SJSE and the Fog Devils

Does anyone else wonder what the hell is going on with the negations between the city appointed board the St. John’s Sports and Entertainment Limited and Fog Devils owner Derm Dobbin?

They are charging $1.7 million a year for the lease agreement of a 6,000 stadium for a major-junior franchise (the New Jersey Devils new stadium for the 06-07 season are being charged $2 million for a 18,000 NHL hockey arena)

Dobbin said he is willing to pay $10,000/ game($400,000) and will give an additional $200,000 to the city for operating costs AND 25% of the teams profit.

THEN the SJSE says under Dobbins proposal he will pocket $1.5 million profit a season while the City will be on the hook for $100,000

Commissioner Gilles Courteau in a St. John’s board of trade meeting on Friday said that no CHL team makes a million dollars profit a year, and that the Atlantic teams combined do not pay $1.7 million a year for their leases.

It’s not as if Derm Dobbin is now negotiating with a rival franchise bidder is it? O wait that is the exact situation that has developed.

SOUR GRAPES!!(crazy talk)

The SJSE said they are not willing to let Derm Dobbin get a $40 million faculty paid by the taxpayers of St. John’s for nothing(only 1/3 true as the provincial and federal governments paid 2/3 of the project)

Thus far the SJSE has lost $5 million in taxpayers money with the Baby Leafs, the numbers for last season and this season are not in yet included in the deficit, which might topple $10 million after it is all said and dome.

SJSE are also projecting the profits for Derm under both proposed agreements(it’s like they have a crystal ball or something)

Write your thoughts and vote in the poll

it is sour grapes, no doubt.

but i'll bet the deal is done by wednesday.

here's where everyone can tell sjse to screw off.

www.icethedeal.com

Well, today's the day. Time to stop the whining, Keith. If you sink this team, you'll sink the only potential tenant for your precious Mile One could attract. But I guess you aren't concerned about that, given the endless stream of concerts you have booked for the summer... what's that? Only Charlie Pride is coming? Better hope he's backing up the Brinks... probably not.

There is more to this than what is being talked about. The three main issues are signage, concessions and corporate suites.

Looking at other forum boards, corporate suites generally go in the direction of the facility BUT Dobbin is looking for 100% of revenues from that.

Does this make Dobbin look like the reasonable one? Perhaps that is the additional revenue that is being talked about because from what I have heard, corporate suites generate a fair amount of revenue.

There is more to this than what is being talked about. The three main issues are signage, concessions and corporate suites.

Looking at other forum boards, corporate suites generally go in the direction of the facility BUT Dobbin is looking for 100% of revenues from that.

Does this make Dobbin look like the reasonable one? Perhaps that is the additional revenue that is being talked about because from what I have heard, corporate suites generate a fair amount of revenue.

As I understand it the suites issue is the only legitimate beef SJSE has with Dobbin's proposed deal. The rest of it, as I understand it, is SJSE wanting the Fog Devils to pay for all the costs of Mile One for the entire year. This way SJSE doesn't have to activly go out and find tennants like concerts, curling, etc. The Fog Devils will be tennants of Mile One for 35 days out of the year, plus practice dates... why should they be responsible for the building making profits the rest of the year? The answer they shouldn't... not only is this sour grapes, it's the city trying to recoup costs without putting forth an effort to secure other tennants.

The City is winning the PR battle because whenever they say "subsidy to a hockey team", the public thinks they are battling for the tax payers. When in reality they are being lazy...

My prediction, though I hope I'm wrong, is that there will not be a deal... and there may never be one. If there isn't a deal, look for SJSE to go out and look for a AHL or ECHL team to fill Mile One. Dobbin's team will likely end up in Corner Brook permanetly in a couple of years.

As I understand it the suites issue is the only legitimate beef SJSE has with Dobbin's proposed deal. The rest of it, as I understand it, is SJSE wanting the Fog Devils to pay for all the costs of Mile One for the entire year. This way SJSE doesn't have to activly go out and find tennants like concerts, curling, etc. The Fog Devils will be tennants of Mile One for 35 days out of the year, plus practice dates... why should they be responsible for the building making profits the rest of the year? The answer they shouldn't... not only is this sour grapes, it's the city trying to recoup costs without putting forth an effort to secure other tennants.

The City is winning the PR battle because whenever they say "subsidy to a hockey team", the public thinks they are battling for the tax payers. When in reality they are being lazy...

My prediction, though I hope I'm wrong, is that there will not be a deal... and there may never be one. If there isn't a deal, look for SJSE to go out and look for a AHL or ECHL team to fill Mile One. Dobbin's team will likely end up in Corner Brook permanetly in a couple of years.

perfect post! :handclap: couldn't agree more!

coombs, o'keefe, wells, and the rest of the misfits down there never miss a chance to say "we will not subsidize hockey anymore". and people are buying it hook, line, and sinker.

in fact, they want dobbin to subsidize sjse's incompetance and laziness.

i still think it will get done, some time next week. the qmjhl is flexible on this date, at least giving another week or so if any progress is being made. they badly want to be in st.john's.

I thought what was being said was that they would not subsidize hockey any more
than what they already were NOT anymore period.

