interchangable attack allows any d-man to rash the puck. It was done already in the 60-th. It is a routine play now in NHL. To play five men unit you need a very high skill team. I beg that Ottawa would play Spezza line and parring them with Redden and Volchenkov all the time. By doing so, you would create a clatch pyaterka. Scoring timely goals but mostley destroying teams in the playoffs. Zero tolorence rule allows now to play hockey at high speeds and that's why NHL would dig deeper into a bag of Russian inventions.

:eek: . I shouldn't really reply to this post but whatever. As a Pole I may be seen as biased against Russians but I think it's the other way around. I've always been a fan of Russian/Soviet hockey. My dad's stories about great Soviet teams got me interested in hockey. So, to point just one thing from your post: Chechoslovaks had strong teams already in the 30's when hockey wasn't even known in Soviet Union. Heck, even Poles had strong teams back then. I've been reading your posts for some time and I find it quite amusing that a Russian living in a western country, probably for a long time can be such Homo Sovieticus. You're a Homo Sovieticus man. Your brain is still somewhere in the 50's. And the "you need brains for that" stuff directed for a country you're living in and is beating Russians in hockey constantly (lately) is not only extremely rude but just plain stupid.
Homo Sovieticus Man. Awesome!! :handclap:

That traveling those time changes that takes a toll on you how offten is it that team canada goes to Russia to play??? it's seems to me that when team canada does have to go outside of Norht america they don't seem to do as well.


I don't know, 2 golds and a silver in the last three European-based World Championships seems pretty good to me.

Homo Sovieticus Man. Awesome!! :handclap:

Hahaha, good one ;) :innocent:. Fixed.

Anyway the point is that mother Russia needs to get back to her proper spot as the Greatest hockey nation on earth.

Don't be arrogant. Now, certainly the world has benefitted tremendously from Russian hockey. A great many innovations have come out of Russia since she seriously took up the game. But lets make one thing perfectly clear. Russia has never been the greatest hockey nation on earth, and it sure as hell has never been her "proper spot".

Canada has always been the greatest hockey nation on earth. And do you know why? It's not because we produce more of the best players than any other country, it's not because during best-on-best competition we have won more than any other country, and it's not because we invented the game. It's because no country in the world lives and breathes hockey from its very soul like Canada does. Hockey is part of our identity like none other.

You can reference all the Russian victories in world championships and Olympics against 2nd and 3rd tier opposition if you like, and you can pretend that Russian hockey invented everything but the water bottle, but you're only fooling youself man.

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

Actually I think you are wrong on both counts. Russia used to be synonymous with winning through team work. Their approach has swung a bit too far away from the controlled environment the players used to work in. Now we have some guys playing for the Russian side who not only stand out individually, but have become bigger hot dogs than a lot of North American players. That is quite a shift. A more balanced approach would help them.

This Canadian team was not one that was full of superior players. This championship was won through hard work and team work. They had to play Sutter's system or not play at all. Sound somewhat familiar?

As for your complaints about the referring impact, there is absolutely no merit to your argument. If a biased fan wants to sift through any game and look for things to complain about I am sure he will find something.

Russia had their chances with a 15 to 3 edge in shots and failed to score. That is what cost them the game. After that the Russian team really did not put together much in the way of continued pressure. The Canadian's won through hard work and sticking to the system.

You forgot that the Soviets also invented the television and the car.

You are right about the television though :biglaugh:

There is lots of room to share the development of the game of hockey. It has never been all Canada, but it certainly was not all Russia either. In fact the Russian system of play borrowed heavily from old style Canadian play. Take that from an old Canadian.

As for Russian domination of the World and Olympic stage, this is a two sided issue. For many years the amateur hockey in Canada declined. Canada could send a damned good amateur club team to compete. From the 50's onward hockey progressively shifted to the pro arena. As the NHL expanded the number of skilled players left in the amateur ranks dwindled. Bunny Ahearne made sure pro players would never compete for Canada.

Meanwhile the Russian "amateur" teams began to dominate. Men who did nothing but play hockey for a living formed a single super team that had continuity on its side. These teams were very good and dominated the world stage, but they were scarcely amateurs.

