My Nomination for Educator of the Year

I just want to thank Swedish Bolt Fan for his ongoing efforts to try and help educate PantherNation on the evils of Rick Dudley. As a result, I'd like to nominate him as Lightning HF Educator of the Year. If selected, Swedish Bolt Fan, you'll receive a commemorative certificate, a 2.5 pound honey baked ham (its been half eaten by Jay Feaster), and a coupon for half off any "fun size" Cheeto brand product.

How about a nice round of applause for Swedish Bolt Fan for fighting the good fight everybody?

:handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=17113&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

-Pete Choquette

Hilarious! Way to go, SBF. And you, too, Pete. Those Panther fans are just in denial. Give them time.

Yeah, were really in denial. Dudley just flat out sucks. You know, stockpiling talent (Nedorost, Horton, Stewart, Bouwmeester, Taticek, Biron, Kudroc, Mezei) is a real bad thing.

Ha! Biron and Kudroc. Get the f' out of here Panther fan if you're going to flaunt two jabronies like Biron and Kudroc.

Point and laugh at the Panthers fan everyone.

:joker:

-Pete Choquette

Yeah, were really in denial. Dudley just flat out sucks. You know, stockpiling talent (Nedorost, Horton, Stewart, Bouwmeester, Taticek, Biron, Kudroc, Mezei) is a real bad thing.



Why win today when there is a tomorrow that might never come

Yeah, were really in denial. Dudley just flat out sucks. You know, stockpiling talent (Nedorost, Horton, Stewart, Bouwmeester, Taticek, Biron, Kudroc, Mezei) is a real bad thing.

Wait and see, Panther fan. Wait and see.

Hahahaha.

Sorry about supporting Dudley guys(you know my POV), didn't know it was that big of a deal till I got to page 5. I was going to point out the negatives but they'd already locked the topic.

Sorry about supporting Dudley guys(you know my POV), didn't know it was that big of a deal till I got to page 5. I was going to point out the negatives but they'd already locked the topic.


So i couldnt complete the list they asked for :rolly:

Guess they started to see the list was getting ugly

So i couldnt complete the list they asked for :rolly:
Guess they started to see the list was getting ugly

We did open another topic with the title "The Great Debate" you guys are welcome to come and argue, if you can do it in a civil manner. Wait, I forgot who I am talking to! :rant:

You didn't really forget or you would have corrected your post, you do know your allowed to go back and correct yourself before you click the button on the bottom of the page right? Five years from now you'll wish you were so forgetful; hell, amnesia would be the greatest anesthetic for you dimwitted yahoos.

I don't see the point on going to your board and refreshing this; if you kitty fans want to argue about how your team is going to be perpetually bad for years, come to this board

I'm going to do one more wrap up post on their board and then I'm done. Its beginning to be no fun waging a war of wits with unarmed people. And, by the way, if you want to see a lack of civility, look at the Panthers' fans' posts up and down those two threads. When someone posts the statistical "fact" that Cory Sarich scores 7 points a game and Branislav Mezei gets 8, that's the point that you know people have become completely irrational. In the end equation I think there are only two reasonable people on that board, and the rest you can load into a cannon and shoot to the moon for all I care.

I'm satisfied all the major myths have been debunked: 1.) Rick Dudley is a genius. 2.) Rick Dudley made the Lightning out of nothing. 3.) Rick Dudley is a master drafter/talent developer. If you look at the Panthers fans responses they have long since retreated to less idealistic fallback positions like "Well Rick Dudley had SOMETHING to do with the Lightning." Well yes, yes he did Panther fan. Demers/Espo/Murdoch also had SOMETHING (ie adding the two franchise players and half the top-4 d-men which can be seen as a bigger share of the puzzle than what Dudley added) to do with building the Lightning too.

The difference is, no one is running around calling Jacques Demers a "genius", Phil Esposito the "lone architect of the Lightning", or Donny Murdoch a "great drafter/talent evaluator". Panther fan would like to believe Rick Dudley is all these things, including "savior" too, and what we've done in debunking those myths is to prove that the Lightning are a product of multiple authorship, only a minority part of which is Dudley's doing, and that Panther fan is acting irrational when they throw roses at his feet and make him him out to be the second coming.

