Russia-USA

Is this the greatest current international rivalry?

Tomorrow's game may change something, but I've noticed that almost every international game between USA and Russia has been heated with lots of rough stuff and hatred flinging around.

It certainly seems that way. Finland vs. Sweden is an age-old rivalry, but the hatred is not there. What about Russia vs. Czech? Although the Soviet Union is no more, some people still remember the Spring of Prague 1968 and make the connection to Russia.

Edit: typo

Maybe times have changed now, but when I lived in Russia 7 years ago, I never came across at least one person who had any kind of dislike towards Canada.. Then I came here though, and it's been totally opposite.. I've come across a lot of hatred and prejudice towards Russia..

So while the rivalry is there, it's more of a one sided rivalry where Canada loves to beat Russia, but there's not much emotion going the other way..

I think Russia-Czech Republic is a much more heated rivalry.. or at least it used to be..

Maybe times have changed now, but when I lived in Russia 7 years ago, I never came across at least one person who had any kind of dislike towards Canada.. Then I came here though, and it's been totally opposite.. I've come across a lot of hatred and prejudice towards Russia..

So while the rivalry is there, it's more of a one sided rivalry where Canada loves to beat Russia, but there's not much emotion going the other way..

I think Russia-Czech Republic is a much more heated rivalry.. or at least it used to be..

All the hate in Canada for Russia stems from fear of being beaten by them because they're so damn good, thats what I would say.

Being a US fan I like beating Canada, but I can live with a loss. To me they are very similar - just more into hockey then baseball like we are.

I'd rather beat Russia though I don't lose sleep over it. I guess I just always think of the 'Miracle on ice.' I just consider Russia players to be bigger, and colder. The US makes me think more of smaller players going on heart :dunno: Probably doesn't pertain as much now, but thats what I think of.

When I think Russian hockey I think of a cold guy like Yashin. When I think America I see Leetch and Richter.

No rivalry in international hockey can compete with Canada-Russia.

What about Russia vs. Czech? Although the Soviet Union is no more, some people still remember the Spring of Prague 1968 and make the connection to Russia.

I think it's a little bit surprising that Finland and Russia don't seem to have very big rivalry in hockey, when unfortunately there's so much anti-russianism in Finland in general. Some people still remember the winter of 1939 and make the connection to Russia. That's a bit unfair IMO.

I think it's fair to say USA vs. Russia is the greatest current international rivalry. There seems to be some profound differences of opinion between these countries of how to play the game, and of course there might be some age old political tensions too.

Being a US fan I like beating Canada, but I can live with a loss. To me they are very similar - just more into hockey then baseball like we are.

I'd rather beat Russia though I don't lose sleep over it. I guess I just always think of the 'Miracle on ice.' I just consider Russia players to be bigger, and colder. The US makes me think more of smaller players going on heart :dunno: Probably doesn't pertain as much now, but thats what I think of.

When I think Russian hockey I think of a cold guy like Yashin. When I think America I see Leetch and Richter.

The thing about Russian hockey is that even their names have a presence. I think it's the continuing Red Army mystique that does it, but when I hear a Russian hockey name, I think of a robot-like warrior who was engineered in a laboratory and trained only to play hockey by sadistic generals. But if I were to summarize the Russians in one word, it would be 'cold'. American hockey instills images of the hard, mean grit of Bill Guerin, and Canadian hockey to me is hard work, hustle, determination, heart.

and Canadian hockey to me is hard work, hustle, determination, heart.

Funny, this is exactly how I would describe Finnish hockey :)

No rivalry in international hockey can compete with Canada-Russia.

Rivalry between Russia and Canada are based on hockey skills...while rivalry between Russia and USA is more of political rivalry.

Rivalry between Russia and Canada are based on hockey skills...while rivalry between Russia and USA is more of political rivalry.
Agreed. I think that US-Russia is the most heated international rivalry in large part because of what happened with the Miracle on Ice and the Cold War.

I think it's a little bit surprising that Finland and Russia don't seem to have very big rivalry in hockey, when unfortunately there's so much anti-russianism in Finland in general. Some people still remember the winter of 1939 and make the connection to Russia. That's a bit unfair IMO.


