Trade Value

So who do you think has more? Prusek or Denis?

I'm not ready to jump on the Leclaire bandwagon yet, because we just haven't seen enough of him at the NHL level. But if for some reason the organization should decide to make the bold move of throwing him in the fire at number one, who's the odd man out, and what kind of return could we honestly expect?

Is there any feasible option for keeping all three or do you think that's too much of a strain on the roster?



Personally, I'm leaning towards moving Denis. And not because I dislike him, think he sucks, yada yada....I just think this organization has turned sour on him and a change of scenery (one with a better defensive system and fewer bad memories) would do him some good. I honestly think Marc Denis has the skills to make a fine number one goalie somewhere in the NHL, I just don't see it happening in Columbus, for a multitude of reasons.


BUT!!!! How capable is Prusek should Leclaire pull that groin again???



Let's hear it.

Its no secret where I stand. Time to move Denis.

I would unload Denis over Prusek for a couple of reasons:

1. Leclaire is ready to be our #1.
2. Prusek is cheaper.
3. Prusek is used to the backup role.
4. Denis should be a given a chance to turn his game around with another organization and be that #1 guy.
5. Prusek has played a little better than Denis this year.

Again..let me reiterate that I am not out to get Denis..I don't think Denis sucks...I'm not secretly trying to end his playing career or date his wife... but for whatever reason this guy has looked terrible this year and its time to move on.

I really don't think we could get much for the guy. I hope I'm wrong. Right now, in the 'New NHL' I would take a mid round draft choice and/or prospect to move him and his 1.6 salary. Again, I hope we can get more for him but I'm not optimistic given what guys who have comparable stats like Thibault have been moved for.

Everyone knows where I stand on this too. I'm really not opposed to trading Denis (or Prusek), but I want a good return for Denis. I wouldn't make a trade simply to make one.

I still think Denis is an NHL starter. He's having a rough year, but I don't think the guy is done as a viable NHL player at all.

I think a 2nd line guy who can pot some goals isn't too much to ask as the base for the trade (possibly with picks needed to balance out value or some scrub contracts needed to balance money). Maybe there is a team out there who has a winger in a similar situation to Denis, where he's been successful in the past, but is struggling right now. Good old change of scenery.

People cite the recent situations with Lalime and Thibault as being indicative of a guy like Denis' value, but I don't buy that. Lalime was moved on the cheap because they brought in Hasek and Thibault was moved because of Khabibulin. Pens put Thibault on waivers and people passed, but they'd be on the hook for him at $1.5 million through next year.

Denis is owed $1.6 million, but can be a RFA and probably would get a lesser contract at this point. Plus he's younger.

Alright Kallio..who would you trade...Superman or Spiderman...


Its no secret where I stand on this... ;)

Denis' or Prusek's trade value will never be higher than what it will be at around the trade deadline, IMO. If one of them gets moved, it should be then, when some team in the playoff hunt with goaltending depth issues would give a higher return than what they would give now.

Is there anyway we can package Denis up for a Jason Blake trade?

That guy is awesome and a Blais/Blake tandum gives me a semi.

Is there anyway we can package Denis up for a Jason Blake trade?

That guy is awesome and a Blais/Blake tandum gives me a semi.

I'd absolutely LOVE to land Jason Blake.

Make it so Doug.

I'd absolutely LOVE to land Jason Blake.

Make it so Doug.


I Doubt it would happen but I'd do this:

NYI: Denis + Picard (2.5M)
CBJ: Jason Blake (1.5M)

I Doubt it would happen but I'd do this:

NYI: Denis + Picard (2.5M)
CBJ: Jason Blake (1.5M)

I wouldn't and neither would the Isles.

If the Jackets are going to part with young guys, I'd shoot for a higher target than Blake (and I like Blake). Plus, that DiPietro kid is pretty good. I doubt they'd move a guy of Blake's calibre for a backup goalie.

Alright Kallio..who would you trade...Superman or Spiderman...


