Parise or Vanek??

trying to keep the devil blinders off, who do you think is a better prospect overall Between Z.Parise & T.Vanek? and who will have a better point total at the end of this season?? Thoughts?

Depends on icetime... they're very comprable in terms of point potential. I give Vanek the edge offensively, Parise the edge defensively. Vanek will have many more goals.

That's a hard one. Vanek will be the better goal scorer, while Zach can finish, his game is different. Both excellent prospects, but apples and oranges between their game.

Alright,
let me re-word this one, I am in a deep keeper fantasy hockey league. I have both Vanek & Parise at the league minimum 1-buck, both are signed for the next 3-years at that dollar, I can only keep one, with whom is my money/roster spot better filled?

My league uses 12 forwards, cat's are
> Goals
> Assists
> Pim's
> +/-
> Specialty points (short handed goal, power play goals & helpers)

Also I currently have Havlat, Spezza, Nash, Zherdev, Palffy & S.fedorov on my active forward roster besides Vanek & Parise...who would you take??
:confused: :dunno: :confused: :dunno:

I'd put Parise in. Vanek isn't going to get as much ice time, have as good a +/-, or have linemates as good as Parise.

Alright then,
give me your best predictions as for goal-point totals for the two of them?

Will either of them even make it to the 45-point total this season? Possible PP time for either?

Goals - Parise 15 Vanek 25
Assists Parise 35-40 Vanek 20
Pim's Parise 40-50 Vanek 60-70
+/- Parise +8 Vanek -6
Specialty points - Parise could find himself on the 2nd PP unit with Friesen and Gionta, but Vanek is also likely to see some PP time. Parise could very easily be on the Devil's 2nd PK unit, especially if Elias doesn't return.

Parise/Vanek rookie season forecast

Goals: Parise 23 / Vanek 27 - edge Vanek
Assists: Parise 42 / Vanek 30 - edge Parise
PIM's: Parise 43 / Vanek ??? but likely more considering the Sabres don't play as disciplined a game as the Devils do penalties-wise. - edge Vanek
+/-: Parise +13 / Vanek -3 - edge Parise
Specialty Points: Could go either way as DownFromNJ notes above - draw, but I think Zach Parise will have the better scoring linemates in Jersey on the PP and PK.

Parise/Vanek rookie season forecast

Goals: Parise 23 / Vanek 27 - edge Vanek
Assists: Parise 42 / Vanek 30 - edge Parise
PIM's: Parise 43 / Vanek ??? but likely more considering the Sabres don't play as disciplined a game as the Devils do penalties-wise. - edge Vanek
+/-: Parise +13 / Vanek -3 - edge Parise
Specialty Points: Could go either way imo. -draw

The goal and assist totals seem a bit optimistic, although who knows what the "new" NHL will bring. Kovalchuk was barely on pace for 65 points his rookie year, and I'm doubting Parise/Vanek get the 18:32 of ice time that Kovalchuk got in his rookie year. Elias was our leading ice time at forward with 18:46. Gomez only averaged 16:00 a game.

I'm probably a bit more conservative in expectations for rookies, I figure Parise and Vanek to be closer to 40 points than 60.

Thanks for the help, I saw them as being pretty close also, with maybe a slight edge to parise due to being on a better team, and since my weakest cat last season was +/- (mainly due to nash & zherdev) I might just lean towards parise..

Thanks again.. :handclap:

I'd put Parise in. Vanek isn't going to get as much ice time, have as good a +/-, or have linemates as good as Parise.
He'll probably get more ice time. He'll be on one of the top 2 lines and will get plenty of PP time.

Take Vanek. His offensive potential is certainly higher than Parise.

He'll probably get more ice time. He'll be on one of the top 2 lines and will get plenty of PP time.

Take Vanek. His offensive potential is certainly higher than Parise.
Its all depends if Elias is back early. If so then I could see Parise play with Elias and Gionta while Gomez plays with Brylin and Mogilny. If Parise gets some time with Elias he should put up good numbers.

Fantasy wise... I might take Vanek, though I think their point totals, especially this season, will be very similar.

If we are talking overall player, I think in the long run, Parise will be the better NHL player. Though I have no doubt Vanek will be a great player as well. I'm sure because I'm saying this he will make a career out of slicing and dicing Marty and future Devs netminders. :shakehead

The goal and assist totals seem a bit optimistic, although who knows what the "new" NHL will bring. Kovalchuk was barely on pace for 65 points his rookie year, and I'm doubting Parise/Vanek get the 18:32 of ice time that Kovalchuk got in his rookie year. Elias was our leading ice time at forward with 18:46. Gomez only averaged 16:00 a game.

