WJC Gold Medal GDT: Canada vs. Russia

It's nice that after 7 years of being beaten up on by everyone from Russia to Khazakstan to USA, Canada finally gets one, but what a horrible tournament this was. Not a single great game involving Canada. How dissapointing is it that in the year that Canada has put out its best squad in 10 years, every other world power put out either one of, or their worst.

Frankly, I don't see much to celebrate here.]

Pitiful. Really

Congrats to all Canadians (expet me :D)

Great performeance, you did not steal it, you truelly deserved this medal and this perfect record...Huraaaaaaay to Canada!!
Thank you to all the Russian fans who have congratulated us Canadians. Although I didn't like what the Russian players did to the Americans, it was a mistake and I'm sure they have learned something out of it. I have no doubt that when they'll be in the NHL, they'll be very entertaining players like Kovalchuk is. I used to dislike Kovy but I love him now. Better luck next time.

.

NHL bruisers won't just nail him with clean bodychecks either.


Sadly true.

this is taunting-

:razz:

...And that was basically what they did by celebrating those empty net goals like they were overtime winners.

I actually had a problem with the officiating at this tournament ...lack of Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties.

Care to back that up with anything? I'm all ears. Was it the kissing of his crest, or showing the nameplate to the American fans that was directed at the American bench/players.

I never saw Ovechkin kiss the crest. What I did see, though, is him skate by the U.S. bench and shake the crest at the American players. The first thing is patriotic. The second is taunting. If you can't see that, well...

I missed this while reading this thread when the game was going on, but is it true that one of the Canadian players taunted the Russians by tugging on his jersey in the direction of the Russian bench after a goal?

I believe this was Anthony Stewart celebrating his goal. He was tugging on his jersey, but I'm pretty sure he was doing it in front of the Canadian bench, and not towards the Russian bench.

I could be wrong though. :D

Ok so far. 3 things

1. I take back any doubts I ever had about Phaneuf. He is a fricking titan out there. 3 minutes killing penalties over 1 double minor??? You have got to be kidding me! NO ONE can do those numbers. I would consider dark and evil acts if it meant the Oilers could magic up a guy like him.

2. Carter. Carter, Carter, Carter. I hoestly believe we are sseeing the emergence of a new Thornton/Allison. With better skating. A tremendous player

3. Crosby. Did you see the look in his eyes when Crosby knocked Ovechkin offside ? I haven't see that kind of look since Mess in his earlier days. That look of absolute determination This kid can bring himself to this level emotionally. Mess's intensity with an almost Gretzky like skill set? Simply frightening.

Please note I am not saying Crosby will be better then either of them. But he has HOF potential.
YOU HAD DOUBTS ABOUT PHANEUF! :eek:
Pretty well all of Team Canada played great but the 3 you mentioned along with
Bergeron stood out.Crosby wasn't given as big a role (or icetime as the others)
but he played his role perfectly.Glass was really never called upon but looked like
he was up to the task on rare occassions(5 on 3).Sutter has to be given kudos too,
a well coached team.

If I'm a pro scout, I would question whether or not he would do it for my team. Ovechkin was hell bent on beating Canada. All the taunting he did to the Americans was all for nothing if he lets a seemingly minor injury keep him out of a championship game.

I know you see this tournament as nothing but a scouting mission, but the players don't see it that way. At least in Canada, kids dream about winning the World Juniors.




Ovechkin had better get used to it if he doesn't change his attitude towards his opponents. NHL bruisers won't just nail him with clean bodychecks either.

i feel bad for ao once pepole think they can take you off your game by hammering you they will do it all the more! till you prove otherwise. or you'll have to carry a goon with you every game. :)
he's going to have a ruff time when he satrts to play in the nhl.

Just relax, it's only hockey. Stop OVERanalyzing and just enjoy the thrills and drama that this great sport has to offer.
Peace.

Life is made of peaks and valleys, and hockey is no exception.This is a peak time, let's hope that we don't get down on our country the next time we are in a valley. :teach:

Great comment. Not only for Hockey Canada, International Hockey, NHL or any hockey, but for a fan of any sport. I hate people who suit up for "their" team when "their" team are winning and instant ditch when "their" team don't win. It's usually the people who suit up for their team (when they're winning) that are cocky and make the core fan base look bad.

But of all the players you mentioned, only 1 was a 1st overall pick. Hell, we still hear about Daigle.

I cant think of 1 specific Barnaby antic (I just know he's a doofus) and forgot about Ribeiro (he's not a big enough name). But most will remember Bertuzzi's incident and Sundin throwing the stick and Alfie pretending to. Superstar's incidents stick in peoples brains. Hell, we even heard of Federov's soap opera with Anna K.

Time will tell I guess.

Daigle is mentioned becasue of the hype/bust fatcor....thats the only reason....and IMO he isnt a true bust....he at least plays and has put up decent numbers....just didnt live up to the hype/contract

Off the top of my head I remember Barnaby taunting the Caps bench in the playoffs.....called on it by Ron Wilson he did it again the next game, but in a different way....and if you listen to people here..if anyone ever did that in the NHL they would be beaten to a pulp and taken out back and then executed....but no north american player would ever do that sort of thing

It's been all over the press here - print and screen. Not to mention word of mouth. Here's one of a dozen mentions:
http://tsn.ca/world_jrs/news_Story.asp?ID=109881

It was in the globe, the National, Slam and other locals too.

Just because no one cares in the the states doesn't mean no one else does.

I already posted that link...lets see the dozens?

and why does Malkin get a free ride....he is the one who taunted the bench

I'm very surprised to hear that... :amazed: . I had number of friends who came down to Toronto for WC. We were walking from their hotel (Harbour ..)to ACC, and they were wearing russian jerseys. But to make more fun they were screaming their lungs out with "GO RUSSIA!! " GO FOR THE GOLD!! ". And guess what: nobody not just said a word to them, but people, wearing canadian jerseys were smiling and looked very friendly. And this took place BEFORE the game CAN-RUS. At ACC ther was a huge amount of russian fans, wearing russian jerseys and waving russian flags and to be honest, they were not at their best behavoir, but again: nobody said anything insulting to them or even objected ...so, that's why I'm surprised at your story.. :dunno:

Yeah, I also was treated nicely during most of the other games at the ACC (I had a ticket package for all the five games). I suppose it was a combination of things after the final: people were definitely more drunk and couldn'n restrain themselves as they normally do. I was alone, so that makes for an easy target. I also didn't sulk or despair, but was proud and held my head high...maybe that irritated some of them.

