$40,076,929.00

$40,076,929.00

That's NHLPA.com's listing of our total team salary with every free agent signed except Elias and Stevens.

So we're a little bit over even without Patty... but we knew that already.

So, best guess as to how we're going to get back under (any trade possibilities)?

Its starting to look dumb to have Oliwa, Langdon, and Marshall now. Especially Oliwa.

haha funny you mentioned that i was just about to post that NHLPA has listed the followed free agents as signed for the following salaries:

Friesen for 2,280,000
Martin 502,000
White 1,710,000

haha funny you mentioned that i was just about to post that NHLPA has listed the followed free agents as signed for the following salaries:

Friesen for 2,280,000
Martin 502,000
White 1,710,000

The post reported that over a week ago. I was suprised no one took note.

$40,076,929.00

That's NHLPA.com's listing of our total team salary with every free agent signed except Elias and Stevens.

So we're a little bit over even without Patty... but we knew that already.

So, best guess as to how we're going to get back under (any trade possibilities)?

Again, Madden's cap-hit this year is substantially below his actual salary this year. So the Devils' payroll-against-cap is at least 700k lower than calculated above, and if some reports are to be believed, more like 1.4 mil below.

Also, as I understand it (and man, do I ever want to read the CBA for myself so I can stop making assumptions based on second-hand information), the team could bury a player (like Oliwa) in the AHL to save money. Sure, he'd have to clear waivers to go down and clear waivers again coming back up (IMHO, any team that wants to make the waiver claim is welcome to!) ... but, as far as I know, it would save on cap hit.

Again, Madden's cap-hit this year is substantially below his actual salary this year. So the Devils' payroll-against-cap is at least 700k lower than calculated above, and if some reports are to be believed, more like 1.4 mil below.

Also, as I understand it (and man, do I ever want to read the CBA for myself so I can stop making assumptions based on second-hand information), the team could bury a player (like Oliwa) in the AHL to save money. Sure, he'd have to clear waivers to go down and clear waivers again coming back up (IMHO, any team that wants to make the waiver claim is welcome to!) ... but, as far as I know, it would save on cap hit.

Does anyone know what Madden's actual value against the cap is? Because it makes a huge difference in the calculations I'm doing.

Does anyone know what Madden's actual value against the cap is? Because it makes a huge difference in the calculations I'm doing.

5 year deal, 20 million overall would make it 3.04.

But, if the first year of the deal does not count in the averaging (since it took place before the CBA), it would turn out to be a 4 year deal worth 20-4.6 = 2.926 million against the cap.

I'm pretty sure the 1st one is the real cap number, but I've seen the 2nd one used around here in the past.

5 year deal, 20 million overall would make it 3.04.

But, if the first year of the deal does not count in the averaging (since it took place before the CBA), it would turn out to be a 4 year deal worth 20-4.6 = 2.926 million against the cap.

I'm pretty sure the 1st one is the real cap number, but I've seen the 2nd one used around here in the past.

Thanks DK.

Actually, on that note, what would Brodeur's actual value under the cap be?

Thanks DK.

Actually, on that note, what would Brodeur's actual value under the cap be?

What was his contract value? When he signed his deal I didn't follow contract values as religiously as I do now, heck I didn't really grasp the RFA/UFA ect. until very recently.

So, best guess as to how we're going to get back under (any trade possibilities)?I don't see how a defenseman is not going to be traded. If the Devils have eight -- Rafalski, Malakhov, McGillis, White, Matvichuk, Martin, Brown and Hale -- it seems likely one will be traded unless Hale is sent to Albany, though I don't think that that should happen. I don't see Lou Lamoriello trading away one of the three that he just signed.

Viktor Kozlov seems a likely forward to go because we would see Mogilny, Gionta and Langenbrunner at right wing of the top three lines. Kozlov also plays center, but Gomez, Parise and Madden will fill the top three lines.

If Mogilny can play left wing on the top line, Marshall could be on Madden's line with Gionta and Langenbrunner bumped up until Elias returns. Did Mogilny play any left wing in Vancouver with Pavel Bure on right wing? Both snipers have a left shot.