I'm probably a bit more conservative in expectations for rookies, I figure Parise and Vanek to be closer to 40 points than 60. My rationale for this is that Zach Parise will earn the 2nd line center spot and play with the likes of Patrik Elias, Alexander Mogilny, Jamie Langenbrunner, Brian Gionta, Jeff Friesen/Victor Kozlov (if still with the team), and possibly Aleksander Suglobov over the course of the regular season. He should have a better supporting cast at his disposal then what the Atlanta Thrashers and Kovalchuk had to work with back in 2001-2002. Their best center was Tony Hrkac followed by Patrik Stefan and Pascal Rheaume at the time.

Parise should see plenty of icetime with the man advantage on one of the top pairings and be a 4-on-4 OT regular. I anticipate Larry Robinson will have him killing a fair number of penalties with defensively responsible scoring threats like Patrik Elias as well.

The Buffalo Sabres lost their top scoring winger in Miroslav Satan (57 points in 82 games), their 2nd best offensive minded defenseman in Alexei Zhitnik (don't think Buffalo has even replaced him yet), and essentially had three centers among their top 5 point scorers in 2003-2004.

Thomas Vanek will likely be playing with the likes of JP Dumont (53 points in 77 games), Maxim Afinogenov (31 points in 73 games), Mike Grier (29 points in 82 games), Ales Kotalik (26 points in 62 games), Taylor Pyatt (20 points in 63 games) and Tim Connolly who hasn't played in 2 years after some serious concussions etc... unless they have plans to shift Briere, Drury, or Hecht, to wing this year.

Trent Hunter scored 51 points in 77 games while Michael Ryder finished with 63 points in 81 games which gives me reason to believe Zach Parise can put up similar numbers with more scoring depth on the wing now that Mogilny is a Devil.

Will parise play for the devils or the ahl team?

Will parise play for the devils or the ahl team?
I'd say 90% certain it'll be for the Devils. As long as a young player can handle themselves, Lou and the Devils are not afraid to throw kids with the big boys.

I think the more relevant question is what role will he have?

Will parise play for the devils or the ahl team?
Barring something incredibly tragic like the Dany Heatley/Dan Snyder car accident, Zach Parise should get regular ice time with the New Jersey Devils this season. Count on it.

They Have been awefully close offensively at every level they have played together

Vanek
2002-03 U. of Minnesota NCAA 45 31 31 62 60
2003-04 U. of Minnesota NCAA 38 26 25 51 72
2004-05 Rochester Americans AHL 74 42 26 68 62

Parise
2002-03 U. of North Dakota NCAA 39 26 35 61 34
2003-04 U. of North Dakota NCAA 37 23 32 55 24
2004-05 Albany River Rats AHL 73 18 40 58 56


I don't see how anyone could say Vanek has more offensive potential? While it is pretty awesome that Vanek had 42 goals in the AHL, you've got to remember he played on the best regular season AHL team while Parise played on one of the worst and both finished 2nd on their perspective team in scoring.


Parise has the intangibles in my opinion. Parise by all acounts is captain material, I'm not so sure that is true about Vanek.

One interesting thing to note both scored 6 game winning goals.........Parise had 6 game winning goals on 18 goals, Vanek had 6 on 42 goals

Parise also had 2 shorthanded goals and Vanek had none.

Parise was -11 and Vanek -3 Rochester only had 2 players in there top 10 in scoring who were a minus, Vanek was one of them. Albany only had 1 player who was a plus on there entire team and 5 of the top 10 players had a -11 or worse.


So far in their careers I'm calling it Even

A few Sabres fans are of the opinion that Zach Parise will be a very good 2nd line center at his maximum potential while Vanek projects to an elite 1st line scoring winger. I guess we'll find out in a few years time. I think Lou and Conte both envision Parise as a first line center and captain down the road as opposed to being limited to 2nd line duty.

id peronsally take vanek, he indeed does have more offensive potential but parise is a guy u cant go wrong with at all

id peronsally take vanek, he indeed does have more offensive potential but parise is a guy u cant go wrong with at all
Honestly man, you couldn't go wrong with either one.

id peronsally take vanek, he indeed does have more offensive potential but parise is a guy u cant go wrong with at all


I still don't get it.........How can you say one has more offensive potential when both have played in the same league for 3 years and the same division for 2 years and have virtually the same exact numbers :dunno:

Seems a little strange to me.........I'm not saying which will turn out better, I am saying there absolutely NO BASIS to claim one has more potential.

Parise was -11 and Vanek -3 Rochester only had 2 players in there top 10 in scoring who were a minus, Vanek was one of them. Albany only had 1 player who was a plus on there entire team and 5 of the top 10 players had a -11 or worse

just want to add that the +/- of Rochester's forwards was generally very low. If you say Vanek was one of two that was minus then you have to mention also that the rest wasnt anything to write home about either. From your comment one could get the idea that whenever Vanek was on the ice the other team scored. Generally Rochester's +/- as a team was horrible, especially since they were the best team during the regular season.