Not that I'm trying to make your story seem negligible, but I'm a Sens fan in Toronto. I've had worse ... beer, taunting, gestures, road rage ... you just shouldn't go against the grain in Toronto, hockey-wise, if you don't want to be ostracized.

Well, parts of it were exactly like that. i just didn't want to rub the details to people's faces here.

what i don't understand is why ao was named the top forward by the iihf when malkin out played him in 4 out of 6 games? and thats just on the russian team . [i guss you cant count the last game ao was hurt] so 3 out of 5 :dunno:

what i don't understand is why ao was named the top forward by the iihf when malkin out played him in 4 games to 2? and thats just on the russian team .

I take it thats just your opinion......Malkin played great for sure. I am glad I finally got to see him.....both have bright futures.....but not sure where this 4-2 thing comes from. I only saw the games on ESPN....but going by the numbers Ovechkin out pointed, out goaled, and was on the ice for only 1 goal against the entire tourny...as opposed to 6 for Malkin. I dont want to get into a who is better....and the whole +/- thing...but Ovechkin had a great tournament, whats so hard to understand about that?

what i don't understand is why ao was named the top forward by the iihf when malkin out played him in 4 out of 6 games?

What I don't understand is how a forward, Bergeron, could win the MVP but not be named top forward as well.

What I don't understand is how a forward, Bergeron, could win the MVP but not be named top forward as well.

good forward on an great team vs great forward on a good team...

good forward on an great team vs great forward on a good team...

Still don't get it. If he was the best player in the tournament, surely he was the best forward as well.

Still don't get it. If he was the best player in the tournament, surely he was the best forward as well.
MVP is different than best.

I think Phaneuf played the best tournament

A truly dominating performance by Canada from the first exhibition game right up to the final whistle. For once, this team lived up to all of the pre-tourney hype that went on, especially the glory that TSN was already bestowing on this team before the first puck had even been dropped. Kudos to the other teams and especially Russia. They were a worthy gold medal opponent, but the depth, skill, size, speed and most importantly, the composure, of Team Canada came through in the end.

To that end, Hockey Canada made a smart move bringing in Coach Sutter and his staff. It is not a coincidence that the same success happened at the mens game when they starting bringing in guys like Gretzky and Lowe and company. Sometimes the most important moves happen in how you plan for an event, select your staff, select your team, and prepare your players for the event. But you just cannot take away anything from the talent of this team....it was a treat to watch.

As for taunting, well, even though those players out there are playing in NHL sized bodies and look like the real thing...they are still between the ages of 16 to 19. Now, it's been a while since I was in that age group, but I remember doing a little hot dogging, taunting, name calling, acting out myself at that age. These kids will grow up and mature, but this is a prime time stage and a massive spotlight for them and there is tons of pressure. Some can handle it, but others react in different ways. The nice thing is that the future of hockey is great, because this was a showcase of so many good, young promising players from all across North America and Europe. The taunting and immaturity likely will disappear, but the raw talent will not go away.

And that, my friends, is great news for all us passionate and loyal hockey fans.

I take it thats just your opinion......Malkin played great for sure. I am glad I finally got to see him.....both have bright futures.....but not sure where this 4-2 thing comes from. I only saw the games on ESPN....but going by the numbers Ovechkin out pointed, out goaled, and was on the ice for only 1 goal against the entire tourny...as opposed to 6 for Malkin. I dont want to get into a who is better....and the whole +/- thing...but Ovechkin had a great tournament, whats so hard to understand about that?
game 1 us vs rus ao 2 pts em 1 pts ao played better ao1
game 2 cze vs rus ao1 pts em 3pts em played better em1
game 3 blr vs rus em & ao both get 2 pts em had more hits, made more plays em2
game 4sui vs rus ao 3pts em ipt ao played better ao2
game 5us vs rus ao 3pts em 3pts em again more hits, more nice passes, better back checking em3
game 6 us vsrus ao 0, em o em played the whole game and from al acconts played well em4
i also did not see all the games so i could easley be wrong but the above is my best understanding of what happend if anyone else saw i def. pleas say so. i am not saying malkin should be named the top forward i just cant see why ao was.

:bow: Congratulations team Canada, finally a coach who would not let the boys sit back and it paid off with one dominating performance after another. Alot of people predicted Canada would not win, they only looked good due to a weaker pool. They proved beyond a doubt that this year they are far superior to any of the other teams in this tournament. it would not have mattered who they faced in the final the result would have been the same,one sided domination simply put men playing with boys.You know what firebear, that is a very good point. Sutter was not gonna let these guys sitback. Not that there was much fear of that anyway, as there were 12 returnees and all of them wanted to erase that bad taste left in their mouths from a year ago.

The part I have a hard time with are these posters who can't admit that Canada deserved it. They had by far the best team on paper and backed it up and then some on the ice. I have always said it is okay to talk trash, but if you're team ends up losing, then take it like a man, don't make up stories to help you sleep at night.

Leading up to this game I read a lot of posts both for Canada and those for Russia aswell. Some were well thought out, touching on what one team would have to do to beat the other, and others were MY TEAM IS GOING TO CRUSH YOU! I understand both, but if you were talking smack for Russia then any way you cut it you have to eat crow.

The big thing was "Oh but Canada still hasn't a played a worthy opponent" Well Russia was the most worthy because they made it to the final, and got absolutely SMACKED!. I won't deny that they are a dynamic bunch and a treat to watch. But Canada had GOLD on their minds and they were gonna stop at nothing to get it.

