Measuring stick

here is it, we suck. Please stop using the term everytime the Dev play a above .500 team. We've proven time and time again we cannot hang with the league's top teams. Yesteday was another great example. :shakehead

here is it, we suck. Please stop using the term everytime the Dev play a above .500 team. We've proven time and time again we cannot hang with the league's top teams. Yesteday was another great example. :shakehead
:clap: well said :sarcasm:

here is it, we suck. Please stop using the term everytime the Dev play a above .500 team. We've proven time and time again we cannot hang with the league's top teams. Yesteday was another great example. :shakehead


The Devils do not suck they are in disarray. Big Differnece.

I think our core of forwards has the potential to be highly explosive. I think our defense needs a little tweeking. I think we need a second line center. And I think our coaching staff needs an over-haul.

The Loss of Pat Burns, Bobby Carpenter, Scott Stevens, Scott Niedermayer and Patrick Elias all at once left the devils reeling.

But all these things can be rectified, because the Devils are still a pretty descent team. If in February we still in the same situation of mediocrity just clinging to .500 then you can complain. But right now, we are barely into December and the Devils org is STILL dealing with the major losses from the off season. Give it a bit of time.

But all these things can be rectified, because the Devils are still a pretty descent team. If in February we still in the same situation of mediocrity just clinging to .500 then you can complain. But right now, we are barely into December and the Devils org is STILL dealing with the major losses from the off season. Give it a bit of time.

Jim, you make some good points. However, what’s the explanation for the play of our core players. Take Madden, o.k. he's a shut down center who had some scoring punch, well, he's not shutting down anyone except for Joe Thornton, who's now in the west and couldn't hit the side of a barn using a beach ball. Gomez is totally inconsistent. He was one of our worse players last night. And Lagenbrunner as totally lost his game. I used to love the play of this guy, now I'm hoping we move him before no one want' s him. As for our defense, forget the other clowns, but so far in the new NHL, the very good skating tandem of Rafalski and Martin have been major disappointments. This is what worries me.

Jim, you make some good points. However, what’s the explanation for the play of our core players. Take Madden, o.k. he's a shut down center who had some scoring punch, well, he's not shutting down anyone except for Joe Thornton, who's now in the west and couldn't hit the side of a barn using a beach ball. Gomez is totally inconsistent. He was one of our worse players last night. And Lagenbrunner as totally lost his game. I used to love the play of this guy, now I'm hoping we move him before no one want' s him. As for our defense, forget the other clowns, but so far in the new NHL, the very good skating tandem of Rafalski and Martin have been major disappointments. This is what worries me.


A lot of things you mention are directly releated to coaching.

Coaching? Last time I checked Larry didn't play the game. Its up to Madden to get his butt in gear and start checking. Langs, is he still on the team? I thought he was still out. He's no where to be found on the ice. Team in disarray, please. Keep this team intact for the remainder of the season and we'll be battling for the 10th seed. Oh yeah lets keep waiting for the Messiah, Elias. By the time he gets back and get into the game speed we'll be 20point out of the 8th spot.

Its not the new NHL it's just the Devils. Lou really didn't know how valueable the Scotties where. He just thought another replaceable part. It didn't work out this time. We really have no leader on the team. More often than not the goalies are left stranded in no man's land. No one will ever take Madden and his 3.5 mil sal for 10 goals a year.

Coaching? Last time I checked Larry didn't play the game. Its up to Madden to get his butt in gear and start checking. Langs, is he still on the team? I thought he was still out. He's no where to be found on the ice. Team in disarray, please. Keep this team intact for the remainder of the season and we'll be battling for the 10th seed. Oh yeah lets keep waiting for the Messiah, Elias. By the time he gets back and get into the game speed we'll be 20point out of the 8th spot.

Its not the new NHL it's just the Devils. Lou really didn't know how valueable the Scotties where. He just thought another replaceable part. It didn't work out this time. We really have no leader on the team. More often than not the goalies are left stranded in no man's land. No one will ever take Madden and his 3.5 mil sal for 10 goals a year.As painful as it is for me to type this (sigh), I actually agree with SOME of the things you say. Langs has been invisible out there. Madden has no confidence to do what he was paid to do. He needs to reinvent himself, or he will be left behind after this year. And Lou's deals on defense aren't working out like any of us had hoped.