Its no secret where I stand on this... ;)

Well, I like Spiderman better, but Superman has more upside. I'm really more of a Batman guy personally. :)

You guys are a bit overeager to give the reins to a kid with a total of 2 wins in the NHL, both in shootouts. Granted, he has been playing well lately, but goaltender is by far the streakiest (eek) position in hockey. We need quite a bit more of a look at the situation before jumping into anything. If Leclaire goes cold after we dump Denis, can you imagine the outcry? No way this should happen until we are much closer to the trade deadline.

And I'm sorry, I still like Denis. He made a poor decision to take a lockout vacation, but he has a LOT of miles in him. My preference would be to dump Prusek and have two goalies actually contending for the #1 position.

You guys are a bit overeager to give the reins to a kid with a total of 2 wins in the NHL, both in shootouts. Granted, he has been playing well lately, but goaltender is by far the streakiest (eek) position in hockey. We need quite a bit more of a look at the situation before jumping into anything. If Leclaire goes cold after we dump Denis, can you imagine the outcry? No way this should happen until we are much closer to the trade deadline.

And I'm sorry, I still like Denis. He made a poor decision to take a lockout vacation, but he has a LOT of miles in him. My preference would be to dump Prusek and have two goalies actually contending for the #1 position.

Finally, another voice of reason on this matter.

I really am startled by the hasty cold shoulder I've seen Denis get from MANY fans.
I dig Leclaire, don't get me wrong, but Denis is a good NHL tender that has his day still ahead of him.
I'd hate for it to be with another team.

Joe Thornton


And get rid of Denis at the trading deadline, but we may have to move someone soon as we can't have three goalies on our roster.

So my question is this to the pro-Denis camp.

Exactly how long do we ride Denis until your ready to move on? How many more losses until your ready for a change? What exactly has this guy done in the past 4 years that has been so great that makes you want to keep giving this guy chance after chance? Our team has gotten consecutively worse since he's took over between the pipes. Its not all his fault but obviously changes are needed and teams are built from the pipes out.

Again...I was willing to give MD the benefit of the doubt over the past 3 years b/c either our D sucked..or O sucked...coaching sucked..etc, etc. but enough is enough. He is out of excuses. Its time to start putting up the the stats that matters the most 'Wins'!

CBJ Goaltenders records in 05-06:
Denis
3 - 11

Prusek
3 - 3

Leclaire (who lets not forget is a rookie)
2 - 5

I respect everyone opinions but I'm just not seeing why Denis deserves more 'chances' to prove himself.

So my question is this to the pro-Denis camp.

Exactly how long do we ride Denis until your ready to move on? How many more losses until your ready for a change? What exactly has this guy done in the past 4 years that has been so great that makes you want to keep giving this guy chance after chance? Our team has gotten consecutively worse since he's took over between the pipes. Its not all his fault but obviously changes are needed and teams are built from the pipes out.

Again...I was willing to give MD the benefit of the doubt over the past 3 years b/c either our D sucked..or O sucked...coaching sucked..etc, etc. but enough is enough. He is out of excuses. Its time to start putting up the the stats that matters the most 'Wins'!

CBJ Goaltenders records in 05-06:
Denis
3 - 11

Prusek
3 - 3

Leclaire (who lets not forget is a rookie)
2 - 5

I respect everyone opinions but I'm just not seeing why Denis deserves more 'chances' to prove himself.

Well, Leclaire's record isn't indicative of his performance, and I believe we should give Marc the same respect. (if not more) This team is playing much better now than when we still let Marc start, and I think it would be fair to let him maybe play in back of this newer squad to evaluate him on the same plane as Leclaire.

Denis was making all the same saves as Leclaire is and was stealing games for us when our D blewwwwwwwwwwww last season and before. He has let a few softies in in games where we were for the most part already beaten in. You have to score goals to win. So yes, Denis has some work to do to get some respect back, but I personally haven't given up on him. I really honestly think he can regain his poise and game and get some wins.

Denis gets another chance because he has been the KING of giving us another chance in our entire history, IMO.

And I guess, ultimately, when Denis starts losing games because it's his fault, then I would understand the need to move on.

But, I haven't seen it yet. I blame the forwards more for our record than I do Marc Denis.

So my question is this to the pro-Denis camp.

