TSN made the game unwatchable

The job TSN did on the last couple of Canada's games is absolutely terrible. Hard fought games against tough gritty opponents became unwatchable with the amount of whining that has been on. Non-stop whining by P. Mcguire absolutely ruined the experience of watching these games.

I agree.. Extremely biased broadcasting.

What did u expect? It's a hockey tourney in Canada. Canadians aren't that much keen on any one else's hockey programs these days. If Canada wins agian it will be one of the greatest games of all time, if Russia wins it will be a mediocre tourney ruined by the refs.

Watch it on RDS if you can, the sound is less good but you have 2 second in advance on TSN ... And I think the brodcast team have done a great job lately.

I expected decent officiating. Is that too much I suppose. The announcers were complaining about the calls going both ways, thus about officiating in general, not in Canada's favour. :shakehead

What do you want them to talk about? The officiating has overshadowed the play in this tournament. God only knows what will happen in the olympics...

What did u expect? It's a hockey tourney in Canada. Canadians aren't that much keen on any one else's hockey programs these days. If Canada wins agian it will be one of the greatest games of all time, if Russia wins it will be a mediocre tourney ruined by the refs.

No, it will be a mediocre team that won a mediocre tournament that was ruined by mediocre refs. Rather mediocre all around:D

You know, this can only go on for so long before they do something about it. It's literally painful to listen to.

For now, just hit mute and crank up the radiohead

I expected decent officiating. Is that too much I suppose. The announcers were complaining about the calls going both ways, thus about officiating in general, not in Canada's favour. :shakehead

I mean they are being strict but it's like that for everybody. There were 45+ penalty mins in the Russia-Slovakia game yesterday.

It's not like the Can-Rus game in 2005 in Austria. Now that was some ****ed up officiating.

I think they will get more lax in the playoffs tho.

The officiating has been dreadful for all teams in this tournament and there is a lots complaining about the calls in general not just against the Canadians. It is the first experience for these refs trying to call zero-tolerance games and it shows.

At least TSN is carrying it in HD, I would watch Bert & Ernie call a game if it meant HiDef over standard broadcast.

If there's something more prominent to talk about, let's here it. They're trying this style of officiating and it's ruining the game, imo. I believe there to be 30 penalties,give or take in this game alone.

But if you don't want to listen, there's this thing called the MUTE button ;)

The officiating has been dreadful for all teams in this tournament and there is a lots complaining about the calls in general not just against the Canadians. It is the first experience for these refs trying to call zero-tolerance games and it shows.

At least TSN is carrying it in HD, I would watch Bert & Ernie call a game if it meant HiDef over standard broadcast.

High def rules! I don't know about watching Bert and Ernie though, they're kinda creepy ;)

High def rules! I don't know about watching Bert and Ernie though, they're kinda creepy ;)


you wouldn't be watching...only listening :D

I mean they are being strict but it's like that for everybody. There were 45+ penalty mins in the Russia-Slovakia game yesterday.


Nobody's saying otherwise. You're the one who brought nationality into this. The level of officiating in this tournament has been pathetic, as TSN has justifiably pointed out in all the games I've seen.

you wouldn't be watching...only listening :D

:biglaugh: Now that would be hilarious to hear, Bert being all negative to Ernie's positive spin on everything

The job TSN did on the last couple of Canada's games is absolutely terrible. Hard fought games against tough gritty opponents became unwatchable with the amount of whining that has been on. Non-stop whining by P. Mcguire absolutely ruined the experience of watching these games.

agree

and I'm also part of it because I also whine at the coaches, McGuire, people booing the refs and so on. I'd much rather talk about Russell and other guys but anyway, things are the way they are and hopefully McGuire will calm down and talk of the game next time.

What did u expect? It's a hockey tourney in Canada. Canadians aren't that much keen on any one else's hockey programs these days. If Canada wins agian it will be one of the greatest games of all time, if Russia wins it will be a mediocre tourney ruined by the refs.
Thats kinda silly. Why do you bring nationalistic crap into it? Must be because Russia has been crap on the world stage for ages now I guess, so you need to whine about something other than your wretched national program (how do you like that irrelevent, inflammatory quid pro quo rhetoric ?).
On a serious note, try watching the broacast & the game. The TSN crew complains about all the officiating, not just its effect on Canada.

The job TSN did on the last couple of Canada's games is absolutely terrible. Hard fought games against tough gritty opponents became unwatchable with the amount of whining that has been on. Non-stop whining by P. Mcguire absolutely ruined the experience of watching these games.

absolutely right, the past 2 games he's done nothing but cry about the officiating. Say it once, fine, but not ALL THE TIME! Even if the game is competitive, it makes it seem like crap cus McGuire is focusing in on the referee over what the actual players are doing. I hope someone tells him to shut up about it soon (c'mon Gord, I know you've read this board in the past....)

Its funny, cus between all his whining, McGuire came up with probably the best comment I've heard him say this tournament. He spoke about the "stop and go" when Team Canada is at its own blueline, and why its important to stop and not glide a bit (Chipchura did it on the PK, and McGuire called him out). Well, at least I thought it was an excellent comment, since I had never thought about that.

What did u expect? It's a hockey tourney in Canada. Canadians aren't that much keen on any one else's hockey programs these days. If Canada wins agian it will be one of the greatest games of all time, if Russia wins it will be a mediocre tourney ruined by the refs.
This is b.s,nothing but cage rattling,and totally unproductive to the problem this tourney is having so far.Who wants to see 500 penalties?please tell me,who wants that?maybe thats the hockey you grew up with but i sure did'nt.it screws the games,makes them unwatcheable.We are to be ENTERTAINED BY GOOD HOCKEY,not a basketball game where a guy is on the line shooting foul-shots every two times down the court.

You know the difference.The games so far have been at best mediocore to watch and at worst,a flat out stinker like tonight.There has to be some common sense in calling the games.I know they are new to the no tolerance stuff but it's out of hand.I don't want them messing the games up,it's too good a sport when it's played and reffed correctly to be ruined by a penalty fest.

The paying customers, who weren't watching or listening to TSN, will tell you that the officiating in this tournament is ruining it for them. And I generally take the word of someone who is shelling out big money to watch it. The IIHF is attempting to implement a radically new officiating system (zero tolerance) for the very first time in this tournament and the results are predictable. The NHL went to zero tolerance but spent countless man hours and dollars on education for the players, coaches, managers and even the fans. The NHL, whatever you think of it, has an infrastructure in place to work with the officials. These guys doing games here have basically been given a new standard and away they go. Trust me, the fans who have paid big money to watch this tournament are very, very disgruntled with what they are seeing.

The viewing enjoyment of many of the games, and not just those involving Canada, has been greatly diminished. The fans in the building today were booing calls made against Norway and for anyone who is trying to suggest Gord or Pierre or myself or anyone else on TSN was whining about calls against Canada, our over the air assessments were across the board for both teams. IMHO, the only whining I hear is coming on here after a game and getting the predictable yet groundless accusations of homerism. But, hey, that's just me. :rant:

I said going in that this tournament was going to be interesting because it was being used as a IIHF guinea pig for the Olympics. If you guys think the noise coming out of here is loud over the WJC game calling, wait until Turin because if this is a hint of things to come, well, you ain't seen or heard nothin yet. :D

Oh, yeah, by the way, 53 penalties in tonight's game. WJC one-game record for both teams in a game involving Canada. Old record was 27. Tied the record for most penalties, both teams, in a one period of a game involving Canada (14). :shakehead

I do read these boards sometimes ;)

The officiating has been appalling and you know it isn't just sour grapes because Canada is 3-0.
I applaud the IIHF wanting to take obstruction out of the game, but, for God's sake, stop trying to take physical contact out of the game. Hockey is a contact sport, not figure skating. Let them play hockey.

Bravo Bob.

The job TSN did on the last couple of Canada's games is absolutely terrible. Hard fought games against tough gritty opponents became unwatchable with the amount of whining that has been on. Non-stop whining by P. Mcguire absolutely ruined the experience of watching these games.

No, the refs ruined the experience of the game, what was it, 40 penalties, what else are they supposed to talk about, there is a penalty a minute, nothing was gritty about any of those games, Canada was getting penalties for hitting, so was the other team, it was stupid.

Its just another failure by the IIHF to get some decent refs.

:bow: Bob MacKenzie :bow:

The paying customers, who weren't watching or listening to TSN, will tell you that the officiating in this tournament is ruining it for them. And I generally take the word of someone who is shelling out big money to watch it. The IIHF is attempting to implement a radically new officiating system (zero tolerance) for the very first time in this tournament and the results are predictable. The NHL went to zero tolerance but spent countless man hours and dollars on education for the players, coaches, managers and even the fans. The NHL, whatever you think of it, has an infrastructure in place to work with the officials. These guys doing games here have basically been given a new standard and away they go. Trust me, the fans who have paid big money to watch this tournament are very, very disgruntled with what they are seeing.

The viewing enjoyment of many of the games, and not just those involving Canada, has been greatly diminished. The fans in the building today were booing calls made against Norway and for anyone who is trying to suggest Gord or Pierre or myself or anyone else on TSN was whining about calls against Canada, our over the air assessments were across the board for both teams. IMHO, the only whining I hear is coming on here after a game and getting the predictable yet groundless accusations of homerism. But, hey, that's just me. :rant:

I said going in that this tournament was going to be interesting because it was being used as a IIHF guinea pig for the Olympics. If you guys think the noise coming out of here is loud over the WJC game calling, wait until Turin because if this is a hint of things to come, well, you ain't seen or heard nothin yet. :D

Oh, yeah, by the way, 53 penalties in tonight's game. WJC one-game record for both teams in a game involving Canada. Old record was 27. Tied the record for most penalties, both teams, in a one period of a game involving Canada (14). :shakehead
I totally absolutely 100% agree Bob.That is all i can say.These people pay a lot of money for these tickets for what is usually great hockey and KNOW what great hockey is and they are not seeing it,plain and simple.

You make a good point that the IIHF did'nt work with these poor guys to get them up to speed and thats certainly not their fault i'll agree.But there is a problem and it's ending up in thouroughly unenjoyable hockey and thats the exact opposite of what we are used to seeing in this great tournament.It's a shame,every game i've watched so far has been so below par because of the overabundance and vaildity of calls.I hope it ends soon.I am so excited for Saturdays U.S-Canada game win or lose but i fear we are not going to see it in it's great form if this keeps on and that would be such a shame because it normally would be just a super game.

Take obstruction out of the game - good lord there was very little obstruction to begin with in any sanctioned IHF tournament because hitting was/is frowned upon. Now you cannot even breath on your opponent!

Lets please stop with this BS call everything crap and lets get back to the real game.

BTW as an American, I can only DREAM of having access to TSN and the wonderful job they do!

Yeah, i was at both swiss and norway games, so i didn't have to hear Pierre or Gord (i saw him goin nuts in the box a few times though :P)

And yeah. It was still almost unwatchable. The hockey was EXCELLENT during five on five play, but when some idiot calls 50 penalties a game it just ruins it. I've never booed a ref or linesman so much in my life.

On another note, who loves the LUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCC chants we got going for our boy Bourdon. Cant he play for the canucks NOW PLEASE?? (i know, i know...)

All I am saying is that i dont hear too many Russian fans complaining about it even though we had 45+ in our last game and 45 in this game against Latvia and the 3rd has just begun. This is the juniors, so the refs are more strict. I mean lack of officiating is not good either. Just watch some of the 1991 Juniors games. In fact watch the gold medal Can vs USSR game you see how bad it is when it goes the other way.

I think everyone is just blowing this a bit out of proportion. This is still the prelims. It'll get better.

I do read these boards sometimes ;)
Well you came on a hot night :) man,people are upset with the quality of the product.

I agree that the officiating has been horrible in the two USA games I've seen via Center Ice, but I will also say that I was even more annoyed by the TSN announcers going on and on and on and on about it.

We get it, please talk about something else like the fantastic players.

