What choices are going to be 2nd guessed by USA Hockey

I was going to post this message before the Russia/US game but decided to wait and see if they lost. If they won nobody would 2nd guess US for wining silver at worst or gold. But because they lost 3 games (especially to Belarus) what decisions will be second guessed?

Heres my thoughts:

Why put Schneider on the team as he has only played 7 games in College hockey when Gerald Coleman has played 2.5 years in OHL and has played amazing all year ( I understand Schneider is next years goalie and 1st roud '04 pick). Coleman I think would have handled being in net against Belarus better than Schnieder and probably outplayed Montoya the way he played.

Next, they should have had Schremp playing on the 2nd line from the beginnig of the tourney.

Kessel should've been on 1st line w/ O'Sullivan

Jack Johnson should have been on the team.

What other questionable moves did they make? Maybe they will have a tryout camp in December, because players grow and change alot from August to December.

Schremp was probably the worst USA player on the ice. I hope to god he never comes back.

eff the Brian Lee fan club...why select a player if you're not going to play him? :shakehead it seems Jack Johnson according to many was the biggest glaring mistake left home *haven't seen him play* I guess we won't see Coach Suckelin either

Eaves > Sandelin!!

Schremp was probably the worst USA player on the ice. I hope to god he never comes back. 4g 1a 5pts.. in a limited role. You are deff a Schremp hater, and not to smart aswell.

Schremp was probably the worst USA player on the ice. I hope to god he never comes back.

With the way some of their defense and goalies played, I highly doubt this.

Eaves > Sandelin!!

Ding Ding!

Schremp was probably the worst USA player on the ice. I hope to god he never comes back.

Worst player who scoredd 4 goals on 30 minutes of total ice time :dunno:

You mad at him scoring so many times in Erie still ? :lol :D

Worst player who scoredd 4 goals on 30 minutes of total ice time :dunno:

You mad at him scoring so many times in Erie still ? :lol :D


Yeah, he was good during that 5 second span when he scored those goals, but the other 59:55 of the hockey game he was useless.

Oh, and come talk to me when London wins a championship.

It was the curse of Robbie Earl.

Yeah, he was good during that 5 second span when he scored those goals, but the other 59:55 of the hockey game he was useless.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...he played mostly on the powerplay, where you arent exactly asked to play two way hockey and he performed when on the power play by scoring goals. He did what he was asked.

Perhaps the choice not to take Robbie Earl could be an issue.

Choosing Lee over Johnson could be an issue.

I think the keys were beyond USA hockeys control.

The US missed Patrick Eaves and Mark Stuart this year. They were standouts on the gold medal team. That's the WJC, though. Players graduate or play in the NHL and the WJC team suffers for it.

The other key was Montoya. He was great last year and mediocre this season. His struggles weren't the fault of USA hockey any more than what happened with Fleury last year was the fault of Hockey Canada. Maybe the US could have a goalie coach next year like team Canada did this season?

Let's also not forget that if Vorobiev gets called for delay of game, the US might have won that game. I would say that the Russians carried play in the game but until that Vorobiev non-call and the subsequent Russian goal, the game was well within reach.

A bronze medal in a year where Canada is abnormally strong and the Russians have two dominant forwards wouldn't be a result to be ashamed of.

What's the defenseman, Liken? He was the worst player on the team.

Schremp was probably the worst USA player on the ice. I hope to god he never comes back.

And you all take the time to try and argue with this brilliant and informative post??? :shakehead I've got a fat seven year old cat who begs at the dinner table, I waste very little time trying to get it to stop, for I realized after a few years that she was simply untrainable.

Perhaps the choice not to take Robbie Earl could be an issue.

Choosing Lee over Johnson could be an issue.

I think the keys were beyond USA hockeys control.

The US missed Patrick Eaves and Mark Stuart this year. They were standouts on the gold medal team. That's the WJC, though. Players graduate or play in the NHL and the WJC team suffers for it.

The other key was Montoya. He was great last year and mediocre this season. His struggles weren't the fault of USA hockey any more than what happened with Fleury last year was the fault of Hockey Canada. Maybe the US could have a goalie coach next year like team Canada did this season?

Let's also not forget that if Vorobiev gets called for delay of game, the US might have won that game. I would say that the Russians carried play in the game but until that Vorobiev non-call and the subsequent Russian goal, the game was well within reach.

A bronze medal in a year where Canada is abnormally strong and the Russians have two dominant forwards wouldn't be a result to be ashamed of.

Agree. Great post Alfie#11 :handclap:

Worst player who scoredd 4 goals on 30 minutes of total ice time :dunno:

You mad at him scoring so many times in Erie still ? :lol :D

:lol: poor little otter fan.