Now with the shifts away from "amateur status" and the even bigger political shifts, the game has moved forward again. There is much more parity among hockey playing nations. But make no mistake about it. Russia's period of domination was more based on world and sports politics than style of play.

Don't be arrogant. Now, certainly the world has benefitted tremendously from Russian hockey. A great many innovations have come out of Russia since she seriously took up the game. But lets make one thing perfectly clear. Russia has never been the greatest hockey nation on earth, and it sure as hell has never been her "proper spot".

I agree: Red Ace must be an idiot to try to claim the sport that Canada owns, and that is made larger than life by big Canadian hearts, and the otherway around. Stupid him

Winning all those Olympics and Championships make people think.

Yeah, it made Canadians think: "Gee, I wish the IOC and IIHF would let us send our best players like the Russians, Czechs, Swedes and Finns get to do. Instead we're stuck with the Trail Smoke Eaters."

Yeah, it made Canadians think: "Gee, I wish the IOC and IIHF would let us send our best players like the Russians, Czechs, Swedes and Finns get to do. Instead we're stuck with the Trail Smoke Eaters."

You always had limited number of good players in the league. 1972 proved it. 1974 just put an exclamation point to it. Oilers who had just four, up to the russian standarts players in Gretzky, Messier, Kurri and Fuhr were just killing the talentless league. Your games were a snooze fest before Russians and other europeans came to the NHL. If you even put a gun to my head, I would never watch anything you are calling the classic hockey. No skills, total crap, crap.

You are right about the television though :biglaugh:

The television was classic. :jump:

Include radio as well. Or you did not know that? Even the phone was invented by an italian marconi, not bell. You you did not know that either :yo:

Guglielmo Marconi, an Italian inventor, proved the feasibility of radio and phone communication. He sent and received his first radio signal in Italy in 1895. By 1899 he flashed the first wireless signal across the English Channel and two years later received the letter "S", telegraphed from England to Newfoundland. This was the first successful transatlantic radiotelegraph message in 1902.

It was this radio signal detection apparatus that Popov demonstrated to the members of the Russian Physical and Chemical Society on May 7, 1895. On this day, Alexander Popov presented a demonstration which would become recognized as an historic achievement. This demonstration, together with another by Popov which reportedly took place the following year, eventually would produce controversy among historians concerning whether the credit for "inventing" radio or phone should be given to Marconi, Popov or Nikola Tesla

Nikola Tesla is now credited with having inventing modern radio; the American Supreme Court overturned Marconi's patent in 1943 in favor of Tesla.) :clap:

You always had limited number of good players in the league. 1972 proved it. 1974 just put an exclamation point to it. Oilers who had just four, up to the russian standarts players in Gretzky, Messier, Kurri and Fuhr were just killing the talentless league. Your games were a snooze fest before Russians and other europeans came to the NHL. If you even put a gun to my head, I would never watch anything you are calling the classic hockey. No skills, total crap, crap.
This is funny. Last year, thanks to the lock-out we got the chance to watch European Hockey in bunches (Swdedish league, RSL, Finland..) and let me tell you that i found it quite boring. No grit, no hits, no offense, a lot of trapping, not many great plays where u had to wait for a powerplay to see one. The beauty of todays game comes from the mix of European Hockey and NA hockey. The two style learned a lot from each others.

Could you get any more off topic?

You always had limited number of good players in the league. 1972 proved it. 1974 just put an exclamation point to it. Oilers who had just four, up to the russian standarts players in Gretzky, Messier, Kurri and Fuhr were just killing the talentless league. Your games were a snooze fest before Russians and other europeans came to the NHL. If you even put a gun to my head, I would never watch anything you are calling the classic hockey. No skills, total crap, crap.

What are you smoking?

In 1972 we had a bunch of Canadian players who were out of shape at the start of the games and came back to win in Moscow.

You are not serious about 1974. That WHA team was not even our C team.

It's amazing that we win all these tournaments with no skill at all. :dunno:

What are you smoking?

In 1972 we had a bunch of Canadian players who were out of shape at the start of the games and came back to win in Moscow.