Its starting to look dumb to have Oliwa, Langdon, and Marshall now. Especially Oliwa.I wouldn't lump Marshall in with the enforces/goons. He can contribute offensively as well as be a good RW for the Madden line. The other two are 5 minutes a game fighters.

Another good thing about Marshall is that he once KO'ed Tie Domi.

What was his contract value? When he signed his deal I didn't follow contract values as religiously as I do now, heck I didn't really grasp the RFA/UFA ect. until very recently.

I can't remember. 6M a year maybe, I really don't know.
Maybe Brodeur's cap hit is higher than his 05/06 compensation... I wouldn't be surprised.

I can't remember. 6M a year maybe, I really don't know.
Maybe Brodeur's cap hit is higher than his 05/06 compensation... I wouldn't be surprised.

Well I did a bit of research and it seems to be a deal 5 years 40 million dollars. However, there was a lot of deffered money involved which, before the new CBA and the subsequent rollback, made his annual salary come out to 6.9 per year. I'm not sure if that figure changes over time, but lets just say the deffered money doesn't count towards the cap ever. In that case his cap hit would be 5.244 million. If the deffered money counts, and the original contract stands for the hit, his cap number would be 6.08 million. I'm having a very hard time grasping this new CBA, for it seems like there are many exceptions to given rules, and the fact that it strongly takes into account the pre-CBA world (I don't think the deffered money counts towards the cap ever...).

If deferred money never counted against the cap, then... well... It has to count somehow.

Ah screw it. Lou will figure it out.

What was his contract value? When he signed his deal I didn't follow contract values as religiously as I do now, heck I didn't really grasp the RFA/UFA ect. until very recently.
2003-04 New Jersey Devils (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2003-04&team=18) $ 6,891,103

According to USA Today.

That's pretty different from NHLPA.com's compensation report that puts Brodeur at $5,237,238. Is it taking rollback into account?

Oh.

Nevermind.

2003-04 New Jersey Devils (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2003-04&team=18) $ 6,891,103

According to USA Today.

Yes, but add about 1.1 million to that if you're counting deffered, unless Brodeur's contract spikes up in the last few years of the deal.

I'm thuroughly confused. :confused:

Yes, but add about 1.1 million to that if you're counting deffered, unless Brodeur's contract spikes up in the last few years of the deal.

I'm thuroughly confused. :confused:

The number Unthinkable posted was Brodeur's salary last season, prior to the rollback.
Gah, I guess the contract was frontloaded?

The number Unthinkable posted was Brodeur's salary last season, prior to the rollback.
Gah, I guess the contract was frontloaded?

I remember his salary being that same figure in 02-03, 03-04, and 04-05. It must be the 5 year 40 million contract but not taking into account the deffered money.

For you're calculations I would just play it safe and put the 5.244 number in there.

Also, as I understand it (and man, do I ever want to read the CBA for myself so I can stop making assumptions based on second-hand information), the team could bury a player (like Oliwa) in the AHL to save money. Sure, he'd have to clear waivers to go down and clear waivers again coming back up (IMHO, any team that wants to make the waiver claim is welcome to!) ... but, as far as I know, it would save on cap hit.I'm also going on second-hand information, but I think that any player making more than a certain amount of money (I don't know the exact figure, but it isn't much, like $75-100K) playing in the minors counts against the NHL cap. This is done preceisely so that teams can't bury bad contracts in the AHL -- makes sense.

I'm also going on second-hand information, but I think that any player making more than a certain amount of money (I don't know the exact figure, but it isn't much, like $75-100K) playing in the minors counts against the NHL cap. This is done preceisely so that teams can't bury bad contracts in the AHL -- makes sense.

The way I've heard it is that any player making over $75k in the minors has to clear waivers coming back up. But it's all hearsay UNTIL THE NHLPA JUST PUTS THE DAMN PDF ON THEIR WEBSITE.

Grrr. I'm getting really frustrated with the whole "I heard this is how it works", "No, I've heard this is how it works". The document's finalized and signed-off. It's not changing. They've claimed that they plan to put it on the website. So why haven't they done so yet? They've had plenty of time.



