Columbus vs. Nashville

Who will do better this season?

(just as a point of reference, I ask this question after reading this thread: http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?threadid=15410)

Nashville by 10 points. And that's if their defense unit doesn't gel that well. Probably 15-20 if the unit gels and takes off. They've been playing in a defensive system for years, they only have to worry about scoring goals. "Defense system" is a taboo phrase in the Jackets lockerroom.

Columbus by 5-7 points. Defense and goaltending is acceptable, but Nashville doesnt have any leadership, and doesnt have very much firepower.

First things first, I don't want to come accross as some sort of belligerent anti-BJ's fan. I think the BJ's are building a good one and for the sake of the rivalry, I throw barbs here and there. But I do legitimately think the Predators are better. I don't think people realistically analyze the Predators losses/acquisitions because simply, they don't know better. They view players like Kloucek and Zidlicky as bad simply because they are new. Nevermind that Kloucek was the Rag$ top prospect according to several on HF only days before he became a Predator. And Zids, last year, was arguably the best Dman outside of the NHL last year.

Plus, I'm still not sold on Marchant. He's only had one good year and I think he is closer to Greg Johnson than he is to a 60 point per year player. I think the loss of Whitney is going to hurt. He was a .8 point per game player for Columbus, I don't see Marchant filling that void. I see Columbus getting better. But I don't see them passing the Predators.

I'm sure that with a mere post I can change the predjuiced mind of a bitter rival and make him think that we're better than they are. :rolleyes:

Adding Sydor? "Bah."
Marchant and Letowski? "Eh."
Brathwaite coming on board? Totally ignored.
Ray Whitney leaving - "OH! There's the key factor!!"

Puh-leeze. You complain that people bag Nashville because players are new and then comment that Marchant won't replace Whitney's points?

:joker:

Talk about people not getting it...

"Defense system" is a taboo phrase in the Jackets lockerroom.
Good one, Sir Ozzie!:joker:
I like a lot of the moves the BJs are making. I do think Whitney's points will be missed. And offense-wise, they have made some great picks. They will be a team to reckon with someday. Not to mention their great fans...

I think the Preds will have a higher point total at the end of this year, though. And anybody that questions leadership has not even read the profiles of the players. One thing you could ding the Preds on is picking TOO MANY character players. Hartnell, Hall, Upshall, Tootoo, Hamhuis among others have all been captains in the past and are leadership candidates.

Well said, 3mta3.

The Preds added "the best defenseman outside the NHL" for this season. Well, we added a pretty good defenseman who has been INSIDE the NHL for 10+ seasons. I say we win that argument.

And I'm getting pretty g.d. sick of the Marchant replacing Whitney crap. MARCHANT IS NOT WHITNEY'S REPLACEMENT. Please, read that sentence 3, 4, 72, 192 times so you understand it, folks. Rick Nash is Whitney's replacement. Doug has said that hundreds of times. Nash would not have been able to receive the amount of ice time MacLean wanted if Whitney was taking up a spot on the 2nd line. Marchant, Letowski, and Sydor will MORE than make up the remaining offensive slack.

I also say that the Brathwaite addition is the single most underrated free-agent move made in the NHL this offseason.

everybody else saying Denis on that thread. Of course, will all the off season moves and the change of direction with training camp and with the amount of rookies/unproven players Nashville (by the Way..this bluejackets fan will never say new players are bad, just that they hare unproven still, just like Nash was at this time last year) will be playing with this year, You can't assume a fresh-faced lineup of rookies with potential will carry your team forward immediately after losing vetern leadership. how can you not think Columbus will better? 6-8 points

FYI, I was NOT trying to reply Marchant was replacing Whitney. I think Nash will face tougher matchups this year now he is more of a known quantity. So to say he is going to greatly exceed last year's point total is quite a leap, IMHO.

FYI, I was NOT trying to reply Marchant was replacing Whitney. I think Nash will face tougher matchups this year now he is more of a known quantity. So to say he is going to greatly exceed last year's point total is quite a leap, IMHO.

I think what you said was pretty clear, and I did not read that into your comment.

I agree with you that Nash will be facing better matchups. In addition to that, the refs have already labeled him a diver - and watch him like a hawk. It's shaping up to be one helluva sophomore jinx. ;)

Nash's additional ice time and linemates will help offset all of the negative factors. I forsee an increase in points overall, and expect around 50 from him.

FYI, I was NOT trying to reply Marchant was replacing Whitney. I think Nash will face tougher matchups this year now he is more of a known quantity. So to say he is going to greatly exceed last year's point total is quite a leap, IMHO.

First of all. No one said Nash is going to greatly exceed last years point totals. But instead that the combunation of Nash, Letowski, Marchant and a healthy Knutsen, should have no problem replacing whitney's point totals. Thats not including Klesla, who is primed for a break out season, or Sydor.

Secondly, This team will be better defenisvely. Bringing in Marchant, Letowski, Skydor and Brathwaite, were moves that will help shore up the defensive side of the ice... while making the team better.

We dont need to replace whitney with another point per game player. If the players we have are able to reduce our goals against by .5 goals a game, and are able to score .5 goals a game then we have replaced whitneys points... I am not saying Marchant will save us .5 goals a game... but this is just a rough overview of the motivation behind these moves, and the think that goes along with it.