Does US not have any large physical defensemen?

Someone said it in another thread: The USA just could not replace the horses like Eaves but especially on defense Carle, Stuart, Richmon, and Wisniewski.

It also seemed the USA lacked a system or something. They seemed to be all over the ice scrambling a lot.

USA's coaching sucked. Sandelin is absolutely overrated as a coach. If he hadn't been buddies with Dean Blais, he never would have been selected as a replacement.

I dont understand why they didn't put O'sullivan and Schremp on a line together :dunno: they had great chemistry with the Icedogs, somthing team usa was missing. Team usa reminds me of the Rangers, a team full of talent and stars but no chemistry at all.

:lol: poor little otter fan.


And Jealous :cry: :cry: :cry:

4g 1a 5pts.. in a limited role.

So you are impressed with big stats? How many of those points came on the power play? Fact of the matter is that Schremp was a two-way liability and recognized as such coming to the team. A talented forward, but a guy with substandard skating that could be taken advantage of in the defensive zone or during the transition game. His scoring numbers are what buys him any level of respect at all. He can make some very impressive moves in the offensive zone which makes him dangerous, but he's poor defensively and that makes him equally as dangerous, except to his own cause. Schremp is a player the U.S. could improve upon to take the next step.

So you are impressed with big stats? How many of those points came on the power play? Fact of the matter is that Schremp was a two-way liability and recognized as such coming to the team. A talented forward, but a guy with substandard skating that could be taken advantage of in the defensive zone or during the transition game. His scoring numbers are what buys him any level of respect at all. He can make some very impressive moves in the offensive zone which makes him dangerous, but he's poor defensively and that makes him equally as dangerous, except to his own cause. Schremp is a player the U.S. could improve upon to take the next step.
Perhaps, but the bottom line is Schremp was more beneficial to the team than he was a hazard. It's pretty hard for one to argue that Schremp didn't deserve more ice time, as he wasn't horrible defensively, and not any worse than a lot of forwards on that US team this year.

So you are impressed with big stats? How many of those points came on the power play? Fact of the matter is that Schremp was a two-way liability and recognized as such coming to the team. A talented forward, but a guy with substandard skating that could be taken advantage of in the defensive zone or during the transition game. His scoring numbers are what buys him any level of respect at all. He can make some very impressive moves in the offensive zone which makes him dangerous, but he's poor defensively and that makes him equally as dangerous, except to his own cause. Schremp is a player the U.S. could improve upon to take the next step. Usa's D sucks anyways, they look like chickens with their heads cut off. Outlet passing was horrible. Did you see the goal when Robbie SKATED up pass the blue line and launched a Rocket to beat the goalie? Or when he droped the puck between his legs and threw it on net which end up a goal? He is not bad on defence either. People dont notice little things like when he back checks and gets a stick on people to slow them down.

schremp was definitely not one of the worst players on usa. i agree he isnt the best skater, but his played well in his role as a goal scorer, and i dont think his defensive liability ouweighed his offensive ability. i had many questions about the players chosen coming into the tourney, if i could have chosen the team it would have looked more like this;

forwards
osullivan
stafford
d fritsche
kessel
schremp
hennessey

callahan
t fritsche
earl
porter
hensick
bourque
pinneault

defense
suter
borer
johnson
thelen
lashoff
byfuglien
brennan/hagemo/macias

goalies
montoya
coleman

4g 1a 5pts.. in a limited role. You are deff a Schremp hater, and not to smart aswell.

All 4 on the PP though. But i wouldnt consider him one of the worst players.

Usa's D sucks anyways, they look like chickens with their heads cut off. Outlet passing was horrible. Did you see the goal when Robbie SKATED up pass the blue line and launched a Rocket to beat the goalie? Or when he droped the puck between his legs and threw it on net which end up a goal? He is not bad on defence either. People dont notice little things like when he back checks and gets a stick on people to slow them down.


Dido... i've seen him play 100 times the past 2 years...and his defense was bad last year and is much better this year... if it weren't hunter wouldn't be playing him as much as he is

IMO there was no one player that killed this team. This team as a whole was just sloppy and just got picked apart by teams with more structure. That all falls back on Sandelin. He just did a piss poor job and I hope that he doesn't come back next year.

Much of what I was going to post has already been said, but here are my thoughts:

1) The defense was poorly constructed. Guys like Hunwick and Likens shouldn't have been given a free ride since they were on the team last year, and Brian Lee shouldn't have been named. Too many smallish, finesse oriented types, and not enough of the strong, stay-at-home variety. I think guys like Mike Brennan, Matt Lashoff, Jack Johnson, Mike Sauer, and even A.J. Thelen would have been better choices.