I'd also -love- to know which of our contracts are two-way deals (where the AHL portion is in-line with AHL salaries). Obviously Parise and Suglobov, I'd bet Hale and Martin, but what about Oliwa, Rasmusssen, Langdon, Marshall? Even Gionta?

I don't see how a defenseman is not going to be traded. If the Devils have eight -- Rafalski, Malakhov, McGillis, White, Matvichuk, Martin, Brown and Hale -- it seems likely one will be traded unless Hale is sent to Albany, though I don't think that that should happen. I don't see Lou Lamoriello trading away one of the three that he just signed.


I think it's quite likely that Hale at least starts the season in Albany. He only got 30 games in last year between his injuries and illness, so they might want to see him play big minutes at full strength for an extended period before recalling him.


Viktor Kozlov seems a likely forward to go because we would see Mogilny, Gionta and Langenbrunner at right wing of the top three lines. Kozlov also plays center, but Gomez, Parise and Madden will fill the top three lines.


If between dumping Oliwa and saving on two-way deals they still can't fit under, then I agree that Kozlov should be the odd man out.

the pens will gladly offer a 7th round draft pick for one of your great defencemen ;)

the pens will gladly offer a 7th round draft pick for one of your great defencemen ;)
Outstanding! Sean Brown is on the way!

No Brown without Oliwa ;)

I'm interested to see how LL will get out of his cap problem. Lets see w/Elias your at about $44M. If Kozlov is the the man out (down to $42.3M) and Parise plays in the NHL and Elias is healthy does Lou still need to reduce by another mid level player (read as $2-3M range) to get under cap? He must have a deal a brew'in!

I'm an interested Sharks (we're way under cap) fan :) that thinks we could use a top 6 forward.

I'm an interested Sharks (we're way under cap) fan :) that thinks we could use a top 6 forward.

Hold on here, wait, lemmie guess, hmmmm.

Is it Jeff Friesen you want? ;)

Hold on here, wait, lemmie guess, hmmmm.

Is it Jeff Friesen you want? ;)

Sure, or.. wait for it... Scott Gomez (does LL have "untouchable" players ??)

I'm interested to see how LL will get out of his cap problem. Lets see w/Elias your at about $44M. If Kozlov is the the man out (down to $42.3M) and Parise plays in the NHL and Elias is healthy does Lou still need to reduce by another mid level player (read as $2-3M range) to get under cap? He must have a deal a brew'in!

I'm an interested Sharks (we're way under cap) fan :) that thinks we could use a top 6 forward.Elias is not likely to be healthy at the start of the season. Alexander Mogilny's signing was done because of this.

The New York Post article on the Mogilny signing featured this passage,

The general manager said the signing of Mogilny is related to Elias' hepatitis situation, but does not mean Elias won't be back in action soon.

"He will not be rushed," Lamoriello insisted. When "soon" is, I don't know. But Eias' $4.18 million will not be counted entirely against the cap.

Elias is not likely to be healthy at the start of the season. Alexander Mogilny's signing was done because of this.

The New York Post article on the Mogilny signing featured this passage,

When "soon" is, I don't know. But Eias' $4.18 million will not be counted entirely against the cap.

Given that Elias does not count against the cap your still about $2M (estimate) over to start the season.

But Eias' $4.18 million will not be counted entirely against the cap.

Yes, it will.

Yes, it will.

No it doesn't. Not until he's healthy enough to play. Once he's good to go, the Devils will immediately have to get back to cap level.

No it doesn't. Not until he's healthy enough to play. Once he's good to go, the Devils will immediately have to get back to cap level.

Didn't you know that Liquidrage helped write the CBA?

No it doesn't. Not until he's healthy enough to play. Once he's good to go, the Devils will immediately have to get back to cap level.
That's not how I have interpreted it (granted, I could be wrong). Elias is an active player who will be replaced due to injury until he is healthy. Because of this, the player replacing Elias will not count against the cap because he makes less then Patrick, but Elias' contract will indeed count against the cap.

Think of it in non cap terms. Just because Elias is not playing, does not mean that he isn't getting paid. That 4.18 mil is in guaranteed money and Elias will receive every cent of it. Because of this, it will indeed count against the cap.