And that's a good thing.

-Pete Choquette

I also found the post where the guy calculated Sarich's and Mezei's AVERAGE pt per game total quite disturbing; but I didn't want to insinuate anything to rattle their coconuts. They're just a bunch of narc's anyways, we don't want them to OD on their medication now do we?

http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nhl/story/6736639

Some reading for Panther fan.

-Pete Choquette

http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nhl/story/6736639

1 Tampa Bay Lightning
No one is criticizing the iron-fisted approach of coach John Tortorella anymore.

Not even McIrish??

I also found the post where the guy calculated Sarich's and Mezei's AVERAGE pt per game total quite disturbing; but I didn't want to insinuate anything to rattle their coconuts. They're just a bunch of narc's anyways, we don't want them to OD on their medication now do we?


Obviously the decimal place was a spot too far to the right. We have no problem discussing rational hockey discussions. You all can dislike us all day long, we love it, and vice versa. But at least concede that with an opening night roster of 23, 9 players that PLAYED were Dudley's acquistions. That is the point. Dudley didn't do EVERYTHING for you but he didn't do NOTHING either. That cannot be disproven.

Until we get it on this year, this is the next best thing... As always, CHEERS from your friendly neighbourhood FLORIDA Panther fan.

Au Revoir.

:D

Take these visits as what they are, a learning experience for you lesser fans...

:teach:

But at least concede that with an opening night roster of 23, 9 players that PLAYED were Dudley's acquistions. That is the point.

OK, so 9 of 23 guys on our opening night roster were Dudley acquisitions.

...

::dramatic pause::

...

SO WHAT?! Who cares?!

Did anyone here EVER say anything even remotely along the lines of "Rick Dudley didn't do anything in Tampa"?! No! They didn't!

Rick Dudley didn't sit still in Tampa. THAT'S the problem, smart guy! He doesn't know when to quit.

Because of Dudley's impatience, the team was never allowed to gel. Because of Dudley's loyalties, we suffered through utterly inept players. Because of Dudley's obsession with finding hidden gems, we have virtually nothing to show for three drafts. Because of Dudley's cowardice, we almost lost our franchise player.

So we have 9 NHL-quality players to show for Dudley's three years at the helm. Terrific. That's beautiful. But, gee, let's think about it. Are those 9 guys a significant upgrade over the countless players (Tucker, Gratton, Nylander, Sillinger, Mara, etc.) and draft picks (two first-rounders, etc.) that Dudley traded away in order to acquire them? Are they an upgrade at all?

Dudley made a ton of trades while he was here, but the net result was a wash. The team that Rick Dudley left behind was only marginally improved (if at all) over the team he inherited. And THAT, Panther fan, is the point.

Particularly when you consider that any improvements can largely be attributed to the emergence of two players drafted on Espo's watch (Lecavalier and Richards). Say what you want about Khabibulin (a good trade by Dudley, albeit a gift from Cliff Fletcher), but keep in mind that was Dudley's THIRD attempt in THREE years to shore up his goaltending situation -- the first two being both expensive and disastrous in both the short- and long-terms.

But, hey, the man's a genius, right? :rolleyes:

Actually, Khabi was his 4th attempt, right?

He tried to pry away Roman Turek from the Blues for Darcy Tucker. Outgoing ownership vetoed the move. Turek was then had for a measly 3rd rounder to a conference rival.

Darcy Tucker>3rd Rounder
Roman Turek? Oh, dear.

It was Tucker and sweetner and I think the sweetner might have been as high as a 2nd round pick.

That's kind of like trying to trade Sarich for Boyle then finding out a couple months later all it takes is a 5th rounder. His perception of the value of players in the league is totally off.

-Pete Choquette

Obviously the decimal place was a spot too far to the right.

Actually no, Professor Chaos. He divided games played by points which is the inverse of what the proper equation to calculate PPG is. You, apparently, couldn't figure that out either... which leads me to the question: Do they even TEACH math in the public schools on that side of the state?