2) I can't really fault the U.S. brass on the goaltending duo we brought to the event. I didn't forsee Montoya struggling like he did, but I wasn't surprised Schneider didn't play well, as he's seen limited action this year. Gerald Coleman or Mike Brown would have been better choices as back-ups.

3) The forward group was good, although it could have used a bit more size and playmaking ability. Alot of great one-on-one guys, but some questionable passing, and alot of tough going in the trenches.

4) Coaching was lacking, although I don't know how the blame should be assigned since it's tough to get a system in place in such a short period of time, especially when a team struggles and you're shifting players trying to find the right fit.

5) The selection process needs to be looked at a bit. Players who who were on the team the year before shouldn't get a free pass, and a summer evaluation camp doesn't appear to be the optimal way to get a read on current ability. Something needs to be done to ensure the players playing the best currently are named.


All this being said we can still salvage a bronze medal, which will be amazing given the tumult this team has been through.

Much of what I was going to post has already been said, but here are my thoughts:

1) The defense was poorly constructed. Guys like Hunwick and Likens shouldn't have been given a free ride since they were on the team last year, and Brian Lee shouldn't have been named. Too many smallish, finesse oriented types, and not enough of the strong, stay-at-home variety. I think guys like Mike Brennan, Matt Lashoff, Jack Johnson, Mike Sauer, and even A.J. Thelen would have been better choices.

2) I can't really fault the U.S. brass on the goaltending duo we brought to the event. I didn't forsee Montoya struggling like he did, but I wasn't surprised Schneider didn't play well, as he's seen limited action this year. Gerald Coleman or Mike Brown would have been better choices as back-ups.

3) The forward group was good, although it could have used a bit more size and playmaking ability. Alot of great one-on-one guys, but some questionable passing, and alot of tough going in the trenches.

4) Coaching was lacking, although I don't know how the blame should be assigned since it's tough to get a system in place in such a short period of time, especially when a team struggles and you're shifting players trying to find the right fit.

5) The selection process needs to be looked at a bit. Players who who were on the team the year before shouldn't get a free pass, and a summer evaluation camp doesn't appear to be the optimal way to get a read on current ability. Something needs to be done to ensure the players playing the best currently are named.


All this being said we can still salvage a bronze medal, which will be amazing given the tumult this team has been through.


Hey Rabid Ranger, you were the one on this board before the WJC's started saying that the USA defence will be fine, just like last year as they may not be big, but they can move the puck and skate. I was on here telling you you were wrong, but you had no idea. I mentioned Byfuglien and Fitzgerald out of the WHL, but of course the guys selected were better. I mean Byfuglien is on pace for 30 goals this year as a D-man and he has outplayed Barker and Belle head to head this season! Fitzgerald is a mean SOB and can play D. Both guys are also over 6'2 and 220lbs. Anyways, the brilliant USA braintrust brought along Brian Lee and I bet I can count the number of shifts he had in the whole tourney on one hand! Such a mistake and I feel sorry for the kid. I think we can all see last year was more luck than anything winning the gold medal. I also brought up the fact that Montoya was struggling prior to the tourney, but again, I was wrong and it was the forwards and D-man at Michigan who were to blame. I guess I can say I told you guys so. :p:

12-07-2004, 10:58 PM
Pepper
Registered User

U.S doesn't impress me at all apart from goaltending, then again they didn't impress me last year either.

They miss their best forward/player in Parise, their defense is suspect after first pairing (well, after Suter), they lack size & skill upfront and generally looks like a weak group (relatively speaking of course)

Well hindsight is always 20/20 but looks like I was right. Also I predicted that Montoya won't impress either.

Oh, and come talk to me when London wins a championship.Witnessed.

I mentioned Byfuglien and Fitzgerald out of the WHL, but of course the guys selected were better. I mean Byfuglien is on pace for 30 goals this year as a D-man and he has outplayed Barker and Belle head to head this season! Fitzgerald is a mean SOB and can play D. Both guys are also over 6'2 and 220lbs.

The only two guys I was going to mention are Byfuglien and FitzGerald. They could have dominated this tournament on defence.

What does USA Hockey have against the WHL?

The only two guys I was going to mention are Byfuglien and FitzGerald. They could have dominated this tournament on defence.

What does USA Hockey have against the WHL?