That's not how I have interpreted it (granted, I could be wrong). Elias is an active player who will be replaced due to injury until he is healthy. Because of this, the player replacing Elias will not count against the cap because he makes less then Patrick, but Elias' contract will indeed count against the cap.

Think of it in non cap terms. Just because Elias is not playing, does not mean that he isn't getting paid. That 4.18 mil is in guaranteed money and Elias will receive every cent of it. Because of this, it will indeed count against the cap.

Yep, you're right. My bad. I read the CBA on NHL.com again, it makes sense now.

Isnt it about the same?

You seems to expect that the player replacing Elias as too comes from somewhere else?? I dont think this is out it works.

My understanding is the following.
(Let's assume Elias will missed half the year.)

Elias at 4M counts against the cap for the entire year.
-The replacement player wont count against the cap (assuming more than 10 games of Elias are missed) for the duration of Elias missing.

-NJ elect Madden as the replacement player.

When Elias start playing, a young guy (or though a trade another salary goes) goes back to the minors and stop counting against the cap (under 75K pay in the ahl). (Let's assume the guy that is cut makes 500k) Elias Salary counts totally against the cap But Madden count only from that point which mean half the salary.

Which mean:
Elias = 4M
Madden = 3M/2 = 1.5M
Cut Player = 500k/2 = 250k
5.75M in salaries for the year on those 3 players.

Instead of 4M + 3M = 7M (Assuming the salary that doesnt count is the new guy that has been bring in the waiting of Elias coming back at 500k.

A substantial difference. It's doesnt bring down the Devils under the cap but it does take a good million less in salary cap.

I might be wrong, but up to know, there's not a single source that could lead me to think the team arent able to choose which player is the replacement.

No, it's not the same because saying "he doesn't count against the cap" would assume he's salary is being taken off the cap based on the amonut of games he doesn't play in.

Look at this way.

The way IR works according to the best info we have on the CBA means the Devils need be under the cap including Elias. They can then place him on IR and name a replacement player.

If his salary just wasn't counted against the cap, then you wouldn't have to worry about Elias' money until have he came back, or you'd assume his cap hit was being lessensed by the amount of games he missed, or both.

In your example you do something slightly different, you're shifting Madden's salary and hiding it under Elias' IR status. If it works that way I'd be shocked. That would be too abuseable and I can't believe the league would be that stupid to allow such a big loophole.

The actual quote from the NHL's FAQ is:
Clubs at or near the upper limit that have players who incur a bona fide long-term injury will be entitled to replace up to the full value of the injured player's NHL salary (even if such salary would result in the club's team salary exceeding the upper limit).

So basically, they're allowing you to go over the cap up to the player(s) on IR's salary. Which would mean you couldn't actually do Madden as 3M/2 = 1.5M. Instead it was just 3M, and you were allowed to go over. But as soon as the player(s) comes off of IR, you have to get right back under. Which would indicate that the player identified as the replacement player would be looked at as if it didn't count. But if you tried to do that with Madden's 3M in this example, and you kept him, then you wouldn't actually be back under the cap.

Though your way of looking at it was creative, the language in the FAQ doesn't seem to indicate it would work. And as much as I think the league is run by idiots at times, I can't believe they're that stupid as to allow such an obvious loophole.

Ok i get your point.
I'll keep this on with another question though.

Isnt the actual cap concerned about the money a club is paying to their players at the end of the year?

When at this point in time we take a look and say: NJ is at 44M, we are banking on all pay checks to count by the end of the year. While in a case of injury, the injured paycheck count (but not his replacement), when all is said and done, the amount of money that will have cost toward the cap wont be the 4M + 3M even if both players remained on the club but the 4M + the part of the salary that is count out the injury period.

No?
_________________________________

If only the actual number (simply add all years salaries without taking account what i said), then it's ok. But it looks rather stupid imo.

Edit: I read again your last part and you kind of answer my questionning already.

It's just that i find kind of stupid this whole thing, I would have think they would want to help teams with injury players as much as they could. Obviously i'm delusional as the main point is the 39M figure and nothing else. I should have know.

$40,076,929.00

That's NHLPA.com's listing of our total team salary with every free agent signed except Elias and Stevens.

So we're a little bit over even without Patty... but we knew that already.