The real stats at the start of the season were:
Sarich: .138 PPG
Mezei: .117 PPG

Currently they are:
Sarich: .137 PPG
Mezei: .108 PPG

Which only further proves my point, which is why luongofan didn't correct his math. He knew if he plugged the numbers in properly the outcome favored Sarich. Better to fall on his sword about a math mistake, he probably figured, than commit an act of stupidity by handing the other side of the debate ammunition.

And you have the audacity to claim Lightning fans are stupid?

I am amused.

-Pete Choquette

Actually, Khabi was his 4th attempt, right?

He tried to pry away Roman Turek from the Blues for Darcy Tucker.

Good point. Forgot about that one. Jeez. In some cases the deals Dudley had outlawed by ownership are worse than the ones he made. And that's saying a lot.

And you have the audacity to claim Lightning fans are stupid?


::chuckle::

It is to laugh.

And you have the audacity to claim Lightning fans are stupid?

I am amused.

-Pete Choquette


Where?

:dunno:

Again it was you, Pete among others, that argued that Dudley had done nothing for your team. Not us.

And I must concede some here are not math professors like you or I Petey.

:D

Where?

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=17113&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=6

Pay attention you might actually learn something from actual knowledgeable fans, I have seen the dribble the Tampa fans write... It comes no surprise you would want to continue this conversation with an actual person on the same level as you...

I take as a compliment...

CHaos2k 10-14-2003 12:59PM

What's the matter Chumlee? Got a convenient case of amnesia? Aren't you just a paragon of virtue and integrity? :rolleyes:

There's your civility Panther fans.

-Pete Choquette

Take these visits as what they are, a learning experience for you lesser fans...

Now THAT'S funny! :joker: :rolly:

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=17113&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=6



What's the matter Chumlee? Got a convenient case of amnesia? Aren't you just a paragon of virtue and integrity? :rolleyes:

There's your civility Panther fans.

-Pete Choquette


Where?

Where did I call YOU stupid in that? You like to argue semantics eh?


Was it not you that said, this is a rivarly? Of course we are going to take pot shots? If anything I gave you a compliment... The one were I said you were on our same level... When obviously that cannot be the case.

How many times do I need to prove you wrong Pete? Your only solution to being proved wrong is the constant BS name-calling. And if you want to play that game, I'll bring it through the front doors of your "house"...

Now what?

:dunno:

You still don't have a leg to stand on. Looks like the score is 1-0 Panther Fan...

:D

I was more or less criticing the fact that he compared an offensive defenseman's production to a defensive defensemans production and went as far as to average their pts per season or w/e total...and even then there wasn't much of a difference

With all of this competitive hatred, its a shame we didn't start a fantasy hockey league to start the season and have 5 bolts vs 5 cats. I do the same thing with Dev and Fish fans/and Buc and Dolphin fans. Maybe next year...

Great way to test wits

Your only solution to being proved wrong is the constant BS name-calling. And if you want to play that game, I'll bring it through the front doors of your "house"...
You'd best not bring it here, that's all I have to say.

Basically the whole argument is summed up in post #17 by Joe. Not ONE of us ever says Duds did nothing here, just that the bad FAR FAR outnumbered the good, and to look at Tampa as some kind of shining example of Duds' "brilliance" is to discredit what was done before and after he left. Very simple.

Where did I call YOU stupid

Did I say you called me personally stupid? No numbnut. I said you called Lightning fans stupid, which you did. But here again, you shoot yourself in the foot because you've called me, personally, stupid too.

And I quote:

But don't ever come to our house and talk smack about our team and organization. Period. Stupidity proves itself wrong, and you sir, continue to prove it to all in the general radius of your loud mouth.

We will continue to enjoy the fruit harvested by Rick Dudley, good luck to you on the upcoming season.

CHaos2k 10-20-2003 6:46PM

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=19994&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

You done making a fool of yourself yet?

-Pete Choquette

Did I say you called me personally stupid? No numbnut. I said you called Lightning fans stupid, which you did. But here again, you shoot yourself in the foot because you've called me, personally, stupid too.

And I quote:



http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=19994&mode=linear&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

You done making a fool of yourself yet?