Exactly how long do we ride Denis until your ready to move on? How many more losses until your ready for a change? What exactly has this guy done in the past 4 years that has been so great that makes you want to keep giving this guy chance after chance? Our team has gotten consecutively worse since he's took over between the pipes. Its not all his fault but obviously changes are needed and teams are built from the pipes out.

Again...I was willing to give MD the benefit of the doubt over the past 3 years b/c either our D sucked..or O sucked...coaching sucked..etc, etc. but enough is enough. He is out of excuses. Its time to start putting up the the stats that matters the most 'Wins'!

CBJ Goaltenders records in 05-06:
Denis
3 - 11

Prusek
3 - 3

Leclaire (who lets not forget is a rookie)
2 - 5

I respect everyone opinions but I'm just not seeing why Denis deserves more 'chances' to prove himself.

Here's a stat you missed:

Denis : $1.6 mil
Prusek : $625,000
Leclaire : $627,000

In the new NHL, cap room = trade flexibility....That is going to be necessary with such a young team.

Well, Leclaire's record isn't indicative of his performance, and I believe we should give Marc the same respect. (if not more) This team is playing much better now than when we still let Marc start, and I think it would be fair to let him maybe play in back of this newer squad to evaluate him on the same plane as Leclaire.


I honestly don't think the team is playing that much better now than with Denis. The key is that Leclaire is making the saves he's supposed to which is giving the offense more confidence. Just from playing D-league I can tell you how deflating it is when your goaltender gives up 2 goals on 12 shots - it feels like whatever you do its not gonna matter.

But for schittes and giggles (and b/c I don't wanna work!) lets look at Denis' past 4 starts vs. Leclaire's from a shot perspective which can be used to guage a team's performance:

Denis:
Nov 11th 20 SOG 18 saves - Loss
Nov 13th 23 SOG 18 saves - Loss, pulled
Nov 16th 16 SOG 14 saves - Loss
Nov 20th 33 SOG 28 saves - Loss


Leclaire:
Nov 25th 32 SOG 27 saves - Loss, pulled
Nov 30th 34 SOG 32 saves - Win
Dec 1st 44 SOG 40 saves - Loss
Dec 8th 40 SOG 37 saves - Win

That's just a quick snapshot in the past 4 games. As you can see the team has actually given up a heckuva lot more shots over Leclaire's past 4 games compared to Denis yet we have two more wins. Anyway you slice it the goaltender has played a huge role in those wins.

I'm tryin real hard to justify keepin Denis on this team and listen to everyone's arugments but it still isn't adding up to much IMO. The injury factor is a good point but I'm willing to take my chances with Prusek as a backup. Is it a risk - yes, but the reward is far greater if PL's play continues to improve. As far as I'm concerned the job is Leclaires and since this season is already in the toilet lets give him the rest of this year to gain valuable experience for next year. Our record certainly can't get much worse :) Ship Marc off (get as much in return as you can) to a team looking for a #1 guy and give him a fresh start as he has been a good member of our oganization and deserves that respect.

I honestly don't think the team is playing that much better now than with Denis.

No need to debate when we can't agree on this. :dunno:

This team is playing better or I am watching worse.

No need to debate when we can't agree on this. :dunno:

This team is playing better or I am watching worse.

Ok..how about..the goaltending and PP are playing better..! That'll I agree on. ;)

PK is worse though.

The shot difference is interesting, but I think part of that is because Leclaire kicks out a lot of rebounds, more so than Denis. That isn’t a criticism, just an observation.

I think this team is playing better in front of Leclaire. They’re scoring more goals per game, but more importantly, they’ve been the FIRST team to score in these wins. Now we go all chicken-and-egg -- does the opposition score first on the Jackets because Denis sucks or because the CBJ offense just couldn’t get it going early in games?
I think people forget that Denis has lost several games that really were not his fault. He’s had at least two, maybe three games, where he held the opposition to two freaking goals and this team couldn’t muster more than one in support. With the offense Leclaire is getting (and its not just goals, its all aspects of the offense. This team is definitely playing better and more confident on the opponents end of the ice now, I can’t believe anyone would disagree with that.) Denis would have a few more wins, putting the W-L records a little more in order.

