When Elias Returns...

Watching Kozlov play the way he did in the third period last night, I would hate for him to be a cap casualty. Lets say when Patrick returns, his salary is at $3 million,due to missed games, how can we make that up? For sure not Sarge, he's been one of our best players so far and seems like he's suited for the new NHL. Who then? I included Oliwa and Marshal and a guess a defensemen, but who and still have to add their replacements salary even at the minimum... Help!

Watching Kozlov play the way he did in the third period last night, I would hate for him to be a cap casualty. Lets say when Patrick returns, his salary is at $3 million,due to missed games, how can we make that up? For sure not Sarge, he's been one of our best players so far and seems like he's suited for the new NHL. Who then? I included Oliwa and Marshal and a guess a defensemen, but who and still have to add their replacements salary even at the minimum... Help!Actually, the better Kozlov plays, the greater his trade value. I'd be ecstatic if he could average a PPG until Elias is ready to come back. When Elias does come back, we will need to move a forward for sure. If Parise and Kozlov have good chemistry, I can only imagine what Parise can do with a guy who can absolutely bury the puck like Elias. Or perhaps Elias goes to the Gomez-Mogilny line. Parise could then center Brylin and Gionta (or Langenbrunner?). Anyway, I just don't see Kozlov and his salary being in the equation. If he tears it up offensively until then, great for the Devils AND Kozlov. Trade him to a strong Western team for a descent prospect or draft pick. Of course if he starts to tank, we can trade him for the always popular bag of pucks.

Watching Kozlov play the way he did in the third period last night, I would hate for him to be a cap casualty. Lets say when Patrick returns, his salary is at $3 million,due to missed games, how can we make that up? For sure not Sarge, he's been one of our best players so far and seems like he's suited for the new NHL. Who then? I included Oliwa and Marshal and a guess a defensemen, but who and still have to add their replacements salary even at the minimum... Help!

Kozlov has played pretty decent. Brylin won't be traded. Unfortuantely anyway we slice it the Devils are going to lose somebody that fans do not want to see go. I predict White ($1.7) Kozlov ($1.7) and Oliwa ($836). That equals $4.2 give or take. Langdon is under contract and his salary is already configured under the cap. So that is Oliwa's repalcement. Hale will come in at $500+ for White. Kozlov will be replaced by Elias. Not a bad replacement I'd say. We would shed almost $4mill. Elias-Parise-Gionta and Brylin-Gomez-Mogilny. Hale on defence and he is ready.

Just what I think.

Sean Brown and Darren Langdon will be waived, and Langenbrunner will be delt back to dallas for a 2nd round pick.

David Hale will be recalled, and the devils will pretty much go with 22 players for a while until an injury.

Does anyone know the "real" amount of money that needs to be cut when Elias does finally come back? If its $3+ million we are going to have to get rid of more than just Kozlov

Does anyone know the "real" amount of money that needs to be cut when Elias does finally come back? If its $3+ million we are going to have to get rid of more than just Kozlov

His entire salary counts the entire time. There is no pro-rated becuase of injury salaries (thankfully, as that would be so abusable it isn't funny). You have to get back under the cap, counting his full salary, before he's allowed to return. The way it works, you're actually over the cap right now by almost 4 million. This is allowed due to Elais' IR status.

3.75

Does anyone know the "real" amount of money that needs to be cut when Elias does finally come back? If its $3+ million we are going to have to get rid of more than just Kozlov

It doesn't matter that Elias' salary is pro-rated, since every active player's salary would be pro-rated as well. So, the Devils would have to shed annual salary similar to Elias'.

My prediction is that it will come down to White, Langenbrunner, Oliwa, and Marshall all being traded/waived. What we've seen from Kozlov is just the tip of the iceberg. The guy is set to dominate with the new rules, and he finally seems to be putting it all together offensively (shooting more, passing at more opportune times). Rather than just holding on to the puck for inordinate amounts of time, he is controling the puck with a purpose. Additionally, he apparently loves it in NJ and loves being a Devil, always a plus. He also seems to be genuinely happy when a linemate scores. I've always had a good vibe from him as a teammate.

Anyway, Lou can't trade Kozlov AND Friesen... I'd only have a Gomez jersey left :cry:

How about if we cut Malakhov and langdon, then bring up David Hale.

How about if we cut Malakhov and langdon, then bring up David Hale.

Malakhov has played great though.

Is anyone sure that the Devils would be over the cap of $4 million if Patrick returned at say mid-season?

The teams doing well ... why not just trade Elias??

The teams doing well ... why not just trade Elias??