There is some rivalry, as people are always very happy to see Finland beat Russia. However, the rivalry isn't stronger than that probably because it did not get a chance to really develop in the past as Soviet Union was SO much better than Finland. We got beaten up on a regular basis back then.

I was rooting for russia

Agreed. I think that US-Russia is the most heated international rivalry in large part because of what happened with the Miracle on Ice and the Cold War.

Miracle on ice?? You are kidding me, right? Nobody outside of America cares about that.. not even the Russians, they know it was a big fluke..

I don't think the cold war has much of an impact on a Russia-US hockey rivalry neither.. Might as well say that Russia and Germany are rivals because of the WWII..

Miracle on ice?? You are kidding me, right? Nobody outside of America cares about that.. not even the Russians, they know it was a big fluke..

I don't think the cold war has much of an impact on a Russia-US hockey rivalry neither.. Might as well say that Russia and Germany are rivals because of the WWII..

I think it matters to some people because all through school you read US vs. Soviet Union, Cuban missile crisis, etc... it sticks in your mind even if you don't really hold anything against the Russian people.

Miracle on ice might be a fluke to you guys, but over here it was condiered HUGE. IT was that 'We beat the Soviets at their biggest strength with a bunch of college kids.'

Miracle on ice?? You are kidding me, right? Nobody outside of America cares about that.. not even the Russians, they know it was a big fluke..

Doesn't matter.. Either way the USA beat the best International Team, the best Russian team, EVER.. fair and square. Fluke or no fluke.

Miracle on ice?? You are kidding me, right? Nobody outside of America cares about that.. not even the Russians, they know it was a big fluke..


Of course Russians try to downplay it........

There is some rivalry, as people are always very happy to see Finland beat Russia. However, the rivalry isn't stronger than that probably because it did not get a chance to really develop in the past as Soviet Union was SO much better than Finland. We got beaten up on a regular basis back then.

That's true. I still remember Calgary Olympics in 1988 very clearly, when we got silver by winning Soviet Union. They didn't have any stakes on that game, since they had already secured they gold medals, but it still was something unbelievable. Our Miracle on Ice, if you will. But I don't remember really hating anybody. I just thought it was so amazing that we were able to beat that team with Makaronov, Larionov, Krutov etc. And of course we took those "sure" silver medals away from the Swedes, which was nice. I had that game on tape for a long time and I use to watch it at least once a year, but I lost it somewhere. Dammit!

Miracle on ice?? You are kidding me, right? Nobody outside of America cares about that.. not even the Russians, they know it was a big fluke..

I don't think the cold war has much of an impact on a Russia-US hockey rivalry neither.. Might as well say that Russia and Germany are rivals because of the WWII..


It would take a Russian living in Toronto to downplay such an important athletic achievement. :shakehead Whatever makes you sleep at night I guess........

I remember Darius Kasparaitits saying before the Olympics that he and the players considers the rivalry between Russia and the Czechs to be more significant than the rivalry between Russian and the US.

It would take a Russian living in Toronto to downplay such an important athletic achievement. :shakehead Whatever makes you sleep at night I guess........

It was a great achievement, but then again, it was a long time ago against a nation that is no more. In fact, many Russians prefer to talk about more recent happenings (positive or negative) where Russia is involved, instead of Soviet Union. Some of the downplay might come from that direction.

Canada vs Russia is the only hockey rivalry that matters. They are the two true super powers of hockey. Yes, other nations are starting to produce better top end talent for themselves, but no one matches these two teams year in, year out. In the 28 years that this championship has been played, Russia has 12 Gold, 6 Silver and 5 Bronze, which means they got a medal in 23 of 28 years. Canada has 10 Gold, 6 Silver and 4 Bronze, which means they got a medal in 20 out of 28 championships. Keep in mind that Canada did not send a true national team until the 6th year of this competition and that Canada and Russia were disqualified from the 87 podium and what you have left is complete dominance of this game. The only other team worthy of mention is Czechoslovakia. Had they not split up, they would be comparible.

