The reason our dmen look terrible

It has been talked about before put I think these are a few points:

1. passive forechecking; teams are dumping the puck in our zone with a full head of steam and arriving to the puck at the same time as our dmen; giving them no time to do anything except slap the puck hard and blind around the boards; always resulting in our wingers getting creamed by opposing winger or pinching dman.

2. Is it also possible that our forwards are not working hard enough to get open and into passing lanes? It seems to me that our dmen do not have a lot of good passing options when they get puck...thoughts??

I would like to add the term puck possession or lack therof as part of our woes so far.

Is this an appropriate place to mention that Malakhov skates like he's towing a wheat combine?

Is this an appropriate place to mention that Malakhov skates like he's towing a wheat combine?

You can't just blame Malakhov. Most of them suck so far. Rafalski and Martin are out of position and feathering give-away passes in their own end way too often. Matvichuk disappears regularly and doesn't show much passion on the ice. White has been better by at least throwing the odd check and showing a little "zip" to his game. McGillis has done virtually nothing so far.
Who would've ever thought the most consistent Devil d-man so far would be Sean Brown?
Offensively, they are starting to show a little more jump. Still too many cross-rink passes ending up with either interceptions or, when the pass is successful, one-man rushes with no Devil anywhere nearby for a rebound scoring chance. The forechecking has been adequate, but with no real offensive plan, the forechecker is caught behind the goal line and the other team gets an odd-man rush. Just sloppy play with minimal strategy in general.
The team has talent, but is not showing any heart. They seem to miss a real leader on and off the ice. NJ is still playing without their best player, Elias, too.
While nothing along the Joe Thornton trade design really needs to be pulled off, NJ is definitely a team in need of a shake-up/wake-up call.

I was at the game last night v. colorado, I have not been able to go to a live game for a few weeks; so I got to see the team play w/ a different perspective........One thing I noticed that it is hard to notice on TV is that the forwards are not skating hard enough to get open and into passing lanes.

Many times the defensman gain possession of the puck and not one forward is in a good passing lane. So I am going to put some blame on the forwards for making the defensman have to make bad passes all night.

I have not noticed this becasue on tv you can't tell.

The reason our dmen look terrible




Because they are(for the most part) terrible.



watching Vladimir Malkhov and Richard Matvisuck all year long caugh up the puck and make blunders...... I now know how Don Cherry felt watching Hardy Astrom back when he coached Colorado.

Please get these guys out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Sun, I like your thoughts on dmen. Also I think some arejust slow. As for Devils passing it's terrible. 1, because in breakout they don't move out together. 2, they don't set themselves up to receive a pass. Other teams come down the ice coordinated the Devils come down the ice disjointed. As for the dmen passing around the boards that's all they do and that's not effective at all.

Lou screwed this team over with the wrong players for this new NHL. He needs to make massive trades. No playing today player has a lock on staying with the Devils IMO, not even Marty. It's house cleaning time to be competitive.

In the new NHL a game is won with offense, then offense and then again offense. Devils don't have consistent offense because they lack the offensive talent.

Because they are(for the most part) terrible

or that

The problem is if you where another team would you want Malacrap or Matvisuck?

LR being a hall of fame defensemen sure has these guys running around a lot in their own zone. The Dev system was always built on positioning. All I've seen so far is a bunch of chicken running around with their heads cut off. Lets not forget I guess everyone forgot how to check a player with the puck. :dunno:

You can't just blame Malakhov.

Sure I can. Just watch me. :)

I agree that most of them have been bad, but Malakhov is the lightning rod of criticism because he makes the most money. When sequencing bags of crap, the bag of crap that you had to pay the most to get often gets the most scorn.

Sure I can. Just watch me. :)

I agree that most of them have been bad, but Malakhov is the lightning rod of criticism because he makes the most money. When sequencing bags of crap, the bag of crap that you had to pay the most to get often gets the most scorn.
I was being rhetorical, but that's fine. I am by no means sticking up for Malakhov. Look at it this way. When the Scotts left, what was the biggest hole to fill, an offensive d-man or a solid checking type (understand I am boiling the Scotts down to the most basic elements of their games)? We had better options on the offensive side (Rafalski, Martin) than the hitter (White, maybe Matvichuk). So, a hitter was more necessary than another o-minded d-man. We grabbed McGillis to fill the Stevens role and Malakhov to replace Nieds. Who has done worse? With the hitter being the biggest need and McG not getting it done, that, to me, is the bigger issue. Malakhov, as you said, makes to most $ on a bad d, but his problems are not the worst the unit has; it's the lack of a defensive force that intimidates. McG has sucked all year and that's been the biggest problem.
I hope this makes sense.

