Our Record against the Flyers since Stevens stopped playing: 1-8

The "new rules" are a joke. The Flyers did as they pleased - hooking and obstructing to their hearts' content, and only getting whistled for blatently obvious calls. Exactly the same as 2003-2004.

I don't know if it's a mystery who our best player is, but here's a little hint, he wears #30 and and stands in a little blue crease. Yes he's our best player, but for some reason we permit the Flyers to skate into him whenever they want. Unfortunatly #4 is no longer there to allow Marty to do his job.

Here's what should be done. Next time we play Philly, dress an all out goon squad. We'll get killed, but here's the point. Every time one of their skaters so much as breathes on Brodeur, MAIM HIM. Beat them over their heads with sticks, cross check them in the face, butt-end them. Whatever it takes.

Obviously something that extreme could never be done. My point is that until we protect our best player, something every other team does, we will see lots of 5-2 and 4-1 scores not in our favor.

The "new rules" are a joke. The Flyers did as they pleased - hooking and obstructing to their hearts' content, and only getting whistled for blatently obvious calls. Exactly the same as 2003-2004.

Well then, if that were the case, it would stand to reason the Devils could employ the same tactic if they so choose. By your own admission, "whatever it takes" is a viable strategy, so what the Flyers are doing should neither be surprising nor upsetting. And I would have to doubt that the Flyers are the only team who crashes the net when Brodeur is there; if they are, kudos to them, it's been working.

How about running their goalie like they run ours... Didn't see it last night that's for sure.

How about running their goalie like they run ours... Didn't see it last night that's for sure.

Gionta is the only Devils forward that consistantly goes to the net.

gotta love it. Devil fans acting like the Flyers are the first team to ever crash the net. The game has been played this way for as long as I can remember.
You have the size advantage you go to the net.
But i guess some Devils fans would rather have the boring snoozefest clutch and grab hockey back.
If the Devils wanted to do something about the Flyers going to the net and crashing the net they should have done something about it during the game.
As far as the Phantom goal goes? whatever. The Flyers still would have won.

gotta love it. Devil fans acting like the Flyers are the first team to ever crash the net. The game has been played this way for as long as I can remember.
You have the size advantage you go to the net.

And by the same tolken, you protect your goalie.

But i guess some Devils fans would rather have the boring snoozefest clutch and grab hockey back.

Are you kidding? The Flyers looked like the Hansons out there.

If the Devils wanted to do something about the Flyers going to the net and crashing the net they should have done something about it during the game.

Hopefully we'll do something about it next game. And hopefully it will be the end of a couple of careers.

As far as the Phantom goal goes? whatever. The Flyers still would have won.

As long as you recognize that it wasn't a goal, and the outcome of the game would have been much different, that's fine.

Here's what should be done. Next time we play Philly, dress an all out goon squad. We'll get killed, but here's the point. Every time one of their skaters so much as breathes on Brodeur, MAIM HIM. Beat them over their heads with sticks, cross check them in the face, butt-end them. Whatever it takes.


You do that. And when half the team is suspended for attempt to injure and you drop 3, 4, 5 straight, however many games it'll be, because you have to dress half of Albany because of the ramifications of one game, don't complain.

You do that. And when half the team is suspended for attempt to injure and you drop 3, 4, 5 straight, however many games it'll be, because you have to dress half of Albany because of the ramifications of one game, don't complain.

Gee, what was my next line?

Obviously something that extreme could never be done.

Gee, what was my next line?
I saw that line. It doesn't change the fact that you were all for playing like a scene out of Slap Shot. If something that extreme shouldn't be done, then why bring it up? Why advocate beating people over their heads with sticks and then say "obviously something that extreme shouldn't be done?" Why not just suggest something that could be done in the first place?

I saw that line. It doesn't change the fact that you were all for playing like a scene out of Slap Shot. If something that extreme shouldn't be done, then why bring it up? Why advocate beating people over their heads with sticks and then say "obviously something that extreme shouldn't be done?" Why not just suggest something that could be done in the first place?