The paying customers, who weren't watching or listening to TSN, will tell you that the officiating in this tournament is ruining it for them. And I generally take the word of someone who is shelling out big money to watch it. The IIHF is attempting to implement a radically new officiating system (zero tolerance) for the very first time in this tournament and the results are predictable. The NHL went to zero tolerance but spent countless man hours and dollars on education for the players, coaches, managers and even the fans. The NHL, whatever you think of it, has an infrastructure in place to work with the officials. These guys doing games here have basically been given a new standard and away they go. Trust me, the fans who have paid big money to watch this tournament are very, very disgruntled with what they are seeing.

The viewing enjoyment of many of the games, and not just those involving Canada, has been greatly diminished. The fans in the building today were booing calls made against Norway and for anyone who is trying to suggest Gord or Pierre or myself or anyone else on TSN was whining about calls against Canada, our over the air assessments were across the board for both teams. IMHO, the only whining I hear is coming on here after a game and getting the predictable yet groundless accusations of homerism. But, hey, that's just me. :rant:

I said going in that this tournament was going to be interesting because it was being used as a IIHF guinea pig for the Olympics. If you guys think the noise coming out of here is loud over the WJC game calling, wait until Turin because if this is a hint of things to come, well, you ain't seen or heard nothin yet. :D

Oh, yeah, by the way, 53 penalties in tonight's game. WJC one-game record for both teams in a game involving Canada. Old record was 27. Tied the record for most penalties, both teams, in a one period of a game involving Canada (14). :shakehead


You have some valid points but couple of things: IIHF is not a business corporation, they get very little profit from the actual attendance so I am not so sure that IIHF will be adjusting to what the customers paying big bucks are saying. Also, TSN whining was not about IIHF new officiating mainly, their whining was about the person who officiated the game. They called this guy everything they officially could on TV, this was just embarassing to listen how Mcguire dissed the guy all game long.

What did u expect? It's a hockey tourney in Canada. Canadians aren't that much keen on any one else's hockey programs these days. If Canada wins agian it will be one of the greatest games of all time, if Russia wins it will be a mediocre tourney ruined by the refs.
Why the heck do you always bring race into the mix?!? You Russians are getting on my nerve! I had nothing against Russians going into this tournament then a bunch of you guys just can't stop whining about Canadians. I know everything in Canada is wrong and we're not as perfect as Russia. You have to forgive us, we're simply just inferior, I bow to you my Russian Masters :bow:.

All I am saying is that i dont hear too many Russian fans complaining about it even though we had 45+ in our last game and 45 in this game against Latvia and the 3rd has just begun. This is the juniors, so the refs are more strict. I mean lack of officiating is not good either. Just watch some of the 1991 Juniors games. In fact watch the gold medal Can vs USSR game you see how bad it is when it goes the other way.

I think everyone is just blowing this a bit out of proportion. This is still the prelims. It'll get better.
well if they are'nt they should be.What's been going on isn't hockey.

I sure hope you are right about them tucking it in soon.

And on that note, I am on my way. Glad everyone has strong opinions (although some are obviously more reasonable than others). Try not to get personal folks, it's when these boards go astray.

The paying customers, who weren't watching or listening to TSN, will tell you that the officiating in this tournament is ruining it for them. And I generally take the word of someone who is shelling out big money to watch it. The IIHF is attempting to implement a radically new officiating system (zero tolerance) for the very first time in this tournament and the results are predictable. The NHL went to zero tolerance but spent countless man hours and dollars on education for the players, coaches, managers and even the fans. The NHL, whatever you think of it, has an infrastructure in place to work with the officials. These guys doing games here have basically been given a new standard and away they go. Trust me, the fans who have paid big money to watch this tournament are very, very disgruntled with what they are seeing.

The viewing enjoyment of many of the games, and not just those involving Canada, has been greatly diminished. The fans in the building today were booing calls made against Norway and for anyone who is trying to suggest Gord or Pierre or myself or anyone else on TSN was whining about calls against Canada, our over the air assessments were across the board for both teams. IMHO, the only whining I hear is coming on here after a game and getting the predictable yet groundless accusations of homerism. But, hey, that's just me. :rant:

I said going in that this tournament was going to be interesting because it was being used as a IIHF guinea pig for the Olympics. If you guys think the noise coming out of here is loud over the WJC game calling, wait until Turin because if this is a hint of things to come, well, you ain't seen or heard nothin yet. :D

Oh, yeah, by the way, 53 penalties in tonight's game. WJC one-game record for both teams in a game involving Canada. Old record was 27. Tied the record for most penalties, both teams, in a one period of a game involving Canada (14). :shakehead

I agree that the refereeing has been horrible and has ruined the games so far, and I'm sure the two posters how spoke of the telecast being biased/homeristic did not even watch the game on TSN.

Personally, I tune in to the games to watch Canada's future stars play, and I prefer listening to expert analysis into how the players are doing, rather than how the referee called the game, that's all my point was. The calls were bogus, that's true and the commentators should call it as such, but once that's done I hope that the attention is turned back to the players.

It just makes it worse when I'm trying to follow the penalty kill and all that I hear is how the referee is ruining the game (and not how the Canadians are playing, or how the Norwegians are playing). I tried the MUTE button, but without the sounds of the game it somehow doesn't feel right. That's all.

I agree that the officiating has been horrible in the two USA games I've seen via Center Ice, but I will also say that I was even more annoyed by the TSN announcers going on and on and on and on about it.

We get it, please talk about something else like the fantastic players.
I think they would do that if the refs would let them show their stuff.I'd have a hard time pulling fantastic plays out to brag about the players because the game calling won't allow them to get into a traditional ryhthm where the best plays from these great players naturally come about.
i don't know what i'd talk about if i were them,you can only dissect power play and penalty kiling tactics and where the players came from and played their minor hockey so much.Their has to be FLOW to get the best out of the players and the game itself.Thats the way hockey is,it's better and at it's best when intense and moving along.

Why the heck do you always bring race into the mix?!? You Russians are getting on my nerve! I had nothing against Russians going into this tournament and a bunch of you guys just can't stop whining about Canadians. I know everything in Canada is wrong and we're not as perfect as Russia. You have to forgive us, we're simply just inferior, I bow to you my Russian Masters :bow:.

:biglaugh: Oh no...do we need to bring back the "Nyet, nyet Soviet, Da, da, Canada" chant?

Um, it was a 1972 thing, perhaps I'm dating myself :D

I have to say that for the first time I turned the game off and went watched the WHL on a webcast instead. Sorry but that many penalties is ridiculous and it made the game unwatchable. Whether or not the TSN guys were whining about it or not that game was a disgrace.

Can you imagine in one of the most anticipated games of the year this Saturday having 40+ penalties? Sorry but I dont want to watch that.

Honestly, they are just telling it like it is.

If you watched the broadcast and actually listened, Gord and Pierre weren't just saying "Oh Canada is getting robbed, oh these big bad refs are out to stop Canada." They were complaining for both sides.

Sure they spent a lot of time complaining during the broadcast. But you know what? If I was commentating I would have had a hard time not doing the same. I was getting so frustrated by the ref, that any enjoyment I would have gotten out of that game was ruined then and there. I didn't use to be a huge fan of Pierre's commentating, but I've really come around on the guy. I'd much rather have someone as passionate about the game of hockey, like Pierre, then some stiff with zero emotion. And when you get someone like Pierre who does seem to wear his heart on his sleeve and speaks through emotion, you are going to get games like this where hes going to get just as frustrated as any one of us did during the game and lose focus on the game itself.

I've seen the arguments on this thread about the commentating and how they should have spent more time focusing on the game itself and how good the players were and yadada, instead of the officiating. But you know what? THAT was the game. The official made himself bigger then the players himself. He didn't really give Gord and Pierre much to talk about besides the officiating. With a penalty occuring, what every 2 minutes or so, what else are they supposed to talk about. Pierre starts talking about how good of a forechecker Steve Downie is and BAM a penalty is called. Then its the job of the commentating team to explain the penalty and examine it. 30+ penalties called in the game, thats a lot of examining and explaining to do. What on earth do you expect them to talk about?

This board kills me sometimes, it really does.

I find it interesting that the refs who are doing what they've been told to do are being so brutally disrespected. It's obvious that since they are all doing it that it is not one rogue cop. They have their instructions and they are following orders.

I'm somewhat torn. I can see where the games could get out of hand if allowed to as there is so much on the line. Those who will do anything physically to win should not be able to terrorize the rest. But a bit of give and go would be nice.

Who has authority to modify the no tolerance rule? Also who defines the criteria that would be followed if such a modification were to be made? :hockey:

Must be because Russia has been crap on the world stage for ages now I guess, so you need to whine about something other than your wretched national program

What do you mean wretched national program??????

Russia has, arguably, been the most successful program at the junior level this decade. What kind of wretched program produces players like Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Frolov, etc.?
The only reason they've not been dominant at the senior level is that the ex-Soviet players rarely give a care. Even with that, they're the only country to have won a medal in both the past 2 olympics.

As one of those customers paying big dollars, I'm glad TSN is talking a lot about the officiating. It is horrendous, it is ruining the hockey, and quite frankly it is both embarassing to the IIHF and a disgrace to this tournament. The more attention this atrocity receives the better, because it might wake someone up and maybe the refs will start doing their jobs correctly, instead of trying to enforce an absolutely RIDICULOUS zero tolerance standard which is both poorly planned and highly unrealisitic. Maybe this isn't the fault of the referees themselves, but when it comes down to it, I don't care whose fault it is, because it's disgusting. Sure, maybe it's tough on the refs to be reamed out constantly because of something that might not be completely their fault, but it sure is a whole lot more unfair that these talented kids are having a once in a life time opportunity ruined by some farcical officiating standard. Like I said, the more attention the better because maybe it will help the IIHF realize that something needs to change.

:biglaugh: Oh no...do we need to bring back the "Nyet, nyet Soviet, Da, da, Canada" chant?

Um, it was a 1972 thing, perhaps I'm dating myself :D

I think that stopped after the whooping in the 1974 Summit Series ;)




Also i would like to add that although we get miffed at each other from time to time it shouldn't be taken personally and that the fact that we care enough to get heated and argue just shows how awesome this sport really is :)

I am also one of those customers. I paid 1200 dollars for my tickets. I am a fan of Canada but above all I am a fan of hockey. What I saw tonight was not hockey. It was a discrace, an absolute joke and if anyone thinks differently they don't understand the game of hockey. I am glad PM and GM complained about it because this needs some serious attention. If this continues there are going to be alot of pissed off fans (no doubt there already are). I want to see a good hockey game on Saturday night, and if this **** continues I am writing a letter to the tournement sponsor and demanding my money back.
:madfire:

I am also one of those customers. I paid 1200 dollars for my tickets. I am a fan of Canada but above all I am a fan of hockey. What I saw tonight was not hockey. It was a discrace, an absolute joke and if anyone thinks differently they don't understand the game of hockey. I am glad PM and GM complained about it because this needs some serious attention. If this continues there are going to be alot of pissed off fans (no doubt there already are). I want to see a good hockey game on Saturday night, and if this **** continues I am writing a letter to the tournement sponsor and demanding my money back.
:madfire:

The funniest post of the day! On a serious note, are the tickets that expensive? I think Hockey Canada is just ripping off the hockey fans.

Now THAT is a post. Bravo Bob.

You should write for a website or somthing. No seriously. :sarcasm:

Non-stop whining by P. Mcguire absolutely ruined the experience of watching these games.
I know. The refeering was bad, but don't keep going on about it

Guys, look back at the NHL in it's first few weeks back from the lockout. We had about the same amount of penalties in every game and an insane amount of powerplays which vastly inflated the amount of goals scored.

Now, as Bob said, this is the first tournament that IIHF is trying out the zero tolerance refereeing so obviously it's going to take some time to oil this machine. As long as all the teams are having the same problem, we are still on the same level field.

Also, not only is it the first time that the refs have to do this, but this is also the first time for the players. Hopefully the players will also learn about what is allowed and what isn't in the remaining round robin games and then show us some discipline in the playoffs.

I do read these boards sometimes ;)well you know....it's not like you guys have anything better to talk about anyways ;) :D C'mon, it's hockey, damn it! If there wasn't *****ing and complaining, there wouldn't be a need for comentators. Read the word, people: COMENTATORS. they give their oppinions....that's what these people are paid to do! :p:

McGuire says on the air he won't address the officiating anymore, than one minute later he saids he can't hold it in anymore. Hmm.