In regards to "if corporate suites is the only thing" - according to other hockey boards that in itself is a big deal and generates alot of revenue.

In reading one article, Dobbin was willing to pay for game nights and not practice time. Even in the minor hockey associations, you pay for ice time. That covers the running of the building for that 1 - 2 hours. Why should Dobbin feel that he doesn't have to pay for practice times?

Alright, so they have 35 games - I guess then, all merchandise, any Fog Devils logos, etc. will only be displayed those 35 nights or is that another freebie they want. Have their signs displayed year round?

If you like one group over another, it is amazing the slant that you can put toward that group in their favour.

Dobbin has to realize that there is more to this hockey than GAME NIGHT

In reading one article, Dobbin was willing to pay for game nights and not practice time. Even in the minor hockey associations, you pay for ice time. That covers the running of the building for that 1 - 2 hours. Why should Dobbin feel that he doesn't have to pay for practice times?

i never saw that anywhere. where was this? i don't believe for a second that dobbin doesn't think he should pay for practice time.

If you like one group over another, it is amazing the slant that you can put toward that group in their favour.

that is true. but i tend to side with the group who wants to bring in an independent third party to see whose numbers are right and whose are wrong. the side that is refusing must either have something to hide, or they just don't have much will to get a deal done.

Dobbin has to realize that there is more to this hockey than GAME NIGHT

Agreed, but the city needs to realize that the team shouldn't compensate the city because the building is empty most nights. SJSE is responsible for having the building make money, and it appears they are trying to hoist that burden onto Dobbin.

If you like one group over another, it is amazing the slant that you can put toward that group in their favour.

coombs, o'keefe, wells, and the rest of the misfits down there never miss a chance to say "we will not subsidize hockey anymore". and people are buying it hook, line, and sinker.

Sad thing is that if SJSE won the bid, by their definition they'd be "subsidizing" a hockey team, just like they are now. The city thinks that the main tennant, in this case a hockey team, needs to fund the building year round... that's impossible.

My prediction, though I hope I'm wrong, is that there will not be a deal... and there may never be one. If there isn't a deal, look for SJSE to go out and look for a AHL or ECHL team to fill Mile One. Dobbin's team will likely end up in Corner Brook permanetly in a couple of years.

The Q league president said that the team was awarded to Dobbin based on the fact that it would play in St. John's and Mile One and that they don't have any more cities in mind. He said that if the deal is not reached by midnight tonight that there will be no hockey for the Fog Devils in 2005-06--ANYWHERE

The Q league president said that the team was awarded to Dobbin based on the fact that it would play in St. John's and Mile One and that they don't have any more cities in mind. He said that if the deal is not reached by midnight tonight that there will be no hockey for the Fog Devils in 2005-06--ANYWHERE

I know, I didn't say they would be playing somewhere else in 2005-06. What I said was that if there is no deal, then I'd expect SJSE to go look for another AHL or ECHL team to begin play in 2006-07 at Mile One. If that happens, the Q will probably not take Dobbin's franchise back, instead more than likely they'd move the team to Corner Brook (which eventually will get a team either way) in a couple of years, say 2006-07 at the earliest.

SJSE after this season should be disbanded as they will no longer have any use for the City of St. John’s.

$1.7 million(more then the other Atlantic teams leases combined) with the average team expenses being $1.8-$2.1 million means a break even point for Dobbin would be $3.5 million(without air travel included)

The city’s ignorance is baffling, they know any team from St. John’s has to pay a $175,000 air travel subsidy, add in the teams own air travel and you get over $600,000 in additional expenses that no other Q team has to deal with.

$1.7(lease) + $1.8(lowest average team expense) + $600,000 for air travel expenses would total $4.1 million.

Dobbin said expenses would total $3.2 million under his lease agreement

Dobbin did say that he was not going to pay for practice in an article in the Telegram(but at $10,000/ game why should he have to?)

We here about all of the great job the SJSE has been in running the Baby Leafs, yet the council fails to mention that to date the SJSE has cost the taxpayers a $5 million deficit.

Keith Coombs keeps saying that Mile One is a $50 million dollar faculty that the taxpayers of St. John’s paid(only 32% true as the city only paid $16 million and the province and the federal government paid the other $34 million)

5,000 fans/game were the city’s profit margin and their ticket prices would average $14(Dobbin said the tickets would average $10-12)

I know, I didn't say they would be playing somewhere else in 2005-06. What I said was that if there is no deal, then I'd expect SJSE to go look for another AHL or ECHL team to begin play in 2006-07 at Mile One. If that happens, the Q will probably not take Dobbin's franchise back, instead more than likely they'd move the team to Corner Brook (which eventually will get a team either way) in a couple of years, say 2006-07 at the earliest.

Based on the current negotiations do you think any other league would be stupid enough to deal with the City of St. John’s?

Not to mention that any league trying to interfere with another’s business(Q) could face legal action. Nor do fans want another crappy AHL team or ECHL team.

Q commish has already said the Corner Brook is not an option

Dobbin said this will be an election issue if his team is forced to sit out an entire season(with the selling of Memorial Stadium to Dominion the 6 councilors that voted in favour of that will have a hard enough time getting re-elected)