First of all. No one said Nash is going to greatly exceed last years point totals. But instead that the combunation of Nash, Letowski, Marchant and a healthy Knutsen, should have no problem replacing whitney's point totals. Thats not including Klesla, who is primed for a break out season, or Sydor.

Secondly, This team will be better defenisvely. Bringing in Marchant, Letowski, Skydor and Brathwaite, were moves that will help shore up the defensive side of the ice... while making the team better.

We dont need to replace whitney with another point per game player. If the players we have are able to reduce our goals against by .5 goals a game, and are able to score .5 goals a game then we have replaced whitneys points... I am not saying Marchant will save us .5 goals a game... but this is just a rough overview of the motivation behind these moves, and the think that goes along with it.

Brathwaite was a great pickup. Mac really scored on that one.

And you guys may be right on. I certainly agree that lowering the GAA will improve the BJs win/loss record. It is exactly what Nashville is trying to do-- free the forwards to play less defense by adding speed and skill to the blue line. Not that anybody else in the NHL seems to think it will work. At least you guys still have something of a honeymoon from the national media.

I want the Central to be very competitive. I think outsiders underestimate the positive impact having more talented D will have on the Preds. Probably the Jackets as well. Here's hoping we are both right and show the skeptics!

Brathwaite was a great pickup. King really scored on that one.

NOOOOOOOOO! Mentioning K*** is a cardinal sin around here!!! :D

I'm sure you meant that MacLean scored on that one.

Nash will face tougher matchups, but he'll get more ice time with better linemates, plus more powerplay time. He's bigger and stronger, and I think he'll surprise some folks. Time will tell.

Long-term, the remake of Nashville's d-corp will definitely benefit the Preds - no question. But (as demonstrated by Rusty Klesla) talent alone does not make an NHL d-man - there's a steep learning curve for even the best. I expect N'ville to have some problems defensively, particularly early, and it will be interesting to see how the team chemistry stands the strain. Just my opinion ....

If the Jackets come together as a team and play sound defense, they will finish ahead of Nashville in a close race. If they don't, they will finish something like 5-10 points behind them. Now that the early "finding the players" phase of camp is over, we'll see if MacLean - as coach - can get Columbus playing organized D.

One thought about Ray Whitney; with the exception of one year in Florida, every year of Ray Whitney's career his NHL team has underachieved. Could be a coincidence. But team chemistry is a powerful thing. This season will be an interesting case to test this theory.

Just my opinions ....

NOOOOOOOOO! Mentioning K*** is a cardinal sin around here!!! :D

I'm sure you meant that MacLean scored on that one.
yes, i don't know WHAT I was thinking-- I edited and fixed that. Thanks for keeping me straight...

Seven words for why the Jackets will destroy the Preds this season:

"We have Andrej Nedorost and you don't"

Leaves you trembling, doesn't it?

Seven words for why the Jackets will destroy the Preds this season:

"We have Andrej Nedorost and you don't"

Leaves you trembling, doesn't it?

LOL, we have no one named Andrej and no one named Nedorost. We're screwed :D

DJ Anomosity. I never said Marchant would take Whitney's spot on the lineup, but he is being brought in to help ease the loss of Whitney's 70 points a year. My contention is that Marchant will have a solid 50 point season but will Nash be able to cover the rest? Maybe we shouldn't look at it this way. Maybe we should just analyze who they brought in.

Marchant - a solid 3rd liner in Edmonton, he's good for 40 to 50 points (or he might be unless last year was a fluke).

Sydor - solid offensive Dman. Great pickup. But won't cure any of those defensive woes that are of primary concern.

Brathwaite - just don't see this impacting W/L that much. He's going to see 15 or so games a year. Just pray to God last year was a fluke.\

Letowski - solid 3rd liner in the NHL but nothing more. Expect around 30 points from him.

I see the offense getting slightly better (slightly depending on the devlopment of Nash), but unless MacLean's promise to go 'defensive' pans out, I don't see them jumping past the Predators.

Let's put it this way, if both clubs stay healthy, I don't see Columbus as having surpassed Nashville. Barring injury, last year, we were the superior team. Now, if one of us gets a bad rash of injuries (like the Preds had last year) then all bets are off (look at L.A.).

I never said Marchant would take Whitney's spot on the lineup, but he is being brought in to help ease the loss of Whitney's 70 points a year.

Right, you never said he would - you said he wouldn't.

Plus, I'm still not sold on Marchant.... I think the loss of Whitney is going to hurt. He was a .8 point per game player for Columbus, I don't see Marchant filling that void.

He's not expected to.

Barring injury, last year, we were the superior team.

Barring other factors like wins, losses, ties, overtime wins and losses, schedules, player performance, the opposition, officiating, holdouts, contract disputes, biorythmic swings...

Brathwaite - just don't see this impacting W/L that much. He's going to see 15 or so games a year

So 10 points or so in the standings isn't that big a deal? You'll gladly spot me them then if we wager?

Sydor - solid offensive Dman. Great pickup. But won't cure any of those defensive woes that are of primary concern.

Great point. We should have looked to the AHL or overseas instead of trading for Sydor.

I think that either team could finish ahead of one another. It will be by a large margin. Whichever teams Goltenders dont suck will finish lower.