Because that needs to be the mentality. Geez, is it really that hard to understand? :dunno:

Because that needs to be the mentality. Geez, is it really that hard to understand? :dunno:
So you advocate the Slap Shot mentality of beating sticks over heads and cross checks to the face. How nice.

So you advocate the Slap Shot mentality of beating sticks over heads and cross checks to the face. How nice.

If the other team is running your goalie, yes. Not that you would actually do those things, but that's how strongly you need to feel. And I really don't care if you think it's nice.

Every other game they beat us since stevens retired they basically got in our ***. Last night was a gift from the league. Sorry, i dont count it.

Now erase that!

As much as I hate the Flyers bully mentality, and losing to the Flyers partly from their brutality towards Marty, we have to look at this situation through more realistic lenses. There is an obvious mental block the Devils have when facing the Flyers (oh how the tables have turned). Although this could be partly attributed to the loss of Stevens, that isn't the whole story. The Devils are beating themselves when they step on the ice against Philly. This team has to become more mentally tough, and stop letting every little damn thing affect how they play. We as Devils fans love to trumpet the "stanley cup experience" this team has, yet this team isn't exactly oozing maturity. The Devils gave up when the score was 2-2. Instead of using their misfortune as a motivating factor, they fell apart. If I have noticed anything from my observations of the "new NHL" over the past few weeks is that puck control is vital for success. The team that controls the puck, controls the game and almost always comes out on top.

Anyway lets see if this team can bounce back from last nights catastrophy.

As much as I hate the Flyers bully mentality, and losing to the Flyers partly from their brutality towards Marty, we have to look at this situation through more realistic lenses. There is an obvious mental block the Devils have when facing the Flyers (oh how the tables have turned). Although this could be partly attributed to the loss of Stevens, that isn't the whole story. The Devils are beating themselves when they step on the ice against Philly. This team has to become more mentally tough, and stop letting every little damn thing affect how they play. We as Devils fans love to trumpet the "stanley cup experience" this team has, yet this team isn't exactly oozing maturity. The Devils gave up when the score was 2-2. Instead of using their misfortune as a motivating factor, they fell apart. If I have noticed anything from my observations of the "new NHL" over the past few weeks is that puck control is vital for success. The team that controls the puck, controls the game and almost always comes out on top.

Anyway lets see if this team can bounce back from last nights catastrophy.


There is no block against phili. they had more talent than us two years ago. And now, i think were a better team. We just need some toughness and leadership from somewhere. Make Madden captain already and BRING UP DAVID FREAKIN HALE.

Well then, if that were the case, it would stand to reason the Devils could employ the same tactic if they so choose. By your own admission, "whatever it takes" is a viable strategy, so what the Flyers are doing should neither be surprising nor upsetting. And I would have to doubt that the Flyers are the only team who crashes the net when Brodeur is there; if they are, kudos to them, it's been working.
Its funny how the Devils were always blamed for the "clutch-and-grab" hockey when there was no clamp down on obstruction, and now when there is, and you dont get called for it, you DEFEND IT. Wow.. Just Wow.

There is no block against phili. they had more talent than us two years ago. And now, i think were a better team. We just need some toughness and leadership from somewhere. Make Madden captain already and BRING UP DAVID FREAKIN HALE.

I'm with you on the Hale part, but you have to admit that the Devils are intimidated by the Flyers before they step on to the ice.

Its funny how the Devils were always blamed for the "clutch-and-grab" hockey when there was no clamp down on obstruction, and now when there is, and you dont get called for it, you DEFEND IT. Wow.. Just Wow.


I'm thinking you had 9 PP's last night to our 5.

Called for it? I think we got called for enough.

And when you guys say Brodeur got "ran", what you really mean is there was traffic in front of the net your dmen couldn't handle and Brodeur got bumped a few times. When someone gets truely "run" it's a lot different.