All the hate in Canada for Russia stems from fear of being beaten by them because they're so damn good, thats what I would say.
We fear losing to anyone because we can't stand it in hockey...it's an admirable trait that has kept us on top.Thankfully we are always able to step back and end up relaxing because we know we are so damn good too.Believe me...the Russians(and you guys) fear losing to us also and both of you know we are always capable(and likely) of doing it.Back at ya

The best hockey international hockey rivalry is Canada vs. Russia, no doubt about it. Started with the 72 series, where it was just war on ice.

The best hockey ever played arguable was between Canada and Russia in 1987.

Canada and Russia also had such a huge fight in the Juniors that they had to turn the lights off to end the fight, and it didn't even work.

The only real battle the Americans had with them was during the Miracle on Ice, and it was just that, a Miracle, had it been an 8 game series like Canada had to do, than it would have been 7-1 for the Russians.

I think it's clear that Russia - Canada is a huge rivalry because they're the two traditional, most-skilled hockey nations...you don't get surprised if either side wins...whereas if you hear that Russia or Canada was beaten by any other country, you get surprised...

USA-Russia may be a more heated rivalry though because you don't see the same overt taunting, bad-blood in a Canada-Russia rivarly...at least not as openly...I'm sure there's plenty of trash talking going on, but it usually isn't as chippy and dirty...at least not in recent memory...

Miracle on ice?? You are kidding me, right? Nobody outside of America cares about that.. not even the Russians, they know it was a big fluke..

I don't think the cold war has much of an impact on a Russia-US hockey rivalry neither.. Might as well say that Russia and Germany are rivals because of the WWII..

Of course it was a fluke... hence the title "Miracle on Ice". It isn't like the U.S. was handed a victory, however. They earned it. You may not care about it, but I'm sure it was an awfully demoralizing loss for all of the Soviet Union at the time.

Also, World War II is 60 years young. The Cold War happened in all of our lifetimes. I'm not arguing that it has a big impact on the two teams or anything, but it is certainly still fresh in many peoples minds.

Canada vs Russia is the only hockey rivalry that matters.

Maybe for Canadians, but sure looks different for everybody else.

the only reason that the Americans care about the Miracle on Ice is because it's one of the only sports they don't dominate in. It's one of the few sports they were "underdogs" in so they overhype it
Canada-Russia is the best rivalry inInternational hockey. After seeing Russia mock the Americans at the end of the game, it's just more fuel for the fire...

the only reason that the Americans care about the Miracle on Ice is because it's one of the only sports they don't dominate in. It's one of the few sports they were "underdogs" in so they overhype it
Canada-Russia is the best rivalry inInternational hockey. After seeing Russia mock the Americans at the end of the game, it's just more fuel for the fire...

I really don't see how it is overhyped, being that it is one of the biggest upsets in sports history.

definitly was overhyped....that movie "Miracle" was done in normal "rah-rah" American style...it was a fluke, nothing more

the Summit Series in 72 is also overhyped

The reason why Russians don't usually have any animosity towards Canadians is that Canada is a fairly small (population of 30 million, I believe) and politically neutral country.. And besides, they are the disgruntled American neighbor, in a way a political ally, really.. But in terms of hockey it just happened that Canadians played it better, and since neither of the North American nations play soccer - hockey was the sport to contest in. While the strictly athletic rivalry is there, there's no political drama that would further substantiate it.

However, Americans now appear to be much better in general and Russia much weaker.. So the rivalry longed for so long is finally emerging, on every level. Just as both nations usually literally owned the Olympic Games in the past and now, something hockey-like is definitely coming about (the disputed game in Salt Lake, this tournament, WC '96, etc..)

As far as Czechs are concerned, most Russians have no beef with them; they're a fairly small country, as well. So for them - as it is probably for the Finns, as well, it's a big deal to beat Russia, especially if you add historical and political perspectives. For Russia - eh. Not that serious. There's more people living in St. Petersburg than in Finland; and more in Moscow than in Finland and Sweden put together, and more in Moscow than in whole Czech Republic. Granted, these nations play hockey much better than all these demographic statistics would indicate - still, the "rivalrous" interest soon wanes for the Russians once they put things in perspective..

definitly was overhyped....that movie "Miracle" was done in normal "rah-rah" American style...it was a fluke, nothing more

the Summit Series in 72 is also overhyped

Why wouldn't it be "rah-rah"? The characters in the movie won. I don't see how it could be done any other way, and it wasn't all that great of a movie. Also, I wouldn't consider it when gauging how it is hyped within the sports world.