Many, many reasons. I'll start it off with the fact that he's our best skater (and one of the best in the league).

Now that I think about it, Kozlov is UFA anyway next season. Better he play's well until Patrick returns and we get some decent value for him. Hopefully, Zajac will sign and make the team next year. All the naysayers expected Lou not to get back anything for Friesen, and we got the Caps third. In Big Lou I trust.

Zajac if signed will play in the AHL next year. He needs big minutes to develop and isn't quite there yet.

How's Elias doing? Have they updated his status lately?

Is anyone sure that the Devils would be over the cap of $4 million if Patrick returned at say mid-season?I don't think they would be. I don't think the salary of Elias is counting towards the cap right now. I don't think the replacement rule counts.

If that is the case, then Patrik Elias' salary will unlikely count for the entire $4.18 million when he returns. Below are some figures to consider.

$4,180,000 - Patrik's full 2005-06 Compensation
$3,670,244 - What that would be for 72 games
$50,976 - Patrik's salary per game

I don't think they would be. I don't think the salary of Elias is counting towards the cap right now. I don't think the replacement rule counts.

If that is the case, then Patrik Elias' salary will unlikely count for the entire $4.18 million when he returns. Below are some figures to consider.

$4,180,000 - Patrik's full 2005-06 Compensation
$3,670,244 - What that would be for 72 games
$50,976 - Patrik's salary per game

This what I also heard. That his full salary won't count against cap when he returns. Does anybody from this board fully understand the cap, I doubt it. I'm stilling try to figure how the Allison and Lindros salary will count, since both are bonus laden contracts, the full amount won't be known until the end of the year... Now how does that work?

If 3.67 million needs to be freed up, that pretty much puts Malakhov squarely as the top guy to be considered for trades, etc. Malakhov's salary is $3.6 million this year and by doing this, only one other player (goodbye one Oliwa/Brown/Langdon). Sure, Malakhov is playing well and I like him on the blueline moreso than Matvichuk (for now); but if Malakhov goes, that means only one other NHLer has to go.

Anybody else and we're talking at least 3 Devils time going somwhere else. I don't think there's that many players from Albany to fill in right away and still be a playoff contender as the Devils are now.

EDIT: Why the suggestions for Langenbrunner? Is it purely salary? I know he's been taking some bad penalties as of late; but that shouldn't discount all the defense and offense he brings to NJ (and has brought for the last few seasons).

How's Elias doing? Have they updated his status lately?

The most recent update mentioned during a Devils telecast the other night was that he's been skating up to four times a week. Nothing new on a targeted date though.

McGillis and Langebrunner.

Didn't Lou state that he already has a plan in place for when Elias comes back? Seems to me he's already got the players nailed down and nothing short of a collosal team meltdown will likely sway those choices. Probably not a bad 2 or 3 games here or there anyways.

I don't think they would be. I don't think the salary of Elias is counting towards the cap right now. I don't think the replacement rule counts.

If that is the case, then Patrik Elias' salary will unlikely count for the entire $4.18 million when he returns. Below are some figures to consider.

$4,180,000 - Patrik's full 2005-06 Compensation
$3,670,244 - What that would be for 72 games
$50,976 - Patrik's salary per game

Holy crap. This needs a sticky. The actual part of the CBA, not the FAQ but the CBA, that was released states the players salary counts in full the whole time. There's no pro-rated part. There's really no removal of it (The FAQ states it that way because in the end that parts works out almost the same). And that the team is allowed to go over the cap to replace a player on IR. All the salaries count. It even says the part of the replacement up to the cap even counts after the replacement player is removed so the IR player can come back.

This makes total sense because otherwise, an injury to a big star HELPS the team by giving them pro-rated cap relief. But even if it didn't make sense, it is what hte CBA says.

Now, I'm all for the NHL being morons and having an injury loophole to get around the cap if someone would show a link to something that shows that. Do you have one?

The armchair capologists have already been wrong once conerning our situation; and unsurprisingly, you're predicting the worst case, armegeddon scenario for the Devils. I have an idea. Why don't we...

#1 wait until Patty's actually ready, and then see how everyone's playing.

#2 leave all the trades and cap **** up to LL since he basically wrote the damn CBA. :dunno:

Don't worry Liquidrange, I'm sure Lou will call you to make sure he's compying with the CBA.

I'm pretty sure that Elias's cap hit is reduced not because of a completely pro-rated cap hit but because Mogilny has been named as his replacement player.