Also those numbers are not surprising if you remember Vanek had 25 PPGs.

10 of Rochester top forwards all had a +, except for Vanek.

Vanek has more goal scoring potential. Parise has more playmaking potential. Using the term "Offensively" I would call that a wash.

Parise/Vanek rookie season forecast

Goals: Parise 23 / Vanek 27 - edge Vanek
Assists: Parise 42 / Vanek 30 - edge Parise


So Parise is going to go from 18 goals in the AHL to 23 in the NHL? I doubt it. Vanek will be on the Sabres top PP unit and will get plenty of ice time. He's much more dynamic and a better fantasy player.

So Parise is going to go from 18 goals in the AHL to 23 in the NHL? I doubt it. Vanek will be on the Sabres top PP unit and will get plenty of ice time. He's much more dynamic and a better fantasy player.
I fail to see how the fact he scored 18 goals in the AHL can't translate into more goals in the NHL. Take a look for instance Elias who scored 27 goals for Albany in 1995-96, he already has bypassed that figure five times for the Devils.

I fail to see how the fact he scored 18 goals in the AHL can't translate into more goals in the NHL. Take a look for instance Elias who scored 27 goals for Albany in 1995-96, he already has bypassed that figure five times for the Devils.

He first "bypassed" that number in 1999-2000.

He first "bypassed" that number in 1999-2000.
You mean his rookie year, yeah I''m expecting a 15-20 goal season, but it all depends how big he will be in their plans.

I still don't get it.........How can you say one has more offensive potential when both have played in the same league for 3 years and the same division for 2 years and have virtually the same exact numbers :dunno:

Seems a little strange to me.........I'm not saying which will turn out better, I am saying there absolutely NO BASIS to claim one has more potential.
You just can't go by stats alone. I watched Vanek almost 40 times last season, there is just something about him offensively. When he gets the puck, his patience and vision are unbelievable. Granted, I only saw Parise 1 or 2 times, but I did pay attention to him and while he was solid in every zone, he just wasn't as dangerous on offense.

It was also mentioned that Vanek benefitted from being on a good team. I won't disagree, but Rochester is also a defense first team. The fact that he got 42 goals on Rochester is amazing considering how they play. If he played on a more open team he could have hit 50.

You just could not go wrong with either one. I would at this point Take Vanek if I had to pick one, but if Parise was my only option I would call myself lucky also. As far as this season goes one has to remember one thing, the Devils are a better team in every zone then the sabers are, this will help Parise both number wise and by felling comfortable and getting acclimated to the NHL. Both will be future all-stars in my mind..

just want to add that the +/- of Rochester's forwards was generally very low. If you say Vanek was one of two that was minus then you have to mention also that the rest wasnt anything to write home about either. From your comment one could get the idea that whenever Vanek was on the ice the other team scored. Generally Rochester's +/- as a team was horrible, especially since they were the best team during the regular season.

Also those numbers are not surprising if you remember Vanek had 25 PPGs.


Thanks for finding the truth.... 25 ppgs!!!!! :clap:

Bottom Line

Vanek
2002-03 45 games 62 points
Parise
2002-03 39 games 61 points

Vanek 1.37 PPG Parise 1.56 PPG



Vanek
2003-04 38 games 51 points
Parise
2003-04 37games 55 points

Vanek 1.34 PPG Parise 1.49 PPG


Vanek
2004-05 74games 68 points
Parise
2004-05 73 58 points


Vanek .919 PPG Parise .794 PPG = Vanek playing on the Best Reglar season team Parise playing on one of the 3 worst.


There numbers are virtually the same at every level they have played together for the last 3 years.


I fail to see where one has more "offensive potential"........When Parise played on a better team he put better numbers, when Vanek played a better team, Vanek put up better numbers....Its really that simply

So Parise is going to go from 18 goals in the AHL to 23 in the NHL? I doubt it. Vanek will be on the Sabres top PP unit and will get plenty of ice time. He's much more dynamic and a better fantasy player. I can see it happening with Larry Robinson as coach in addition to the wingers currently pegged to play on the top two scoring lines in NJ as the team is presently constituted. Elias, Mogilny, Friesen, Langenbrunner, Gionta, and Kozlov all should help a terrific playmaker like Zach Parise achieve these marks. My feeling right now is that Parise will see plenty of ice time and play an integral role with the Devils PP just as Vanek will with the Sabres. NJ appears to me to have the clear edge in better goal scoring finishers available for play on the top two lines when compared with Buffalo. This should be to Zach's advantage.