The good thing is he didn't mention Phaneuf or Parise this time. :sarcasm:

I mean they are being strict but it's like that for everybody. There were 45+ penalty mins in the Russia-Slovakia game yesterday.

It's not like the Can-Rus game in 2005 in Austria. Now that was some ****ed up officiating.

I think they will get more lax in the playoffs tho.


45+ mins each team (Slovakia getting more than that I think) with Canadian refs... I dont like the Euopeans getting plamed for too many penalties. The IIHF decided it would call everything like the NHL, and they will. The players will have to adjust or practise that penalty kill.

The TSN announcers are making the game painful indeed. If any of you guys reads this, please please enough whinning... you guys are supposed to be entertaining and not the main event but an enchancement to the game.

Yea, he has Toews now. :sarcasm:

Thats kinda silly. Why do you bring nationalistic crap into it? Must be because Russia has been crap on the world stage for ages now I guess, so you need to whine about something other than your wretched national program (how do you like that irrelevent, inflammatory quid pro quo rhetoric ?).
On a serious note, try watching the broacast & the game. The TSN crew complains about all the officiating, not just its effect on Canada.


You, sir, dont know what you're talking about. Please refer to Zine's post: the man knows his stuff.

Disgustingly awful officiating is making this entire tournament unwatchable.

McGuire just subtracts from the experience even more.

Thats kinda silly. Why do you bring nationalistic crap into it? Must be because Russia has been crap on the world stage for ages now I guess, so you need to whine about something other than your wretched national program (how do you like that irrelevent, inflammatory quid pro quo rhetoric ?).
On a serious note, try watching the broacast & the game. The TSN crew complains about all the officiating, not just its effect on Canada.

That's like Sammy. I guess some thing never change. Your Russia bashing is an acute desease by now. Get a life, concenrate on Canada's play or smth.

I was just reading comments on TSN page and am quite surprised how many people are manipulated by Pierre McGuire because those people are like parrots repeating whatever Mcguire said during the game.

No, we've had major issues with European referees for some time now. McGuire just says it louder than most.

I think that the IIHF is overlooking several factors in using the 2006 World Junior Championships as their proverbial guinea pig for zero tolerance of obstruction.

One fact that was pointed out was that the NHL referees were given extensive instruction, as were teams and players about how the game would be called.

I think, though, the IIHF is overlooking the amount of time between the WJC's and Olympics. Are these referees going to carry over these attitudes and adjustments over the span of nearly two months in order to call Olympic games in the same manner?

Secondly, the learning curve for IIHF referees in this tournament isn't significant. They've got to get it right - and right away. NHL referees had a preseason to adjust, nevermind a grace period once the regular season started. NHL referees had the chance to work out the 'kinks' in what are perceived to be non-important, early regular season games. In this tournament, every game is important, every game is do-or-die.

That's why the referees are getting buried in scrutiny and criticism. They are learning in games that are directly affecting the outcome of the tournament.

I can't comment on what Gord and Pierre are doing on their broadcast because I'm at the event itself for Hockey's Future right now.

But with that said, they SHOULD be talking about it constantly. The officiating has been disgraceful. Today's game was beyond unbearable. I am willing to bet that very few people left the game feeling they got their money's worth.

Down in the Media Centre, EVERY single media person was ranting about what happened out there. If Gord and Pierre, and the other TSN personalities for that matter, are talking a lot about it, it's because it is the dominant story of this tournament. It would be nice to say that the kids are the feature, but right now, they quite simply aren't.

i've always said tsn.ca doesn't know how to do hockey well,... bias is its middle name

pro-Leafs or pro-Crosby or pro-pro-pro... a bunch of cheerleaders and whiners

Ok... as a member of the "paying public" that shelled out the coin for the package to attend all of the WJC games, who has gone to all of the games played in Vancouver so far - including Switzerland vs. Norway - and hasn't really had the benefit of watching any of the games on TSN for obvious reasons, all I have to say is that mandate or no... the reffing has been absolutely atrocious.

In my honest belief, the only reason why the US beat the Fins last night was because of the officiating. I'm not saying that the Americans didn't deserve the win or didn't play well, but the calls were decidedly one-sided, and in one instance - and those of you that were watching the game can correct me if I'm wrong since I didn't have the benefit of instant replay - their goal shouldn't have counted because it was offside... a US player was trapped behind the hash marks in the Finnish end, the puck being broken out of the zone was turned over - on the *neutral zone side* of the blueline and passed back into the zone to the offside player. A couple of plays later... score.

Want another example? In the US/Norway game, the US had too many men on the ice - they had a man in the box - but the play went on for a full minute or so while both the crowd and the Norwegian bench were yelling and pointing up at the scoreboard to indicate the time left on the penalty. And while any goal the US would have scored probably wouldn't have counted, it killed valuable time on the clock on what was supposed to be a Norway man advantage.

As for tonights game, it was, and I hate to say it as a guy who loves the sport, it was boring as hell! There was absolutely no flow to the game whatsoever. And as Bob had mentioned in his post, it got to the point where the crowd wasn't just booing the calls made on the Canadians, but the calls on the Norwegians as well. Players were afraid to make simple plays and hit... because everytime a player rubbed a guy out along the boards while in a scrum or made a big hit, it was a holding call, or a charging call... hell a couple of players inadvertantly collided going up the ice and because Canada had posession, it was an interference call.

You can tell it was frustrating for the players as well, as was evident by the small scrum that broke out at the end of the game.

Dammit! Just let them play! :madfire:

So Bob and Gord are already posting here?

I sure hope TSN gets a keyboard without caps lock if Pierre ever decides to start posting...

No, we've had major issues with European referees for some time now.

So why can't Canada adjust their game to what is being called? It's only been 20 years of knowing what to expect.

BTW, if it was a Canadian or an American in today's game, it would have been the same. You know why? Because the IIHF says so.

We all shook our heads at a lot of the calls today, and in the first few days of this tournament. Even me. The IIHF is hardening its already tight standard of officiating. International play never really had much obstruction, unless you play the Swiss or the Germans, and they're trying to cut down on what really isn't there. That's why we're seeing such poor calls this week. The IIHF simply didn't need to change anything. It wasn't broken, yet they decided to fix it. It's Rene Fasel's obsession with being everything the NHL is, and the IIHF isn't.

That said, instead of blaming the referees (as I've seen elsewhere, not just here), the finger should be pointed at the IIHF. The guys on the ice are just doing what they're told. Their goal is to get the best assignments in the medal rounds, and the way to get those assignments is to please your supervisors.

i've always said tsn.ca doesn't know how to do hockey well,... bias is its middle name

pro-Leafs or pro-Crosby or pro-pro-pro... a bunch of cheerleaders and whiners

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
ignore him. ;)

TSN is the only channel I watch for comprehensive hockey coverage./suckup

As for the Sidney stuff, they only show it because the majority of people want to see it. That is just how TV works.

I also want to give some support for Pierre Mcguire. I was sitting near him at the Canada/Finland game, and he has to be the most passionate color man I have ever seen. He was flailing his arms around the entire game. He gets very excited at times, but man does he know his hockey well. He makes games that much more interesting to watch, especially when sticks are breaking. :)

If anyone could answer me, with the Spengler Cup being back on, why did Romanuk stop doing TSN NHL games? Did he simply leave the station, or what?

i've always said tsn.ca doesn't know how to do hockey well,... bias is its middle name

pro-Leafs or pro-Crosby or pro-pro-pro... a bunch of cheerleaders and whiners

I always thought our middle name was "sports"...shows what I know.

Goodnight everyone...try to get along now.

The TSN announcers are making the game painful indeed. If any of you guys reads this, please please enough whinning... you guys are supposed to be entertaining and not the main event but an enchancement to the game.

Announcers, by and large, reflect the game they are doing. If it's an exciting game, the announcers are excited. If it's a poorly played game with a lot of mistakes, you're likely going to hear more critical analysis. If you thought the announcing was painful, let me assure you as someone who was in the building, it was no more painful than the game itself. Read the posts from the people who paid good money to go see the game. The officiating was such a story and distraction in this game that it was the main event.

You want someone to gild the lily, you're going to have to go elsewhere. In a record-setting penalty game that had the majority of fans howling, literally, with outrage from almost start to finish, we're going to give it the treatment it deserved. Whether you like it or not, whatever your opinion of TSN or the people who work for it, I can honestly say in my 27 years in the business, I've never seen anything quite like the level of fan disenchantment with the quality of play in the games at the Pacific Coliseum so far. And that includes the non-Canadian games, which by the way, have been incredibly attended with terrific support for the visiting teams (except the U.S. :D ) In fact, the fan support and fan reaction to the non-Canadian teams has been, by far, the best I've ever seen at the WJC and I've been to 15 of the last 20.

Every coach, every head of the respective national delegations here are out of their mind with the way things have unfolded. Historically, European coaches/managers etc. have been very understanding of the vagaries of officiating, but when you see enraged coaches of these teams trying to find the referee's room after the game, you know something is severely out of whack. But if you want to believe that all of this is a fabrication or exaggeration by some pro-Canadian hockey cult, be my guest, but the truth is the primary story of the 2006 WJC, to this point, is the officiating.

Case closed.

I hate to sound like an echo or fanboy for the folks from TSN, but I think that there are a few people who just don't recognize how big of a problem this really is.

The story of this tournament IS the officiating.

If Hockey's Future did game reports, I would be writing about the referees more than the players. Fortunately our niche is profile/feature-based, so it doesn't effect what I'm doing, but TSN is not the only people trumpeting this issue. ALL of the media is. None of the media are talking about "did you see that move so and so did," or "do you think Erik Johnson can overtake Jonathan Toews?"

It's "did you see that call" or "the penalty on that hit," etc.

It's sad for the people who spent thousands on tickets to the entire event, the fans watching at home and for the players who are supposed to be the stars of this show. It's turning people off. This is my first time covering an event the size of the World Juniors and I've been excited about this opportunity basically since Vancouver was announced the host. And today, for a Canada game at that, I was completely disinterested by midway through the second period.

And guess what the topic of every single post-game media scrum was? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the score.

When this happens in Turin, we're going to hear nothing about the games, just the refs. The hockey in this tournament has been really hard to watch, unless you love special teams play.

I hate to sound like an echo or fanboy for the folks from TSN, but I think that there are a few people who just don't recognize how big of a problem this really is.

The story of this tournament IS the officiating.

If Hockey's Future did game reports, I would be writing about the referees more than the players. Fortunately our niche is profile/feature-based, so it doesn't effect what I'm doing, but TSN is not the only people trumpeting this issue. ALL of the media is. None of the media are talking about "did you see that move so and so did," or "do you think Erik Johnson can overtake Jonathan Toews?"

It's "did you see that call" or "the penalty on that hit," etc.

It's sad for the people who spent thousands on tickets to the entire event, the fans watching at home and for the players who are supposed to be the stars of this show. It's turning people off. This is my first time covering an event the size of the World Juniors and I've been excited about this opportunity basically since Vancouver was announced the host. And today, for a Canada game at that, I was completely disinterested by midway through the second period.

And guess what the topic of every single post-game media scrum was? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the score.
ding ding ding! we have a winner! :handclap:

and because a month of learning from DVDs won't get you very far, this is why everyone's so upset right now. You know how some games, you're just so pumped afterwards, and you just don't care what the score was because the game was so damn good? well, this is sorta like that but in the negative....the game was so badly officiated that people just don't give a damn about the score.

you know why everyone's talking about officiating right now? Because that's the big thing, that's why! These guys are paid to give their oppinions on the games, that's what they're there for!

And you know what? If you don't like it, well that's just too bad! It's not their fault officiating is horrible. :nopity: :shakehead

And maybe if anyone here doesn't like what they're hearing, press the freaking MUTE BUTTON, damn it! Hate to sound like a broken record right now, but seriously....you don't like it, fine! nothing you can do about it except to just ignore it ie: not listen, mute, pull out your surround sound system and chuck it out the window....whatever.

Firstly they needed to implement this strict officiating in all leagues so it would give a time to adjust for the referees and for the players. Big, important and short tournaments shouldn't be a field for experiments like that. I think the traditional international style of refereeng is fine without letting much of clutch and grab and I agree with Van that IIHF doesn't really need to change anything.