That being said, your prognostications of doom are a bit premature. We played a poor match last night, but have been playing better of late. One major setback on the road doesn't mean we throw in the towel. You'll probably point out that the entire season has been a disappointment, and it has, but as I said earlier, we ARE playing better. We have the luxury of time (not much, but another month or so). We can play over-.500 hockey with this team until Elias returns. We can stay in the hunt and make moves at that time. This is NOT a SCF team for sure, but deep down, we all knew it wouldn't be when Stevens officially retired.

Please everyone take a breath. These are professional players not a high school team so don't blame the coach if they don't show up to play. I think the problem is that they the players know the talent isn't there to to play to the level of the top clubs. So then there is the pressure to try to beat the weak one. These players read the papers as well. For year this club has realied on defense and Marty. Marty is now being exposed without the quality defense in front of him and the new NHL so he isn't much help as before plus he is out of shape and now injured (maybe).

It will take the time necessary for Lou to accept this is a new league and he needs to rebuild this team for the new league or be an also ran. It will be hard to trade these players for talent so we will have to wait for a few years for the rebuild.

So I don't expect much from the Devils.

Rebuilding is necessary to have a Cup challenging team in NJ.

We are a 1/3 of the way into the season and we haven't heard from Lou.

But please don't blame the coaching staff for a professional player not putting forth the effort. Blame them for not benching that player. But how can one bench the entire team except for a very few.

This problem is in Lou's lap. He has tied his hands with the cap. Elias isn't the savour this season. These present players don't have the talent for the new league to be a top contender.

I'm no devil, but i have seen a few of their games. This team is not the "SHOULD BE IN THE CONFERENCE FINALS" team like past years, but they are a dangerous team.

Certain teams will match-up well against this team, but i figure EVERY team has to take the Devils seriously.

They skate well (when playing with energy). They are opportunistic on offense (typical Devils style). Wait for Elias. And wait for Lou to do something smart...

Ultimately, they are in the middle tier of teams - which is a pretty big group of teams. So one hot streak and they are at the top of that middle group and in the playoffs...

anyway, my two cents...

You people make me laugh. The Devils lose one game and you've got your panties all in a bunch. It is still very early in the season. The Devils had a rough start but they have been playing a lot better as of late.

The defence hasn't been as sloppy as it was at the beginning of the year. For the most part, the ridiculous giveaways have stopped.

Are they a Cup-bound team? No. But I don't think that anyone thought that barring an amazing run by Marty in the playoffs the team would have a chance at the Cup this year. Are they a playoff-bound team? Probably. I figure they will end up somewhere between 7th and 10th in the Conference at this rate.

I think it is crazy to start talking about trading away the whole team, firing the coach and rebuilding from scratch. It just isn't realistic to expect Lou to dump on his team at this point in the season.

Langenbrunner has been inconsistent so far. It looks like he just isn't adjusting well to the new rules. But he has been a lot better than the start of the year.

Gomez has been inconsistent in October for most of his career. He has picked it up as of late. Remember last year, he was slow to start off but after the allstar break he tore up the league. He lead the league in points in the second half of the season and ended up tied for the league league in assists at the end of the year. He might not do it again this year but he will still pick up the pace until at least the Olympics.

Even Malakhov has improved as of late. His +/- hasn't changed much at all since Marty got back from the IR.

And just look at the stats so far...
Marty's record before his injury: 4-5-0
Marty's record after coming back: 7-3-0
Clemmer's record is 2-3-2

The Devils have 56 games left. Assume that Marty keeps playing the way he has (they may not but let's do it for illustrative purposes). In the remaining 45 games he plays, his record would be 31-14-0, while Clemmer would be 3-5-3 based on his current play in the other 11 games. This would be a combined 34-19-3 in the last 56 games. Add the 71 pts to the Devil's current 28 pts and they end up with 99 points. That would likely be good enough for a 5th or 6th place seeding in the East.

So even though it may not be likely, the Devils still have a good shot at the playoffs. Especially if Elias comes back fully healed.

A good team, not even saying a great team, should come back with an excellent effort tonight and a win at home after a performance like last night. However, if Calgary spanks them again tonight, I want changes. And it's not just one game concerning last night's lose. We got lucky against the Wild and couldn't beat an injury plagued Flyer team that's still winning. Hate to say, but that's a team with character!