These same people that claimed Canada was all hype because every team they played were lesser lights, instead of giving Canada the respect they deserve, some are choosing to say that it is so unfortunate that in a year when Canada had their best team, every other team had nothing worth sending.

Amazing how in less then 24 hours, Russia went from the greatest team in the world, to a team that really didn't have all that much...was it the 6-1 drubbing, or the physical ass kicking they took.

My point is simple, the way to beat the Russians was in theory very easy, and every team in this tournament knew it. The problem was that only Canada could carry out that tall order, of shutting down AO and Malkin, taking the body at every opportunity, and taking away time and space on the ice, so that the Russians had no time to work their magic.

Cudos to Team Canada, and the coaching staff, who put together one hell of a team, that will be remembered for its dominance for many years to come.

These same people that claimed Canada was all hype because every team they played were lesser lights, instead of giving Canada the respect they deserve, some are choosing to say that it is so unfortunate that in a year when Canada had their best team, every other team had nothing worth sending.

Amazing how in less then 24 hours, Russia went from the greatest team in the world, to a team that really didn't have all that much...was it the 6-1 drubbing, or the physical ass kicking they took.

My point is simple, the way to beat the Russians was in theory very easy, and every team in this tournament knew it. The problem was that only Canada could carry out that tall order, of shutting down AO and Malkin, taking the body at every opportunity, and taking away time and space on the ice, so that the Russians had no time to work their magic.

Cudos to Team Canada, and the coaching staff, who put together one hell of a team, that will be remembered for its dominance for many years to come.

Congrats to Team Canada. They were clearly the best team this year and deserved to win. To me, this team looks like the strongest that Canada has ever fielded. However, it is not taking away from the team when people state simple facts like many other teams fielding one of their weakest teams in recent years. That was the truth. I don't understand what's your problem with that.

About the final game: if the russian goalies would have played a decent game, it would have been a much tighter, enjoyable game instead of a blowout. They sucked in a few easy goals, and the team couldn't recover. Very few teams can, when they suddenly realize they can't trust their goalies. Remember, first period was pretty even still, with Canada dominating slightly but not rolling over the Russians.

And to Firebear: I really didn't see very many people predicting that Canada woudn't win. About 90 % of people from all nations had Canada winning, including myself.

Canada has the biggest showboating players ever who like to taunt big time. The biggest trash-talkers as well. Starting with Claude Lemeux and finishing with Theo Fluery, who would slide head first all over the ice and then crying after trading from Calgary with cocaine tears. Phill Esposito was such a class, given the cut throat signs to the Russian players, middle fingers to the crowd, swining sticks at the referees. Canadian players behaved so bad, the impression of them lived for years in Russia and is still there. Russians still think, Canadians are just clasless people. Showing middle fingers to the crowd??!! How low can you go!!!

Taunting is highly respected in NHL, GM are always trying to get the biggest Canadian arsehole for playoffs. So give Russians a break. You live by sword and you die by the sword. Canadian players are the most classless players ever. That's the fact.Do you speak for all the Russian federation SENATOR? Your comments are indeed yours, but if that's what you really think, then I am sure I speak for most of the posters here, when I say keep your comments to yourself. How old are you? Do you even remember the '72 Summit series? It was a very different time then for hockey. That should in no way be compared to todays taunting and showboating. The Canadian players and staff were fearing for their lives. There were Soviet militia with machine guns at all the exits, can you even fathom that? Please don't answer that, you will only prove me right about you. How can you sit there and preach about something you cannot even comprehend? That was not about a game, that was about two countries who knew precious little about eachother going at it for 8 grueling games and we, the fans got to tag along for the ride. Canada has long since been revered as a classy nation.

When it comes to Class, you won't have to look any further than Canada, especially on the ice. What you claim as a fact, is nothing more than your pathetic attempt to disrespect a game and a people you obviously don't know much about. You choose to mention two examples, well those examples exist for every country. No one plays this game sqeaky cleam all the time, because it a game where emotions run high and things happen at top speed.

As I reach the end of my rant, I wonder what did I write all of this for? Anyone clueless enough to write what you said and claim it a fact, is far beyond the help of a rational hockey fan, such as me.

To me, this team looks like the strongest that Canada has ever fielded. However, it is not taking away from the team when people state simple facts like many other teams fielding one of their weakest teams in recent years.

My problem with it is simple. Most non-Canadians on these boards weren't saying that. We were told that once Canada got into the crossovers, they would finally meet their match. We were told that the Russians play against men and were thus superior to the Canadians who play against boys. When Canada wins there is always some excuse to denigrate the performance, be it goonism, cheating, home ice, whatever. Now it's weak opponents. Russia had two of the most highly touted prospects to come along in years and we were told how they would manhandle the Canadians and how they were physical specimens who would pound Canada at every turn. Turns out the opposite was true.

The fact is Sweden has sucked at this thing for years, so I don't know how much worse they were this year than when Canada drubbed them 8-2 two years ago with a team nowhere near as good as this years, or a few years ago when Canada practically ran them out of the building even though the Sedins were touted as god-like prodigies. The U.S. has only ever won this thing once, so how much better should they have been this year? They won it last year but have never really been a factor before. Likewise, the Czechs had a good run four or five years ago, but they've pretty much shat the bed since and before that.

Teams as good as Canada was this year -- and it might be the best junior team ever -- make other teams look bad. Hell, they never even trailed for a single minute of this tournament. That's going to make any opponent look worse than they really are.

My problem with it is simple. Most non-Canadians on these boards weren't saying that. We were told that once Canada got into the crossovers, they would finally meet their match. We were told that the Russians play against men and were thus superior to the Canadians who play against boys. When Canada wins there is always some excuse to denigrate the performance, be it goonism, cheating, home ice, whatever. Now it's weak opponents. Russia had two of the most highly touted prospects to come along in years and we were told how they would manhandle the Canadians and how they were physical specimens who would pound Canada at every turn. Turns out the opposite was true.