I wish our tv's came with an option to turn off commentary, I want to hear the sounds of the game.

I can't comment on what Gord and Pierre are doing on their broadcast because I'm at the event itself for Hockey's Future right now.

But with that said, they SHOULD be talking about it constantly. The officiating has been disgraceful. Today's game was beyond unbearable. I am willing to bet that very few people left the game feeling they got their money's worth.

Down in the Media Centre, EVERY single media person was ranting about what happened out there. If Gord and Pierre, and the other TSN personalities for that matter, are talking a lot about it, it's because it is the dominant story of this tournament. It would be nice to say that the kids are the feature, but right now, they quite simply aren't.

I hate to sound like an echo or fanboy for the folks from TSN, but I think that there are a few people who just don't recognize how big of a problem this really is.

The story of this tournament IS the officiating.

If Hockey's Future did game reports, I would be writing about the referees more than the players. Fortunately our niche is profile/feature-based, so it doesn't effect what I'm doing, but TSN is not the only people trumpeting this issue. ALL of the media is. None of the media are talking about "did you see that move so and so did," or "do you think Erik Johnson can overtake Jonathan Toews?"

It's "did you see that call" or "the penalty on that hit," etc.

It's sad for the people who spent thousands on tickets to the entire event, the fans watching at home and for the players who are supposed to be the stars of this show. It's turning people off. This is my first time covering an event the size of the World Juniors and I've been excited about this opportunity basically since Vancouver was announced the host. And today, for a Canada game at that, I was completely disinterested by midway through the second period.

And guess what the topic of every single post-game media scrum was? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the score.



:clap: :clap: :clap:



It's not going to happen, but NHL refs should the be the ones at Turin. There is a reason why these refs are in the NHL, being the best league in the world, and they should use the 2 referee system as well. A big reason why the officiating is so bad is because one ref has to see the entire ice, as opposed to 2 referees who do not. This is why anything chinsy is being called. They'd rather make the call than potentially miss it.

I wish our tv's came with an option to turn off commentary, I want to hear the sounds of the game.

You wouldn't be hearing much...only whistles and the PA announcer announcing the penalties.

There is no justification for calling almost an average of one penalty a minute in a game that wasn't even chippy until the final six seconds. None. The fact we are talking about the officiating, and not the play on the ice, says it all.

As for those Russian posters who want to turn this into an anti-Canadian thread, I can hardly wait until you actually get to see a Russian game in this tournament.

The original poster is bang on. I can deal with bad reffing, or over the years in these kinds of tournaments, reffing that's simply a different kind of standard than what we're used to.

What I can't handle is endless whining about the refs, mocking, or outright insulting by the announcers.

I turned off the game and watched My Name is Earl because of them.

Bob. When TSN will learn, we have enough fans of Russian hockey in Canada. We are a paying public too. Or you want to go the CBC Don Cherry's crying game plan. Start showing some russian hockey!!! Stop ignoring the big part of Canadian society. Hell with you TSN :madfire:

Have you guys been to alot of CHL games this year?
I know the "Dub" hasn't incorperated the obstruction, stick work penalties. But the Q sure has I've been to games where I'm sure everyone with a stick and maybe some others too got a penalty. I think one guy got a penalty for holding his own stick. ;)
If I go to too many tier 2 junior games and then a Q game then the refereeing drives me crazy as the MJAHL refs call the game differently.
I see no more of a problem with the refs at the WJC then I do with the refs in the Q. The poor refs just haven't had the time to reach a level of consistency.
Hell, I 've watched NHL games on the tube where one ref in the same game calls some things and the other ref calls other things. It doesn't matter what the ref's call as long as they are consistent.
Canada has to get over blaming refereeing for bad or unexpected results .
What hockey needs is someone to step forward and say: "We don't care if you play in the NHL or the Guam Elite League. These are the rules and this is what will be called, that's it, that's all, end of story. So NHL please get rid of that trapazoid goalie handling zone. :dunno:

Canada has to get over blaming refereeing for bad or unexpected results .

When are people in this thread going to realize that Canada won and that people in the arena were booing the horrible calls made against team Norway as well? This isn't some Canadian whining over losing or barely winning. This has absolutely nothing to do with Canada and doesn't need to be brought up every two posts. The officiating has been absolutely horrid for every single team so far and I don't care how consistant the calls are (which they actually have not been...all that's consistent with them is that they're consistently bad) being made when none of them make sense. Soon, skating two feet within your check is going to be a penalty and we can watch a game between bubble boys with sticks.

I agree that the officiating has been horrible in the two USA games I've seen via Center Ice, but I will also say that I was even more annoyed by the TSN announcers going on and on and on and on about it.

We get it, please talk about something else like the fantastic players.
What else is there to talk about? Because of the officiating, the hockey sucks. It hurts to watch, beacuse it only comes around once a year.

If I'd known the games were going to be this awful, I probably would have done the less painful thing and beat my own face in with a shovel.

If you ask me, they haven't griped enough about the officiating. Doesn't matter, because the hockey isn't really worth being mentioned, which is pretty sad for such a great tournament.

Bob. When TSN will learn, we have enough fans of Russian hockey in Canada. We are a paying public too. Or you want to go the CBC Don Cherry's crying game plan. Start showing some russian hockey!!! Stop ignoring the big part of Canadian society. Hell with you TSN :madfire:


I'd love to see the Russians too, but the fact is Russia and Canada seem to always play in opposite divisions at the world juniors, meaning in different cities, and you can't be two places at once.

Bob. When TSN will learn, we have enough fans of Russian hockey in Canada. We are a paying public too. Or you want to go the CBC Don Cherry's crying game plan. Start showing some russian hockey!!! Stop ignoring the big part of Canadian society. Hell with you TSN :madfire:
So you didn't understand the first hundred times when you were told why the Russian games weren't being shown?

So why can't Canada adjust their game to what is being called? It's only been 20 years of knowing what to expect.

You're kidding, right? How could any team adapt? Nobody has any clue what to expect from these clowns.

One game you get a ref that generally lets you play. Next game you get a ref where any hit into the boards is considered charging. The next game you get a ref who lets everything go. Then you get a ref who has to be first star. Then you get last night, where the ref caused one of the worst games in hockey history.

Even the Norweigan coach blasted the incompetence of last nights officials, and I doubt Norway plays a Canadian style.

A big bodycheck is not a penalty, even under the IIHF's backwater rules. They often get called because, apparently, Europeans prefer figure skating. Canada does need to adapt, but so too do the referees. Call the damn rulebook properly.

That's like Sammy. I guess some thing never change. Your Russia bashing is an acute desease by now. Get a life, concenrate on Canada's play or smth.
You, Zine & Slitty dont obviously know what"quid pro quo" & "rhetoric' is.
And yes, the Russian program has been in the dumper for awhile. But that was not the reason for my response . I thought that that it was obvious to even those who are not that high on the "food chain" that I was only spewing out nationalistic "rhetoric" in response to to another clown bringing Canada into it & crtisizing us in the process, when it had zero to do with the thread at hand. I obviously expected a little much fron some.

Bob. When TSN will learn, we have enough fans of Russian hockey in Canada. We are a paying public too. Or you want to go the CBC Don Cherry's crying game plan. Start showing some russian hockey!!! Stop ignoring the big part of Canadian society. Hell with you TSN :madfire:
You will need to define a number for "enough fans" before TSN can go out and convince advertisers to buck up for time to sponsor these broadcasts. Capitalism, remember?

Bob. When TSN will learn, we have enough fans of Russian hockey in Canada. We are a paying public too. Or you want to go the CBC Don Cherry's crying game plan. Start showing some russian hockey!!! Stop ignoring the big part of Canadian society. Hell with you TSN :madfire:

The big part of Canadian society is Canadian.

The next biggest part of Canadian society is American.

After that, people of Asian descent.

Russians fall a little ways down the list.

TSN is going to show what is going to make them money. If you have a problem with the lack of Russian coverage, write the IIHF and ask them to look into webcasting of all games.

You, Zine & Slitty dont obviously know what"quid pro quo" & "rhetoric' is.
And yes, the Russian program has been in the dumper for awhile.
Say what? Silver and Bronze in Olympics. Multiple golds in WJ… How is that a dumper? Remind me who beat Canada 3 years in row prior to 2005?

Was watching the game yesterday, and just decided to go out after the second period. That's usually never the case with the WJC, I'm usually glued to the set. I figured this game has no flow, it's beyond boring and Canada is obviously going to win so I left.

My question is, why did they feel a need for a zero tolerance crackdown? Complaints about inconsistency aside, which is always the case in international tournaments because you're getting refs from all around who ref differently from one another, I've always found the WJC and international best-on-best tournaments in general the most exciting hockey of the year. The NHL needed a crackdown because the talent pool is relatively depleted in comparison to say, the Olympics. You have pluggers and goons hooking and pawing for their lives out there and it slows down the game. Usually, when the relative talent level is increased, the game sorts itself out and it's quite a treat, as past WJ tournaments have been.

Instead of trying to improve on the only complaint with regards to international officiating (ie consistency) they've decided to change the rules to make it even more glaring. I hope the Canada-US game is different, but so far none of the matches have been up to the caliber of previous years.

Does anyone think that the wrong teams are winning these games though, because of bad officiating? I don't think they are. It seems bad all over, which at least means an even, if very muddy, playing field.

Does anyone think that the wrong teams are winning these games though, because of bad officiating? I don't think they are. It seems bad all over, which at least means an even, if very muddy, playing field.

I'll stick my hand up for this one.... yes... I think that the officials handed the game to the US the other night vs the Fins. Let's face it, the American squad this year is stacked - so much so that they are considered to be the the favourites to win this tourney.

But when the Fins were up 2-0 in the first, the nature and the timing of the calls against Finland were just mind-boggling. You give a talented squad like the US those kinds of opportunities, they'll kill you everytime... and in fact they did, considering that 5 out of their 6 goals were scored on the PP. Hell... 10 of the 17 goals that they've scored in the tourney so far has been on the PP.

And it *wasn't* just the penalties... it's the phantom icing or offside calls, the blown icing and offside calls - I still contend that the second US goal was offside and shouldn't have counted (though, again, those of you who had the benefit of instant replay at home can correct me if I'm wrong about this) - and some bizzare need by the linesmen to toss a player out of the faceoff dot ... US and Finnish likewise... every. single. time.

Again, I'm not saying that the US didn't deserve to win or played poorly... but, you could tell they came out cocky, they were being outplayed early in the game... badly... and in my honest opinion, if it wasn't for the officiating letting them back into the game, they quite possibly would have been served their dish of humble pie that night.

I was at last night's game. Worst-reffed game I've ever been to. (And I go to 25-30 Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League games per year). I usually am not one to go after the refs, but that was terrible. Several phantom calls + multiple "We Want a Ref" chants = hopes that this nimrod is never seen or heard from again. You expect the heckling after Canada gets a penalty. But by the midway mark of the second period, fans were jeering Norway penalties. The referee could do no right in the eyes of the fans. It's those types of games, too, when the on-ice action tends to get out of hand, too, and probably would have, if Norway wasn't such a small team.

Pierre McGuire WAS talking about the game. The referees WERE the game. It was absolutely ridiculous, and if heads don't roll in the IIHF for the way games are being called thus far, I'm gonna plotz.

As an aside, I would watch a Team Russia game on TSN, if they showed it. I wouldn't care, because it's Russia... but I'd watch it.

It has nothing to do to about whining for Canada..the refs just suck for all the teams, it's a shame for the games. But that's inconsequential to the quality of the TSN brodcasts because Pierre McGuire makes every game unwatchable regardless of the quality of the refs.

I don't know how you think Pierre is biased. He said throughout the game that the ref was horrible for BOTH teams. I was looking forward to this tournament. Like i always do every year but the refs have completely ruined it so far. The IIHF is an absolute joke. I'm impressed that Pierre kept his cool on the mic. I would have been losing it. I have seen better ball hockey games played. This game was ruined by the ref.

Bob, Gord and Pierre do an excellent job and TSN does an outstanding job covering this tournament. I am sick of some people critizing them. Bob and to a lesser extent Gord come on these boards and post and some people just critize them. TSN is not bias. Do they spend more time on Team Canada? Yes. They are broadcasting to Canadians. Why is that so hard to understand for some people. TSN is showing all the medal round games. What more can you ask from them.