So, best guess as to how we're going to get back under (any trade possibilities)?
but, I think some of you have it wrong about Elias. He counts until he misses 10 games. You don't pick which 10 games. The 10 games count from the start. So with being over and there is talk about whether or not you guys are over the magical offseason 10%, it is a problem, a potentially huge problem. I understand your faith in Lou, it is justified. But just by saying that he will take care of it, like the alternative is that he's not going to, or that any other GM in a similar situation is going to ignore the issue, that doesn't mean that you are not going to have consequences. The question is will they be severe and upset the dynamics and structure of the team. The harder up you are with cap issues the lest likely your neighborhood friendly NHL GMs are going to be in not trying to rob the store. The other issue I see that is valid for you is the term of the contracts that many of the older players have been given.

but, I think some of you have it wrong about Elias. He counts until he misses 10 games. You don't pick which 10 games. The 10 games count from the start. So with being over and there is talk about whether or not you guys are over the magical offseason 10%, it is a problem, a potentially huge problem. I understand your faith in Lou, it is justified. But just by saying that he will take care of it, like the alternative is that he's not going to, or that any other GM in a similar situation is going to ignore the issue, that doesn't mean that you are not going to have consequences. The question is will they be severe and upset the dynamics and structure of the team. The harder up you are with cap issues the lest likely your neighborhood friendly NHL GMs are going to be in not trying to rob the store. The other issue I see that is valid for you is the term of the contracts that many of the older players have been given.


Actually I think that Elias will be considered on the long-term IR from day 1. That is the only way to explain why NJ is allowed to be over as much as they are. The way I see it the Devils are about $41 million right now. They should have to dump about $3 million in salary to be safely under the cap. Then when Elias returns they will probably have to dump an additional $2 million in salary.

Actually I think that Elias will be considered on the long-term IR from day 1. That is the only way to explain why NJ is allowed to be over as much as they are. The way I see it the Devils are about $41 million right now. They should have to dump about $3 million in salary to be safely under the cap. Then when Elias returns they will probably have to dump an additional $2 million in salary.
than wishful thinking. I don't see how there will be exceptions. If you know someone is hurt already you have to plan accordingly. Nothing that I have read or heard even suggests that there is a possibility of what you say will be the scenario.
I could be wrong and you could be absolutely right, but again, having someone pre-eligible to not count is something I haven't heard.

Now that you have the two posts above this (ignoring the other posts where they've quoted the CBA in other threads with the same thing), will you stop being an *** about this yet? Or are you going to continue to talk smack about something you're wrong about?

NJ will make some trades and be OK I have no doubt. But the bottom line is IR doesn't take a players salary off the books. It gives teams some room to replace him until he comes back.

You come on this board and claim to be the expert. And you're right, I don't know much about the CBA and never said I did, unlike you and several others. Have you read the document? Are you a CPA? Do you have a law degree? Have you ever been the GM of A professional sports franshise? :shakehead

You come on this board and claim to be the expert. And you're right, I don't know much about the CBA and never said I did, unlike you and several others. Have you read the document? Are you a CPA? Do you have a law degree? Have you ever been the GM of A professional sports franshise? :shakehead

No, what I've done and what some others have done is use the info that was released and apply it to the best of our ability.

And then you come along and dismiss it with trite little sarcastic statements as if you knew anything more.

I don't claim to be nor act like an expert on the CBA. In fact, I have in the past clearly used expersions like "as far as I can tell" and "unless anyone knows anything better" and "seems to indicate".

The CBA FAQ released by the league seems to clearly indicate that a player on IR has their full value count against the cap and it it is the replacement player who doesn't have their value count. It says this very plainly.

You can continue to blame me and make more stuff up to justify some of the stuff you've written. Have fun with that, I don't really care. But I will continue to discuss the IR salary as I have in the past until such time as someone can show something that would contradict what is listed in the FAQ.

Let it die....if Lou is screwed then just wait it out and watch him get screwed. I don't feel we will be hurt all that much by dumping a few players to get under the cap. We will have young rookies like Suglobov and Parise to step up and Hale to eat bigger minutes. Just leave us be....we have beat this dead with the bat for 3 weeks now.

No, what I've done and what some others have done is use the info that was released and apply it to the best of our ability.