Its funny how the Devils were always blamed for the "clutch-and-grab" hockey when there was no clamp down on obstruction, and now when there is, and you dont get called for it, you DEFEND IT. Wow.. Just Wow.

I didn't blame the Devils for anything, actually. I know at HF Boards, there are two methods, 1) Understand a person's post history and know what comments they have or have not made, or 2) Make something up off of the top of your head. You've chosen the second method. A rational person would not attempt to pin a comment to someone else if they didn't have any evidence, but you have anyway.

I've never blamed the Devils for clutch and grab hockey. Instead, you can go back and delete your post because it is false, useless, and doesn't apply to me, and then I will delete mine. Furthermore, running the goalie has absolutely nothing to do with clutching and grabbing, and it has to do with stretching the limits of the rules in place regarding physical play, so you have absolutely no point whatsoever.

The Flyers have owned Brodeur recently. Reminds me of how he used to play against Roy and Colorado. No doubt they have been in his mind since Stevens was lost.

Gionta is the only Devils forward that consistantly goes to the net.

Actually I've been really impressed with Parise so far going to the Net....And I would make a case for Langbrunner, but for the most part you are correct.

I don't think it's because "we ran" your goalie. You don't have anyone on your defense that can move our forwards. We have big guys in Primeau, Stevenson and even Knuble can be physical. Stevens could get them out there, McGillis can't, Vlad can't and Raffy can't. That's the reason you think we are running Marty. Toronto thinks the same thing every time we beat them. You don't have the defensemen to move the forwards from the net.

I don't think it's because "we ran" your goalie. You don't have anyone on your defense that can move our forwards. We have big guys in Primeau, Stevenson and even Knuble can be physical. Stevens could get them out there, McGillis can't, Vlad can't and Raffy can't. That's the reason you think we are running Marty. Toronto thinks the same thing every time we beat them. You don't have the defensemen to move the forwards from the net.


Under the new rules no one can move any forward........Gionta has been standing in the crease the last 3 games like a giant.

But I don't really recall the Flyers scoring goals because the devils couldn't clear the front.....except for maybe the Phantom goal. All the rest were off the rush, shooting type goals as opposed to bang in type goals.

Stevenson, Simm Gange and Handzuz all scored off the rush

I don't think it's because "we ran" your goalie. You don't have anyone on your defense that can move our forwards. We have big guys in Primeau, Stevenson and even Knuble can be physical. Stevens could get them out there, McGillis can't, Vlad can't and Raffy can't. That's the reason you think we are running Marty. Toronto thinks the same thing every time we beat them. You don't have the defensemen to move the forwards from the net.

Matvichuk and White should be able to, so should Vlad.

I think your forwards are running Marty because they are frequently lying on top of him after the play. And it's not just Primeau and Stevenson. It's Gagne and Sim and some of the smaller guys.

Matvichuk and White should be able to, so should Vlad.

I think your forwards are running Marty because they are frequently lying on top of him after the play. And it's not just Primeau and Stevenson. It's Gagne and Sim and some of the smaller guys.

But really, what is your complaint? Does it lay with the refs for not calling a penalty for a player they deem to be legal, or does it lay with your favorite team's players for failing to protect their goalie?

But really, what is your complaint? Does it lay with the refs for not calling a penalty for a player they deem to be legal, or does it lay with your favorite team's players for failing to protect their goalie?

I'm simply recognizing that the new rules don't apply to goaltenders and therefore we need to take appropriate steps to protect our best player.

Matvichuk and White should be able to, so should Vlad.

I think your forwards are running Marty because they are frequently lying on top of him after the play. And it's not just Primeau and Stevenson. It's Gagne and Sim and some of the smaller guys.

Creating traffic in front of the net, screening the goalie, fighting for rebounds, etc. etc. is how the game is played. Who for the Devils used to kill the Flyers the most ??? Randy McKay and Bobby Holik. How the hell do you think they were scoring their goals ???