I don't know why the IIHF wanted to crak down on the reffing for. They already called it close. I feel sorry for the players and the fans that are paying good money to see these games.

Yes Bob, Gord, Dutch, Burke and TSN all do an excellent Job...Pierre however is unwatchable!

So why can't Canada adjust their game to what is being called? It's only been 20 years of knowing what to expect.

BTW, if it was a Canadian or an American in today's game, it would have been the same. You know why? Because the IIHF says so.

We all shook our heads at a lot of the calls today, and in the first few days of this tournament. Even me. The IIHF is hardening its already tight standard of officiating. International play never really had much obstruction, unless you play the Swiss or the Germans, and they're trying to cut down on what really isn't there. That's why we're seeing such poor calls this week. The IIHF simply didn't need to change anything. It wasn't broken, yet they decided to fix it. It's Rene Fasel's obsession with being everything the NHL is, and the IIHF isn't.

That said, instead of blaming the referees (as I've seen elsewhere, not just here), the finger should be pointed at the IIHF. The guys on the ice are just doing what they're told. Their goal is to get the best assignments in the medal rounds, and the way to get those assignments is to please your supervisors.
I blame both IIHF and the refs. The Czech that reffed the Finland Canada did an amazing job. The other two refs were horrible.

Cmon' how could anyone adapt to these calls. Bourdon pentaly in the third is a perfect example. He crunches a guy no call. A couple of seconds later he does the same thing and the first one was even worse and it's a pentaly. The players shouldn't have to adapt the refs should adapt.

What did u expect? It's a hockey tourney in Canada. Canadians aren't that much keen on any one else's hockey programs these days. If Canada wins agian it will be one of the greatest games of all time, if Russia wins it will be a mediocre tourney ruined by the refs.

If you actually listened to their comments, they were equally discusted with poor pentaties against norway as well. In fact i distincly remeber him saying after a poor call on Norway, "See, it's calls like that that ruin the integrity of the game". Thats all they were complaining about. They already new Canada was going to win, it had nothing to do with Canada. I guarentee if that had happened in a USA game w/ Norway, with the same officiating, the comments woulda been the same.

I always thought our middle name was "sports"...shows what I know.

Goodnight everyone...try to get along now.
You mean it's not called Toronto Sports Net?

TSN's Video feed even for non HDTV is awesome.

I was flipping between the WJC and the habs game last night by FSN and it was a joke. (Centre Ice)

No wonder hockey isn't popular in the US with crappy feeds like that!

I'd also like to see Sweden and Czech games. Webcasting would work for me too.
Heck I'd even watch the U-17's if they were available. :yo:

:shakehead

Please stay on topic.

Not much to add to this except that even if the referees are "the story of the tournament", fine, tell us about it, but please stop whining.

No complaints from me about the game-calling. They're calling a spade a spade. The IIHF better wake up fast!
My only beef with TSN, is that we should be seeing more games live, not tape delayed/next day stuff.
Randy

No complaints from me about the game-calling. They're calling a spade a spade. The IIHF better wake up fast!
My only beef with TSN, is that we should be seeing more games live, not tape delayed/next day stuff.
Randy


thank center ice for the tape delays

You mean it's not called Toronto Sports Net?

um......even then the middle name would be "sports".....I don't think you understood what Gord was saying.......

Overall, sure. In Canada, not so sure.

I think these games are also shown on Centre Ice, so overall, a lot more Americans are potentially watching than Russians.

Like I said, webcasting is the way it's gonna be if games outside of the major host city are ever going to be shown.

When this happens in Turin, we're going to hear nothing about the games, just the refs. The hockey in this tournament has been really hard to watch, unless you love special teams play.
We will have a fairly large serving of NHL referees and NHL players so the quality should be better than what we are seeing now. Teams like Kazakhstan and Italy will no doubt have a tough time with the unfamiliar rules( to them ) along with the fact they will have a hard enough time matching most other teams size and speed.

Bob. When TSN will learn, we have enough fans of Russian hockey in Canada. We are a paying public too. Or you want to go the CBC Don Cherry's crying game plan. Start showing some russian hockey!!! Stop ignoring the big part of Canadian society. Hell with you TSN :madfire:
This poster has to be a joke right? Someone tell me this guy is just doing this to get a laugh or a rise.

It's not going to happen, but NHL refs should the be the ones at Turin. There is a reason why these refs are in the NHL, being the best league in the world, and they should use the 2 referee system as well.


I don't think they're using the 2-ref system in Torino, but there will be 8 NHL referees at the Olympics. That said, they will be enforcing the IIHF rulebook, not the NHL rulebook. Also, in the past two Winter Games, NHL referees had to work games where 50% or more of the players were from the NHL. Not in 2006. It will be a neutral referee working each game. (At least from what I've heard.)

You're kidding, right? How could any team adapt? Nobody has any clue what to expect from these clowns.

When are you going to realize that the clowns are not the guys on the ice, but the guys in the boardroom..most notably Rene Fasel?

I blame both IIHF and the refs. The Czech that reffed the Finland Canada did an amazing job. The other two refs were horrible.


Considering how the calls tightened up after Canada's game against Finland, I get the feeling that the referee didn't get a good evaluation after that game. It's almost as if Fasel is giving the zebras a penalty quota to meet...and when your future calling international games depends on it, you're going to do what you're told.

The IIHF is instructing these officials to call their games as tight as they possibly can. Instead of letting anything borderline go, they're told to call it, thus we see penalties on what should be simple bodychecks. If the IIHF supervisors were to tell the referee from CAN-NOR to loosen up, he would. Unfortunately, the IIHF is highly unlikely to do that.

I'm not stepping up for the referees based on the on-ice product. I'm stepping up for the referees in the sense that they are doing a job, and just like you and me, they have a boss. If you don't do what your boss says, you're going to get the worst assignments, if not canned.

Put yourself in the referees' shoes. Rene Fasel calls a meeting and tells you to call the tightest games you have ever called, or else. What would you do?

We will have a fairly large serving of NHL referees and NHL players so the quality should be better than what we are seeing now. Teams like Kazakhstan and Italy will no doubt have a tough time with the unfamiliar rules( to them ) along with the fact they will have a hard enough time matching most other teams size and speed.
I've only seen the American games on Center Ice, and the officiating was pretty poor in those games, so I can only imagine how bad the Canadian game last night was. Italy's going to have the worst time in the Olympics, and their fans are going to take it the worst when they're getting called for penalties, so it's not going to come across really well on TV. I'm much more worried about fan reception, because those are the guys that bring the money to the game. I don't think that the problem in this tournament is the referees, but rather the fault of the rulemakers. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Bob. When TSN will learn, we have enough fans of Russian hockey in Canada. We are a paying public too. Or you want to go the CBC Don Cherry's crying game plan. Start showing some russian hockey!!! Stop ignoring the big part of Canadian society. Hell with you TSN :madfire:

Russians make up "the big part of Canadian society?????"

When the TSN guys talk, just mute them. Put a big sticker on mcguires face and mute his comments. They're not worth listening to.

Russians make up "the big part of Canadian society?????"
That is why I do not know whether he is on here being serious or just joking around.

When the TSN guys talk, just mute them. Put a big sticker on mcguires face and mute his comments. They're not worth listening to.
We should be thankful we have the guys we have trying to call this tourney. Can you imagine Glenn Healy doing the games? We'd be better off with Dennis Miller. Its not easy for Gord and Pierre and I am a fan of both. I would like to see them make their very best effort to leave the officiating alone as best they can the rest of the way and let Nicholson and others handle it.
For Bob McKenzie- Bob do you know if the referee in chief is entertaining any of the team reps as far as what is a penalty and what is not? It is my understanding that in these tourneys you will not be able to sway the way these officials will do their job so we may just have to accept that it will be called like this the rest of the way. Once the tourney ends then it will be open for discussion and you can bet it will be the hot topic. No amount of Gord and Pierre drawing attention to it will change it so it would be best if they do what they can to not mention it anymore. That is my own opinion and not the opinion of any other members of the Swiss Hockey Academy :)

I don't know why some people don't get it, I'm sure Pierre and Gord would talk about anything other than officiating if there was anything else to talk about, the officials are making this tourney theirs and it is disrupting the flow of the game so much that if Pierre and Gord didn't talk about the officiating there would basically be dead air because the refs aren't letting the players play.

Russians make up "the big part of Canadian society?????"

:biglaugh: You're joking...right?

Yes, look at the post I was reffering to.

Yes, look at the post I was reffering to.

Alllrighty, I thought maybe you were another one of those confused Russians :D

What did u expect? It's a hockey tourney in Canada. Canadians aren't that much keen on any one else's hockey programs these days. If Canada wins agian it will be one of the greatest games of all time, if Russia wins it will be a mediocre tourney ruined by the refs.

They aren't interested in your corrupt and politic-riddled Russian Program thats for sure :sarcasm:

Now I'm REALLY confused. Tonight's USA Sui game was officiated extremely well, and it made for a great hockey game. I didn't catch the ref's name before the game, but whoever it was did a much better job and called WAY less. Then the Finland Norway game we get Frank whatever his name is the German that did the awful Can Sui game, and he call a pretty loose (and good) game too! Did the IIHF change their minds and scrap their ridiculous plan and tell the refs to do the high quality job that they are capable of?

Whatever it is, I desperately hope it continues because it was a whole lot more pleasant to watch, and imo, the USA Sui game was the best of the tournament so far.

Now I'm REALLY confused. Tonight's USA Sui game was officiated extremely well, and it made for a great hockey game. I didn't catch the ref's name before the game, but whoever it was did a much better job and called WAY less. Then the Finland Norway game we get Frank whatever his name is the German that did the awful Can Sui game, and he call a pretty loose (and good) game too! Did the IIHF change their minds and scrap their ridiculous plan and tell the refs to do the high quality job that they are capable of?

Whatever it is, I desperately hope it continues because it was a whole lot more pleasant to watch, and imo, the USA Sui game was the best of the tournament so far.

I guess 44 penalty minutes in US-Swi is very compatible with 42 penalty minutes in the Can-Swi game, but perhaps the difference is you were not listening to the whining TSN? That is my point, if that wasn't for the whining I would have enjoyed the games instead I had to listen to P. Mcguire's whining.

I guess 44 penalty minutes in US-Swi is very compatible with 42 penalty minutes in the Can-Swi game, but perhaps the difference is you were not listening to the whining TSN? That is my point, if that wasn't for the whining I would have enjoyed the games instead I had to listen to P. Mcguire's whining.
I haven't watched a single game on TSN this tournament, I've been at every one (and the atrocious refereeing was ABSOLUTELY the story, and I haven't seen a single thing on TSN). The real difference was that the penalties were all REAL penalties. I'm surprised at the high number of penalty minutes; I would have thought it was lower than that, although keep in mind at least 10 of those are from a misconduct to a Swedish player that automatically goes with a checking from behind minor. The remaining 34 minutes, or 17 minor penalties, is not particularly excessive. The real point here, though, is that regardless of the number of penalties handed out, the ref called what the game demanded be called, not phantom penalties that no one else in the world would have guessed was a penalty. The difference was evident purely by fan reaction - there was basically no booing at all tonight, and it almost felt like people were going to cheer the ref when he came out after the intermissions just because we were used to such crap.

The job TSN did on the last couple of Canada's games is absolutely terrible. Hard fought games against tough gritty opponents became unwatchable with the amount of whining that has been on. Non-stop whining by P. Mcguire absolutely ruined the experience of watching these games.

While I agree he is biased and a whinner...he has a legitimate gripe with the horrible reffing...And not just on Canada but other teams as well.

A thanks to TSN for picking up some extra Sens games which coincides with my visit to the Toronto area.

I would have missed these games otherwise.

Any chance TSN will ever have a Cuthbert/ McGuire tandem ? Miller is decent, but Cuthbert is probably the best play by play guy right now.

Also, Dave Reid (from last night's Sens-Isles game) is a good colour commentator, far better than Healy (easily the worst national colour commentator).

Even though he's somewhat of a caffiened out whacko and says crazy things a lot, I like McGuire's entertaining ways.