And as for Nashivlles Defense(Id rather not get into this so I will keep it short) "It it aint broke, don't fix it"

Right, you never said he would - you said he wouldn't. He's not expected to.

Of course he isn't expected to, because he can't. I'm just analyzing that. Not that he will, just that he can't and that will hurt (to some degree), despite what you want to think.



Barring other factors like wins, losses, ties, overtime wins and losses, schedules, player performance, the opposition, officiating, holdouts, contract disputes, biorythmic swings...

I mention injuries and you throw out this? I mention one thing, which is a major X-factor in the NHL and you respond with... Something tells me I want to be arguing with Aaron or Samkow or even DJ on this one. This just isn't very fulfilling.



So 10 points or so in the standings isn't that big a deal? You'll gladly spot me them then if we wager?

I misstated. I should have said, he won't impact W/L in a positive way IMO. He'll be ho hum but he won't do anything that will help the BJ's take it to the next level. His numbers have never been very impressive. The BJ's win games oftentimes because of Denis and like the Predators, the dropoff from starter to backup is quite large. I don't consider Brathwaite a good backup unless he reverts to the form of 3 years ago. That's alot to ask.



Great point. We should have looked to the AHL or overseas instead of trading for Sydor.

Do you think Sydor is a great defender? He is an average at best defense player with wonderful offense abilities. Never said you should look to the AHL or overseas like the Preds, just that he won't make your defense better at defense. That's all that was said there.

Sadly, every single comment you made offered absolutely little to no substance. Your comments are the equivalent of ESPN's power rankings; if you don't write more than one sentence, you don't have to rationalize your thoughts. Your harsh, abrasive style just doesn't argue well. Leave the arguing to Samkow, DJ, TBJF,contingent_23 and Oz. Better yet, I'll do it for you. Unless of course, you respond without being a jackass and provide some substance.

I'll say this as well because it needs to be said. The Blue Jackets are relying on Free Agents to take them to the next level. Am I the only one who feels this is a dangerous strategy. It's hasn't exactly been successful in Columbus before (with regard to taking Columbus to the next level) or in many other places in the NHL, why is it going to be successful here? This is a legitimate question and unless there is a glaring flaw in the argument presented, I am just going to sit back and let Columbus fans talk about this one. I'm curious and I'll be the first to say I don't know as much about Columbus as I do about Nashville (though I follow Columbus more than most any non-Columbus fan).

p.s This is your chance to redeem yourself 3mta3 ;)

Say what you want about the talent level of all your new defensemen, but they are still NEW defensemen. Defense is the hardest position in hockey and the kids wont be up to it. Look at a team like Calgary who have a great crop of young defensemen. Your going to be great 2 or 3 years from now, but until then, theyre going to take thier lumps. You cant just throw kids into the mix and expect them to play as well as they have in juniors or Europe or the AHL or wherever. Kids make mistakes. Mistakes lead to poor overall defense. Since you added no noteable offense and your defence is going to go down, how could you do anything but receed?

Even if Whitney's loss takes away some offense, we feel that Marchant, Nash and Sydor will take up some of it. The rest will be evened out by the improved defensive play that Marchant, Letowski, Sydor and Brathwaite all bring. Along with removing Whitney who was a far bigger defensive liability than Jody Shelley ever was.

And seriously, cant in todays day and age of pro sports, cant we finally get over the whole idea that adding players through free agency is bad? I mean does this have any basis in fact? Sure you can look at the Rangers and say that its obviously not a gaurantee to wins. But even the Devils and Ducks had signifigant players in thier lineups for the final who they didnt draft or get as a youngster. For every John Madden theres a Jeff Friesen. For Marty Broudeur theres a Scott Stevens. Im not going to go on on this subject. Lets start a new thread for it if we want to argue this one.

Oh yeah. Again, if you dont have Nedorost on your team, whos going to take you to the promised land? I mean are you going to trade for Mario? No. So you better get yourself and "NHL ready" 7th rounder who has struggled to put up points at every level and give him a spot on a scoring line. Dont bother making him earn it. That would just tire him out anyway. (Sorry, couldnt resist :D )

This really IS a Columbus vs. Nashville thread, eh:joker:

OOOOHHHH! You taunted me into giving you depth and substance. Well done. :rolleyes: I guess if you can't get it from your roster, you have to find it somewhere. I suppose I can be a nice guy occasionally and give into a charity case looking for some meaty reading...

Here goes:

Of course he isn't expected to, because he can't. I'm just analyzing that. Not that he will, just that he can't and that will hurt (to some degree), despite what you want to think.

You STILL mention Marchant filling Whitney's shoes after getting taken to task for it three times. You don't get it. It's not up to me to explain it to you. Ask someone who you like talking to to explain it to you. Apparently I am to big and mean for you. After hearing you say "I'm not saying that" then you say it again, I seriously question your ability to get the point. Besides, there were no one liners on ESPN for me to copy and paste here about the subject.

I mention injuries and you throw out this?

I guess leaving off the smiley makes me seem like more of a jackass than I intended. That was supposed to be somewhat humorous. Like "If my aunt had ..... she'd be my uncle". So, a belated " :) " to you, sir. Kindly apply it wherever I left bruises.

I misstated. I should have said, he won't impact W/L in a positive way IMO.