I was being rhetorical, but that's fine. I am by no means sticking up for Malakhov. Look at it this way. When the Scotts left, what was the biggest hole to fill, an offensive d-man or a solid checking type (understand I am boiling the Scotts down to the most basic elements of their games)? We had better options on the offensive side (Rafalski, Martin) than the hitter (White, maybe Matvichuk). So, a hitter was more necessary than another o-minded d-man. We grabbed McGillis to fill the Stevens role and Malakhov to replace Nieds. Who has done worse? With the hitter being the biggest need and McG not getting it done, that, to me, is the bigger issue. Malakhov, as you said, makes to most $ on a bad d, but his problems are not the worst the unit has; it's the lack of a defensive force that intimidates. McG has sucked all year and that's been the biggest problem.
I hope this makes sense.

I'd be more than happy to dump both of them, but with only Hale realistically ready to jump into a starting role, I think we have to keep one. Unless Lou has something better up his sleeve (here's hoping..)

Lou's biggest mistake was investing his energies into the entire league with his CBA involvement and perhaps underestimating the length of Elias' recovery, instead of paying closer attention to the intents of the Scotts and the direction of the new NHL avec rules changes. With Burns, McMullen, etc. hard to fault Lou's staff for being distracted. At this point though the use of the rookies by management looks like they got a hold of the pre-lockout NYR Player Development SOP Manual.

Replacing Scott Stevens and Scott Niedermayer with Vladimir Malkhaov and Dan McGills is like replacing Bo and Luke Duke with Coy and Vance.

Another reason Larry must go: Malakhov still getting 20+ minutes a game. :shakehead He should be limited to PP duty only.

You know that hearing you guys whine about Malakhov is getting very tiring. Granted he is not living up to expectations but he isn't nearly as bad as all of you make him out to be.

He had a rough start to the year landing him with a -8 in the +/- category. But since Marty came back from his injury, Malakhov has been at a 0. That's not great but it isn't any worse than anyone else on the team.

I still don't think he was a good pickup but at least our PP was better for it (before it tanked in the last few games). The PP needs a D-man with a powerful shot at the point. Malakhov bring that. Have you seen Martin and Rafi? They rarely shoot from the point and when they do, they whiff in a baby shot that my grandmother could stop - and she's been dead for 11 years.

The only defencemen that I can say is playing worth their salary is Colin White and maybe Matvichuk. They aren't putting much up on the board but at least they don't shirk their defensive responsibilities like the others.

Don't make Malakhov a scapegoat for a defensive unit that hasn't lived up to its expectations all year.

You know that hearing you guys whine about Malakhov is getting very tiring. Granted he is not living up to expectations but he isn't nearly as bad as all of you make him out to be.

He's become this board's Aki Berg.

Oiler fan dropping in here. I think you're seeing this all over the NHL because the requirements of the position have changed so drastically. There's nothing slowing down the forward as he skates through the neutral zone (no more hook and drag) and when the puck is shot in it's basically a straight race with the goalie unable to help the cause (if the puck is shot in correctly).

Slow footed defender (I'll use Cory Cross here) is at a disadvantage. He'll be gone as soon as the contract comes off the books.

The defender also has to play it straight up at the blueline just in case the puck carrier decides to come in and beat the defenseman one on one. There was a play the other night in an Oiler game where the Boston winger (Samsanov I believe) made a solid deke, forced Cross to hook him (and get a penalty) and STILL got by him with the puck so easily it was sad.

Ref's arm goes up, and if the Bruins hadn't scored it would have been a penalty.

Cory Cross is dead in the water. The hooks, holds and leans that have kept him employed in the highest league available sleep with the calligraphers.

The new breed of NHL defenseman is more Bruce Driver than Ken Daneyko (to use two former Devils who I believe were partners about 100 years ago).

jmo.

Oiler fan dropping in here. I think you're seeing this all over the NHL because the requirements of the position have changed so drastically. There's nothing slowing down the forward as he skates through the neutral zone (no more hook and drag) and when the puck is shot in it's basically a straight race with the goalie unable to help the cause (if the puck is shot in correctly).

Slow footed defender (I'll use Cory Cross here) is at a disadvantage. He'll be gone as soon as the contract comes off the books.

The defender also has to play it straight up at the blueline just in case the puck carrier decides to come in and beat the defenseman one on one. There was a play the other night in an Oiler game where the Boston winger (Samsanov I believe) made a solid deke, forced Cross to hook him (and get a penalty) and STILL got by him with the puck so easily it was sad.

Ref's arm goes up, and if the Bruins hadn't scored it would have been a penalty.

Cory Cross is dead in the water. The hooks, holds and leans that have kept him employed in the highest league available sleep with the calligraphers.