The fact is Sweden has sucked at this thing for years, so I don't know how much worse they were this year than when Canada drubbed them 8-2 two years ago with a team nowhere near as good as this years, or a few years ago when Canada practically ran them out of the building even though the Sedins were touted as god-like prodigies. The U.S. has only ever won this thing once, so how much better should they have been this year? They won it last year but have never really been a factor before. Likewise, the Czechs had a good run four or five years ago, but they've pretty much shat the bed since and before that.

Teams as good as Canada was this year -- and it might be the best junior team ever -- make other teams look bad. Hell, they never even trailed for a single minute of this tournament. That's going to make any opponent look worse than they really are.

I hear you. Some of the non-Canadians did post pretty strange things here, IMHO. And it's also true what you say about Canada making teams look worse than they are. However, the Finnish team for example was known to be subpar even before the tourney and judging by their performance against other teams than Canada (with the exception of Sweden, which always fires them up) they really were subpar. They had great difficulties scoring on anybody, when not on PP.

Congrats to Team Canada. They were clearly the best team this year and deserved to win. To me, this team looks like the strongest that Canada has ever fielded. However, it is not taking away from the team when people state simple facts like many other teams fielding one of their weakest teams in recent years. That was the truth. I don't understand what's your problem with that.
Thats the kind of comment i have problem with. Canada won because of...All excuses. Its like saying that the U.S won last year because Canada was inexperienced, younger and Fleury. All excuses!! They won and they kicked the crap out of everybody just accept it. One thing ive noticed is when Canada looses Canadians blame their own team instead of findind pathetic excuses and others just come and hate. Thats not our problem if countries cant send out good teams everyear like Canada can. Whats going to be the excuse next year if we win?

game 1 us vs rus ao 2 pts em 1 pts ao played better ao1
game 2 cze vs rus ao1 pts em 3pts em played better em1
game 3 blr vs rus em & ao both get 2 pts em had more hits, made more plays em2
game 4sui vs rus ao 3pts em ipt ao played better ao2
game 5us vs rus ao 3pts em 3pts em again more hits, more nice passes, better back checking em3
game 6 us vsrus ao 0, em o em played the whole game and from al acconts played well em4
i also did not see all the games so i could easley be wrong but the above is my best understanding of what happend if anyone else saw i def. pleas say so. i am not saying malkin should be named the top forward i just cant see why ao was.

I just dont see how you can say either guy played better than the next if you didnt see the game.....and all you are doing is looking at stats really....dont you think its pretty impressive that Ovechkin was only on the ice for 1 even strength goal against the entire tourny ?

and IMO Ovechkin was the best Russian in both games against the US.....by far the first game and by a slimmer margin the 2nd

I hear you. Some of the non-Canadians did post pretty strange things here, IMHO. And it's also true what you say about Canada making teams look worse than they are. However, the Finnish team for example was known to be subpar even before the tourney and judging by their performance against other teams than Canada (with the exception of Sweden, which always fires them up) they really were subpar. They had great difficulties scoring on anybody, when not on PP.

I agree about the Finns but they were very young and it showed. They should be much better next year.

Also, the lockout was a tremendous factor in how good Canada was. Without it we could easily have lost. During the last lockout in '95, Canada averaged six goals a game and went undefeated too. I don't think that's a coincidence. Canada always loses more U20 players to the NHL each year than any other country and would have a lot more than 11 golds if that wasn't the case.

Thats the kind of comment i have problem with. Canada won because of...All excuses. Its like saying that the U.S won last year because Canada was inexperienced, younger and Fleury. All excuses!! They won and they kicked the crap out of everybody just accept it. One thing ive noticed is when Canada looses Canadians blame their own team instead of findind pathetic excuses and others just come and hate. Thats not our problem if countries cant send out good teams everyear like Canada can. Whats going to be the excuse next year if we win?

Where have I said that Finland lost because of any other reason than their own lack of talent? I don't think I have.

Where have I said that Finland lost because of any other reason than their own lack of talent? I didn't think so either.
I know but i just wanted to comment about the "Canada won against some of the weakest year of some countries" rant and it hapened that you talked about it. Nothing against your comment.

I agree about the Finns but they were very young and it showed. They should be much better next year.

Also, the lockout was a tremendous factor in how good Canada was. Without it we could easily have lost. During the last lockout in '95, Canada averaged six goals a game and went undefeated too. I don't think that's a coincidence. Canada always loses more U20 players to the NHL each year than any other country and would have a lot more than 11 golds if that wasn't the case.

Probably true.

I know but i just wanted to comment about the "Canada won against some of the weakest year of some countries" rant and it hapened that you talked about it. Nothing against your comment.

Ok. No hard feelings :)

It's nice that after 7 years of being beaten up on by everyone from Russia to Khazakstan to USA, Canada finally gets one, but what a horrible tournament this was. Not a single great game involving Canada. How dissapointing is it that in the year that Canada has put out its best squad in 10 years, every other world power put out either one of, or their worst.

Frankly, I don't see much to celebrate here.
Of course you don't.Read it and weep my friend.Best team ever at this tournament no question. Time for you to take the silly comments and go away.No need for you here...just an irritation like summer mosquitoes

He has talent, for sure. Will he have a very, very good career? We'll see. I remember Alexandrov, who played with the Red Army in the 70's. Was supposed to surpass the great Kharlamov. Eventually, he couldn't carry his jockstrap.

Talent is one thing; getting hammered regularly in the NHL, during a 82 game schedule, THEN playing in the playoffs for 2 months. That takes more than talent. It takes commitment and intestinal fortitude. That is where we separate the good from the legend. We'll see if this wonder will do the job.

Ovechkin is an incredible individual talent. No question. He needs to pick up the rest, now. He's young. He can learn. Tonight, he learned a valuable lesson: never, ever brag and boast with Canadians. They will make you pay. A humbling lesson.