-Pete Choquette


:rolleyes:

Anyways, yeah I think that a fantasy pool would've been cool. Remember that. I would've loved to be in as a Bills fan... I know, I know... Panthers, now Bills? I get it... I am the black sheep...

:lol:

Next you'll be upset that I root for the Toronto Blue Jays... Damn Devil Rays... You can never trust a town with a two word name...

:D

Pete aside, I knew there was some competent life over here. And think of the warm welcome all the rest of our fans could recieve as well. Seriously though, I just like passionate fans, even if they are ragging on my team. You can never say I am a quiter...

I'll be back...

:teach:

I am the black sheep...


Worse, you like the PanZIES :lol:



Pete is our inspirational leader, just because not all of us agree with him doesn't mean we are suddenly Panther faithful. Pete is stating an opinion and backing it with facts, if that ain't competent life then go back that bottomless pit on the Panthers board.

You'd best not bring it here, that's all I have to say.

Basically the whole argument is summed up in post #17 by Joe. Not ONE of us ever says Duds did nothing here, just that the bad FAR FAR outnumbered the good, and to look at Tampa as some kind of shining example of Duds' "brilliance" is to discredit what was done before and after he left. Very simple.


Please, save it. If you think that what you wrote has anything to do with what I was saying you are wrong. Read the thread and then tell me how any of what you said had anything to do with what you wrote. In fact, what you wrote was my point exactly. Why can't some people give credit for what someone accomplished while keeping a objective mind frame? Sheesh...

Worse, you like the PanZIES :lol:



Pete is our inspirational leader, just because not all of us agree with him doesn't mean we are suddenly Panther faithful. Pete is stating an opinion and backing it with facts, if that ain't competent life then go back that bottomless pit on the Panthers board.


:lol:

A real classic... Facts, don't get me started. Please... Now that is funny...

Everyone just wants to have a good time...

:yo:

This is the complete list of players that were on your NHL roster last season

Prospal = Dudley
Lecavalier = Demers
Richards = Demers
St. Louis = Dudley
Boyle = Dudley
Modin = Dudley
Andrechuk = Dudley
Fedotenko = Feaster
Kubina = Demers
Clymer = Dudley
A.Roy = Feaster
Lukowich = Feaster
Sarich = Dudley
Taylor = Dudley
Svitov = Dudley
Laukkanen = Feaster
Pratt = Dudley
Keefe = Dudley
Bergevin = Feaster
Alexeev = Dudley
Neckar = Dudley
Cullimore = Demers
Dingman = Feaster
Olevstad = Dudley
Khabibulin = Dudley
Grahame = Feaster
Rumble = Feaster

Thats 4 for Demers, 15 for Dudley, and 8 for Feaster.

Lets examine the great Jay Feaster and his significant moves for that playoff year: Andre Roy...wow where does big bad Jay Feaster find this amazing talent?? Oh yeah wait A.Roy is one of *DUDLEY'S BOYS* from Ottawa what a coincidence (yea about as coincidental as Feaster picking up Trepanier its funny to see him try and emulate Dudley's moves), Fedotenko...nice contributer but worth losing Pitkanen??? Hell no its not. Lukowich I thought was a decent trade 27 year old d-man and 7th rounder for a 2nd rounder. Laukkanen, played only 2 regular season games so wasteful pickup. Bergevin, played only 1 regular season game so he didn't help get you to the playoffs. Dingman, enforcer acquired (along w/ Shane Willis) for Kevin Weekes, IMO the trade didn't work out too well but whatever. Grahame, good reliable backup but with Khabibulin in net who cares especially since you were already set with Weekes but I know Kevin wanted out of TB, and then Darren Rumble.

So as we Panther fans are saying Dudley and Demers were the main reason you made the playoffs NOT Feaster, oh and lets not forget your coach was another Dudley move LMAO!

Short, and exact.

I will leave the job done by previous and recent GM's aside, that is a pretty nice lineup. And not because of Dudley alone but the point waaaaaas, he helped. I know TB fans that are readings this for the first time won't understand it all, but your man Pete Choquette came to our board and chastised us for having the useless Rick Dudley as GM because he is a loser and never did anything of value in any of his stops, and basically that with these four players alone: Vinny, Brad, Cullimore, and Kubina could have won what you guys did last year without the help of the other additions.