You are not serious about 1974. That WHA team was not even our C team.

It's amazing that we win all these tournaments with no skill at all. :dunno:

excellent point....it was early september and our players did not play all summer while the russians where in excellent shape...it also didnt hurt that the russians played and practised together....but all this doesnt matter becuase we all know the end result

You always had limited number of good players in the league. 1972 proved it.

Um, Canada won in 1972. You sure showed me.

1974 just put an exclamation point to it.

Um, that wasn't the NHL. Keep it up, though, you're killing me.

All I have to say is that if Canada has always been that great hockey nation uncontested by anyone else even during the Soviet period of dominance, the 50 year gold medal drought, and the hardly mentioned vs NHL competitions that Russia won...

Well all Canadians should stop playing hockey, you are the best, no need to give anyone else credit or play any hockey games as we all know nobody is better than Canada, has ever been, or ever will be.


(Canada is great, but apparently the 2002 gold got to some Canadian homer's heads... hopefully we will get another 1998 for some Canadian fans to return to Earth from above the clouds)

In 1972 we had a bunch of Canadian players who were out of shape at the start of the games and came back to win in Moscow.


after headhunting Russia's best player out of the tournament :biglaugh:

The television was classic. :jump:

Include radio as well. Or you did not know that? Even the phone was invented by an italian marconi, not bell. You you did not know that either :yo:


Marconi did not invent the telephone, he invented the radio. Big difference.

And Bell wasn't Canadian either, so your point is moot.

The television was classic. :jump:

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae408.cfm

Even the phone was invented by an italian marconi, not bell. You you did not know that either :yo:

http://www.privateline.com/TelephoneHistory/History1.htm


Why am I not surprised?

A World Junior thread that includes refrences to Marconi and Alexander Graham Bell has obviously taken a serious turn in the wrong direction. Hard to salvage it after that.

This is funny. Last year, thanks to the lock-out we got the chance to watch European Hockey in bunches (Swdedish league, RSL, Finland..) and let me tell you that i found it quite boring. No grit, no hits, no offense, a lot of trapping, not many great plays where u had to wait for a powerplay to see one. The beauty of todays game comes from the mix of European Hockey and NA hockey. The two style learned a lot from each others.

Where did you watch RSL and SM-League? I caught quite a bit of Swedish hockey on TV, it was not NHL, but quite entertaining in its way.. But I would agree that a little more physical play would do in Euro hockey. But, as I was saying, I think RSL and SM are getting more physical year by year: the Finns because there's quite a bit of Canadian influence, we - because we were not succesfull against the Finns in late 90's. so we had to adjust...

A World Junior thread that includes refrences to Marconi and Alexander Graham Bell has obviously taken a serious turn in the wrong direction. Hard to salvage it after that.

:clap: But it kind of starts with the thread title...

Wrong! Can't really beat the referee and the officials. The count I made after carefully studying the game was Russia should have had 16 penalty minutes and Canada 30 instead of 20 and 14. Russian team was fine until the ref interefered and started giving phantom calls and not notice canadian penalties. Russia should not change a thing in their game.

The count I carefully took had Russia getting 400 penalty minutes and Canada having zero.

But you're right, Russia shouldn't change their game if they're happy getting blown out.

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae408.cfm



http://www.privateline.com/TelephoneHistory/History1.htm


Why am I not surprised?


I hope you read that link carefully, did you? You can also drum it up on Wiki to expand your horizons. I was certainly stretching it a bit as there was no single inventor of TV, but it was rather imprudent of you to bring up something which can be even marginally true. But enough of this BS, as the previous poster noted this is getting pathetic... I am done

The count I carefully took had Russia getting 400 penalty minutes and Canada having zero.

But you're right, Russia shouldn't change their game if they're happy getting blown out.

This is the embodyment of a phenomenon of a sore winner

I was certainly stretching it a bit as there was no single inventor of TV.

Which is exactly why I posted the link.

I am done


Me too. This is getting silly.

I like this site:

http://www.geocities.com/canadavsrussia/stats.html

it settles the USSR-Canada argument, kind of, in that ... it was a tie

I think this thread has gone about as far as it can go.

Closed.