I guess 44 penalty minutes in US-Swi is very compatible with 42 penalty minutes in the Can-Swi game, but perhaps the difference is you were not listening to the whining TSN? That is my point, if that wasn't for the whining I would have enjoyed the games instead I had to listen to P. Mcguire's whining.

Listen, I will say this politely and respectfully, but if you're going to come on here and use facts to back up your opinions, you better get your facts straight. There were 44 minutes in penalties assessed in the U.S.-Switzerland game last night. There were 160 penalty minutes assessed in the Canada-Norway game the night before.

As I have said on these boards before, you're entitled to any opinion you like and if I thought my posting here would curtail the expressing of opinions, I wouldn't do it. So you, sir, are free to think whatever you like. You can say Pierre is a whiner, you can say whatever you like about Gord or myself, you can say that TSN should be the The Siberian Network, I have no problem with any of that, but if you're going to come on here and mis-state facts to enhance your opinion, sorry, but I'm calling you on it.

I don't think anyone on here being truthful realy thinks the officiating could in any way be classified as good at this tournament yet and the numbers and reactions from Teams management and people watching the games concur.I have'nt been able to see the U.S-Swiss game yet but i heard it was an improvement.Hopefully it will only continue to get better especially for tonights big game which i am sure looking forward to.I like to think the reactyion from the press and fans is putting some professional pressure on the refs to be at their best,they do have time to get a better balance here yet and we havbe to hope they do so.

Looking forward to a dandy tonight.Good luck to both teams,But you know who i'm rooting for. ;)

When are you going to realize that the clowns are not the guys on the ice, but the guys in the boardroom..most notably Rene Fasel?

Right about the same time we start to see a generally consistant application of the rules. I do not disagree that the IIHF's misguided attempt at a zero-tolerance crackdown is a major problem. However, this problem is only being exacerbated by the general incompetence of the officials themselves.

If nothing else, consistancy is what everyone asks of the officials. These guys should not be bringing their own personal interpretations of the rulebooks into this tournament.

I think criticizing TSN is misguided. I didn't watch the game in question but I've seen several of their broadcasts and generally they do a fine job. Yes, upper management has made one glaring mistake (hiring Pierre McGuire,) but other than that I can't really find any other faults. Broadcasters have to talk constantly for 3 hours, in a game with 160 penalty minutes, there can't be much else to talk to about.

I for one am grateful for TSN, how many other stations are showing the WJCs despite the fact the rights are free (I think?)

However annoying Pierre may be, he doesn't make games 'unwatchable.'

i think it's absolutely hilarious how the majority of the people here - with a select few - are paying lip service to both Gord and Bob just because they post and read these forums.

i think it's absolutely hilarious how the majority of the people here - with a select few - are paying lip service to both Gord and Bob just because they post and read these forums.
whats so bad about that? They are both guys that most of us watch daily on TV, so I think its cool to talk to them and know that they read this stuff..

Listen, I will say this politely and respectfully, but if you're going to come on here and use facts to back up your opinions, you better get your facts straight. There were 44 minutes in penalties assessed in the U.S.-Switzerland game last night. There were 160 penalty minutes assessed in the Canada-Norway game the night before.

As I have said on these boards before, you're entitled to any opinion you like and if I thought my posting here would curtail the expressing of opinions, I wouldn't do it. So you, sir, are free to think whatever you like. You can say Pierre is a whiner, you can say whatever you like about Gord or myself, you can say that TSN should be the The Siberian Network, I have no problem with any of that, but if you're going to come on here and mis-state facts to enhance your opinion, sorry, but I'm calling you on it.

Canada-Switzerland was the game when all the whining started. The ref handed out 42 penalty minutes so stop lying about me not using the facts straight. It is you who are not using the facts straight because if you talk about Can-Norway game and 160 penalty minutes handed out there then you should also mention that about 100 minutes were given for the fight that broke out with seconds left and the fight was caused by undisciplinary behavior of canadian players.

And the comment about The Siberian Network is just childish.

whats so bad about that? They are both guys that most of us watch daily on TV, so I think its cool to talk to them and know that they read this stuff..

whats wrong with that? did you read my post? because most of the views posted here are not genuine, they're only 'agreeing' with those two because they read this board. if they had not shown up, there would have been a heck of a lot of people saying how terrible TSN was.

Listen, I will say this politely and respectfully, but if you're going to come on here and use facts to back up your opinions, you better get your facts straight. There were 44 minutes in penalties assessed in the U.S.-Switzerland game last night. There were 160 penalty minutes assessed in the Canada-Norway game the night before.

As I have said on these boards before, you're entitled to any opinion you like and if I thought my posting here would curtail the expressing of opinions, I wouldn't do it. So you, sir, are free to think whatever you like. You can say Pierre is a whiner, you can say whatever you like about Gord or myself, you can say that TSN should be the The Siberian Network, I have no problem with any of that, but if you're going to come on here and mis-state facts to enhance your opinion, sorry, but I'm calling you on it.


hahahahaha that was funny

The refs are beyond a disgrace, keep up the great work TSN.

Canada-Switzerland was the game when all the whining started. The ref handed out 42 penalty minutes so stop lying about me not using the facts straight. It is you who are not using the facts straight because if you talk about Can-Norway game and 160 penalty minutes handed out there then you should also mention that about 100 minutes were given for the fight that broke out with seconds left and the fight was caused by undisciplinary behavior of canadian players.

And the comment about The Siberian Network is just childish.

:cry:

HFboards is highly popular place for real hockey people. Lots of players with English reading skills from WJC do read these boards specially post game reports. I have seen Ovechkin browsing it last year, Slovak and Swedish players always read what people write about them, so I will not be surprised that TSN closely tracks down the opinions. 100% guaranteed that TSN will tell Mcguire to stop whining, you'll see it today.

Hopefully TSN says nothing to Pierre, no need to tell Pierre to stop whining, just to please a bunch of whiners. Pierres whining is justified. Keep it up Pierre.

Canada-Switzerland was the game when all the whining started. The ref handed out 42 penalty minutes so stop lying about me not using the facts straight. It is you who are not using the facts straight because if you talk about Can-Norway game and 160 penalty minutes handed out there then you should also mention that about 100 minutes were given for the fight that broke out with seconds left and the fight was caused by undisciplinary behavior of canadian players.

And the comment about The Siberian Network is just childish.

Buddy... did you actually watch the game? Or are you posting to feel semi-superior because you can argue on a message board? Because if you did watch the game, you'd know that the fight that broke out wasn't because of "undisciplined behaviour of canadian players", it was because a Norwegian player ran Pogge.

And regardless of the fact that 102 minutes was a direct result of the scrum, that still left 58 minutes in penalties called throughout the game. Considering that each game is only supposed to be 60 minutes long - I'd say that TSN or any other media outlet has more than enough cause to comment about the state of the reffing at this years tourney.

As someone that was at that game, they probably didn't "whine" enough about it.

Buddy... did you actually watch the game? Or are you posting to feel semi-superior because you can argue on a message board? Because if you did watch the game, you'd know that the fight that broke out wasn't because of "undisciplined behaviour of canadian players", it was because a Norwegian player ran Pogge.

And regardless of the fact that 102 minutes was a direct result of the scrum, that still left 58 minutes in penalties called throughout the game. Considering that each game is only supposed to be 60 minutes long - I'd say that TSN or any other media outlet has more than enough cause to comment about the state of the reffing at this years tourney.

As someone that was at that game, they probably didn't "whine" enough about it.

First of all you are not my buddy.
Second would be if your team starts a 5 on 5 fight because of an opposing player running your goalie then it is undisciplined behavior. I am quite surprised that IIHF is turning blind eye on this fight. I understand that the tourney is held in Canada but everything has its limits.

Third the last comments in this thread I made was a comparison of the games Canada-Switzerland and USA-Switzerland. Apparentely the US game was very good according to a poster and then I made a comment that that game actually had more penalty minutes than Canada-Switzerland game where Mcguire whined non-stop and made the game unwatchable.

i've always said tsn.ca doesn't know how to do hockey well,... bias is its middle name

pro-Leafs or pro-Crosby or pro-pro-pro... a bunch of cheerleaders and whiners

TSN knows how to do hockey better than Sportsnet that's for sure, and the Score only shows minor league hockey seldomly and everybody likes to bash Cherry for whatever he says, and whines about Bob Cole and Harry Neale. Out of the three all-sports networks in Canada, TSN is the best at covering hockey (unless you want pro-pro-pro Vancouver and pro-Naslund and pro-Bertuzzi talk on Sportnet Pacific)

They might be pro-pro-pro about many things, I still like their broadcasts much better than the other alternatives (including the pro-pro-pro Flames Roger Millions commentated Sportsnet West games). I do like HNIC the most, despite the first game always being the Leafs, but they only show hockey once a week.

I don't know what other network could do the WJCs better, because Pierre McGuire is probably going off on the refs much less than Don Cherry would if CBC covered it, one could only imagine the controversy that would come out of that man's mouth (we will see on HNIC tonight anyways).

whats wrong with that? did you read my post? because most of the views posted here are not genuine, they're only 'agreeing' with those two because they read this board. if they had not shown up, there would have been a heck of a lot of people saying how terrible TSN was.
I guess so.. I really don't understand how people get so mad at them? TSN provides so much hockey coverage, and if you are that upset at the commentary, just hit the ****ing mute button. Its not very hard.

First of all you are not my buddy.
Second would be if your team starts a 5 on 5 fight because of an opposing player running your goalie then it is undisciplined behavior. I am quite surprised that IIHF is turning blind eye on this fight. I understand that the tourney is held in Canada but everything has its limits.

Third the last comments in this thread I made was a comparison of the games Canada-Switzerland and USA-Switzerland. Apparentely the US game was very good according to a poster and then I made a comment that that game actually had more penalty minutes than Canada-Switzerland game where Mcguire whined non-stop and made the game unwatchable.

Have you ever seen a hockey game before? :confused:

First of all you are not my buddy.



Something tells me he didn't mean it literally.

as for the rest *Yawwwwnnn*.

(unless you want pro-pro-pro Vancouver and pro-Naslund and pro-Bertuzzi talk on Sportnet Pacific)

I still like their broadcasts much better than the other alternatives (including the pro-pro-pro Flames Roger Millions commentated Sportsnet West games).

Pierre McGuire is probably going off on the refs much less than Don Cherry would if CBC covered it

Agree on all points. Sportsnet is good for your team coverage, but all the stations are (rightfully) very biased. They just want to get the largest audience possible, so I don't blame them. TheScore is more all sports, and don't really delve into the comprehensive hockey review, instead just showing highlights.

And for the thing about Pierre, I still don't understand why people don't like him.. He is very entertaining and knows his hockey. He does go crazy at times (ie broken sticks) but that is pretty funny too. Pierre is leaps and bounds a better color man than Millen/Garrett/Healy.

For the record, I love the job that Pierre and Gord do. Keep up the good work boys. You call it as it is. :handclap:

Canada-Switzerland was the game when all the whining started. The ref handed out 42 penalty minutes so stop lying about me not using the facts straight. It is you who are not using the facts straight because if you talk about Can-Norway game and 160 penalty minutes handed out there then you should also mention that about 100 minutes were given for the fight that broke out with seconds left and the fight was caused by undisciplinary behavior of canadian players.

The IIHF has already said the officiating in this tournament has been unacceptable, so it's not just TSN or Canadian "whining." The few others who actually defended the officiating have long since given up. Why don't you too?

The IIHF has already said the officiating in this tournament has been unacceptable, so it's not just TSN or Canadian "whining." The few others who actually defended the officiating have long since given up. Why don't you too?

Give up on what? TSN whining? I never really defended the officiating but I understand unlike other "hockey specialsits" that this is transformation period and will have its moments.

I guess so.. I really don't understand how people get so mad at them? TSN provides so much hockey coverage, and if you are that upset at the commentary, just hit the ****ing mute button. Its not very hard.

look i'm sorry if it sounded like i was razzing you but my comment just extended towards the comments being expressed in this thread.

it was offtopic but whatever.

Pierre is making this tournament unwatchable for me unless i hit the mute button. He's just plain AWFUL. His comments are idiot and ignorant.