The Flyers are a better team, guys. Crashing the net, bumping around and making it hard on a goaltender are all parts of a winning team's strategy. What's so difficult to understand?

The fact that the Devils are a bunch of sissies at forward hasn't crossed anybody's mind? There needs to be somebody like Holik or Stevens who can patrol a game. We don't have one.

Creating traffic in front of the net, screening the goalie, fighting for rebounds, etc. etc.

Are all different than running the goalie.

Who for the Devils used to kill the Flyers the most ??? Randy McKay and Bobby Holik. How the hell do you think they were scoring their goals ???

McKay and Holik? Why don't we talk about Muller and Shanahan while we're at it? We've had some success against you since Holik and McKay left.

Are all different than running the goalie.



McKay and Holik? Why don't we talk about Muller and Shanahan while we're at it? We've had some success against you since Holik and McKay left.

Flyers didn't "run" Brodeur once on Friday night. The one time poor Marty's helmet got knocked off was when Knuble had the puck and was cutting to the net and was hit by a Devils defenseman.

Also since Holik & Mckay left the Devils dominance of the Flyers has disappeared .... it's gone from Devils dominance of the Flyers... to equals .. to Flyers dominance of the Devils.

Flyers didn't "run" Brodeur once on Friday night. The one time poor Marty's helmet got knocked off was when Knuble had the puck and was cutting to the net and was hit by a Devils defenseman.

Are you sure you're not the one who called that replay goal?


Also since Holik & Mckay left the Devils dominance of the Flyers has disappeared .... it's gone from Devils dominance of the Flyers... to equals .. to Flyers dominance of the Devils.

Really? Who won the division in 2003? The Flyers and Devils were neck and neck until Stevens left, that's when the Flyers took over, that's the whole damn point of this thread.

Also since Holik & Mckay left the Devils dominance of the Flyers has disappeared .... it's gone from Devils dominance of the Flyers... to equals .. to Flyers dominance of the Devils.Really? Who won the division in 2003? The Flyers and Devils were neck and neck until Stevens left, that's when the Flyers took over, that's the whole damn point of this thread.The Devils didn't have Holik or McKay in 2002-03, yet the Devils went 3-1-1 against the team once known as the Broad Street Bullies. The Devils were also, of course, the Atlantic Division Champions, Eastern Conference Champions and the Stanley Cup Champions for the 2002-03 season.

The Devils didn't have Holik or McKay in 2002-03, yet the Devils went 3-1-1 against the team once known as the Broad Street Bullies.

Sice the Devils became the "Devils" playoffs of 1995. The record against the Flyers is 31-25-6.

Since McKay was traded the record is: 6-10-2.
Since Holik has been gone 5-10-2.

Sice the Devils became the "Devils" playoffs of 1995. The record against the Flyers is 31-25-6.

Since McKay was traded the record is: 6-10-2.
Since Holik has been gone 5-10-2.

yeah but that's why stats are decieving...when you put it that way you almost look right. but the reality is when mckay left and Stevens was still here we were 5-2-2. When holik left and Stevens was still here, we were 4-2-2. Holik and McKay have played a minor role in the change but the key was stevens.

yeah but that's why stats are decieving...when you put it that way you almost look right. but the reality is when mckay left and Stevens was still here we were 5-2-2. When holik left and Stevens was still here, we were 4-2-2. Holik and McKay have played a minor role in the change but the key was stevens.

None of them are an abolute key ... in reality it's we've been getting better, and you've been getting worse. In the 9 games since Stevens has been gone, the offense has been the problem, not the defense. Just 14 goals scored in 9 games.

In those 9 games the Flyers scored more than 3 goals just twice.

None of them are an abolute key ... in reality it's we've been getting better, and you've been getting worse. In the 9 games since Stevens has been gone, the offense has been the problem, not the defense. Just 14 goals scored in 9 games.