And then you come along and dismiss it with trite little sarcastic statements as if you knew anything more.

I don't claim to be nor act like an expert on the CBA. In fact, I have in the past clearly used expersions like "as far as I can tell" and "unless anyone knows anything better" and "seems to indicate".

The CBA FAQ released by the league seems to clearly indicate that a player on IR has their full value count against the cap and it it is the replacement player who doesn't have their value count. It says this very plainly.

You can continue to blame me and make more stuff up to justify some of the stuff you've written. Have fun with that, I don't really care. But I will continue to discuss the IR salary as I have in the past until such time as someone can show something that would contradict what is listed in the FAQ.


2 questions:

1. Is there a provision in the new CBA for preseason injuries?

2. Have you read it?




P.S.
I rarely ask questions I don't know the answer to ;)

2 questions:

1. Is there a provision in the new CBA for preseason injuries?

2. Have you read it?




P.S.
I rarely ask questions I don't know the answer to ;)

Don't know. Which would obviously lead to nope.

All I have is what I can find online. If you know something better then quote it and show it as we'd all be interested in seeing it.

B's fan here...Just wondering what your opinion of what White's trade value is. The B's could use him, and NJ is probably looking for cheap players/prospects. Andy Hilbert of the B's has asked to be traded, since he sees no room for him on Boston's loaded forward roster. Also, we could use another solid defensive defenseman. Hilbert IMO is a top prospect who is NHL ready and hasn't been given a real shot in Boston. Now the B's are high on Brad Boyes, so it looks even worse for Hilbert. Could be had for 600K or less, maybe on a two-way deal, and I see White as the best trade for him. Any ideas on what this deal would look like? Any draft picks going either way, etc? Thanks.

B's fan here...Just wondering what your opinion of what White's trade value is. The B's could use him, and NJ is probably looking for cheap players/prospects. Andy Hilbert of the B's has asked to be traded, since he sees no room for him on Boston's loaded forward roster. Also, we could use another solid defensive defenseman. Hilbert IMO is a top prospect who is NHL ready and hasn't been given a real shot in Boston. Now the B's are high on Brad Boyes, so it looks even worse for Hilbert. Could be had for 600K or less, maybe on a two-way deal, and I see White as the best trade for him. Any ideas on what this deal would look like? Any draft picks going either way, etc? Thanks. Andy Hilbert came up in another Devils cap thread here last night. A season ago, he and Huml both were ripped publically in the Boston newspapers by Mike O'Connell when it was reported the two of them were upset over the prospects of having to play in Providence (believe the quote used from Bruins GM was something to the effect of "they can both cry and whine all they want down there at this point - we simply don't care"). The knock on Hilbert that I've always heard from fans is his questionable attitude which Lou Lamoriello certainly wouldn't be a fan of. I like him as an AHL player, but if he's going to demand ice time and roles like Mike Danton did believing everything should be handed to him before proving himself in the NHL, he wouldn't make an ideal New Jersey Devils addition.

Don't know. Which would obviously lead to nope.

All I have is what I can find online. If you know something better then quote it and show it as we'd all be interested in seeing it.

Liquidrage, I know you've seen this, but I'm posting the link for the benefit of others here who may not have seen this yet.


Saw a thread posted by Egil on the NHL Talk board...

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=166965

linking to a <gasp> blog that seems to have a quoted exerpt from the new CBA...

http://www.canuckscorner.com/weblog/nhllog/ (article titled "It Hurts, It Hurts")

The result of the text seems to be that Elias can be declared unfit-to-play in advance (which he may aready have been), and then can be replaced by one or more players up to his salary, with the team allowed to breach cap to pay his replacement(s) ... but Elias can't rejoin the team for at least 10 games and 24 days, and can't rejoin unless/until the team is back under cap.

So it looks like the real crunch/crisis could be pushed out into the season. It looks like Mogilny+ can exist under Elias' cap hit until Elias returns.

http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articles/2005/08/28/ready_to_rise_again_in_phoenix/?page=full


''I'm not going to comment on anything," said Hilbert, who has been skating and working out in Michigan, where his family lives. ''I don't know what's going on. I'd feel more comfortable not saying anything."