Man, this kid would have trouble playing in Montreal :lol
All I'm saying is that this is a 19 year old kid who was drafted less than 6 months ago and whose been hyped for about 3 years. He finished 3rd in the tournament in points and had a better +/- then Bergeron who was playing on arguably the most dominant line in the tourney. He has shown little to cause any concern that he's gonna be anything but a good to great player in the NHL. I remember a certain Mr. Kovalchuck who was a little excessive in celebrations himself. Kovalchuck was not only considered arrogant but he was also labelled as a one-dimensional player... which is something that no sane person can consider Ovechkin.

The Canadian one is 11 I believe and the overall one is 16 by Markus Naslund.

Pavel Bure had 27 goals in his WJHC career 89-91

Man, this kid (Ovechkin) would have trouble playing in Montreal


Isnt that where Ribeiro and Kovalev play....yea....those guys sure showed class and sportsmanship this past post season

Isnt that where Ribeiro and Kovalev play....yea....those guys sure showed class and sportsmanship this past post season

Ribeiro was diving around, but what did Kovalev do? Either I missed it, or my memory doesn't serve me. And yes, I am a Canadiens fan, but it doesn't stop me from seeing their negative deeds as well :)

Ribeiro was diving around, but what did Kovalev do? Either I missed it, or my memory doesn't serve me. And yes, I am a Canadiens fan, but it doesn't stop me from seeing their negative deeds as well :)

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure he did something similar.......

let me add I really dont care too much about what either of them did....but this guy said AO would have problems playing for the Habs....thats all

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure he did something similar.......

Can't remember that, which of course doesn't mean it didn't happen. I do remember that horrible slash he got and stopped playing (which I hold against him), letting the other team promptly gain the zone and score. That was bad.

Can't remember that, which of course doesn't mean it didn't happen. I do remember that horrible slash he got and stopped playing (which I hold against him), letting the other team promptly gain the zone and score. That was bad.

Thats what it was......and again, im not really making a statement about either guy. Just the fact they play for the Habs...and I'm willing to bet AO would be welcomed with open arms in Montreal......If I remember Kovalchuk's charcter was questioned, and the Habs offered the farm for the guy on draft day

What I don't understand is how a forward, Bergeron, could win the MVP but not be named top forward as well.

I dont get it either..was just asking the same question

good forward on an great team vs great forward on a good team...

then the hypothetical great forward should be the MVP

I believe this was Anthony Stewart celebrating his goal. He was tugging on his jersey, but I'm pretty sure he was doing it in front of the Canadian bench, and not towards the Russian bench.

I could be wrong though. :D

No, you're right. I have it on tape. He was in front of his own bench and facing his mates, I believe, not the Russians.

3. Crosby. Did you see the look in his eyes when Crosby knocked Ovechkin offside ?


Going back, I think that had to be my favourite play of the entire game. What a backcheck. Totally effective, and got the offside to boot. It may have even been the hit that finished Captain AO.

The only other play that compares with that for me is Colin Fraser's PK in the second - the one that led to Phaneuf's goal. He wins the footrace handily, ties it up with his skates and then - THEN! - when Yemelin lines him up from the blueline (and from behind) and he gets simply nailed into the glass headfirst he's still trying to gather the puck in his hands! Just excellent really. Colin Fraser, Unsung hero. :bow:

I just dont see how you can say either guy played better than the next if you didnt see the game.....and all you are doing is looking at stats really....dont you think its pretty impressive that Ovechkin was only on the ice for 1 even strength goal against the entire tourny ?

and IMO Ovechkin was the best Russian in both games against the US.....by far the first game and by a slimmer margin the 2nd i saw the 2 game malkin clearly was the better player! unles ao is scoreing his play suffers some. little backchecking few hits ect. i don't remember ao cleaning anybodys clock like em did

All I'm saying is that this is a 19 year old kid who was drafted less than 6 months ago and whose been hyped for about 3 years. He finished 3rd in the tournament in points and had a better +/- then Bergeron who was playing on arguably the most dominant line in the tourney.

I'm pretty sure +6 is better than +5 :dunno:

i saw the 2 game malkin clearly was the better player! unles ao is scoreing his play suffers some. little backchecking few hits ect. i don't remember ao cleaning anybodys clock like em did

Well...we all have our opinions. No sense in arguing about it...I still say its pretty silly to have an opinion on who "played" better in the games you didnt actually see....fact is....Ovechkin was named best forward and on the all-tourny team...and Malkin was not. The people that came up with that actually saw the games

Congrats to Team Canada. They were clearly the best team this year and deserved to win. To me, this team looks like the strongest that Canada has ever fielded. However, it is not taking away from the team when people state simple facts like many other teams fielding one of their weakest teams in recent years. That was the truth. I don't understand what's your problem with that.

About the final game: if the russian goalies would have played a decent game, it would have been a much tighter, enjoyable game instead of a blowout. They sucked in a few easy goals, and the team couldn't recover. Very few teams can, when they suddenly realize they can't trust their goalies. Remember, first period was pretty even still, with Canada dominating slightly but not rolling over the Russians.

And to Firebear: I really didn't see very many people predicting that Canada woudn't win. About 90 % of people from all nations had Canada winning, including myself.
I am simply saying that using that weak team scenario is a bit of a cop out. Was Russia a strong team? Yes!

As far as the goalie situation goes, you never know what will happen in a short tourney. You can blame the goalies all you want, but if you watched that game, you would have to concede that the Russians were completely frustrated, and that is how Canada played them.

The way the Canadians were playing on both sides of the puck, it wouldn't have mattered if you had Khabibulin instead of Khudobin!

My problem with it is simple. Most non-Canadians on these boards weren't saying that. We were told that once Canada got into the crossovers, they would finally meet their match. We were told that the Russians play against men and were thus superior to the Canadians who play against boys. When Canada wins there is always some excuse to denigrate the performance, be it goonism, cheating, home ice, whatever. Now it's weak opponents. Russia had two of the most highly touted prospects to come along in years and we were told how they would manhandle the Canadians and how they were physical specimens who would pound Canada at every turn. Turns out the opposite was true.