My big defense of Denis at this point is that I don’t see the harm in keeping three goalies around. Its like the same rationale of having to have EXACTLY seven dmen. Depth is not a bad thing.
I know its against the norm, but considering this team is cursed with injuries and all three goalies have some short comings, be it inconsistency or inexperience, I see no reason to trade Denis IF the market for him is scraps.
This team needs all the ammo it can get.

Plus, as I’ve said before, despite his play this year, Denis has been a good (not great) goalie for this team in the past. I refuse to believe that ability has just up and left him. I would rather not see that talent return with him in another jersey, unless, as I’ve said, the Jackets can get a good return for him.

I like Pascal, but I think some people are getting a little too carried away with the whole shiney-newness of Mr. Leclaire, as we do with pretty much all of the young players. We give him a pass because he’s young, so we attribute mistakes that he had a hand in to being mistakes by the team. Sound familiar?
The Isles game was such a classic Marc Denis game that it isn’t even funny.

Why would Columbus move a prospect at the trade deadline for an established player? Don't teams who are making playoff runs give up prospects for "the missing piece"

As far as i'm concerned, we're not a puzzle piece away, we're 16 moves away from solving a Rubix Cube

Why would Columbus move a prospect at the trade deadline for an established player? Don't teams who are making playoff runs give up prospects for "the missing piece"


Agreed. Columbus will be the team moving veterans, not prospects. Not the other way around.

I like Pascal, but I think some people are getting a little too carried away with the whole shiney-newness of Mr. Leclaire, as we do with pretty much all of the young players. We give him a pass because he’s young, so we attribute mistakes that he had a hand in to being mistakes by the team. Sound familiar?
The Isles game was such a classic Marc Denis game that it isn’t even funny.
We've also got to remember that Leclaire has yet to prove he's a #1 at the AHL level. Last year's injury set him back in that department, and before them it was KG owning him up all over the place and IMO he needs to prove to us that he can handle a starting gig in the SYR.

Denis is NOT bad by any measure. I think by the end of the season we'll all be back on the Denis rebound because he's going to (eventually) find his game

Let's remember:

Denis > Hulse > Rupp > Hrdina

:)
It's nice to see all you Denis lovers after last night's game!

:)
It's nice to see all you Denis lovers after last night's game!

Not this guy. I'll change my tune if he starts putting up some 'W's. Until then I stand by starting Leclaire the rest of the year. The guy has been the best tender since training camp and I'm not jumping off the train just b/c a rookie had a bad road game against one of the best offensive teams in the league who haven't won a game in 5 straight. Not to mention he played the night before.

I will give Denis props for coming in and playing the best I've seen him play this year in a difficult situation. He made a couple really good stops on the breakaways. I'll be more than happy to eat some crow if he can string some 'W's together. Afterall, its all about winning.

:)
It's nice to see all you Denis lovers after last night's game!

Speaking for the loyal opposition: Some of us know perfectly well that Denis can play a strong game every now and then. The problem is that on a regular basis he plays just well enough to lose.

I think the primary thing he accomplished Sunday was to restore a little of his trade value.

Does anybody really believe he has ironed all the kinks out of his game? (I hope he has, and wish him all the success in the world. But that doesn't mean I'm going to put on blinders and ignore his track record.)

Let's all hope he proves me wrong.

I still don’t think his game is that kinked. He has always made some mistakes, for sure, but I think his biggest problem this year has been confidence. Well, first it was rust, which gave way to confidence problems.

He’s strung together a few good games now. Maybe he’s ironed out those issues?

Give the guy three goals in support and he’s going to win more than he loses.
He isn’t Patty Roy, but I still believe the Jackets can win with him.

Is he being showcased for a trade? Maybe. (I still think you’ll see Prusek dumped, if someone is out) If he goes though, I don’t think it will be because of his play, I think it’ll have more to do with the fact that a) I think he has decent value and b) he’s owed a new contract.

Speaking for the loyal opposition: Some of us know perfectly well that Denis can play a strong game every now and then. The problem is that on a regular basis he plays just well enough to lose.