In those 9 games the Flyers scored more than 3 goals just twice.

your right in the sense that the Flyers have been getting better while the Devils have gotten worse. But the key is Stevens not just for his play and leadership but because the Devils have styled themselves around his style of play and leadership. They went into those last playoffs with only one grinding defenseman, white and yet they still tried to play the style that they have been using for years with Stevens and Dano there too. It was doomed to fail from the start, they were not going to outmuscle a bigger group of Flyer forwards in their own zone. they needed to take a different tactic, to look at their core at the time and see it was now Nieds, Rafalski and Martin and style themselves around an attacking instead of physical defense, and they didn't. And now they are just trying to figure out what they are doing and how they are going to do it. Find an even balance somewhere.

With Scott Stevens in the lineup but Holik and McKay both no longer Devils, the New Jersey Devils were 5-1-2 against the Philadelphia Flyers.

Scott Stevens helped set the tempo of games. He put fear into the opposing forwards when they took the puck into New Jersey's zone, thus inhibiting their play.

The Flyers finally solidifying their goaltending with some quality netminders has actually been a big reason for the recent swing in Philly's favor. Esche and Niity both are huge upgrades over what was in place before them with the revolving door lets see how far a backup goalie can go pushed into being a starter approach. Its not entirely all about losing Scott Stevens here, but that certainly has played its proper part as well.

Gionta is the only Devils forward that consistantly goes to the net.


...and he is the smallest guy on the team

With Scott Stevens in the lineup but Holik and McKay both no longer Devils, the New Jersey Devils were 5-1-2 against the Philadelphia Flyers.

Scott Stevens helped set the tempo of games. He put fear into the opposing forwards when they took the puck into New Jersey's zone, thus inhibiting their play.

2 of the 5 victories came in games that the Flyers dominated, and had Jeff Hackett playing while having Vertigo, and Esche was injured .. I believe you all remember the Neidermayer goal from 150 feet. :shakehead . Hackett had to retire immediately.

The loss of Stevens isn't the reason why the Devils are getting no scoring against the Flyers from sources other than the top line and the PP. The lack of secondary scoring depth, has been the biggest factor.

The Flyers finally solidifying their goaltending with some quality netminders has actually been a big reason for the recent swing in Philly's favor. Esche and Niity both are huge upgrades over what was in place before them with the revolving door lets see how far a backup goalie can go pushed into being a starter approach. Its not entirely all about losing Scott Stevens here, but that certainly has played its proper part as well.

The difference IMO of late is that the teams had somewhat switched identites.

The Devils used to be all about team and getting contributions from all 4 lines, and almost no weaknesses. The Flyers were built on Lindros, LeClair, Renberg, Desjardins, and very little else. If the Devils could somewhat contain the Flyers big 4/5 they would win the games. The Flyers needed not just good, but great games from those 4-5 to win.

The Devils of 03-04 needed great games from the Egg line, Brodeur and Niedermayer to win. They weren't getting the help from other sources .. while the Flyers no longer had the elite talent that they once had, but no had far better depth.

2 of the 5 victories came in games that the Flyers dominated, and had Jeff Hackett playing while having Vertigo, and Esche was injured .. I believe you all remember the Neidermayer goal from 150 feet. :shakehead . Hackett had to retire immediately.

The loss of Stevens isn't the reason why the Devils are getting no scoring against the Flyers from sources other than the top line and the PP. The lack of secondary scoring depth, has been the biggest factor.Taking away those two victories against Hackett (plus that 150-foot-goal game was a tie) and that takes us back to the 3-1-1 record in 2002-03 without Holik and McKay.

Are you denying the impact Scott Stevens had in a hockey game? There's more to hockey than just creating scoring chances. Limiting the opposition's scoring chances helps to dictate play.