The new breed of NHL defenseman is more Bruce Driver than Ken Daneyko (to use two former Devils who I believe were partners about 100 years ago).

jmo.

He makes an excellent point, and also the devils used to rely tremendously on broduers ability to disrupt a forecheck and make a breakout pass alone; that is no longer; Like I said many times the devils talent on defense is bad but no worse than any other nhl team; I think the devils passive forecheck allows teams to dump and chase and come through nuetral zone easier than most, making our d look worse than they are; see my post "why our d looks terrible"

You know that hearing you guys whine about Malakhov is getting very tiring. Granted he is not living up to expectations but he isn't nearly as bad as all of you make him out to be.

Don't make Malakhov a scapegoat for a defensive unit that hasn't lived up to its expectations all year.

I am glad I am not the only one who thinks this way. I get tired of reading these posts on how horrible he is. I've seen more than enough games this season and he hasn't looked half as bad as a lot of people have portrayed him.

The previous season it was Hale, then the year before it was Tverdovsky. :shakehead The reason the team is losing is much deeper than Malakhov's play.

The team has trouble making solid passes, it has trouble holding onto the puck when it receives it, Brodeur hasn't been exactly stellar. Scoring has been hit and miss. There is no drive in the team, well not for 60 mins thats for sure. There is no captain. No Elias. Robinson has put up some weird lines. Mogilny shouldn't be on the checking line, and he shouldn't have been playing with Parise earlier in the season, either.

The consistant Malakhov hate is amazing considering there are a ton of other problems on this team.

Just throwing in an outsiders view here.

Wasn't it a regular thing with the Devils to pair an offensive-minded defenseman with a defensive-minded one? There were many surprised folks out there when Lou signed Malakhov (the worst FA acquistion outside of Sascha Khavanov with the Leafs and Thibault with the Pens IMO).

Only being able to watch a couple of Devils games this year, I'm quite surprised to see many talking about how horrible Paul Martin is defensively. From what I've seen, he's been pretty solid as far as breaking down lanes and reading plays, and has even developed his own little soft-check. I'm just not seeing how bad he is here.

I'm in full belief that the offensive paired with a defensive system works; was a Matvichuk-Rafalski and McGillis-Martin tried before? If it wasn't, could it hurt to try?

He's become this board's Aki Berg.


:biglaugh:

Aki >>> Malakhov

:biglaugh:

malakhov makes the 3.6, if he was making 1.5, He wouldnt get the abuse he's getting. Not to mention he's signed for next sesaon too. So were going to have to die with him for another year.

All the Malakhov bashing is deserved.

McGillis is getting too much bashing in my opionion. He hasnt been THAT bad.

and he only makes 2.2 mill.

McGillis doesn't have the offensive upside of Malakhov and his defensive skills have been almost as bad. The only reason Robinson is playing Malakhov over McGillis is that no one else on the team seems to want to (be able to) take a shot from the point during the PP.

Malakhov has not been as terrible as posted here. He has not been the savior, either. As others have said, since he makes so much money, the expectations, right or wrong, are higher.
McGillis does nothing. He throws an occasional hit and then promptly vanishes. He is the bigger FA bust of the two.
The bigger issues are the now-glaringly obvious defensive weaknesses that Rafalski and Martin have shown.

McGillis doesn't have the offensive upside of Malakhov and his defensive skills have been almost as bad. The only reason Robinson is playing Malakhov over McGillis is that no one else on the team seems to want to (be able to) take a shot from the point during the PP.

I would not go to crazy about Malakhov's offensive upside. He has 4 goals and his rocket shot is often nowhere close to being on net. It is certainly better then McGillis.

Malakhov has been awful. There is no way you could have watched a good amount of Devils hockey this season and say different. Each night he is in the wrong spot and out of position. He is always getting burnt and being made to look silly. Players skate around him constantly. His +/- in fairness to your point is not all attributed to him as he is 1 player in the big picture and usually 1 of 4 or 5 players on the ice that are cause for mistakes. But when he makes a mistake he REALLY makes a mistake. I think his problem is he gets demoralized when he makes one mistake. I think he is a player where his confidence is a factor more then others.

Against the Caps earlier this year he assisted on an Ovechkin goal. Against someone (I can't remember the team) he skated to the neutral zone as an opposing skater was rushing into the zone and missed the puck which resulted in a goal. He turnsover the puck way to much. All 180 starting defenseman make mistakes. But when he makes a mistake it is a big mistake and it backfires on us. He is never able to clear the puck in front of Marty. He is afraid to hit. He makes $3.6 which is more then Wade Redden, Chris Phillips, Alexei Zhitnik, Janne Niminaa and almost what Gonchar makes. He is 36 years old.

All of the bashing he is getting is much deserved.

I would not go to crazy about Malakhov's offensive upside.