Bruins general manager Mike O'Connell said Hilbert, who is a restricted free agent, feels there isn't a spot for him here.

''He wants a better opportunity," said O'Connell. ''I think he looks at our team and sees he's not going to be able to make our team. I don't know what it is. I think he just wants a change of scenery."

The GM said he thought the turning point was when the Bruins signed center Brad Boyes, who is thought of highly by management.




''Maybe with the way we've signed different players, he looks at our team and says, 'I don't know where they're going to put me,' " said O'Connell.

So far, there hasn't been any interest in Hilbert from the other 29 teams.

''None at all," said O'Connell. ''We've been working the phones, both [assistant GM Jeff Gorton] and myself, and nothing's cooking there."

So it looks like the real crunch/crisis could be pushed out into the season. It looks like Mogilny+ can exist under Elias' cap hit until Elias returns.

True that the big salary cap crisis will occur when Elias returns. But even without the Elias situation the Devils will be faced with a payroll in excess of the cap. Even though it might not be a major cut Lou will probably have to dump about $1 million or more just to get under by Oct. 1st. This does not even take into account if Stevens plays this season.

When Elias is finally cleared to play it will definitley be an interesting situation to watch unfold.

True that the big salary cap crisis will occur when Elias returns. But even without the Elias situation the Devils will be faced with a payroll in excess of the cap. Even though it might not be a major cut Lou will probably have to dump about $1 million or more just to get under by Oct. 1st. This does not even take into account if Stevens plays this season.

When Elias is finally cleared to play it will definitley be an interesting situation to watch unfold.I'm so pleased you are so concerned about this. It was nice to know that Lou was working on our salary cap issues, but now that we have you here, perhaps Lou could use your help. :)

Seriously, there is a little over a month before the October 1 deadline, and camps haven't even opened yet. The Devils are loaded with veterans at all positions, so I think trading some of these guys will be the least of our worries. Teams have evaluated their strengths and weaknesses on paper, but players haven't skated together as a team for over a year. Add to that the fact that multitudes of players have swapped teams, and you have great uncertainty in every organization at this time. My point is that there are going to be many more player moves before October 1st. Players will be traded, cut or sent down during camp, so I have absolutely NO DOUBT that Lou will do many things to get the Devils under the cap. Dumping a $1 million will not be one of those things, however, because unless Lou goes on vacation for the next 30+ days, he won't need to.

Players will be traded, cut or sent down during camp, so I have absolutely NO DOUBT that Lou will do many things to get the Devils under the cap. Dumping a $1 million will not be one of those things, however, because unless Lou goes on vacation for the next 30+ days, he won't need to.

Could you tell me where you bought those rose-colored glasses from? I heard that everything looks great through a pair of those.

I have no doubt that Lou will do many things to get under the cap too. You know why? Because he has to. It is not like he has the option to start the season over the cap. And how do you know that Lou won't dump a player to get under the cap?

Everything that I have posted regarding this matter are facts.

It is a fact that the Devils are over the cap.

It is a fact that no other team that has been in cap trouble has received anything more than a 3rd round pick in a trade.

Lou could be the exception this offseason and could make a terrific deal to get out of trouble. But until that time comes there is no reason to believe that Lou will make out any better than Burke or Sutter did. Unless of course you have some sort of proof to back up your theory.

Everything that I have posted regarding this matter are facts.

It is a fact that the Devils are over the cap.

It is a fact that no other team that has been in cap trouble has received anything more than a 3rd round pick in a trade.Just because "no other team in cap trouble has received anything more than a 3rd round pick in trade," it does not necessarily follow that that is the Devils CEO/President/General Manager's only recourse.

I am fairly certain that Lou Lamoriello isn't sitting in his East Rutherford office worried about what he is going to do. He would not have signed Mogilny had he not know what his options would be. He's one of the finest executives in sports over the last 22 years, dating back to his days as Athletic Director at Providence College.

In the summer of 2004, Lou Lamoriello qualified several players, including Kozlov, Hrdina and Friesen. He said at the time that he would not have qualified all the players that he did if he didn't have trade options for those players. It is certainly not unreasonable to think that he qualified the players this summer, as well signed Alexander Mogilny, with similar options. Wouldn't you agree?