Everything the opposition does it dirty and the refs suck. yes.
I still wonder what he did to get his job.

So Bob and Gord are already posting here?

I sure hope TSN gets a keyboard without caps lock if Pierre ever decides to start posting...


LOL :biglaugh:

Right about the same time we start to see a generally consistant application of the rules. I do not disagree that the IIHF's misguided attempt at a zero-tolerance crackdown is a major problem. However, this problem is only being exacerbated by the general incompetence of the officials themselves.

If nothing else, consistancy is what everyone asks of the officials. These guys should not be bringing their own personal interpretations of the rulebooks into this tournament.

The reason why we saw so many penalties during the first few days of this tournament is because the referees were forbidden from using their own judgment.

Watching the Canada-USA game today, the Swedish referee called his own game, and it was great. He let the players play physical and he called almost everything involving illegal use of the stick. That is the game that everybody wants to see.

The only problem I had was that Jack Johnson should have been assessed a Match Penalty, not just 5 for Elbowing + Game Misc.

Hey Pierre, give a shout out to small town Saskatchewan.

The rest of you guys need to step back from your keyboards for awhile and take a second or two to appreciate the fact that TSN offers coverage for this tournament.

The majority of the time I have been in agreement with MacQuire in his assessment of the officials calls. I also don't think it is constant whining of officials, if he were talking about the same penalty over and over again then sure. But it's not ... when a bad call is made on either side he commented on it ... can you fault him that there were dozens of phantom calls in a game?

The flow to some of these games has been atrocious, and the players have no clue what they are allowed to do.



PS. TSN should increase their broadcast coverage of this tournament. I can't speak for 5 million people, but I for one would definately tune into every single game they broadcast at this tournament.

Didn't watch the game but caught the highlights this morning.

How did Chipchura score into an empty net?

Canada-Switzerland was the game when all the whining started. The ref handed out 42 penalty minutes so stop lying about me not using the facts straight. It is you who are not using the facts straight because if you talk about Can-Norway game and 160 penalty minutes handed out there then you should also mention that about 100 minutes were given for the fight that broke out with seconds left and the fight was caused by undisciplinary behavior of canadian players.

And the comment about The Siberian Network is just childish.

Honestly, I wasn't saying anything disparaging when I used The Siberian Network line, just a glib way to reflect your view that more Russian games should be shown on TSN. If you took offence on that, that wasn't my intention. Sorry about that.

Also, it was my mistake on the referencing of games. I thought you were talking about Canada-Norway when you correctly point out you were talking about Canada-Switzerland. My bad on that. Next time I'll be sure to get my facts straight. :D

On a lot of the other stuff, I think we can agree to disagree, but that's fine. Makes the world a more interesting place.

Happy New Year.

Didn't watch the game but caught the highlights this morning.

How did Chipchura score into an empty net?

The U.S., because of their tie against the Swiss, needed to beat Canada to finish first in the pool so they pulled their goalie.

Hey Pierre, give a shout out to small town Saskatchewan.

The rest of you guys need to step back from your keyboards for awhile and take a second or two to appreciate the fact that TSN offers coverage for this tournament.

The majority of the time I have been in agreement with MacQuire in his assessment of the officials calls. I also don't think it is constant whining of officials, if he were talking about the same penalty over and over again then sure. But it's not ... when a bad call is made on either side he commented on it ... can you fault him that there were dozens of phantom calls in a game?

The flow to some of these games has been atrocious, and the players have no clue what they are allowed to do.



PS. TSN should increase their broadcast coverage of this tournament. I can't speak for 5 million people, but I for one would definately tune into every single game they broadcast at this tournament.
I agree with the PS. I would watch absolutely every game they would air, no matter the time of day or who was playing. PVR's are good for that.

First of all you are not my buddy.
Second would be if your team starts a 5 on 5 fight because of an opposing player running your goalie then it is undisciplined behavior. I am quite surprised that IIHF is turning blind eye on this fight. I understand that the tourney is held in Canada but everything has its limits.

Third the last comments in this thread I made was a comparison of the games Canada-Switzerland and USA-Switzerland. Apparentely the US game was very good according to a poster and then I made a comment that that game actually had more penalty minutes than Canada-Switzerland game where Mcguire whined non-stop and made the game unwatchable.

First of all, as someone already mentioned, "buddy" wasn't meant literally... it was a more polite euphemism then some of the other choice terms I could have used.

As for your second point, when have you *ever* seen a game where an opposing team ran the others goalie and it didn't result in a scrum - international play or not.

I didn't realize that sticking up for ones teammate was considered "undisciplined" and I doubt that you'd be able to find a coach or player anywhere around the world that would agree with your skewed perspective.

And exactly how is it "absolutely [the] right thing" that Jack Johnson headhunts Downie and doesn't get a suspension and that you're "quite surprised that IIHF is turning blind eye on [the] fight" when clearly it was the Norwegian player that instigated the situation?

Kettle... Pot... Pot... Kettle.

Your biases are clearly starting to show.

Honestly, I wasn't saying anything disparaging when I used The Siberian Network line, just a glib way to reflect your view that more Russian games should be shown on TSN. If you took offence on that, that wasn't my intention. Sorry about that.

Also, it was my mistake on the referencing of games. I thought you were talking about Canada-Norway when you correctly point out you were talking about Canada-Switzerland. My bad on that. Next time I'll be sure to get my facts straight. :D

On a lot of the other stuff, I think we can agree to disagree, but that's fine. Makes the world a more interesting place.

Happy New Year.


Bob, don't waste your time with his posts. :)

The job TSN did on the last couple of Canada's games is absolutely terrible. Hard fought games against tough gritty opponents became unwatchable with the amount of whining that has been on. Non-stop whining by P. Mcguire absolutely ruined the experience of watching these games.

THE OFFICIATING HAS BEEN HORRENDOUS! JUST BECAUSE HE WAS HOLDING THE PLAYERS STICK DOESNT MEAN HE SHOULD GET THIS "HOLDING THE STICK" PENALTY. LET THEM PLAY! :biglaugh:

I thought i was the only one who was annoyed by Mcguires baseless bickering until got on this forum. The guy has no clue what he's talking about more than half the time and it seems he always has to raise his voice to prove his "point". Every tournament the man finds some topic to focus on (I think the WC was "Maltby's vast amount of international experience"). I can't stand him.

The paying customers, who weren't watching or listening to TSN, will tell you that the officiating in this tournament is ruining it for them.

Was it really the officiating that ruined it for them? Or the undisciplined style of play that lead to the onslaugh of infractions?

It's a matter of perspective, and in my opinion many of the calls viewed as "horrible" by Mcguire were nothing more than the result of 18 year old's playing a frustrated game.

The IIHF is attempting to implement a radically new officiating system (zero tolerance) for the very first time in this tournament and the results are predictable.

The officiating has been no different than that of the officiating in the NHL. The only difference is that NHL players have become accustomed to it, and are gradually lessening their foolish infractions. These kids are not used to playing hockey by the rule books, and this is looking an awful lot like the first week of NHL play (when the entire game was dominated by special teams).

It's funny but some people here think that in order not to disrupt the flow of the game the officials should call limited to a certain number of PP's. I really do not get that, but apparentely for these fans it is not important what players do on the ice. I am sorry, but it is simply moronic. If a team constantly playes dirty it should be penalized as many times as the foul play is done. I am not saying there were no bad calls - there were, but TSN had an agenda to help team Canada to be able to do the little things that will go unpunished and they achieved it. In the game against USA nothing was called and the game itself looked like pre-new NHL game with all the clutch and grab, little dirty taps and hooks or in other words - boring.

It's funny but some people here think that in order not to disrupt the flow of the game the officials should call limited to a certain number of PP's. I really do not get that, but apparentely for these fans it is not important what players do on the ice. I am sorry, but it is simply moronic. If a team constantly playes dirty it should be penalized as many times as the foul play is done. I am not saying there were no bad calls - there were, but TSN had an agenda to help team Canada to be able to do the little things that will go unpunished and they achieved it. In the game against USA nothing was called and the game itself looked like pre-new NHL game with all the clutch and grab, little dirty taps and hooks or in other words - boring.

I agree.

Players need to be accounatable for their ill-timed and often unintended mistakes. The fact is, they are recieving these penalties for a reason. They are breaking rules and there are consequences for it. The saying "You do the crime, you do the time" couldn't be any more relevant in this case.

There are two sides to every story, and the polar opposite and equally relevant stand is that the players are the ones taking the penalties, and the blame lies therein, and not with the one's just doing their jobs and calling it as they see it.

Do we really want to continue to hold meetings with these officials, to get them to turn a blind-eye a few times a game to "let them play"? If we do this, will this just decrease the the amount of called infractions to a stolid pace? Will this officiating of the officials render them ultimately useless when it counts?

This reminds me of a situation where a parent thinks their child can do no wrong, in spite of the facts. When a child acts out, is it their fault or the parent's? When a player acts out, is is their fault or the referee's? Sometimes....it's a little bit of both, but remember, you don't repremand a parent: you repremand a child.

The officiating has been no different than that of the officiating in the NHL. The only difference is that NHL players have become accustomed to it, and are gradually lessening their foolish infractions. These kids are not used to playing hockey by the rule books, and this is looking an awful lot like the first week of NHL play (when the entire game was dominated by special teams).

The first few days of this tournament was much worse than the first few weeks in the NHL.

The NHL has a training camp for its officials every season, where they were able to discuss at great length the new standard they were using. Also, the NHL released a video and educated players and fans on what is and is not, in general, going to be a penalty. The NHL actually had a plan, and put it into action.

The IIHF simply announced a crackdown and told its referees to call games as tight as they possibly could. They had no groundwork layed out and zero player education and nothing for the fans either. The IIHF basically scared the bejezus out of its referees to call as many penalties as possible. The results were disgusting to watch. Regulars here will tell you that I am the most biased for the officials, and even I found the officiating horrible early on this week, and it was totally the IIHF's fault. They didn't just call the hooking and holding, they were calling simple bodychecks as Charging, Roughing, etc, when the calls were not warranted. The only reason the IIHF announced this tighter standard is because Rene Fasel has an unhealthy obsession with the NHL.

If you guys think the Canada-USA game was boring, you didn't watch it, or you have your own agenda against Canada. That game was fast-paced, hard hitting and full of emotion. It was a pleasure to watch.

If you guys think the Canada-USA game was boring, you didn't watch it, or you have your own agenda against Canada. That game was fast-paced, hard hitting and full of emotion. It was a pleasure to watch.

Exactly right. These two have an agenda and we know what it is. I can't believe anyone who actually watched the Canada-Norway game still has the balls/stupidity to say the officiating was good. Even the IIHF says it wasn't.

For the one millionth time, nobody is complaining about stick calls or obstruction. It's the invisible calls and the routine hits called as penalties that are the problem. If phantom calls and watching a penalty a minute is your idea of good hockey, then I hope you taped that game cuz it sure ain't coming out on DVD. Enjoy.

If you guys think the Canada-USA game was boring, you didn't watch it, or you have your own agenda against Canada. That game was fast-paced, hard hitting and full of emotion. It was a pleasure to watch.

I found the Canada-USA game as boring as it gets. I watched TBS' "Worlds Funniest Commercials 2005" for the first hour of the game. It was seriously bad.

I prefered the Canada-Norway and Canada-Swiss games over the USA matchup BY FAR.

I found the Canada-USA game as boring as it gets. I watched TBS' "Worlds Funniest Commercials 2005" for the first hour of the game. It was seriously bad.

I prefered the Canada-Norway and Canada-Swiss games over the USA matchup BY FAR.
Are you serious? You have to be joking.

Most of the canadians will say how great the game was simply because it gave them the result they wanted. In case with the games against swiss and Norway it did not give the result they wanted because Canada barely overcame Switzerland and did not blow Norway as US did. The game was ugly, really, clutch and grab, I thought Can-Swi was surely aa more entertaining game. Canada-Norway was spoiled by the last minute fight and of course by extensive whining of Pierre

Most of the canadians will say how great the game was simply because it gave them the result they wanted. In case with the games against swiss and Norway it did not give the result they wanted because Canada barely overcame Switzerland and did not blow Norway as US did. The game was ugly, really, clutch and grab, I thought Can-Swi was surely aa more entertaining game. Canada-Norway was spoiled by the last minute fight and of course by extensive whining of Pierre


Wow!!! I watched all 3 of the games and I pretty much have the exact opposite viewpoint that you do sir. The Swiss game was pretty decent, I'll admit. I changed channels to watch old Seinfeld reruns and Wheel of Fortune during the Norway game. That game was just plain old boring, just like watching a Calgary-Minnesota game circa 2004.