Last season Marc Denis played 77 games. Again, that's SEVENTY SEVEN GAMES. Denis was overworked and we lost games because we rode him far harder than we should have. Being able to give Marc Denis a night or two off will have an impact in the Win/Loss category because he will be the beneficiary of rest - something he did not have last season. Brathwaite is not going to set the world on fire, but he gives the Jackets something they did not have last season. He is also a great guy in the room, according to reports, and wants to challenge for the starting role. This translates to at least 10 points in the standings, in my book - EASY. Why? We aren't forced to play someone who is slumping and we don't have a team that knows we're scared to start someone else. Talk about "ho hum" performance, your in depth analysis of Freddie as a netminder reeks of skimming the surface. Brathwaite not an upgrade over Labbe? You did know our backup last season was JF Labbe, right?

As far as Sydor, you don't have to like him. I understand. If I had your defense, I'd be sour too. Cheer up, one day those guys will grow up and be veteran players too... maybe.

Now, as far as name calling goes, my dad can beat up your dad. Mine's bigger than yours. Neener, neener, neener. Meet you on the playground by the big tree after school. And in closing, yo mama.

I kind of hate to bring this up since it has definatively been decided that Nashville is better than Columbus, but, the Blue Jackets actually won more games han the Preds last season. Other key information to consider:

Columbus Nashville
Power Play 17.3% 13.9%
Penalty Kill 85.3% 82.7%
Goals For 213 183
Goals Against 263 206

I know the "it's all about the points" arguement will blow my analytical data clear out of the water but I thought I would throw that out there for comment.

Here's my arguement:

Columbus has added defensive minded forwards, Marchant and Letowski, and brought in Sydor to reduce goals against.

A healthy Espen Knutsen and more experienced Rick Nash will provide enough offense to counter the loss of Ray Whitney.

Columbus will continue to sell out at home conributing to their strong home record.

Nashville will be starting four unproven NHL defensemen that may or may not be NHL ready. It is highly unlikely that all four will have breakout seasons. Mark Eaton, one of the few proven commodities, is missing most of training camp.

Nashville has not addressed their lack of scoring. It simply is not good enough to expect players that have not scored consistently at the NHL level to all of a sudden start because it is a new year.

Goaltending depth is a question mark and Vocoun will not be able to play as many games again this season.

Summary:

Edge Columbus. It is important to remember, however, that Chicago is the real loser in the Central this coming season.

Summary:
Edge Columbus. It is important to remember, however, that Chicago is the real loser in the Central this coming season.

Your usual sterling job, Kinger!

By adding defensive help up front (Marchant, Letkowski), on the blueline (Sydor), and in goal (Brathwaite), the Jackets directly addressed their glaring defensive problems. They may have taken an offensive hit to do so, in losing Whitney.

Nashville is addressing offensive problems by remaking ONLY its d-corps.

Chicago is counting on Ruutu and Quint to upgrade their team. Ruutu sounds exciting and I look forward to seeing him. But I feel bad for Blackhawks' fans.

Nashville will be starting four unproven NHL defensemen that may or may not be NHL ready. It is highly unlikely that all four will have breakout seasons. Mark Eaton, one of the few proven commodities, is missing most of training camp.
I'm assuming you are referring to Jason York not Mark Eaton. And according to your logic on the BJ forwards, all 4 replacement D-men don't have to have breakout seasons. None of the 4 being replaced had what I would even consider an 'average' season last year. I would submit they all had sub-par performances, or they would still be anchoring the blue line for the Preds.

Nashville has not addressed their lack of scoring. It simply is not good enough to expect players that have not scored consistently at the NHL level to all of a sudden start because it is a new year.

Rick Nash will be in his sophmore year. I question whether it is 'good enough' to place the burden of increased point production on a 19 year old (talented though he may be) on the basis of one year's NHL play.

Goaltending depth is a question mark and Vocoun will not be able to play as many games again this season.

Let me get this straight. What is your basis for saying Vokoun couldn't play games on a pace equal to last year's, when you guys rode Denis at such a breakneck pace last year?

Summary: I guess we are just going to have to let the boys play them on the ice. That is the only sure way to measure results. Should be interesting...

I kind of hate to bring this up since it has definatively been decided that Nashville is better than Columbus, but, the Blue Jackets actually won more games han the Preds last season. Other key information to consider:

Columbus Nashville
Power Play 17.3% 13.9%
Penalty Kill 85.3% 82.7%
Goals For 213 183
Goals Against 263 206

I know the "it's all about the points" arguement will blow my analytical data clear out of the water but I thought I would throw that out there for comment.

Here's my arguement:

Columbus has added defensive minded forwards, Marchant and Letowski, and brought in Sydor to reduce goals against.

A healthy Espen Knutsen and more experienced Rick Nash will provide enough offense to counter the loss of Ray Whitney.

Columbus will continue to sell out at home conributing to their strong home record.

Nashville will be starting four unproven NHL defensemen that may or may not be NHL ready. It is highly unlikely that all four will have breakout seasons. Mark Eaton, one of the few proven commodities, is missing most of training camp.

Nashville has not addressed their lack of scoring. It simply is not good enough to expect players that have not scored consistently at the NHL level to all of a sudden start because it is a new year.

Goaltending depth is a question mark and Vocoun will not be able to play as many games again this season.