The fact is Sweden has sucked at this thing for years, so I don't know how much worse they were this year than when Canada drubbed them 8-2 two years ago with a team nowhere near as good as this years, or a few years ago when Canada practically ran them out of the building even though the Sedins were touted as god-like prodigies. The U.S. has only ever won this thing once, so how much better should they have been this year? They won it last year but have never really been a factor before. Likewise, the Czechs had a good run four or five years ago, but they've pretty much shat the bed since and before that.

Teams as good as Canada was this year -- and it might be the best junior team ever -- make other teams look bad. Hell, they never even trailed for a single minute of this tournament. That's going to make any opponent look worse than they really are.
Macman, you have said it perfectly. I have never been in more agreement with anyone on these boards more than I am with you at this very moment. That was a very well written post and it hit hard and it completely encompassed all of my thoughts and frustrations about the way Canada gets no respect. What that team was able to do over the last 11 days was the stuff of legends, and it will be a benchmark for excellence at this tourney for all countries for many years to come.

I am simply saying that using that weak team scenario is a bit of a cop out. Was Russia a strong team? Yes!

As far as the goalie situation goes, you never know what will happen in a short tourney. You can blame the goalies all you want, but if you watched that game, you would have to concede that the Russians were completely frustrated, and that is how Canada played them.

The way the Canadians were playing on both sides of the puck, it wouldn't have mattered if you had Khabibulin instead of Khudobin!

You have a point, but I still think that the goalies made a difference. Seems like the only thing we really disagree about is the goalie thing. Not bad. We have different views and let's leave it at that.

I am simply saying that using that weak team scenario is a bit of a cop out. Was Russia a strong team? Yes!

As far as the goalie situation goes, you never know what will happen in a short tourney. You can blame the goalies all you want, but if you watched that game, you would have to concede that the Russians were completely frustrated, and that is how Canada played them.

The way the Canadians were playing on both sides of the puck, it wouldn't have mattered if you had Khabibulin instead of Khudobin!

Khabibulin could have the Mighty Ducks in front of him (the movie team) and still probably shut out a squad from the WJCs. Some people here really love to inflate their junior heroes at the expense of true NHL stars.

Just relax, it's only hockey. Stop OVERanalyzing and just enjoy the thrills and drama that this great sport has to offer.
Peace.


amen brother!!

:yo:

Khabibulin could have the Mighty Ducks in front of him (the movie team) and still probably shut out a squad from the WJCs. Some people here really love to inflate their junior heroes at the expense of true NHL stars.If you watched the way Canada dominated this entire tournament and specifically the Russians in the final, then you would realize that I am not inflating anything. My point in mentioning Khabibulan was meant to be taken toungue in cheek, but I guess that was lost on you huh?

Besides where do you get off dissing the Mighty Ducks (the movie team)? Now who's inflating things?

You have a point, but I still think that the goalies made a difference. Seems like the only thing we really disagree about is the goalie thing. Not bad. We have different views and let's leave it at that.
I don't mind leaving it at that, we are free to disagree. However, if there was a team that had question marks leading up to this tourney, it would have to be Canada.

Glass had no prior international experience, and was not tested much shot-wise during the tourney. Even knowing how physical Canada had to be to try and shut down AO and Malkin, I never expected that Glass would make the saves early on when Canada was in serious penalty trouble. The game changed right there. I agree that Khudobin did not play very well, but Kuznetsov was really no better, and the fact that Russia couldn't get anything going offensively is what really made the difference.

Did you honestly think that Khudobin would play as good as Schwarz did for the Czechs in the semis? Even Ovechkin prior to the final was quoted as saying that Canada had a great team but their goaltending was suspect...Point is nobody expected Glass to steal a game, he did what he had to do, and was there when they needed him to be.

Besides where do you get off dissing the Mighty Ducks (the movie team)? Now who's inflating things?

I'm talking about the actual team from the Mighty Ducks movie, not the NHL team. Goldberg and company.

Pitiful. Really

:shakehead

Oh yeah, pitfull indeed.

Jeff O'Neils comments today in The Star: "We (95 team) faced stiff competition...they faced stiffs".

But pshh, what would Jeff O'neil know, right.

Going back, I think that had to be my favourite play of the entire game. What a backcheck. Totally effective, and got the offside to boot. It may have even been the hit that finished Captain AO.



Are you sure about that? Because according to Pierre Mccheerleader, it was Ovechkin who was setting the pick, and was lucky not to get an interference penalty.

:shakehead

Oh yeah, pitfull indeed.

Jeff O'Neils comments today in The Star: "We (95 team) faced stiff competition...they faced stiffs".

But pshh, what would Jeff O'neil know, right.
Yeah, exactly what would he know about the quality of this years competition?
You are a sad ,pitiful fellow.

I'm pretty sure +6 is better than +5 :dunno:
Yeah, I know that... Your point?
http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournaments_05/output/w20/hydra.iihf.com/data/iihf/output/xml/1000000020/IHM1000000020Z12_85G_2_0.html

Yeah, I know that... Your point?
http://www.iihf.com/Hydra/Tournaments_05/output/w20/hydra.iihf.com/data/iihf/output/xml/1000000020/IHM1000000020Z12_85G_2_0.html

Sorry, I thought the numbers were opposite. I was dumb enough to use the US official site and they had their numbers incorrect on another matter earlier, so I should've doublechecked.
http://www.usahockey.com/2005wjc/tournament_player/main/05wjc/canada/37/can///
http://www.usahockey.com/2005wjc/tournament_player/main/05wjc/russia/8/rus//

:shakehead

Oh yeah, pitfull indeed.

Jeff O'Neils comments today in The Star: "We (95 team) faced stiff competition...they faced stiffs".

But pshh, what would Jeff O'neil know, right.
Whenever Jeff opens his mouth something idiotic is soon to follow. Time for Jeff to use his time off to finish highschool.

Totally agreed. If you don't think AO taunted the US team, imagine if you were one of the players sitting on the American bench. I for one would take EXTREME offense to any of the crap Ovechkin and Malkin pulled after their amazing empty-netters. If you don't see this, obviously there's no point in trying to convince you.
i played all my life and im american - im not offended. it was typical stuff for a tourney these days, and im sure we deserved it.