The Canada-U.S. game had drama because either team could've won. There was strong end to end play, good hitting both ways. I'm sure if you check game time, it must've been a shorter game than the Norway one. I felt it was a good game. Even if Canada had lost, I'd still say it was a better game to watch as a fan.

Most of the canadians will say how great the game was simply because it gave them the result they wanted. In case with the games against swiss and Norway it did not give the result they wanted because Canada barely overcame Switzerland and did not blow Norway as US did. The game was ugly, really, clutch and grab, I thought Can-Swi was surely aa more entertaining game. Canada-Norway was spoiled by the last minute fight and of course by extensive whining of Pierre


I agree 100%

I liked the Can/Swiss game as it was really tight all the way through and kept me on the edge of my seat.

Norway was good in the sense that it was so lobsided that it was fun to watch the Canadians rush and the Norwegian goalie Hougan stand on his head the whole game.

The Can/US game was just flat all the way through. I was more interested in my New Years Chinese food than the game.
I mean Pogge getting player of the game for Canada with 20 someodd shots (2 goals against) is just pathetic. That's not an outstanding player, thats admitting there were no other standouts in an otherwise boring game.

I agree 100%

I liked the Can/Swiss game as it was really tight all the way through and kept me on the edge of my seat.

Norway was good in the sense that it was so lobsided that it was fun to watch the Canadians rush and the Norwegian goalie Hougan stand on his head the whole game.

The Can/US game was just flat all the way through. I was more interested in my New Years Chinese food than the game.
I mean Pogge getting player of the game for Canada with 20 someodd shots (2 goals against) is just pathetic. That's not an outstanding player, thats admitting there were no other standouts in an otherwise boring game.
The Norway /Canada game was good and the US/Canada game was not? Whatever credibility you were attempting to establish has just taken a major hit. Typing 100% agree in regards to any post Siberian makes makes me think you are living in the same house or are the same person. I was enjoying your points until you called the Norway/Canada game a decent game. That was brutal hockey- nevermind what the refs did.

The Norway /Canada game was good and the US/Canada game was not? Whatever credibility you were attempting to establish has just taken a major hit. Typing 100% agree in regards to any post Siberian makes makes me think you are living in the same house or are the same person. I was enjoying your points until you called the Norway/Canada game a decent game. That was brutal hockey- nevermind what the refs did.

Talking about credibility - there is none for you at all since you claim that this person and I are the same people. I have no idea who this guy is, yesterday was the first time I had seen his/her posts. US-Canada game looked like it belong to NHL 2 seasons ago - not very exciting. There is a reason you claim it was good - because you are a canadian fan even having Swiss avatar under your nick.

The Norway /Canada game was good and the US/Canada game was not? Whatever credibility you were attempting to establish has just taken a major hit. Typing 100% agree in regards to any post Siberian makes makes me think you are living in the same house or are the same person. I was enjoying your points until you called the Norway/Canada game a decent game. That was brutal hockey- nevermind what the refs did.

I never said the Can/Nor game was GOOD, just that I enjoyed watching it far more than the USA game. The Norway game was horrible but atleast it had the goaltending aspect to keep it interesting and root for the underdog, the USA game was just flat all the way through past the opening 15 mins; just a brutal game that was boring up till Downie got one right in the kisser.

Talking about credibility - there is none for you at all since you claim that this person and I are the same people. I have no idea who this guy is, yesterday was the first time I had seen his/her posts. US-Canada game looked like it belong to NHL 2 seasons ago - not very exciting. There is a reason you claim it was good - because you are a canadian fan even having Swiss avatar under your nick.
I am a hockey fan first, a fan of well played hockey no matter who is playing it. Yes I am Canadian, yes I cheer for them first but I do not watch hockey with blinders on. I'm not calling the US/Can game the greatest game ever- it was far from that. I take exception to Norway/Canada being called anything other than atrocious. That you two can call it better than the US/Can game calls into question your credibility here. I am not going to win poster of the year but my credibility is still somewhat intact.

I never said the Can/Nor game was GOOD, just that I enjoyed watching it far more than the USA game. The Norway game was horrible but atleast it had the goaltending aspect to keep it interesting and root for the underdog, the USA game was just flat all the way through past the opening 15 mins; just a brutal game that was boring up till Downie got one right in the kisser.
Well I guess its hard for me to question what you call good, perhaps you like different things about the game than i do.

I am a hockey fan first, a fan of well played hockey no matter who is playing it. Yes I am Canadian, yes I cheer for them first but I do not watch hockey with blinders on. I'm not calling the US/Can game the greatest game ever- it was far from that. I take exception to Norway/Canada being called anything other than atrocious. That you two can call it better than the US/Can game calls into question your credibility here. I am not going to win poster of the year but my credibility is still somewhat intact.

Your credibility does not go further than your fellow biased canadian hockey fans. The only reason you enjoyed he game is because Canada won. If this was a different result you would have been singing a different tune. There was nothing good about that specific hockey game because it was flat out dirty. Boarding, hacking, clutching and grabbing, slowing down the game, I can't believe some people actually saw any flow in this game - there was none.

The rest of you guys need to step back from your keyboards for awhile and take a second or two to appreciate the fact that TSN offers coverage for this tournament.

Now, let's not kid ourselves here. There is *one* reason why TSN is showing these games, and it's not because they are being magnanimous. They do it because it makes them money. Period.

Now, us diehards would watch more games. Would enough watch to make it worth their while? I imagine they've done the research on that, and the answer would have been no.

Your credibility does not go further than your fellow biased canadian hockey fans. The only reason you enjoyed he game is because Canada won. If this was a different result you would have been singing a different tune. There was nothing good about that specific hockey game because it was flat out dirty. Boarding, hacking, clutching and grabbing, slowing down the game, I can't believe some people actually saw any flow in this game - there was none.
So the Norway /Can game was a better game?

I said going in that this tournament was going to be interesting because it was being used as a IIHF guinea pig for the Olympics. If you guys think the noise coming out of here is loud over the WJC game calling, wait until Turin because if this is a hint of things to come, well, you ain't seen or heard nothin yet. :D



hey Bob... a question and a comment... firstly, what happened to the IIHF using NHL officials for Turin - I heard it's not happening?

Also, don't you think that the Olympics will be at least marginally better with regards to penalty calls as a vast majority of the participants will be NHL'ers and familiar with zero tolerance on obstruction and interference?

also... been watching your coverage of the World Junior tournament for many years now and have always enjoyed it and appreciated the insights.

For those who complaining about homerism on TSN... let's see, a Canadian network, broadcasting to Canadians, featuring a Canadian team on Canadian soil! I would be upset if you didn't cover the games with a Canadian bias. For fans of other countries, I suggest you try to find the game on that countries' network :sarcasm:

Well I guess its hard for me to question what you call good, perhaps you like different things about the game than i do.

Once again, I never said it was good in the sense that it was 'good hockey', just that I enjoyed the game and found it more fun than the slow pace of the Can/US game

With that said, this Fin/Swede game is awesome!

The only problem? Pierre Mcguire and his incessant whining about calls is just becoming too much to bear. I mean he was literally groaning into his microphone at the end of the 3rd period while the ref was talking to the Finnish coach. It's ridiculous and TSN needs to talk to this guy about it, because his personal vendetta against the officiating isn't doing us viewers any good.

Once again, I never said it was good in the sense that it was 'good hockey', just that I enjoyed the game and found it more fun than the slow pace of the Can/US game

With that said, this Fin/Swede game is awesome!

The only problem? Pierre Mcguire and his incessant whining about calls is just becoming too much to bear. I mean he was literally groaning into his microphone at the end of the 3rd period while the ref was talking to the Finnish coach. It's ridiculous and TSN needs to talk to this guy about it, because his personal vendetta against the officiating isn't doing us viewers any good.
Awesome like a game of chess- minus the excitement. I heard an announcer say that. I watch too many games to remember who.

Awesome like a game of chess- minus the excitement. I heard an announcer say that. I watch too many games to remember who.

70+ shots on net, fantastic goaltending, OT thriller

no excitement?

Oh sorry, are you one of the people who like 8-5 goal games, all goals on special teams, and 60% of the goals involving running the goalie? If so then....I think i see where you're coming from..

I found the Canada-USA game as boring as it gets. I watched TBS' "Worlds Funniest Commercials 2005" for the first hour of the game. It was seriously bad.

I prefered the Canada-Norway and Canada-Swiss games over the USA matchup BY FAR.

I can't tell you your opinion is wrong. I will just say that you are in the vast minority in your opinion. Even the IIHF admits the officiating was terrible in those games, by their own fault too.


I liked the Can/Swiss game as it was really tight all the way through and kept me on the edge of my seat.


What do you do? Bet money on how long it'll take until the next penalty is called? Even better, double or nothing if you can guess what the call is within 30 seconds of the previous penalty?

I can't believe some people actually saw any flow in this game - there was none.

And there was in the CAN-SUI and CAN-NOR games?

Once again: Don't blame the referee's because the Canadian's like to take a lot of boneheaded penalties


There were a lot of non-calls made in todays Finn/Swede game that really ticked me off because when a referee turns a blind eye for the sake of "flow" or in this case, TV ratings, it ruins the integrity of the game.

70+ shots on net, fantastic goaltending, OT thriller

no excitement?

Oh sorry, are you one of the people who like 8-5 goal games, all goals on special teams, and 60% of the goals involving running the goalie? If so then....I think i see where you're coming from..
The game started out ok but both teams were trapping by the third. Not many decent passing plays, and when there was the Swedes went tick , tack, ****. The Finns never even got the tic tac. They were horrid. We have vastly differing ideas on what a good game is and is not. I do not need goals but I want to see players making plays, some big hits and some nice saves. The Swedes ran up a shot count but were really feeble when it counted.

Once again: Don't blame the referee's because the Canadian's like to take a lot of boneheaded penalties


There were a lot of non-calls made in todays Finn/Swede game that really ticked me off because when a referee turns a blind eye for the sake of "flow" or in this case, TV ratings, it ruins the integrity of the game.
On one hand this game was full of shots and excitement, on the other too much let go to appease us boneheaded Canadians. Which is it? Was it a great game or did the ref ruin it in your opinion? Maybe both.

The game started out ok but both teams were trapping by the third. Not many decent passing plays, and when there was the Swedes went tick , tack, ****. The Finns never even got the tic tac. They were horrid. We have vastly differing ideas on what a good game is and is not. I do not need goals but I want to see players making plays, some big hits and some nice saves. The Swedes ran up a shot count but were really feeble when it counted.

Fair enough.

I still liked it better than the Can/US game where I nearly fell asleep (partly due to boredom, partly due to drinking & chinese food)

On one hand this game was full of shots and excitement, on the other too much let go to appease us boneheaded Canadians. Which is it? Was it a great game or did the ref ruin it in your opinion? Maybe both.
I think they need to make up their mind of whether its going to be 'zero tolerance' or not. Near the end of the game at one point a Finn is blatantly hooking and grabbing at a Swede, no call. The following play (or was it the same play?) Sweden gets called for a penalty and it results in them losing the game.

Non-calls = Bad officiating

I'll use the Swiss game as an example:

there were 21 penaltys all game, 3 were for charging (which I guess Pierre finds "good Canadian hockey"), 2 elbowing, 1 USC, and the rest were obstruction.

I don't see how the refs were taking the physicality out of the game.

It seems to me that the TSN staff condone charging, cross-checking, and boarding for the sake of viewer ratings :confused:

During the first few days of this tournament, the referees were calling penalties on what were nothing but clean bodychecks.

Players were afraid to throw their weight around because they were scared of getting a penalty that wasn't warranted. I don't know about you, but I like some grit in the game. It's not fun to watch if there's no hitting, or if every bodycheck is a penalty of some kind.