In the summer of 2004, Lou Lamoriello qualified several players, including Kozlov, Hrdina and Friesen. He said at the time that he would not have qualified all the players that he did if he didn't have trade options for those players. It is certainly not unreasonable to think that he qualified the players this summer, as well signed Alexander Mogilny, with similar options. Wouldn't you agree?

I would agree with you except a certain GM in Anaheim did almost the exact same thing. He qualified all of his RFA's and then signed Scott Niedermayer to a large contract and also signed Teemu Selanne.

Alot of Anaheim fans said 'Burke knows what he's doing. I am sure he has a plan'. Which apparantly he did. A week later he traded away a gritty forward (Leclerc) for a conditional pick in 2007. He then dealt his team's captain (Rucchin) to the Rangers for an enforcer (Gillies) and another conditional pick in 2007. So just because a GM has a plan doesn't always mean it's a good or popular one.

I would agree with you except a certain GM in Anaheim did almost the exact same thing. He qualified all of his RFA's and then signed Scott Niedermayer to a large contract and also signed Teemu Selanne.

Alot of Anaheim fans said 'Burke knows what he's doing. I am sure he has a plan'. Which apparantly he did. A week later he traded away a gritty forward (Leclerc) for a conditional pick in 2007. He then dealt his team's captain (Rucchin) to the Rangers for an enforcer (Gillies) and another conditional pick in 2007. So just because a GM has a plan doesn't always mean it's a good or popular one.

Why is it a bad plan to qualify an RFA and then trade him for a pick instead of letting him walk?

Why is it a bad plan to qualify an RFA and then trade him for a pick instead of letting him walk?

It isn't...
4check22 and Puddy are the one saying that Lou would not sign an RFA and then dump them.

It isn't...
4check22 and Puddy are the one saying that Lou would not sign an RFA and then dump them.What???!!!!??? I put the statement of my last post in bold for you. I said players wouldn't be DUMPED. Of course players will be traded. I have been a HUGE proponent of Colin White's departure. All I was pointing out to you (in my rose-colored glasses apparently) was that Lou would swing deals during camp because that is more than likely when the need will be greatest.

What???!!!!??? I put the statement of my last post in bold for you. I said players wouldn't be DUMPED. Of course players will be traded. I have been a HUGE proponent of Colin White's departure. All I was pointing out to you (in my rose-colored glasses apparently) was that Lou would swing deals during camp because that is more than likely when the need will be greatest.

Well then I guess it comes down to what your definition of a salary dump is then. I consider trading away a guy who makes $1 million or more (White, Kozlov or Friesen) for nothing more than a draft pick a salary dump.

Also I have stated before that making trades during camp will probably be the worst time to make trades. This will be a period where other teams payrolls will be at their highest levels. It will be difficult for most teams to take on salary at this point. Also it has been established that teams will probably try to avoid losing players to waivers as this will still affect a teams cap. So teams will not have alot of options with their 1-way contracted players.

Well then I guess it comes down to what your definition of a salary dump is then. I consider trading away a guy who makes $1 million or more (White, Kozlov or Friesen) for nothing more than a draft pick a salary dump.

And what's so wrong with "dumping" Friesen for picks or a non-stud prospect? A number of people in the media were suprised that Lou actually gave Friesen a QO. My guess is that keeping Friesen was a back up plan in case he failed to land someone like Mogilny. Lou is cautious about bringing FAs who haven't been Devils (or at least been coached by Hitchcock or Sutter). This is especially crucial now because any FA has to fit with the team right away since Elias is out. So the list of FAs Lou was going after would have been very small.

So instead letting Jeff walk, he can prevent a contender signing him for cheap and get something out of it. Then again, I didn't think dumping Roenick so they could sign a better player was a bad move by Flyers. Now if Lou dumped Friesen, White and Kozlov for crap, the anti-Lou contingency can come back and gloat (politely).

Geeeeze, give it a rest. If your right, bring the thread to the top a month from now and say I told you so.


But to argue and not have all the facts, when hardly anyone has seen the CBA, when almost no one really knows what the Devils fanancial situation is;




Is just plain silly.