Summary:

Edge Columbus. It is important to remember, however, that Chicago is the real loser in the Central this coming season.

in theory, i agree with you...though it should be noted...mark eaton hasn't missed training camp. that was jason york...and he said himself that for a guy his age(31) that camp isn't as big of a deal as it is to the younger guys, and he expects to be at the top of his game when he returns(probably by the season opener.)
also..the "unproven rookies" is down to, most likely..2. maybe even 1, depending on how you look at kloucek, who has had 100 games of NHL experience already. Most likely, Hamhuis is going to start the year in Milwaukee, due to groin injury and Jamie Allison(i know, i know, but bear with me, i'll come back to him) will likely get the sixth spot, instead. that leaves our d looking like this:
Timonen
York
Kloucek
Eaton
Zidlicky
Allison
now, as far as allison goes...i know that some of you have a bias against him, and that maybe his stay in columbus was less than sparkling, but to be honest...i was kind of puzzled by his signing...but he's pleasantly surprised everyone, thus far. he's been far more solid than Hulse or Houlder were last year...and likely, he's only a fill-in until Hamhuis earns a place on the team(he's VERY close, right now) all in all...we've beat this to death, but our defense isnt' as suspect as it looks...and we don't LACK scoring. that's a common misconception. we have a team full of two way forwards that had to focus so much on defense in the past years that they could hardly concentrate on scoring. look for that to change, this year.
all in all, this is a lot of guessing(which i guess is the point) but i don't think either team has a clear cut advantage over the other. we both have our glaring weaknesses, and we both have bright spots. honestly...i think that neither of us is making the playoffs this year, but who knows...edmonton and minnesota are both going to skid, in my opinion...maybe those two vacant spots will be taken by columbus and nashville(wouldn't the die hard, old-school hockey-heads in toronto love that? :joker: )
as for a prediction...i'll do what everyone else has done..and with it too close to call...i'll make a homer pick and say nashville. my reasoning...the past couple of years, you guys have had the better team "on paper," but if you consider that calgary has what should be a MUCH better team than either of us "on paper," that goes to show you how much that's worth. nashville has a history of hard work and chemistry..and i think that's what has hurt columbus, so far. if they can find that missing piece...they could get some good things going for them.

Allison will be fine for you at a #6 IMO. I wish we still had a spot for him but we are going in a different direction. He surprised me with his fists last year and backs down from no one when clearing the crease. Hes nothing fancy but that doesnt mean he doesnt fill a need as well.

now, as far as allison goes...i know that some of you have a bias against him, and that maybe his stay in columbus was less than sparkling...

...the past couple of years, you guys have had the better team "on paper," but if you consider that calgary has what should be a MUCH better team than either of us "on paper," that goes to show you how much that's worth.

Regarding your first point - I think Allison did a great job here in Columbus. My opinion is that if people here didn't like him, they had unrealistic expectations. Jamie Allison did exactly what he could do here, and he did it well. Working hard and sticking up for teammates is what he does well. He's a respectable 5/6 guy. We didn't need him, as we have a guy named Scott Lachance who is now on our third pairing, with Duvie Wescott. Taking a younger player with offensive upside in that spot over Allison was an easy call for us. No need to keep him around as the 7th man, when we have others for that. Good luck with him. Enjoy all those pre- and post- game reports with him and his guitar. He's a great fit for your town. :)

The second point - the "on paper" one... What a mess that is. We've had better teams "on paper" in season 2 and 3 than we had "on ice" in season one. I understand "on paper" value - less than what it's printed on. On ice chemistry and coaching are HUGE. We need a season to see who has that. I'm looking forward to it.

I don't think you guys realize how many of our better offensive players missed huge parts of the season last year. Hell our top line missed a total of of 60+ games. Our captain missed 20+. You want to know how we are going to score. Legwand started breaking out this year and I expect him to continue. Scott Hartnell has really worked hard this offseason to better this skating and puck skills, I expect better numbers out of him, Arkhipov struggled last year I expect him to rebound. Also, Hulse, Houlder and Skrastins were about as bad offensively as defensemen can get any change here should be an increase in offense (definetly won't be a decrease). Someone asked why should we expect players do suddenly start putting up better numbers that haven't before. The answer is they are all young players who haven't even began to scratch the suface of thier offensive potential, with Trotz you learn defense first then offense, again see Legwand.

Ok, well we had Espen Knutsen, our #1 center our first two years, out last year and we expect him to add offense. We also expect Lachance and Klesla and Pirjeta and Nash and Wright and on and on to be better. Plus the aformentioned improved defense.

Ok, well we had Espen Knutsen, our #1 center our first two years, out last year and we expect him to add offense. We also expect Lachance and Klesla and Pirjeta and Nash and Wright and on and on to be better. Plus the aformentioned improved defense.

i know what you're saying..but...to be honest, the two situations aren't really comparable. our ENTIRE TOP LINE was out...at several points during the season...in ADDITION to our captain. the difference in the performance of the team...with those guys...and without them...about tells the whole story. dealing with injuries is part of the game...but our injuries were in line with LA and Phoenix's injuries, last year...and I think that if the number of man-games lost for us was cut in half...that's the difference between us making the playoffs\not making the playoffs, last year. but...the world will never know, i suppose.