Taking away those two victories against Hackett (plus that 150-foot-goal game was a tie) and that takes us back to the 3-1-1 record in 2002-03 without Holik and McKay.

Are you denying the impact Scott Stevens had in a hockey game? There's more to hockey than just creating scoring chances. Limiting the opposition's scoring chances helps to dictate play.

Stevens certainly had an impact, but the biggest reason the Devils haven't been beating the Flyers of late is lack of secondary scoring, not poor team defense.

Before if the "A" line or whoever your #1 line at the time, wasn't scoring you had Gomez, Mogilny, Holik, McKay, Lemieux, Madden, Brylin etc. chipping in goals.

Of late if your top line or PP aren't scoring the Devils aren't getting it from anywhere else.

The difference IMO of late is that the teams had somewhat switched identites.

The Devils used to be all about team and getting contributions from all 4 lines, and almost no weaknesses. The Flyers were built on Lindros, LeClair, Renberg, Desjardins, and very little else. If the Devils could somewhat contain the Flyers big 4/5 they would win the games. The Flyers needed not just good, but great games from those 4-5 to win.

The Devils of 03-04 needed great games from the Egg line, Brodeur and Niedermayer to win. They weren't getting the help from other sources .. while the Flyers no longer had the elite talent that they once had, but no had far better depth.

While most of your posts are a little off, this one is just plain false. Yes, due to injuries and some players (Friesen) getting into serious funks, the 2004 team disintegrated into a one line team. But other than that, our offensive strength has always been a stable of solid if not spectacular forwards. Brylin, Kozlov, Gionta, Langenbrunner, Madden, Parise, Pandolfo, and Marshall represent a very solid supporting cast behind the ostensible top line of Elias Gomez and Mogilny.

As for the Flyers teams you pretend only had a few stars, you conveniently left out JR, Mark Recchi, Simon Gagne, Keith Primeau etc. etc. etc...

The truth is that the Devils and Flyers have always been very similar, with the Devils having stronger goaltending and the leadership of a defenseman like Stevens.

While most of your posts are a little off, this one is just plain false. Yes, due to injuries and some players (Friesen) getting into serious funks, the 2004 team disintegrated into a one line team. But other than that, our offensive strength has always been a stable of solid if not spectacular forwards. Brylin, Kozlov, Gionta, Langenbrunner, Madden, Parise, Pandolfo, and Marshall represent a very solid supporting cast behind the ostensible top line of Elias Gomez and Mogilny.

As for the Flyers teams you pretend only had a few stars, you conveniently left out JR, Mark Recchi, Simon Gagne, Keith Primeau etc. etc. etc...

The truth is that the Devils and Flyers have always been very similar, with the Devils having stronger goaltending and the leadership of a defenseman like Stevens.


When JR, Recchi etc. came .... the "Legion of Doom" and Brind'amour group was gone. They weren't both around at the same time.

Primeau replaced Brind'amour. JR replaced Lindros. While Lindros was a Flyer, the Flyers had next to no depth.

Stevens certainly had an impact, but the biggest reason the Devils haven't been beating the Flyers of late is lack of secondary scoring, not poor team defense.

Before if the "A" line or whoever your #1 line at the time, wasn't scoring you had Gomez, Mogilny, Holik, McKay, Lemieux, Madden, Brylin etc. chipping in goals.

Of late if your top line or PP aren't scoring the Devils aren't getting it from anywhere else.Teams with Scott Stevens in the lineup for them have won 878 of the 1,635. The 878 team wins is an NHL record.

Becareful about saying of late. Do you mean 2003-04 or 2005-06? The season is very young, but the Devils look to have two capable scoring lines in Brylin-Gomez-Mogilny and Kozlov-Parise-Gionta. Those lines will only get better when Elias returns even with the subtractions that are made.

The Devils didn't have primary scoring in 2002-03. Elias led the team with 28 goals and 57 points. Nevertheless, the Devils went 3-1-1 against the Flyers.