Are you sure about that? Because according to Pierre Mccheerleader, it was Ovechkin who was setting the pick, and was lucky not to get an interference penalty.
No, that was a different play. On the one I'm talking about Ovechkin is the puck carrier. It's at the 11 minute mark of the first.

Ovechkin sets that pick on Bergeron at the 19 minute mark of the first while the Russians were on the pp, right after Bergeron and he had collided in the Russian end.

:shakehead

Oh yeah, pitfull indeed.

Jeff O'Neils comments today in The Star: "We (95 team) faced stiff competition...they faced stiffs".

But pshh, what would Jeff O'neil know, right.

TSN would disagree with O'Neill's comments.

"With so much talent on hand, Canada cruised to a perfect 7-0-0 record, blitzing opponents by scoring at least four goals in every game. It helped that the rest of the field was fairly weak in 1995, as none of the European teams would come close to matching Canada's offensive prowess."

http://www.tsn.ca/World_jrs/feature.asp?fid=1045

:shakehead

Oh yeah, pitfull indeed.

Jeff O'Neils comments today in The Star: "We (95 team) faced stiff competition...they faced stiffs".

But pshh, what would Jeff O'neil know, right.

Funny how you ignored this from the same article:

"There are a lot of similarities, but the bottom line is that they put it together a lot better than we did," said Jason Botterill, also a member of the '95 team. "I've been listening on the radio and watching TV about how there's a debate about whether this is the greatest team ever and I don't think there's much debate with the way they performed over the last week and a half. I think they definitely took that mantle from us."

I'm talking about the actual team from the Mighty Ducks movie, not the NHL team. Goldberg and company.
YEAH, I get it Einstein! Did you happen to miss my "the movie team" in brackets?
Your comment makes no sense. How am I wrong to use Khabibulin in the context of Canada would have tore a new one to any goalie they faced, and yet you are right in thinking Khabibulin or any NHL goalie, could have beat any WJC team with a group of kids infront of them? This has to be the most idiotic post I have ever responded to.

Khabibulin could have the Mighty Ducks in front of him (the movie team) and still probably shut out a squad from the WJCs. Some people here really love to inflate their junior heroes at the expense of true NHL stars.

:shakehead :shakehead

Give your head a shake. I don't care if you had the best goalie EVER, in his PRIME. If Khabby played against Canada with the Mighty Duck movie team in front of him :lol they would get killed! What goalie do you know of that can stand a barrage of shots the whole game? While some people may be overrating the team by saying they could take on many NHL teams, you definitly underrate the team with this load of :eek:

:shakehead :shakehead

Give your head a shake. I don't care if you had the best goalie EVER, in his PRIME. If Khabby played against Canada with the Mighty Duck movie team in front of him :lol they would get killed! What goalie do you know of that can stand a barrage of shots the whole game? While some people may be overrating the team by saying they could take on many NHL teams, you definitly underrate the team with this load of :eek:
I think EPSILON has been shaking his head too much, and possibly banging it against walls, that might begin to explain his stance on this issue, in which he is...

(1) Completely out to lunch.
and (2) All alone in this debate.

This Canadian team was phenominal, and anyone who chooses to downplay what they did, by way of comparing the poor opposition, or the poor goaltending by its opponents, or whatever, is either insanely jealous, or completely blind!

This Canadian team was phenominal, and anyone who chooses to downplay what they did, by way of comparing the poor opposition, or the poor goaltending by its opponents, or whatever, is either insanely jealous, or completely blind!

Thanks a lot. I didn't mean to downplay anything, but judging by the above response I should have just kept my mouth shut I suppose. Mmm, yummy...now I know how it feels to be an insanely jealous, blind person who likes to downplay stuff. How about adding 'ignorant fool' to the chain of compliments? I kinda like it.

Thanks a lot. I didn't mean to downplay anything, but judging by the above response I should have just kept my mouth shut I suppose. Mmm, yummy...now I know how it feels to be an insanely jealous, blind person who likes to downplay stuff. How about adding 'ignorant fool' to the chain of compliments? I kinda like it.I was directing my tirade at EPSILON, sorry if you feel you got caught in the cross fire. We settled out disagreement...we agree to disagree, right? Besides the "ignorant fool" comment would have been over the top.

I was directing my tirade at EPSILON, sorry if you feel you got caught in the cross fire. We settled out disagreement...we agree to disagree, right? Besides the "ignorant fool" comment would have been over the top.

Ok.

I was directing my tirade at EPSILON, sorry if you feel you got caught in the cross fire. We settled out disagreement...we agree to disagree, right? Besides the "ignorant fool" comment would have been over the top.

The Mighty Ducks thing was a joke exagerration, but the main point still stands. You seem to think this team descended from Mount Olympus and were dipped in the River Styx for good measure. An elite NHL goaltender (Khabibulin, Brodeur, Theodore, etc.) in front of a decent team like Russia's would have little problem beating a team of star junior scorers. You probably think these kids could have beat the 1998 Czechs the way you are carrying on.

Also, you might want try making your point without name-calling and shouting.

Never mind a pro goalie, you put Schwarz in net for the Russians and they likely end the first period up 1-0 and perhaps it's a completely different game.

Never mind a pro goalie, you put Schwarz in net for the Russians and they likely end the first period up 1-0 and perhaps it's a completely different game.

I think Canada would still win with Schwarz in goal for the Russians because the defense did such a good job shutting down Russia's attack, but the final score would have been a lot closer.

Never mind a pro goalie, you put Schwarz in net for the Russians and they likely end the first period up 1-0 and perhaps it's a completely different game.


oh, this is fun. And if the russian goalie didn't stop the americans at the end of the second period it would have been a completely different game if it was 3-3 going into the 3rd.