I can understand where you are coming from, but did Nashville start out with the injuries last year early in in the season, or were they latter? They seemed to pick it up more to make the push to get in the playoffs, and then legwand got hurt, and the team kinda died. Was legwand the only one out at that point? Also, I know I don't know a ton about Nashville and you guys will probably bash me for some inconsistency, but who was your leading scorer? It seems to me that legwand it touted as your most offensive player but he barely scores 20 goals a year if that. Though you guys are saying our offense is going to be weak, we had 4 players to score over 20 goals last year, and one of them wasn't nash, who I'm sure will this year.

I can understand where you are coming from, but did Nashville start out with the injuries last year early in in the season, or were they latter? They seemed to pick it up more to make the push to get in the playoffs, and then legwand got hurt, and the team kinda died. Was legwand the only one out at that point? Also, I know I don't know a ton about Nashville and you guys will probably bash me for some inconsistency, but who was your leading scorer? It seems to me that legwand it touted as your most offensive player but he barely scores 20 goals a year if that. Though you guys are saying our offense is going to be weak, we had 4 players to score over 20 goals last year, and one of them wasn't nash, who I'm sure will this year.

we were missing...all at the same time:
walker
johansson
johnson
timonen(here and there)
yachmenev
pederson
legwand(here and there.)
at one point, we had NINE players out. when walker and johnson returned...we had the third best record in the league over 3 months(dec-mar) when legwand went down, johansson was also down. not many people can recover from losing two thirds(and often ALL) of their scoring line. legwand, it should be noted, before he went down from injury was averaging a point a game and was on pace for 27 goals. arkhipov slumped, johansson had 20 goals, despite missing most of the season. we're a defensive team though, and there wasn't a whole lot of guys outside gaborik that scored more than 20 goals on minnesota, either. for the record, i haven't said your offense will be weak...but you did lose a significant part of your scoring. i'm not saying that will kill you...because i am familiar with ray whitney. i know he can't play defense, and often causes more goals than he scores. why do you think we laugh when people point out that we "lost" andy delmore. sure he scored 18 goals...but god, he caused...easily 40+. at this point, we don't know...and neither do you. i realize that this thread was started for fun\to encourage the rivalry our two teams have going...but honestly, i think fans of both teams give the slight edge to their own team, but really...we're dealing with two pretty equal teams.

Let me get this straight. What is your basis for saying Vokoun couldn't play games on a pace equal to last year's, when you guys rode Denis at such a breakneck pace last year?

Maybe I phrased that wrong. He could play that many games again however I don't believe you would be too pleased with the results. If you were to ask any Blue Jackets fan if we wanted Marc Denis to play 77 games again this year I am certain that the resounding response would be "HELL NO". Doug Maclean even stated that playing Denis so much contributed to several of the losses last year. Maclean remedied the situation by signing Freddy B.

I expect the Preds will try to pick up a proven NHL goalie at the waiver draft, but if they don't Vokoun is sure to wear down during the season.

I can understand where you are coming from, but did Nashville start out with the injuries last year early in in the season, or were they latter? They seemed to pick it up more to make the push to get in the playoffs, and then legwand got hurt, and the team kinda died. Was legwand the only one out at that point? Also, I know I don't know a ton about Nashville and you guys will probably bash me for some inconsistency, but who was your leading scorer? It seems to me that legwand it touted as your most offensive player but he barely scores 20 goals a year if that. Though you guys are saying our offense is going to be weak, we had 4 players to score over 20 goals last year, and one of them wasn't nash, who I'm sure will this year.

Here were our injuries

Preseason -

Hartnell misses almost entire preseason with groin injury
Eaton misses almost entire preseason with broken nose
Grimson missed entire season/preseason with PCS

October -

15th - Scott Walker misses 17 games with torn rib cartilage
15th - Denis Pederson misses 3 games with groin injury
22nd - Greg Johnson misses 44 games with concussion
30th - Yachmenev misses 18 games with broken right thumb

November -

6th - Denis Pederson misses 6 games with torn left bicep tendon
7th - Andy Delmore misses 5 games with shoulder stinger
10th - Dominic Pittis misses 45 games with concussion
10th - Kimmo Timonen misses 2 games with ankle bruise
16th - Wyatt Smith misses 5 with shoulder bruise
27th - Denis Pederson misses 3 games with neck strain
29th - Andreas Johansson misses 3 games with separated shoulder

December -

3rd - Mark Eaton misses 5 games with knee injury
5th - Mike Dunham misses 3 games with strained groin
21st - Brent Gilchrist misses 1 game with ankle injury
23rd - Vitali Yachmenev misses 2 games with strained chest muscle
23rd - Vladimir Orszagh misses 3 games with pulled rib muscle

January -

4th - Scott Walker misses 2 games with neck strain
6th - Denis Pederson misses 24 games with a Mild concussion
6th - Kimmo Timonen misses 7 games with Calf contusion
14th - Tomas Vokoun misses 1 game with flu
14th - Scott Walker misses 3 games with sprained knee
18th - Brent Gilchrist misses 10 games with Back injury
21st - Andreas Johansson misses one game with influenza

February -

15th - Andreas Johansson misses 13 games with Bruised hip/Strained groin
25th - Denis Arkhipov missed 1 game with bruised shoulder