I think the primary thing he accomplished Sunday was to restore a little of his trade value.

Does anybody really believe he has ironed all the kinks out of his game? (I hope he has, and wish him all the success in the world. But that doesn't mean I'm going to put on blinders and ignore his track record.)

Let's all hope he proves me wrong.

Well said.

I'll be more than happy if Denis plays well b/c that means we are winning. I still don't see him in the plans next year due to Leclaire's emergence and cap constraints. If Doug gets a solid offer I'd move him.

Some of us know perfectly well that Denis can play a strong game every now and then. The problem is that on a regular basis he plays just well enough to lose.


Well, you're right, he hasn't scored a damn goal all season.

To me, the bolded sentence means: Nobody scores a goal even when he plays great.

Burn him at the stake.

I'd consider moving Prusek. He can't be happy about been a healthy scratch and that seems to look like what will happen for a while. He only signed a one-year deal. If he is unhappy with how this is going he might not be willing to sign with us next year anyway.

Well, you're right, he hasn't scored a damn goal all season.

To me, the bolded sentence means: Nobody scores a goal even when he plays great.

Burn him at the stake.

Say what? I mean, you can spell your name S-m-i-t-h and pronounce it "Jones" if you want. But I live in a world where words have relatively fixed meanings, and that sentence says what it means: Denis will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory much more often than he does the reverse.

The only people I would advocate burning at the stake are people who intentionally misconstrue simple, straightforward observations. Good thing we don't have anybody like that around here, eh?

Say what? I mean, you can spell your name S-m-i-t-h and pronounce it "Jones" if you want. But I live in a world where words have relatively fixed meanings, and that sentence says what it means: Denis will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory much more often than he does the reverse.

The only people I would advocate burning at the stake are people who intentionally misconstrue simple, straightforward observations. Good thing we don't have anybody like that around here, eh?

laugh out loud. I think we disagree. It's okay....it really is.

*note to self, TBJF and I may have 'gone down the wrong path'....

Please, if you meant me, don't burn me. Please.

For all you crazies looking to gague trade value -- Lalime has just went on waivers. If he doesn't get claimed, that will be the 2nd bottomfeeding team that has waived their starting goaltender..

Meaning? There may be little or no trade value for the likes of Denis.

laugh out loud. I think we disagree. It's okay....it really is.

*note to self, TBJF and I may have 'gone down the wrong path'....

Please, if you meant me, don't burn me. Please.

I wouldn't think of it, just yanking your chain a bit. Heck, I hope you're right, and MD makes me look like an idiot. (He wouldn't be the first ....)

Besides, they don't let me play with flamable substances anymore .... :blush:

For all you crazies looking to gague trade value -- Lalime has just went on waivers. If he doesn't get claimed, that will be the 2nd bottomfeeding team that has waived their starting goaltender..

Meaning? There may be little or no trade value for the likes of Denis.

That certainly may be the case. But, Denis has one thing those guys don’t - history with only one team. Meaning, its easy to look at Thibault and Lalime and write them off because they’ve been run out of a few different cities in their careers.

Whereas, I think Denis -- who is younger, but not by much -- still has that glow that maybe, with the change of scenery, he can have success.
Thibault and Lalime both have multiple failures on their resumes, but I don’t think Denis carries that same stigma. Those guys are “washed up.” Denis is “in a bad situation,” I think that is the perception.
Add to that the fact that he is cheaper than Lalime and locked up for less years than both Thibault and Lalime, and I don’t think Denis’ value is quite an equivalent.

I’m not saying Denis would fetch a lot, mind you. But, I do think he has value, certainly moreso than the suggested comparisons.

:)
It's nice to see all you Denis lovers after last night's game!

Nope, I'm still here.

;)

I wouldn't think of it, just yanking your chain a bit. Heck, I hope you're right, and MD makes me look like an idiot. (He wouldn't be the first ....)

Besides, they don't let me play with flamable substances anymore .... :blush:

Add 'my chain' along with flammable substances to the list of things they won't let you play with anymore, please. :D

Nope, I'm still here.

;)

I wouldn't have it any other way.