Malakhov has been awful. There is no way you could have watched a good amount of Devils hockey this season and say different.

All of the bashing he is getting is much deserved.

I agree with the first two points above. Malakhov has been awful. My point though is that the defence as a whole has been awful and so I don't think that singling him out is deserved. Like I mentioned in a previous post, the only D-men that I can say have earned their keep this year are Colin White and maybe Matvichuk.

Rafi and Martin haven't lived up to the smooth-skating, good offensive D-men reputation that they were meant to be.

McGillis can't score and is rarely a factor in the game. And when he is, it is not for the best reasons.

Brown had a good week or two and then reverted to the player he was previously.

White is solid.
Matvichuk has mostly good nights but is missing consistency.

I do agree that McGillis hasn't helped much, Malakhov has underperformed (although not as extreme as so make to be), Brown has has been sporadic in play. But thats the thing, its the entire defensive corps that is troubled.

Take a look at the role that Paul Martin had to step into. In 03-04 he wasn't really considered a solid defensive defenseman and probably most of you would agree. Previously, it seemed people were hoping he'd someday take the reigns from Niedermayer in terms of offensive play and on the PP. But now this season he is expected to take over so much more defensive responsibilities, which he is not ready for (at least not yet).

With Raffi, it is a similar situation. In 03-04, he was making a ton of defensive mistakes, especially after Stevens went down. As soon as the load of defensive responsibilities came his way, he wasn't as successful.

To get to the point, those guys are being counted on to shoulder a huge defensive role, which they're not idealy suited for. Let's not forget they're a bit "undersized" as well.

These are ALSO sound reasons to why the defense hasn't faired well.

I do agree that McGillis hasn't helped much, Malakhov has underperformed (although not as extreme as so make to be), Brown has has been sporadic in play. But thats the thing, its the entire defensive corps that is troubled.

Take a look at the role that Paul Martin had to step into. In 03-04 he wasn't really considered a solid defensive defenseman and probably most of you would agree. Previously, it seemed people were hoping he'd someday take the reigns from Niedermayer in terms of offensive play and on the PP. But now this season he is expected to take over so much more defensive responsibilities, which he is not ready for (at least not yet).

With Raffi, it is a similar situation. In 03-04, he was making a ton of defensive mistakes, especially after Stevens went down. As soon as the load of defensive responsibilities came his way, he wasn't as successful.

To get to the point, those guys are being counted on to shoulder a huge defensive role, which they're not idealy suited for. Let's not forget they're a bit "undersized" as well.

These are all reasons that the defense hasn't faired well at all. You just can't use Malakhov as the scapegoat in an already flawed system.

He is making $3,600,000. He is playing like he is worth $450,000. If he was making $450,000 then I would lay off a little bit. Does it at all seem a coincidence the Devils are mediocre and Malakhov who is the worst of the defenseman on the team is getting 20 minutes of ice time a game? No team has ever kept Malakhov. They let him go via free agency or trade him. Like I said his mistakes are monumental.

Nobody will argue about the rest of the D. It goes past Malakhov like you said and others have made mistakes as well. But he certainly deserves the majority of blame.

Of all 6 defenseman he is the only one that not one of the 30 GM's would have any interest in. The Devils best period of the season defensively is when they played shut down defense against the Caps at the home end of back to back games against them. Malakhov did not play in the 3rd period.

I am sorry but you cannot blame me or anyone else for putting him in our doghouse as fans. There are other holes and quirks but he is not an asset. His mistakes actually lose us games. Those are HUGE mistakes. We invested way to much money on a veteran defenseman pending retirement.


Continue to watch games this year when other teams turn on the red light as the puck goes by Marty. See Malakhov standing in front of the crease after making no effort to get the puck out of danger. His transition is putrid because he never takes the puck away and starts it up ice. he has been completely unreliable.

McGillis leads the team in hits and that is after 5 consecutive scartches. He cannot score for his life. His defensive game has been nothing special. Matvichuk is solid but has bad games. Martin is having his worst season of the two. Rafalski cannot score but makes an effort and plays hard. White is solid. Name 1, just one thing that Malakhov has done this year that is a postivie thing and justifyable that he is making more then Brad stuart, Roman Hamrlik, etc. They all cohesively have issues stopping the rushes into the zone and turnover the puck. It is a collective problem. But Malakhov is by a huge margin the majority of this. How can you not see this watching the games?? All other defenseman on the team have done some good things in spurts this season. malakhov has done nothing. I would trade in his PP roll in a second for a half decent defensive effort.

Like I said all defenseman in the league make mistakes. But Malakhov makes to many and they are mistakes that constantly burn the team.

Perhaps if he was not the answer in replacing Scott Niedermayer then I would not be so bitter towards him.