March -

1st - David Legwand misses 18 games with broken collarbone
6th - Reid Simpson misses 12 games with back spasms/shoulder/knee/head
12th - Andy Delmore misses 2 games with wrist injury
20th - Andy Delmore misses 1 game with wrist injury
22nd - Brent Gilchrist misses 5 games with shoulder injuryy
23rd - Todd Warriner misses 2 games with concussion
23rd - Andreas Johansson misses 4 games with wrist/back spasms
31st - Vladimir Orszagh misses 1 game with bruised shoulder


April -

4/1/03 - Wade Flaherty misses 3 games with groin injury
4/4/03 - Andreas Johansson misses 2 games with hip injury
4/6/03 - Todd Warriner missse 1 game with concussion



Bold indicates first line offensive or defensive players and starting goalies and captain. I would imagine that, when compared to our corresponding W/L records, you can see when the declines occur in injuries, we shot up the standings and vice versa. We lost a considerable amount of our top players earlier on and later on. As such, we were something like top 3 in the western conference over a 40 or so game stretch that is reflected by how many injuries we didn't have over that time period. It's rather revealing. It's not an excuse though as injuries are a part of the game. I just hope we don't have this bad of an injury bug this season or you guys might just be better than us.

Injuries put strains on every team, but the younger the team, the more detrimental they are. There's not as much depth in a new team as a more established club. Nashville and Columbus are great examples of that.

Of course, Nashville has a bit more of a depth problem as most of their minor league team is now their NHL defense [insert rim shot here]. Thank you, thankyaverymuch. I'll be here all week, be sure to tip your wait staff - they're working hard for ya'. Enjoy the buffett - good night!

I like the fact that Columbus is now deep enough in the defensive department that we have Scott Lachance fighting for ice time on the last pairing. He's been a career top four guy (I know he had a bad year with us - no need to bring that up!) and we have the luxury of putting him out there on the 5/6... that's a bonus.

On offense, I just don't see that depth with either of our teams. Offense is tight all around the league though.

On offense, I just don't see that depth with either of our teams. Offense is tight all around the league though.

Agreed, we don't have a helluvalot of NHL ready depth at defense but we do have alot of depth at forward. Not the type of depth that will pitch in offensively but we have a ton of guys who will likely be AHLers and yet still be acceptable 3/4th liners for the Preds. Now, they won't score any goals at all, but neither will the rest of our roster ;)

Seven words for why the Jackets will destroy the Preds this season:

"We have Andrej Nedorost and you don't"

Leaves you trembling, doesn't it?

Nice avatar :yo:

I think what you said was pretty clear, and I did not read that into your comment.

I agree with you that Nash will be facing better matchups. In addition to that, the refs have already labeled him a diver - and watch him like a hawk. It's shaping up to be one helluva sophomore jinx. ;)

Nash's additional ice time and linemates will help offset all of the negative factors. I forsee an increase in points overall, and expect around 50 from him.

There is one glaring problem with all of these arguments. Everyone is claiming that Marchant is not supposed to pick up the slack of Whintey. This is a good thing IMO, but you are relying on your young players, Nash in particular and Klesla *D* to step up their game and start producing. All I can say is this, Colorado has done this for years, and it always fails. Last year they traded Chris Drury for Derek Morris, and expected Reinprecht, Vrbata, and Tanguay to step up there game. This did not happen. Vrbata put in a few goals and so did reinprecht, but nothing that couldnt be had with Sakic on their line. Tanguay didn't start playing until put on Forsberg line, and did pick up some slack, but nothing like Drury could put out there. You can't just expect Nash to step up into a harder role, against better defenses, and score more. It takes time for youngsters to get that edge *usually*. I expect Nash to score about the same as last year. Its going to be very hard on him to face that much more ice time against harder foes. This being said. The goals have to come from somewhere, especially if your D plays poorly this year.

You guys lost Sillinger and Whitney. You added Braithewaithe to take over Labbe's spot. Freddie is better but he is not as good as you guys expect. The two had identical sv percentages last year .883 for FB and .884 for Labbe. I dont think your goalie situation has improved "that" much, unless Freddie returns to form this year. Last year he was terrible, and he played behind a loaded St. Louis team :dunno: You added Sydor, Marchant, and Letowski. While I like your moves, I do not think they will help as much as you expect...Sydor is really going to have to pay attention to his own end this year. Something he rarely had to do in Dallas with their defensive units.

After saying all this, I hope I got my message across clearly. The BJs have face-lifted their team just as much as the Preds have. Both teams 'needed' a face-lift. The Preds may not gel, and the BJs may not gel. Therefore, I feel like getting into a piss match against the Preds b/c of their scrapping their Defense is very unfounded, especially b/c having watched the Preds defense last year, I know how bad they were. You can take shots at the inexperience on NA's Blue line this year, but they are still better players then who they let go.

My final comment. I think the edge has been Nashvilles for so long b/c of the coaching and system they imply. Columbus has to come up with a better system, which they claim they will this year, to get my vote over Nashville. I think both GMs plans could backfire, but I think they both significantly improved their teams this year. Whether it pans out or not, we will find out.