Holy crap. This needs a sticky. The actual part of the CBA, not the FAQ but the CBA, that was released states the players salary counts in full the whole time. There's no pro-rated part...How exactly is Mogilny Elias' replacement? Mogilny was under contract before Elias was signed.

What is in the CBA about signing an injured player?

The armchair capologists have already been wrong once conerning our situation

I haven't been wrong about anything with this so you hinting that in regards to this is shady.


Lou doesn't need to consult me. Just because we're discusing the cap and I'm stating that we should go off of the best information we have doesn't mean I'm contradicting Lou. Nothing I've said contradicts Lou. I'm sure he knows Elias' full salary is counted right now.

This is just common sense here. Go off the best info we have. Some you seem to object to that. No idea why but hey, feel free to be an ostrich.

How exactly is Mogilny Elias' replacement? Mogilny was under contract before Elias was signed.

What is in the CBA about signing an injured player?

Wrong person with Mogilny. As for the CBA.


(d) In the event that a Player...becomes unfit to play...such that the Club's physician believes, in his or her opinion that the Player...will be unfit to play for at least (i) 24 calendar days and (ii) 10 NHL Regular Season games and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additonal Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement salary and bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and excluding the Upper Limit, solely as, and to the extent and for the duration, set forth below.

(iv) The replacement salary and bonuses for any Player(s) that replace(s) an unfit Player may be added to the Club's Averaged Club Salary until such time as the Club's Average Salary reaches the Upper Limit. A Club may then exceed the Upper Limit due to the addition of replacement salary and bonuses of Players who have replaced an unfit-to-play Player

Illustration: A Player with a Player Salary of $1.5 million becomes unfit to play for more than 24 days and 10 games. At the time the Player becomes unfit to play, the Club has an Averaged Club Salary of $39.5 million, and the Upper Limit is $40 million. The Club may replace the unfit-to-play Player with another Player of Players with an aggregate Player Salary and Bonuses of up to $1.5 million. The first $500,000 of such replacement salary and bonuses shall count toward the Club's Average Club Salary, bringing the Averaged Club Salary to the Upper Limit. The Club may then exceed the Upper Limit by up to another $1 million as a result of the replacement salary and bonuses. However, if the unfit-to-play Player once again becomes fit to play, and the Club has not otherwise created any Payroll Room during the interim period, then the Player shall not be permitted to rejoin the Club until such time as the Club reduces its Averaged Club Salary to below the Upper Limit.

As for the CBA.

(d) In the event that a Player...becomes unfit to play...such that the Club's physician believes, in his or her opinion that the Player...will be unfit to play for at least (i) 24 calendar days and (ii) 10 NHL Regular Season games and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additonal Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement salary and bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and excluding the Upper Limit, solely as, and to the extent and for the duration, set forth below. What do the ellipses between "In the event that a Player" and "becomes unfit to play" skip? I ask you this because Elias didn't "become unfit to play" during the period of the new CBA. Elias had already contracted hepatitis A prior to the summer ratification of the new CBA between the NHL and NHLPA.

What do the ellipses between "In the event that a Player" and "becomes unfit to play" skip? I ask you this because Elias didn't "become unfit to play" during the period of the new CBA. Elias had already contracted hepatitis A prior to the summer ratification of the new CBA between the NHL and NHLPA.

Thats the million dollar question I'm curious about also.

This what I also heard. That his full salary won't count against cap when he returns. Does anybody from this board fully understand the cap, I doubt it. I'm stilling try to figure how the Allison and Lindros salary will count, since both are bonus laden contracts, the full amount won't be known until the end of the year... Now how does that work?

Lindros was not eligible for a bonus contract, he signed for one yr at 1.5 and that’s all he gets. Allison has a NHL bonus structure that is laid out by the NHL (I believe). The bonus $$ are the only negotiable part of the bonus for Allison. If he makes the bonus aprox 3mil, that money will be added to Toronto's cap # to the upper limit, the left over money will than be added on to next years cap. Example cap at 37,250 add 3 mill = 39,000 TO cap is 1.750 lower next year as that extra money counts, for the next season. Toronto could have a cap number 3 mil lower than all the rest of the league next yr.
So if you see that the TO cap # is around 36mil and hear that they are capped out, it means they are leaving room for Allison’s bonus in there so they aren’t penalized next yr.

UPDATE

According appears at the end of the New York Post article of October 17, "Brutal Brodeur Yanked in Devil Disaster (http://www.nypost.com/sports/devils/53602.htm),"Patrik Elias suffered a setback in his comeback with an abdominal muscle strain that has prompted him to curb his training schedule. He has yet to practice with the team in his comeback from hepatitis.