I've heard they're both beasts, I would've loved to have seen them play, Especially since Fitzgerald is a Blues prospect(hopefully another Jackman :innocent: ). They would've changed the face of the U.S. team too. The team played kind of physical, but mostly dirty stuff like short-arm cross checks and little sucker punches. They didn't have anyone to regulate and put big hits on people. For example against Sweden, Kessel got rocked by a clean hit and instead of giving it right back the rest of the team just started all this little cheap stuff that would've gotten them 2 minutes in the NHL...

And Schremp did suck. When he didn't shoot the puck right after he got it (wherever he was) he was either turning it over or not playing defense. I admit he's talented but his play was immature and selfish most of the time.

Hey Rabid Ranger, you were the one on this board before the WJC's started saying that the USA defence will be fine, just like last year as they may not be big, but they can move the puck and skate.
If they would have been able to move the puck and skate with the same losing result, then you would be on to something. Rabid Ranger was depending on the D to skate and move the puck effectively; clearly that didn't happen. If it would have happened, I think your size issue would have been forgotten about. Fact is, they were more finesse this year, but the abysmal puck movement, no system, and just stupid play overall hurt them much more than just the fact that they were primarily a finesse defensive unit.

Let's also not forget that if Vorobiev gets called for delay of game, the US might have won that game. I would say that the Russians carried play in the game but until that Vorobiev non-call and the subsequent Russian goal, the game was well within reach.
I didn't get to see the game. Can someone tell me what happened?

I didn't get to see the game. Can someone tell me what happened?

Vorobiev knocked the net off intentionally...obviously not so obvious to the Swedish referee.

It should have been called imo, but it is quite extreme to say that the USA could have won the game had it been called.

Dido... i've seen him play 100 times the past 2 years...and his defense was bad last year and is much better this year... if it weren't hunter wouldn't be playing him as much as he is

You can't win. The people who saw him a grand total of once on Sportsnet and on the PP for the US know more than you or others who have access to season's tickets to the Knights games.

It should have been called imo, but it is quite extreme to say that the USA could have won the game had it been called.
Not really. It was 3-2 with 11 or 12 minutes left at that point and if the call is made, USA goes on the PP and Malkin doesn't score right afterwards to make it 4-2. Who knows how it plays out if that call was made.

I've been cheering for Canada from the beginning, but I hate when a cheap, cheap play like that has an effect on such an important game.

Cheap?

Well, you gotta do what you gotta do to win.

Cheap?

Well, you gotta do what you gotta do to win.
I guess, as I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation, but it most definitely was cheap, regardless.

Thinking about it, I could see myself doing that if I was close to the net purely out of reaction/desperation, but I honestly doubt I would skate out of my way to knock the net off the way Vorobiev did.

I guess, as I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation, but it most definitely was cheap, regardless.

Thinking about it, I could see myself doing that if I was close to the net purely out of reaction/desperation, but I honestly doubt I would skate out of my way to knock the net off the way Vorobiev did.If it meant a spot in the Gold medal game you probably would.

Vorobiev knocked the net off intentionally...obviously not so obvious to the Swedish referee.

It should have been called imo, but it is quite extreme to say that the USA could have won the game had it been called.
Oh yeah, I did see that. (I was in a Bar last night so I didn't get to hear any announcers.)

Anyways, I don't think it was Cheap, because he HAD to know that there would be a penalty called for it, and its not his fault the ref didn't call one.

If it meant a spot in the Gold medal game you probably would.
In Vorobiev's case I especially wouldn't do it, thinking about it more now. I'm pretty sure the puck wasn't directly around the crease and not in a position where a goal was imminent, so if I had that much time I probably would start plowing away to make sure all the Americans are out of the crease and not screening my goaltender. That's simply because of the fact that if I went that far out of my way like Vorobiev did, I'd be pretty confident that I'd be in the box for the next two minutes. That's not a smart play at that part of the game, no matter what, unless a goal is completely unstoppable otherwise. My memory might be wrong, but while the puck was in the possession of the Americans, I definitely don't remember being a dire situation.

Anyways, the brilliant USA braintrust brought along Brian Lee and I bet I can count the number of shifts he had in the whole tourney on one hand! Such a mistake and I feel sorry for the kid. I think we can all see last year was more luck than anything winning the gold medal.
Just caught this. So the gold medal was "luck" because a guy who played very little last year was on the team again and played like crap this year? Maybe it had to do with the fact that last year's American talent pool was obviously superior to this year's. Sure, every team will have their share of bounces for them and so called luck, but I'm a believer in creating your own luck which the American's did last year and the Canadians did not. Notice how the Americans didn't get too much luck in favor of them this year which is a direct result of them playing like crap.

This is a pathetic attempt even for you. :shakehead

Yeah, he was good during that 5 second span when he scored those goals, but the other 59:55 of the hockey game he was useless.