Never mind a pro goalie, you put Schwarz in net for the Russians and they likely end the first period up 1-0 and perhaps it's a completely different game.
We beat the Czechs who had Schwarz.

oh, this is fun. And if the russian goalie didn't stop the americans at the end of the second period it would have been a completely different game if it was 3-3 going into the 3rd.
WTF are you talking about:dunno:

We beat the Czechs who had Schwarz.The Russians had a better team than the Czechs. The only area where the Czechs were better was goaltending.

I think Canada would still have won, but it more than likely would have been a much more competitive game and I have no doubt the Russians would have been up 1-0 after the first with a guy of Schwarz's calibre.

The Mighty Ducks thing was a joke exagerration, but the main point still stands. You seem to think this team descended from Mount Olympus and were dipped in the River Styx for good measure. An elite NHL goaltender (Khabibulin, Brodeur, Theodore, etc.) in front of a decent team like Russia's would have little problem beating a team of star junior scorers. You probably think these kids could have beat the 1998 Czechs the way you are carrying on.

Also, you might want try making your point without name-calling and shouting.Shouting? I didn't realize HF boards had audio capabilities. But seriously, I never mentioned Mt. Olympus, I simply said this team was incredible, and they cut through this tournament like a hot knife through butter. I have not been the only one on these boards or in the media, that has compared Team Canada to an NHL team. They had the size the speed and the system in place to bring it all together. They never trailed the entire tournament. Even with their so called weak link goaltending. All of these other people are talking about how if this goalie or that goalie would have made that save, the whole game would have been different. Well Glass never looked stellar, but he never had to, and he did make the big save when his team needed it.

I joked about Khabibulin instead of Khudobin would have made little difference, and you went off on a Mighty Ducks movie tangent. So you can see why I became a little irritable. I made a joke that was in some ways atleast conceivable, but when you mentioned any NHL goalie behind a group of 12 year olds made little to no sense to the conversation.

There will be a majority of those on Team Canada, who go on to have great NHL careers, because their games are in many ways NHL ready. Yes, some need experience, but I feel most of the players on that team will be playing in the bigs when hockey decides to start up again.

As far as the '98 Czech team, they were awesome, but you also have the advantage of looking back and seeing how many of them have gone to play in the NHL.

Also, you would have to concede, seeing as it is a fact, that Canada loses more of its U20 junior eligable prospects to the NHL every year. That being said, it stands to reason 2 of the best teams ever assembled at the WJC were the Canadian teams of '95, and '05. Whyyou ask? Because the NHL was then, and is now, in the midst of a labour strike, and that means that players who would otherwise have been playing in the NHL, could now have the honour of representing their country at the WJC.

Phaneuf, Carter, Richards, Bergeron, Getzlaf, Ladd, Coburn, Weber, and Stewart could all have been conceivably playing in some capacity for their NHL teams. At which point, their team would have to release them to join Team Canada. That would have been a completely different tournament, don't you think? Sure it would, but it doesn't seem fair if you're a fan of Canadian hockey and the World Juniors. If you add to that, the fact that Brent Burns and Nathan Horton were also eligible for this team, that is just scary!

These are the type of things that I wish the rest of Canada would look at when things maybe don't go as planned in these international tournaments. Canada comes in 2nd, and the whole country starts pannicking, and every newspaper starts a 12 part series of..."What's wrong with our game?". True, Canada had not won gold at the U20's since '97, but they have won a medal every year since except '98, and the last three years have won Silver. Which, as anyone knows, Gold or Silver is decided in one game, winner takes all, and Canada could just as easily have won 4 Golds in a row.

The Americans who by and large have no clue what hockey really means to this country, have the luxury of sitting back and taking pot shots at why Canadians are so touchy about this game. Well hockey is a global game, and the other countries like the US are getting better at it all the time. I guess in some ways it is a lot like the US and the Basketball or Baseball situation. They owned the game forever, and now other countries have caught up.

This game defines our country and it makes up the very fabric of our nation. That may seem sad to some people, but it really is beyond a sport, it is revered and the people are passionate about it, especially when it is showcased with such awesome power on the world stage. Thanks for the memories Team Canada WJC Champs 2005.

The Americans who by and large have no clue what hockey really means to this country, have the luxury of sitting back and taking pot shots at why Canadians are so touchy about this game. Well hockey is a global game, and the other countries like the US are getting better at it all the time. I guess in some ways it is a lot like the US and the Basketball situation. They owned the game forever, and now other countries have caught up.

This game defines our country and it makes up the very fabric of our nation. That may seem sad to some people, but it really is beyond a sport, it is revered and the people are passionate about it, especially when it is showcased with such awesome power on the world stage.
I would like to see a Baseball series between the Latin baseball players and the U.S.
(Ortiz, Ramirez, Guerrero,Nomar,Vidro, Pedro, Colon among others) They'd loose this series and you'd see the same thing happen similar to us with Hockey.

I would like to see a Baseball series between the Latin baseball players and the U.S.
(Ortiz, Ramirez, Guerrero,Nomar,Vidro, Pedro, Colon among others) They'd loose this series and you'd see the same thing happen similar to us with Hockey.
I agree with what you are saying but the Americans getting rapped up about 1 sport could not happen as the Americans dont really have 1 sport that they identify with like Canada does hockey. I would say football is #1, baseball is #2 & basketball #3 (hence they dont get all agitated when they perform poorly in the Oly's).

An elite NHL goaltender (Khabibulin, Brodeur, Theodore, etc.) in front of a decent team like Russia's would have little problem beating a team of star junior scorers.

What a joke of a comment. I hate when people say something like this - something that will never, ever happen and something that can never be proven one way or another and act like they thier predicted outcome is a sure thing.

And I also hate when people act like a player who has never played at a certain level yet is incapable of ever accomplishing anything at that level. It baffles my mind that a rookie has ever scored a goal in any league. I mean, a junior player coming into the NHL could never EVER score on an NHL goaltender. And how does a rookie goaltender ever stop a shot off the stick of a REAL NHL player? Does that even happen?

These kids (and I'm talking about every player in this tournament, not just the Canadians) are the best in the world at thier age. They are more than capable of beating an NHL goaltender if given a quality scoring opportunity.

What a stupid comment to make.