Lose 1 game :dunno: Hmm I guess you haven't watch the games against Philly, Rags, or the Sens. It's how we are losing. Every night against good teams we give 1/2 the effort. The D is in shambles. They look like a bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off. I say lets stay with team. No trades at all and see if we really end up in 10th place. :propeller

Lose 1 game :dunno: Hmm I guess you haven't watch the games against Philly, Rags, or the Sens. It's how we are losing. Every night against good teams we give 1/2 the effort. The D is in shambles. They look like a bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off. I say lets stay with team. No trades at all and see if we really end up in 10th place. :propeller

The St. Louis Blues suck. (no offense to Blues fans, just making a point) The Devils do not suck. They are clearly not the Devils of 1995, 2000, and 2003 but they do not suck. They are in transition. They are a team capable of being very good (not elite like Ottawa). People keep talking about how the Devils have cap issues. cap issues is when a team has to dump salary and worsen the team to get under the salary cap. I would rather have Elias then any player Lou decides to trade or waive. They have holes and issues that need to be addressed but as a whole the team will be right there in it at the end.

How can you look at somebody with a straight face and say the Devils all out suck? With everything they have been through they are still 2 above .500 and have continues to get better as the season progresses.

i don't think they will totally suck...there are still some moves that can be made.

1. hale
2. elias
3. one trade for another dman

How can you look at somebody with a straight face and say the Devils all out suck? With everything they have been through they are still 2 above .500 and have continues to get better as the season progresses.

The fact that we've beaten 1-2 good team in 26 tries says to me we suck. Now that's my definition of being a suckie team. I'm not sure what your is. Thank god we played Pitts a couple of times otherwise we would have 1 win against teams in our division. Lets not forget that we have more goals against than goals for.

The fact that we've beaten 1-2 good team in 26 tries says to me we suck. Now that's my definition of being a suckie team. I'm not sure what your is. Thank god we played Pitts a couple of times otherwise we would have 1 win against teams in our division. Lets not forget that we have more goals against than goals for.
Oh cut the drama.
"we've beaten 1-2 good teams in 26 tries"
Do we have 26 losses?
I know we haven't been good against good teams but we are more like 1/2 and 10 instead of your 1/2 and 24, I don't know about you but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on those 14 games yet.

I'm no devil, but i have seen a few of their games. This team is not the "SHOULD BE IN THE CONFERENCE FINALS" team like past years, but they are a dangerous team.

Certain teams will match-up well against this team, but i figure EVERY team has to take the Devils seriously.

They skate well (when playing with energy). They are opportunistic on offense (typical Devils style). Wait for Elias. And wait for Lou to do something smart...

Ultimately, they are in the middle tier of teams - which is a pretty big group of teams. So one hot streak and they are at the top of that middle group and in the playoffs...

anyway, my two cents...

AGraveOne just took a pro Devil argument and hell just froze over.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel on those 14 games yet.

If they keep the same team as we have right now, we are in the same place were we will be come April.

Igilna(sp) come out in front has a chat with Marty and score. What a joke.

If they keep the same team as we have right now, we are in the same place were we will be come April.

Igilna(sp) come out in front has a chat with Marty and score. What a joke.

Are you sure you're not a Bruins fan? All this complaining about everything you act like we haven't won a cup in 30 years. You gotta learn to take the good years with the bad, man. We all know they aren't playing to expectations but at least try and get some enjoyment from the team.

We gave up two shots on goal and one goal, isn't that more like our teams of the past?

What year are we in?? Not 95-00-03.

Maybe it's like this - the devils don't match up well against good mobile defenses. That game last night, they had a lot of chances. Sauve's Rebounds were eaten up by the Flames though.

If Elias comes back as the Elias of before and Lou gets a dman...

Maybe it's like this - the devils don't match up well against good mobile defenses. That game last night, they had a lot of chances. Sauve's Rebounds were eaten up by the Flames though.

If Elias comes back as the Elias of before and Lou gets a dman...

Like Omen say's, Elias won't be the savior of the season. We need to get more mobile on the defensive end as Calgary and the Rangers have. And we also need to get bigger on the offensive end. Since we aren't winning the cup or even make the playoffs for that matter, a kid like Jordan Staal would be a good start. By 2007, I would love to have Staal, Zajack & Parise up the middle.