:dunno:

Crazy? I thought so too...

Please, save it.
Well, that's friendly. :rolly:
If you think that what you wrote has anything to do with what I was saying you are wrong. Read the thread and then tell me how any of what you said had anything to do with what you wrote.
Joe said all that needs to be said on the matter, but some people just can't accept it. I don't need to read pages of arguments when it comes down to simple facts.

Anyway, I don't see anything useful coming out of this roundabout discussion, keep the insults out of it, and that goes for everyone. Next one closes it.

Life was MUCH better here when we ignored each other IMO.

What CHaos2k isn't telling you:

1.) Only half of the Lightning's top-6 forwards and only 2 if the Lightning's top-5 d-men from last year's playoff team came from Rick Dudley. CHaos2k also cheats by enlarging the Lightning's roster to 27 and including guys who had negligible contributions like Olvestad, Alexeev, and Keefe on the list of 15. When you value rate these players, as I did, you find it's a different story. No CHaos2k, Stan Neckar does not count the same as a Cullimore, Sarich, or Lukowich.

2.) Only 9 of the 23 players who made this year's opening roster came from Dudley. That's well less than half.

3.) Only 1 of the Lightning's scoring liners to start the season came from Rick Dudley and only one of the team's top-4 d-men (at even strength).

4.) There are currently 5 Demers/Espo/Murdoch draft picks (Lecavalier, Richards, Afanasenkov, Cibak, and Kubina) playing in the lineup for the Lightning. There are NO Rick Dudley draft picks.

5.) If Rick Dudley had stayed and had his way as GM his list would've been irradicated anyway because Vincent Lecavalier would be gone for Radek Bonk and Cory Sarich, instead of a 5th rounder, would've been gone for Dan Boyle. This is key, and Joe has been saying this to you in a polite way: LAST YEAR'S ROSTER WOULD'VE BEEN BLOWN UP AND VINCENT LECAVALIER LONG TRADED BEFORE IT EVER HAD A CHANCE TO GEL AND MAKE THE PLAYOFFS HAD RICK DUDLEY STAYED IN POWER HERE.

So... Conclusions (Again):

-Rick Dudley is NOT a genius.

-Rick Dudley did NOT build the Tampa Bay Lightning. It was a product of multiple authorship of which he had only a minority share.

-Rick Dudley is NOT actually a master drafter/talent evaluator.

I complied with CHaos' little mealy mouthed whining to produce a list and factual evidence backing these claims on the Panther board. All I asked in exchange was a simple posting of Rick Dudley's career win/loss record as a GM. Not complicated. Not as time consuming as publishing a fully researched list. JUST SHOW US RICK DUDLEY'S W/L RECORD AS A GM IN THE NHL!!! But he has refused to honor that request with the same cowardice and hypocrisy which we all just saw in his claims "I never called Lightning fans stupid." and "I never called YOU stupid."

Just like when I ask him to show me just ONE Rick Dudley drafted player on the Lightning roster he glosses it over, ignores it, and misrepresents it by saying "I'm sorry you expect every player drafted to be an impact player." No CHaos2k, I expect just ONE freaking Rick Dudley drafted player to make the Lightning team, especially when there are FIVE on this team from what pundits always labeled a disasterous Espo/Demers/Murdoch regime. Is that unreasonable? Surely "Yoda, Master of the Draft(ing in the Front Row)" could produce even a #7 defenseman or a 13th or 14th forward on the roster, right?!?!? But no, actually he couldn't. And you're not man enough to fess up to that. And that's sad.

You've worn out your welcome now, and I've worn out my foot from stomping a mudhole in you and the subsequent stress of taking it out and walking it dry. Sotnos my friend, you know what to do.

-Pete Choquette

Pete, between this and your game summary on the SSN board, I'd have to say you're on a hot streak (like Khabi) :)

This has been kinda beaten to death I think. I'll put a fork in it, if anyone has any serious objection, drop me a line.