There's more people living in St. Petersburg than in Finland; and more in Moscow than in Finland and Sweden put together, and more in Moscow than in whole Czech Republic. Granted, these nations play hockey much better than all these demographic statistics would indicate - still, the "rivalrous" interest soon wanes for the Russians once they put things in perspective..

A good post. However, are you sure about the numbers? Finland has 5.2 million people and Sweden has 8.9 million. Is Moscow really that huge :amazed:

Miracle on ice?? You are kidding me, right? Nobody outside of America cares about that.. not even the Russians, they know it was a big fluke..

I don't think the cold war has much of an impact on a Russia-US hockey rivalry neither.. Might as well say that Russia and Germany are rivals because of the WWII..
You are underestimating the impact of politics. The Cold War was HUGE and it still lingers in many people's mind.

A good post. However, are you sure about the numbers? Finland has 5.2 million people and Sweden has 8.9 million. Is Moscow really that huge :amazed:

Yeah, if you count all the outskirts and suburbs :). Moscow's getting really huge lately, and if you count all the illegal immigrants and unaccounted-for inhabitants without the residency rights (also illegals, in a way, but not necessarily immigrants), it's a huge city :). People are underestimating the metropolitan areas lately, and those are getting bigger and bigger each year...

definitly was overhyped....that movie "Miracle" was done in normal "rah-rah" American style...it was a fluke, nothing more

the Summit Series in 72 is also overhyped

isnt that what the media does? overhype events like these?
its the way it is and the way it will alllways be. I dont remember the 72 summit series i was only 6 years old but i remember the Miracle On Ice in the 80 Olympics. Arguably the greatest upset in sports history. a bunch of college kids who were together what not even a year, beat one of the greatest Russian teams of all time. was it a fluke? Does it really matter? US won the hockey game on one of the biggest stages imaginable the Olympics and won. I dont care if it was a fluke or not.

the only reason that the Americans care about the Miracle on Ice is because it's one of the only sports they don't dominate in. It's one of the few sports they were "underdogs" in so they overhype it
Canada-Russia is the best rivalry inInternational hockey. After seeing Russia mock the Americans at the end of the game, it's just more fuel for the fire...
I think the reason that the Miracle on Ice is deemed so important in American, atleast in my opinion, is not because of it's importance in the sports world, but rather the symbolism that it carried outside of hockey. It symbolized the USA vs. the Soviet Union. Democracy vs. Communism. The Americans were democracy, severely overlooked and the heavy underdog to succeed. The Soviets were communism and were extremely favored. But in the end democracy overcame it's tremendous obstacles to pull out a victory.

Of course many in other countries would overlook it and downplay it. Russians and Soviets aren't going to keep hanging on it and letting it get to them because they lost. Just like no American is going to look back in 20 years and recognize the impact of the USA losing in basketball

The CZE-SVK rivalry will be big or may falter. But its a rivalry for sure. Not the same size as RUS-CAN but still a big one.

The CZE-SVK rivalry will be big or may falter. But its a rivalry for sure. Not the same size as RUS-CAN but still a big one.

I always thought that Slovaks and Czechs got along extremely well and that the separation of the countries was very smooth, leading to a rather weak rivalry. Obviously I was wrong, but could you shed some light on the reasons behind the rivalry? Like a classic game of the past leading to this rivalry?

After the 2000 WC finals, where we lost to them, Reichel said that the Slovaks will never beat the Czechs. After we beat them in the 2003 Bronze Medal game, Vyborny said we celebrating the bronze medal like "clowns". These and other quotes heated up teh rivalry a bit.

I see. The rivalry stems from the level of individual players. The press no doubt helped, as is their habit.