You gotta learn to take the good years with the bad, man.


Maybe that is the Issue?


There hasn't been a BAD year since 1990-91 80 32 33 15 79 points

Even the year the Devils missed the playoff in 1996 they had a decent record. 1995-96 82 37 33 12 0 86 points. That Year, if the Devil were in the West they would have HOME ICE in the First Round!!! In the East, it wasn't good enough for the playoffs.

So not having a Bad team in about 15 years creates a problem for the Children of this board. They don't ever remember seeing a bad NJ Devil Team.

I think I'm on to something here

The fact that we've beaten 1-2 good team in 26 tries says to me we suck. Now that's my definition of being a suckie team. I'm not sure what your is. Thank god we played Pitts a couple of times otherwise we would have 1 win against teams in our division. Lets not forget that we have more goals against than goals for.

This is the difference between mediocre and a very good team. what gets the Devils over the mediocre hump is if they start beating teams that are better then them record wise. When you win the games you are supposed to win that automatically assumes they do not suck. compared to 2000/2003 they suck. But in comparison to what is defined as sucks (aka a record of 7-12-5 as compared to 13-12-2) the Devils are average at best currently.

They have stood up to the teams like Ottawa and Philly. Those games wer not lopsided losses. The Devils will eventually be considered a better then average team. But they are not elite and to the extreme they certainly do not suck.

Like Omen say's, Elias won't be the savior of the season. We need to get more mobile on the defensive end as Calgary and the Rangers have. And we also need to get bigger on the offensive end. Since we aren't winning the cup or even make the playoffs for that matter, a kid like Jordan Staal would be a good start. By 2007, I would love to have Staal, Zajack & Parise up the middle.
I didn't mean to imply that Elias is the savior. I just think he adds a true finisher - like elite level. That will add a lot offensively.

The devils defense had certainly fooled me into thinking it had improved A LOT, but the last two games leaves me less sure of that. They have certainly improved, but they make BIG mistakes still.

I didn't mean to imply that Elias is the savior. I just think he adds a true finisher - like elite level. That will add a lot offensively.

The devils defense had certainly fooled me into thinking it had improved A LOT, but the last two games leaves me less sure of that. They have certainly improved, but they make BIG mistakes still.

No, no, it's o.k. I just see things that need to be changed before they will get better. Although, the return of Elias at his best would certainly help, there are much deeper problems. As I stated before, better passing skills and mobility from our defense and more size up front. To many of our key forwards are on the small side, Gomez, Gionta, Parise and Brylin, etc.

When was the last time you saw passion out of this team? Our record does not say it all. We are and will be much worst than a .500 team. We've gotten lucky in a few games. We are nothing making the playoff this year. The players we currently have will not turn it around. Malacrap and Matvisuck will not get better. Ralf and Martin will not all of a sudden start playing like real top defenseman. I mean Ralfi looks like he's as new to the Dev system as Matvisuck and Malacrap, it's incredible. Good lord bring back Scottie and Dano to work with the D. Larry set yourself on fire do something to spark a reaction. This team is a bunch of skating zombies. Madden get your 3+mil salary and forecheck a top scorer.

I think the Devils are in a rebuilding period. Lou isn't going to gut the team, but all the FAs are stopgap measures. He signed solid vets who are familiar with the Devils system to 2-year deals. As unpopular as the new D-men are here, their short contracts make give them trade value that will be even higher next year. I don't know if because Lou thinks the cap will be lowered or that players salaries will drop as more FAs flood the market, but most of the vet players won't be here in two years. I'm sure Rafalski would have taken less then 4.2 million a year if Lou offered a 4 year contract. I'm convinced he'll resign Elias and Brodeur, but beyond that all bets are off.

I think the Devils are in a rebuilding period. Lou isn't going to gut the team, but all the FAs are stopgap measures. He signed solid vets who are familiar with the Devils system to 2-year deals. As unpopular as the new D-men are here, their short contracts make give them trade value that will be even higher next year. I don't know if because Lou thinks the cap will be lowered or that players salaries will drop as more FAs flood the market, but most of the vet players won't be here in two years. I'm sure Rafalski would have taken less then 4.2 million a year if Lou offered a 4 year contract. I'm convinced he'll resign Elias and Brodeur, but beyond that all bets are off.

good points and i think all of repairman's "untouchables" list seems like keepers also