My pick = Nashville. Why??? I'm biased :D , and stubbornly think that regardless of standings NA will beat Columbus consistently this year :D :D :D

... but you are relying on your young players...to step up their game and start producing. ...Colorado has done this for years, and it always fails. ... You can't just expect Nash to step up into a harder role, against better defenses, and score more. ... Its going to be very hard on him to face that much more ice time against harder foes. ...The goals have to come from somewhere, especially if your D plays poorly this year.

Columbus is not expected to win the Cup and doesn't need playoff revenue to stay out of the red. We can, quite literally, afford to let youth develop more than the Avalanche. [Also, Rick Nash will have a LOT more ice time, so the same level of performance could net as many points for the season.] Young teams grow, then once/if they become established they can deal picks and youth to keep themselves in the upper echelon. Comparing playoff mainstays and a 4th year team is quite the case of apples and oranges.

... You guys lost Sillinger and Whitney.

Yeah, we lost Sillinger and Whitney. So? Sillinger is easy to replace and Whitney's loss is no problem. The goals he scores versus the goals scored while he's on the ice is the formula to use here - not total points. Whitney did a great job here and I loved him his whole stay. We are moving past that now and we don't need players who only play in one zone. If you are Jarg or Bure, maybe you can get away with that - Ray Whitney is not that good though. With les goals scored against us, we need less goals scored. THAT is the plan here. If it will work remains to be seen, but that's the plan.

... I don't think your goalie situation has improved "that" much...

You don't think Brathwaite is that much better than Labbe? Obviously you just read some stats then. You were doing so well up until that point too! What a shame...

... I think the edge has been Nashvilles for so long b/c of the coaching and system they imply.

Excellent point. We know what system you will play because we've seen it done for a few years. We'll have to see what our coach can do in his first full season behind our bench. I would refer you to your own point about us knocking your defense. There's some apples and apples for ya'. :)

There is one glaring problem with all of these arguments. Everyone is claiming that Marchant is not supposed to pick up the slack of Whintey. This is a good thing IMO, but you are relying on your young players, Nash in particular and Klesla *D* to step up their game and start producing. All I can say is this, Colorado has done this for years, and it always fails. Last year they traded Chris Drury for Derek Morris, and expected Reinprecht, Vrbata, and Tanguay to step up there game. This did not happen.

Everyone who thinks we will miss Whitney so much never watched any Jackets games. If we were losing a player like Drury, I would agree. But Whitney is no Drury. Drury is a two way forward, whitney is a one way forward. And his one way is only average by NHL standards.

Along these lines, you can argue that we dont really know your situation with your goal scoring as we didnt follow your team as closely. I'll buy that. But there is no way you can honestly think that a whole new group of defensemen to a team that relies on a system isnt going to have a drop off for a good portion of the year. Its no knock on thier overall talent, I think we have all said that they will be great in a few years, but I dont think they will be up to par this season.

I'll venture a guess and try to explain the Jackets side of losing Whitney.

It would be acceptable if he was a one-way forward...ONLY if he wasn't -26. If he was more dominating offensively, we'd be more forgiving.

We aren't losing a 70-point player. We're losing a guy who was on the ice for 26 more goals against than for when we were even strength. Even strength was our greatest weakness.

You don't think Brathwaite is that much better than Labbe? Obviously you just read some stats then. You were doing so well up until that point too! What a shame...




Trust me I do think he is better, but I think he is not as good as some are making him out to be. He had a terrible year last year, which shocked me, but it could very well turn out that he is not the player he used to be. Understand??

Also my point is not that Whitney being gone is bad, but that there is a void that he used to fill, and his goals must be replaced. Getting rid of Whitney is great for Columbus. He is a one dimensional player, but he could score. He created oppurtunites and was excellent, or at the very least decent on the PP. Somone has to pick up the slack, and it has been my observation that goals are hard to come by, especially with the way this league is moving.

Another thing - I thought it was your goal to make the playoffs this year. If it is not, then I do not like the trade for Sydor, as you needlessly added salary. This is my reason for comparing Colorado's situation with yours, and I felt it was an easy example to understand, as the basics are the same in both yours and their cases.

Final point - I totally agree with the your comment about the coaching change. Hopefully the coaching change will do your team good. I'm never a supporter of having a team do poorly, even if they are my rivals. I look forward to an improved outing between our two teams this year. I think it will be very interesting. Chemistry is the key.....both teams revamped their lineups for the better, but who will gel the best????

But there is no way you can honestly think that a whole new group of defensemen to a team that relies on a system isnt going to have a drop off for a good portion of the year. Its no knock on thier overall talent, I think we have all said that they will be great in a few years, but I dont think they will be up to par this season.

I do say that. The Preds have consistently kept their goals against down every year save for their first year, wiht many players coming in and out. We got rid of the dead- weight, and when the dead-weight is gone, a team can move forward. The Predators were incredible in the middle of the season, it was the beginning and end that really hurt them. The beginning of the season, had no reason for the losses. At the end of the season, it was the injuries. I contest that there is almost no chance that we only win a handful of games in our first 25 - 30 like we did last year. Use those games as a learning curve for this year if you want, and I believe the Preds will once again be as ready to go as any team come mid-season. I do not think there is any way our defense could be as bad as last years, and this is my basis for why I think our D can only get better this year. Hope this gives reason to my "delusions" ;)

We'll see about that. I doubt it will happen, but you never know. We'll just have to wait and see.