Oh, and come talk to me when London wins a championship.

Agreed!

Well during most of that 59:55 of the hockey game, Schremp was on the bench...

Hey Rabid Ranger, you were the one on this board before the WJC's started saying that the USA defence will be fine, just like last year as they may not be big, but they can move the puck and skate. I was on here telling you you were wrong, but you had no idea. I mentioned Byfuglien and Fitzgerald out of the WHL, but of course the guys selected were better. I mean Byfuglien is on pace for 30 goals this year as a D-man and he has outplayed Barker and Belle head to head this season! Fitzgerald is a mean SOB and can play D. Both guys are also over 6'2 and 220lbs. Anyways, the brilliant USA braintrust brought along Brian Lee and I bet I can count the number of shifts he had in the whole tourney on one hand! Such a mistake and I feel sorry for the kid. I think we can all see last year was more luck than anything winning the gold medal. I also brought up the fact that Montoya was struggling prior to the tourney, but again, I was wrong and it was the forwards and D-man at Michigan who were to blame. I guess I can say I told you guys so. :p:


I guess you're a genius and I'm an idiot. Great job! :bow:

The only two guys I was going to mention are Byfuglien and FitzGerald. They could have dominated this tournament on defence.

What does USA Hockey have against the WHL?


Not on the radar I suppose. The U.S. is always going to lean towards the NCAA, with a bit of CHL representation. The WHL might get more of a look next year when the tourney is in Vancouver. I expect a guy like Michael Sauer to get a long look.

Perhaps, but the bottom line is Schremp was more beneficial to the team than he was a hazard. It's pretty hard for one to argue that Schremp didn't deserve more ice time, as he wasn't horrible defensively, and not any worse than a lot of forwards on that US team this year.

He was horrible definsively, but he was clutch offensively and creating a lot of offensive chances. I won't hold his defensive issues against him that much as the whole forward core was pathetic in their back-checking, and the defense was pretty sad as well.

I think the biggest hit to this US team was the bad goaltending and bad defense. Suter was the lone horse for team USA, and his partner was the abysmal Likens (shudder). Last year, Suter had Wisenewski and they both had tremendous chemistry together. Lets not forget Mark Stuart, as well, who was able to eat up 25+ minutes along with Suter and form a truly effective defensive unit.

:handclap: I agree, I think the coaching was terrible. Sandelin will 100% not be back next year. :p: USA's coaching sucked. Sandelin is absolutely overrated as a coach. If he hadn't been buddies with Dean Blais, he never would have been selected as a replacement.

He was horrible definsively, but he was clutch offensively and creating a lot of offensive chances. I won't hold his defensive issues against him that much as the whole forward core was pathetic in their back-checking, and the defense was pretty sad as well.


I thought Schremp started out poorly, but at this point I think he's been at the very least average defensively. He's put forth a good effort and competed, and IMO that's good enough for me. I also wouldn't label the entire forward group as pathetic when it comes to back-checking and defense. I thought guys like Callahan, Fristche, Stafford, and Kevin Porter did a nice job in that regard.


I think the biggest hit to this US team was the bad goaltending and bad defense. Suter was the lone horse for team USA, and his partner was the abysmal Likens (shudder). Last year, Suter had Wisenewski and they both had tremendous chemistry together. Lets not forget Mark Stuart, as well, who was able to eat up 25+ minutes along with Suter and form a truly effective defensive unit.


I would agree that shoddy goaltending and poor defense caused alot of problems, but Montoya played much better against Sweden and Russia, as did the defense. Suter was the star on the blueline, but Borer and Hagemo also played well. Jeff Likens, Matt Hunwick, and Brian Lee were forgettable to say the least.

I've been thinking about this, and here's what I've come up with.

The USA won the World Jr's last year when it was not in the USA.

The USA did not win the World Jr's this year, and it is in the USA.

My conclusion follows thusly: I think the USA picked the wrong year to win the tourney. They should have won it this year instead. This is done by scoring more goals than your opponent on that given night. That's what the USA should have done.

Hope that helps. :teach:

:dunce: Note. The only team that could beat the Canadian team this year is an NHL team, and I'm sure there's some NHL teams that probably couldn't beat this team Canada. Recognize!!! :yo: :yo: I've been thinking about this, and here's what I've come up with.

The USA won the World Jr's last year when it was not in the USA.

The USA did not win the World Jr's this year, and it is in the USA.

My conclusion follows thusly: I think the USA picked the wrong year to win the tourney. They should have won it this year instead. This is done by scoring more goals than your opponent on that given night. That's what the USA should have done.

Hope that helps. :teach: