The 3 metro NYC teams should be

well represented at the WJC's. NYR will have between 6 to 8 and the Isles have 3 confirmed. Anyone know how many the Devils will have playing?

one.

looks like bahensky didn't make it on to the czech team, so the rangers should have 7 guys i think

looks like bahensky didn't make it on to the czech team, so the rangers should have 7 guys i think

Montoya,Korpikoski,Dawes,Baranka,Callahan,Furrer and Petruzalek

looks like bahensky didn't make it on to the czech team, so the rangers should have 7 guys i think

Where did you see that he was cut?

That's a nice attempt to bash the Devils, ATLANTARANGER, especially since you also asked the same question on the NJ forum, compared their representation at the WJCs to the other Metro teams' AND recently started a thread claiming that Parise and Ahonen are overrated.

Your intent is clever yet thinly veiled.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=119782&page=2&pp=15

midway down the page someone posted the final roster (i assume it's correct)

though i just saw this WJC preview written yesterday and they still list him as being on the team

http://www.forecaster.ca/hockeynews/hockey/extras.cgi?wjc2005-preview

:dunno:

the discussion today on the WJC boards started today i think, so he might have just gotten cut. it'd be nice if there was a place that displayed all the official rosters

That's a nice attempt to bash the Devils, ATLANTARANGER, especially since you also asked the same question on the NJ forum, compared their representation at the WJCs to the other Metro teams' AND recently started a thread claiming that Parise and Ahonen are overrated.

Your intent is clever yet thinly veiled.


So what? You guys have owned us over the past 7 years and have been on top of the league for the past 10 years. I wouldnt get my panties in a bunch over a little jab here and there.

That's a nice attempt to bash the Devils, ATLANTARANGER, especially since you also asked the same question on the NJ forum, compared their representation at the WJCs to the other Metro teams' AND recently started a thread claiming that Parise and Ahonen are overrated.

Your intent is clever yet thinly veiled.
so well that all you have is one. One would have thought that it would be the NYR's with only one, after all we draft so poorly, right?

As far as Parise & Moore, I was just struck by the comparison. Parise I think is by far the better prospect, at least that's what the experts say. But when you stop and look, he scored what, 4 goals in like the first 5 games and has only 1 since. Moore has had a consistant, yet unspectacular year.

Ahonen to me is a puzzle, I can't see how he's been in the minors for 4 years! NJ has had injuries with their backups and not once have they called up Ahonen. After all don't you give your top goalie prospect a chance? Now it seems that he's playing 2nd fiddle to Clemmensen. Labarbera is like maybe 4th or 5th in our prospect list, yet he's the raining AHL MVP and record holder. Funny how our terrible drafting has been able to stumble upon some late round jewels! Some experts say that that is truly the sign of a good organization. Imagine having 5 of your top 6 picks in your 1st draft having already played in the NHL. That Renney and Sather really stepped in it, you know!

One last thing, how's Danton like prison so far?

but what they do better than draft is develop. The Rangers have more under 20 players considered for the WJCs, but the Devils have more NHL-caliber players in the 21-30 age group. Could this be a signal of changing times? Who knows, as these players at the WJCs have a ways to go before becoming NHLers.

I kind of agree on Ahonen. This guy has been in the minors for 4 years already and the Devils never have started him once. They recalled him a couple of times as an emergency backup. But why didn't they have the confidence to play him? What was so bad that could have happened?

If Ahonen is so great, how come he isn't tearing up the AHL? He also seems to get hurt sometimes and sick a lot. This year being an example. And Clemmensen has already established himself as a reliable backup.

Makes ya wonder. Of course, NJ fans will argue that Ahonen has no chance of doing anything because Brodeur plays almost every game. So, it's better for his development to play in the AHL.

LaBarbera was drafted late and not much was expected. He has already been recalled a couple of times and started. Though he hasn't looked comfortable, he got experience. And now, he's working with our new goalie coach Allaire. This should only benefit him. And he's proving last year's MVP season in the 'A' wasn't a fluke. The only thing he needs to do now is take his game to the next level and prove he can play. Whenever that is, only God knows.

The other thing that works against Jason is that he's a couple of years older than Ahonen and has stiff competition in Lundqvist, Montoya and possibly Blackburn. When you factor in Dunham and Weekes if the NHL ever comes back, it's going to be tough for Jason to make it.

I kind of feel that the Devils should have dealt Ahonen already and gotten back something. His value can't be that high right now. And Brodeur shows no signs of slowing down. What's the point of carrying a guy considered to be a top goalie prospect if all he'll ever get in is 4-5 NHL games and toil in the minors? Better off trading him.

On our goalie situation, I see a trade coming whenever the NHL returns. Something has to give. And by the time it comes back, Montoya will probably be in Hartford signed and so will Lundqvist. Blackburn might be healthy enough to play too. That's a logjam and it doesn't even include Jason or the two goalies on the NHL roster. Valiquette too.


On the Parise vs Moore thing, there's no comparison. One guy is considered a "sure thing." The other was drafted a few years ago out of Harvard and had a solid college career and has played well for Hartford. He's developed into our best player. I'd have enough confidence to have him center a 3rd line. He competes hard all the time, skates like the wind and has great vision. His forechecking abilities are not that different from Parise. Moore always works hard. That's also the book on Parise. He never gives up on plays and can play in any facet. They do sound a lot similar. But Parise is supposed to have this skill that separates him from others. Both guys are small but use their size well. The difference aside from the talent is Moore is four years older. So, less is expected.

Thing is Moore showed in his debut against Montreal what he could do, tallying three assists. Only second Ranger to ever have that kind of start. Even sparked Lundmark.

So, what's Moore's ceiling? Hard to say. If he is given the kind of role he deserves, why can't he put up 18-20 goals and 25-30 assists? He has enough ability too. Maybe he taps out at 50 points. And I see him as a solid two-way player. Well isn't that special? You can never have enough players like that.


The other difference is this. Parise has these lofty expectations and tons of pressure. If he doesn't become an All-Star and put up 70-or-more points, he'll be considered a bust. He is supposed to be this 'franchise center.' Better than Gomez.

That's a lot of pressure.

I know he has 21 or 22 points in the 'A' but most of them have come on the power play. Nobody ever mentions it. I bet at least half his pts have come via it.


I'm sure he'll improve production at even-strength eventually. Just thought that was interesting.


Anyway, I think the real comparison should be Lundqvist vs Ahonen. One guy has risen his stock a ton and was taken way late (7th round, 2000) while the other was a 1st round pick with higher expectations.

As far as the other, we don't really have anyone similar that can compare to Parise. I suppose Jessiman will be unfairly compared because they took him over Zach. But they're different style players.

Maybe if Dawes makes it, he will be compared to Parise. They're similar in stature and Nigel was great last year for Canada. Had more pts than Parise in the WJC. If Dawes can duplicate last year's output on a better team, then he'll get more recognition.


We'll see how it goes.

IMO there is no comparison between Parise and Moore. I wouldn't even bother to bring it up. This is Parise's first year of pro and surrounded by less talent in Albany he has done pretty well. He is making the adjustment from college hockey to a more physical pro game pretty well.

As for consistancy, Moore had a huge slump as well during the Wolfpack's losing streak. McGill commented about his line and Lundmark's being non-existant on a few nights and benched Lundmark and Balej instead of Moore because it made more of a statement to the team.

Offensively Parise has far more weapons than Moore and still more time to develop them further. Part of the reason why Parise has more PP points is because he is just that good offensively and when he has room, obviously he can do something with it. Defensively, I put them on the same ground as they both pretty the puck very well. Moore gets the edge on the penalty kill simply because Parise usually isn't on the ice for it (River Rats have plenty of others for it).

As for the Ahonen vs LaBarbera argument... Ahonen certainly when draft was the better goalie. LaBarbera has surprised a lot of people down in the AHL. But to put it simply, I can never see him being a successful goalie in the NHL unless he improves his response time dramatically. I've seen him live a number of times and he just seems to move in slow motion at times. He has great positioning but his reflexes just seem so slow to me. Ahonen I have seen play twice. His positioning is pretty good but his reflexes are much better. I don't think he has that franchise label that people gave him when he was drafted (ala Brodeur, Belfour, Roy.. etc) but I think he could be a solid goalie like Thibault or Cechmanek, where he can play a solid game behind good defense. Ahonen still gets the edge in my book talentwise.

Comparing Ahonen to Lundqvist would be impossible for me, as I haven't seen Lundqvist in person but from everything I have read, at this point he might just be better than Ahonen. I am looking forward to hopefully seeing him on NA ice next year.

So what? You guys have owned us over the past 7 years and have been on top of the league for the past 10 years. I wouldnt get my panties in a bunch over a little jab here and there.

Sorry if I came across as feeling that way...I just wanted to let him know that I could see through what he was saying. I am actually looking forward to your team improving so the rivalry can be completely refueled, just to let you know. I'm pretty much wishing good luck to the Rangers, as weird as it might be.
:dunno:

That's a nice attempt to bash the Devils, ATLANTARANGER, especially since you also asked the same question on the NJ forum, compared their representation at the WJCs to the other Metro teams' AND recently started a thread claiming that Parise and Ahonen are overrated.

Your intent is clever yet thinly veiled.

You are aware that this is the Rangers' board, right?

apparently bahensky is on the czech team...i was misinformed

http://www.ralphsworldjr.com/New2/index2.php?page=TP_In&cou=CZE

"Devils have more NHL-caliber players in the 21-30 age group. "


My butt. The Devils prospects are extremely poor right now. Like I said before. When you win you get credit for everything. They Devils do not have anywhere close to a good farm sytem at this moment.

"Devils have more NHL-caliber players in the 21-30 age group. "


My butt. The Devils prospects are extremely poor right now. Like I said before. When you win you get credit for everything. They Devils do not have anywhere close to a good farm sytem at this moment.
Are you kidding??

Zach Parise
Aleksander Suglobov
Tuomas Philman
Travis Zajac
Petr Vrana
Ivan Khomutov
Barry Tallackson
Matt DeMarchi
Aaron Voros
Teemu Laine
Ilkka Pikkarainen
Ahren Nittel
Tyler Eckford

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team.php?team=21

You really feel that this is extremely poor? Hate to break it to you but our farm system is still strong as ever, in fact it's nowhere close to being close to a poor farm system as you are suggesting.

the devils farm system strength has always been the way they've been able to plug players in and have them perform their function at least adquetly. a strong system will help that, though i think it teneds to make their prospects seem better than they are when they play for the devils

the devils farm system strength has always been the way they've been able to plug players in and have them perform their function at least adquetly. a strong system will help that, though i think it teneds to make their prospects seem better than they are when they play for the devils
I'm not sure I know what you mean, espicially since you look around the league and you will see alot of rosters filled with former Devils prospects or players (via trade, release, etc..). I mean I agree that they are groomed to play Devils hockey, but that also makes them a very wanted commodity among other teams in the league for some reason.

By the way I think it's a good thing that the Rangers have finally taken into grooming their own propects seriously since a big part of the league success in the years ahead will rely on having a strong Ranger team in it and this is a good first step.

actually i look again on that roster and now bahensky isn't there...makes me look like a fool :dunce:

he was there just this morning, i swear, must have just updated it

Heck I want the Rangers to follow the Devils approach. Respect where respect is due, the Devils have been doing it right and with success for a DECADE now. That is worth emulating.

never said anything about prospects...I was talking NHL caliber players from 21-30. That's all.

so well that all you have is one. One would have thought that it would be the NYR's with only one, after all we draft so poorly, right?
Obviously the Rangers were going to have many players in the WJC after tearing apart their roster. I believe NYR had somewhere around six or seven picks in the first two rounds of the draft. I'm sorry but its hard to screw up that many times.
As far as Parise & Moore, I was just struck by the comparison. Parise I think is by far the better prospect, at least that's what the experts say. But when you stop and look, he scored what, 4 goals in like the first 5 games and has only 1 since. Moore has had a consistant, yet unspectacular year.
Moore has played more professional hockey than Parise. As a rookie leading his team in scoring he's not doing so bad.

Ahonen to me is a puzzle, I can't see how he's been in the minors for 4 years! NJ has had injuries with their backups and not once have they called up Ahonen. After all don't you give your top goalie prospect a chance? Now it seems that he's playing 2nd fiddle to Clemmensen. Labarbera is like maybe 4th or 5th in our prospect list, yet he's the raining AHL MVP and record holder. Funny how our terrible drafting has been able to stumble upon some late round jewels! Some experts say that that is truly the sign of a good organization. Imagine having 5 of your top 6 picks in your 1st draft having already played in the NHL. That Renney and Sather really stepped in it, you know!
Ahonen is a questionmark to me also. He seems to have the talent and the reflexes to succede in the NHL, but has not put them all together for him to make it on to the roster. Not that he would get any playing time anyway. But your team is not completely without fault as you want to make it seem. Don't you remember Dan Blackburn?

One last thing, how's Danton like prison so far?
Its a shame Danton had such an attitude against Lou. He could have been an above average agitator. However Lou managed to trade him to St. Louis for Ivan Khomutov, and he has some promising upside.

Are you kidding??

Zach Parise
Aleksander Suglobov
Tuomas Philman
Travis Zajac
Petr Vrana
Ivan Khomutov
Barry Tallackson
Matt DeMarchi
Aaron Voros
Teemu Laine
Ilkka Pikkarainen
Ahren Nittel
Tyler Eckford

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team.php?team=21

You really feel that this is extremely poor? Hate to break it to you but our farm system is still strong as ever, in fact it's nowhere close to being close to a poor farm system as you are suggesting.

on these players came from some very bias devil fans. These are the same people who rated Ahonen over Montoya and Lindquist. These are also the same people who, immediately upon being drafted by the Devils, Zajac was catapulted up and over several ranger prospects! How is it that players who were rated by experts as being at least equal before the draft has one of them being rated so much higher?

If as you say that the players you listed are so good and promising, please explain why all the devil prospects at albany are all minus players? Why is albany at the bottom of the AHL if they have all this talent?

You are right that there are ex devils out there, but they were not deveolped by NJ, they were traded during their development for short term players. The credit goes to the organizations that traded for them. Drafting is about finding the late round gems. In that the NYR' s have done a far better job over the past 4 years.

on these players came from some very bias devil fans. These are the same people who rated Ahonen over Montoya and Lindquist. These are also the same people who, immediately upon being drafted by the Devils, Zajac was catapulted up and over several ranger prospects! How is it that players who were rated by experts as being at least equal before the draft has one of them being rated so much higher?

If as you say that the players you listed are so good and promising, please explain why all the devil prospects at albany are all minus players? Why is albany at the bottom of the AHL if they have all this talent?

You are right that there are ex devils out there, but they were not deveolped by NJ, they were traded during their development for short term players. The credit goes to the organizations that traded for them. Drafting is about finding the late round gems. In that the NYR' s have done a far better job over the past 4 years.
Zajac is currently the most dangerous freshmen in all college hockey. He is on pace for 25 goals which is pretty remarkable if you ask me.

Vrana just proved why he is the most underated prospect we have. 2 goals and an assist for Czechs in their first game.

Parise is better then anything the Rangers have, he is the best rookie player in the AHL this year.

Suglobov is dynamic and allready has played for Russia at the World Championships (got a hatrick in a game). He has faught injuries the past two seasons which have really kept him from dominating the AHL.

I think that is strong enough for up front.

I didn't see the part about Montoya.....I don't think Ahonen is better then Montoya but I also think Montoya is a sieve. I called a couple weeks before the WJC the Montoya would flop this year. After game 1, allthough he got the win, he looked horrible. The guy has loads and loads of work in order to become a good pro goaltender.

on these players came from some very bias devil fans. These are the same people who rated Ahonen over Montoya and Lindquist. These are also the same people who, immediately upon being drafted by the Devils, Zajac was catapulted up and over several ranger prospects! How is it that players who were rated by experts as being at least equal before the draft has one of them being rated so much higher?

Do you have anything to back this up that Devils fans rated Ahonen over Montoya, because I don't recall anybody doing that and I'm all over the boards. I personally would rank Montoya over Ahonen easily but Ahonen over Lindquist barely. As for Travis Zajac, he's only leading all college freshmen in goal scoring and is proving to be another late first round steal for us just as Parise was. He's 6'2 205 has sweet hands and has speed to burn, there really isn't nothing not to like.


If as you say that the players you listed are so good and promising, please explain why all the devil prospects at albany are all minus players? Why is albany at the bottom of the AHL if they have all this talent?

I'm not shocked at that at all, we have 12 players who are either rookies or 2nd year players, the club is extremely young and is also riddled at the blueline with injuries. The Devils don't use the farm team to win games but more as a development stage of a prospects career, they will give top minutes to the young kids to help develop them and bring in a handfull of AHL veterans just for help the team with expierence, you and pleasemyboy need not to concern with the wins and loses so much when it comes to judging our prospects.


You are right that there are ex devils out there, but they were not deveolped by NJ, they were traded during their development for short term players. The credit goes to the organizations that traded for them. Drafting is about finding the late round gems. In that the NYR' s have done a far better job over the past 4 years.

Now your being silly or just refuse to give credit where credit is due. As for late round gems your right, alot of teams success is due to finding good players late in the rounds as the Devils do every year and once again you are selling the Devils short in this catergory, they are as good as anybody with it comes to this.

I would strongly advise AGAINST arguing with Devils fans about their farm system. It kills me to say it, but they have proven over the past 10 years they know how to develop talent and draft guys who will work in their system. They arguably have the best scouting staff in all of professional sports.

I would strongly advise AGAINST arguing with Devils fans about their farm system. It kills me to say it, but they have proven over the past 10 years they know how to develop talent and draft guys who will work in their system. They arguably have the best scouting staff in all of professional sports.
The good news for you guys is that it finally looks like the Rangers are going to follow suit as well. It's amazing how one draft can change an outlook of a team but that seems to be the case now were you had an organization that hardly relied on their farm system except to trade away their top prospects for over the hill superstars who wern't even that anymore to one that now has a bright outlook and some great prospects to build a future with.

Hopefully for you guys they won't trade them away.

the devils farm system strength has always been the way they've been able to plug players in and have them perform their function at least adquetly. a strong system will help that, though i think it teneds to make their prospects seem better than they are when they play for the devils

By "performing adequately" do you mean winning the Stanley Cup?

It's kind of hard to argue with Devil fans over prospects when their team has a proven track record.

It doesn't seem to matter when they get a guy either. They have a way of developing them.

Not saying everyone of their guys are automatic. Look at Ahonen. He's wasting away in the AHL and will never see the light of day in NJ. Kadeykin has been a bust so far. And Foster continues to have injuries and looks like he'll never be healthy.

But overall, they still produce guys like Gionta, Martin, Hale (even though his health is now a question), Parise and Suglobov.


As far as Zajac goes, it's his first year of school. How he progresses will tell whether or not he was a good pick. Same goes for Korpikoski, the guy the Devils coveted before the Rangers traded up for him. But they're taking different paths. Korp is in his first year in the men's league in Finland.

I believe our team now has much better depth than it ever did before. That should be a plus for the future.

By "performing adequately" do you mean winning the Stanley Cup?


He doesn't mean that at all. The Devils are able to put guys in good situations and they fit. It's like what Colin Campbell said back in '97. "They're like an interchangeable flock of forwards."

That's the Devils. If one guy's out, someone else comes in and fits a line.

It's kind of hard to argue with Devil fans over prospects when their team has a proven track record.

It doesn't seem to matter when they get a guy either. They have a way of developing them.

Not saying everyone of their guys are automatic. Look at Ahonen. He's wasting away in the AHL and will never see the light of day in NJ. Kadeykin has been a bust so far. And Foster continues to have injuries and looks like he'll never be healthy.

But overall, they still produce guys like Gionta, Martin, Hale (even though his health is now a question), Parise and Suglobov.


As far as Zajac goes, it's his first year of school. How he progresses will tell whether or not he was a good pick. Same goes for Korpikoski, the guy the Devils coveted before the Rangers traded up for him. But they're taking different paths. Korp is in his first year in the men's league in Finland.

I believe our team now has much better depth than it ever did before. That should be a plus for the future.
I agree 100%, this is Zajac's first year of college hockey. I am looking for a stronger 2nd half of the season and a great 2nd year. So far I think he has progressed rather well. Got off to a cool start then got going.

He doesn't mean that at all. The Devils are able to put guys in good situations and they fit. It's like what Colin Campbell said back in '97. "They're like an interchangeable flock of forwards."

That's the Devils. If one guy's out, someone else comes in and fits a line.

Agreed... and they play well enough to win the Stanley Cup repeatedly.
That's the sticking point, I think.

We've been doing it for ten years, why would it stop now?

Agreed... and they play well enough to win the Stanley Cup repeatedly.
That's the sticking point, I think.

We've been doing it for ten years, why would it stop now?


When you have the building blocks in place, it's a lot easier to be a contender because those extra pieces just have to play their roles.

You know who I am referring to:

The goalie and those two defensemen and you can now include that #1 left wing and top center.


That helps a ton.

When you have the building blocks in place, it's a lot easier to be a contender because those extra pieces just have to play their roles.

You know who I am referring to:

The goalie and those two defensemen and you can now include that #1 left wing and top center.


That helps a ton.

I dunno if John MacLean and Bruce Driver were "extra pieces." Or if Jason Arnott and Bobby Holik were. These players are groomed for their roles, yes... but when they get to play them, they play them as well as any player could. Could anyone else fill John Madden's role? Or Jay Pandolfo's? Probably, but those two were drafted (well, Pandolfo was), signed, and groomed to take those spots in the roster. Despite their original emphasis on scoring.

Does it make it easier? Perhaps... but it's never easy to win.

Lou, I'm not sure that your comment of "Montoya>>>Ahonen... Lundqvist<Ahonen" is very accurate. I havent seen Ahonen play but it doesn't matter. From what I gather most fans are split in the Montoya/Lundqvist debate. I think Lundqvist is the better prospect. I'm just getting picky, but at the least, most Ranger fans think they are equal (averaging opinions) IMO. Therefore, if one is better, I'd think both is.

...ok I don't know why I wrote that. Seems useless now. but I am drunk and its 12:45 am, goodnight.

I dunno if John MacLean and Bruce Driver were "extra pieces." Or if Jason Arnott and Bobby Holik were. These players are groomed for their roles, yes... but when they get to play them, they play them as well as any player could. Could anyone else fill John Madden's role? Or Jay Pandolfo's? Probably, but those two were drafted (well, Pandolfo was), signed, and groomed to take those spots in the roster. Despite their original emphasis on scoring.

Does it make it easier? Perhaps... but it's never easy to win.


I should have rephrased. Mostly referring to Stevens, Brodeur and Niedermayer. They've been there for all three Cups. And those are "franchise guys" that they built around. Brylin also was on the 3 teams. But nobody would confuse him with those guys. Ditto for the retired Daneyko.


MacLean was one of their scorers along with Richer and Lemieux plus the Broten pickup in '95.

They were able to replace those guys with Arnott, Elias, Sykora, Mogilny and even Holik in '00.

And Gomez eventually replaced Arnott as the #1 scoring center. Langenbrunner took Sykora's place.

Madden replaced Holik.


They always have guys like that. But when you have the key parts in place, that's a plus.

You're correct that it's never easy to win. Core guys help.

I wouldn't say Sykora was replaced by Holik. I think its more accurate that he filled the role of Randy McKay. Friesen, more or less, has taken Sykora's spot.

Lou, I'm not sure that your comment of "Montoya>>>Ahonen... Lundqvist<Ahonen" is very accurate. I havent seen Ahonen play but it doesn't matter. From what I gather most fans are split in the Montoya/Lundqvist debate. I think Lundqvist is the better prospect. I'm just getting picky, but at the least, most Ranger fans think they are equal (averaging opinions) IMO. Therefore, if one is better, I'd think both is.

...ok I don't know why I wrote that. Seems useless now. but I am drunk and its 12:45 am, goodnight.
I agree, I would rather Lundqvist over Montoya.

Zajac is currently the most dangerous freshmen in all college hockey. He is on pace for 25 goals which is pretty remarkable if you ask me.

Based off of what I saw Christmas nite I thought that honor would go to Drew Stafford and that is the reason why Zajac is having such a fine season. If Zajac is so good why isn't he at the world jrs?

Vrana just proved why he is the most underated prospect we have. 2 goals and an assist for Czechs in their first game.

Parise is better then anything the Rangers have, he is the best rookie player in the AHL this year. (5g, 18A, -7)


Really? Maybe Corey Locke from Hamilton may disagree (8G,8A, +8) or Thomas Vanek (14G, 8A, -1). But why has he slumped so badly from the 1st 2 weeks of the season? Parise scored like 4 goals in his 1st 2 weeks and 1 since then? Guess he wanted to pad his assist record, right?

Suglobov is dynamic and allready has played for Russia at the World Championships (got a hatrick in a game). He has faught injuries the past two seasons which have really kept him from dominating the AHL.

For such an outstanding player he seems to have real trouble playing defense or back checking. Isn't he the worst +/- player on the rats,(-11)? maybe it isn't just injuries that are keeping him back, if I remember right the devils play it pretty close to the vest and I don't know if Suglobov's perchant for being on for goals against sits well with lou!

I think that is strong enough for up front.

I didn't see the part about Montoya.....I don't think Ahonen is better then Montoya but I also think Montoya is a sieve. I called a couple weeks before the WJC the Montoya would flop this year. After game 1, allthough he got the win, he looked horrible. The guy has loads and loads of work in order to become a good pro goaltender.




"Zajac is currently the most dangerous freshmen in all college hockey. He is on pace for 25 goals which is pretty remarkable if you ask me."

Based off of what I saw Christmas nite I thought that honor would go to Drew Stafford and that is the reason why Zajac is having such a fine season. If Zajac is so good why isn't he at the world jrs?

"Parise is better then anything the Rangers have, he is the best rookie player in the AHL this year. (5g, 18A, -7)"

Really? Maybe Corey Locke from Hamilton may disagree (8G,8A, +8) or Thomas Vanek (14G, 8A, -1). But why has he slumped so badly from the 1st 2 weeks of the season? Parise scored like 4 goals in his 1st 2 weeks and 1 since then? Guess he wanted to pad his assist stats, right?
There are several ranger prospects as good if not better than Parise starting with Fedor Tyutin, Al Montoya, Lundquist, Jessiman, Immonen, Balej, heck Dom Moore who is middle to bottom prospect in our system has better stats playing in the AHL (7G, 16A, +12). People can mock Moore, but the fact is he is playing against the same comp in the same league.




"Suglobov is dynamic and allready has played for Russia at the World Championships (got a hatrick in a game). He has faught injuries the past two seasons which have really kept him from dominating the AHL."

For such an outstanding player he seems to have real trouble playing defense or back checking. Isn't he the worst +/- player on the rats,(-11)? maybe it isn't just injuries that are keeping him back, if I remember right the devils play it pretty close to the vest and I don't know if Suglobov's perchant for being on for goals against sits well with lou!

The tide has turned and so are the fortunes of the devils and the rangers. I t will be really interesting to see what happens after the next couple of years. How come you didn't mention that standout Adrian Foster? Now there is a stdud!

Based off of what I saw Christmas nite I thought that honor would go to Drew Stafford and that is the reason why Zajac is having such a fine season. If Zajac is so good why isn't he at the world jrs?

err, you seem to be implying that stafford is a freshman (which he's not), but then again, are you saying that zajac is benefitting from stafford's play? kind of confusing the way you put it

it's kind of hard to say yet who the rangers have at forward that would be as good or better than parise...he's more polished at this point than a lot of rangers prospects, but that's no indication that he'll be better than all of them over a NHL career. jessiman would be many times more valuable IMO if he reaches his potential over parise, for example. but parise is definatly more NHL ready and polished at the moment. hard to compare goalies and defensemen to forwards, but i'd have to agree that players like tyutin, montoya, lundqivst, are roughly at least equal to parise in prospect status

Do you have anything to back this up that Devils fans rated Ahonen over Montoya, because I don't recall anybody doing that and I'm all over the boards. I personally would rank Montoya over Ahonen easily but Ahonen over Lindquist barely. As for Travis Zajac, he's only leading all college freshmen in goal scoring and is proving to be another late first round steal for us just as Parise was. He's 6'2 205 has sweet hands and has speed to burn, there really isn't nothing not to like.



I'm not shocked at that at all, we have 12 players who are either rookies or 2nd year players, the club is extremely young and is also riddled at the blueline with injuries. The Devils don't use the farm team to win games but more as a development stage of a prospects career, they will give top minutes to the young kids to help develop them and bring in a handfull of AHL veterans just for help the team with expierence, you and pleasemyboy need not to concern with the wins and loses so much when it comes to judging our prospects.



Now your being silly or just refuse to give credit where credit is due. As for late round gems your right, alot of teams success is due to finding good players late in the rounds as the Devils do every year and once again you are selling the Devils short in this catergory, they are as good as anybody with it comes to this.


Explain how Ahonen is still a 8.0? Jason Labarbera our 4th or 5th rated prospect is better than he is. Kadeykin a 7.0? Isn't he playing in some low level russian league? He's on a par with Pock and Kondratiev? At least those 2 guys have played in the NHL. He's rated higher than Liffiton 6.5, Taylor 6.5, Lampman 6.0, Baranka 6.0, Guenin and Potter 5.0. Other than Baranka, Guenin and Potter all the others have played in the NHL or the AHL or on an Elite Russian team.

Zajac was ranked at the draft in the same group as Graham and Byers. The moment the devils draft him he jumps up a whole unit! I thought Zajac was picked in the middle of the 1st round at 20, acouple of picks after our late 1st rounder at 19!

Adrian Foster, now here's a gem. He's equal to Jessiman and higher than Wiseman who at least has scored in the AHL, yet he's a 6 and Foster who really is a stiff is a 7.5! Giroux is a better prospect based off of what he has done in the A, yet he's an astounding 5.5! Prucha is a 6.0 and Moore who has better stats than Parise playing in the same league is a 6!

Now granted the ranger rankings are done in large part by ranger fans and I don't disagree with the majority of the rankings because I think they represent a fair appraisal of the players. On the other hand the devil rankings are off the chart on several players. There should be a 3rd catagory, 7.5AFL, the FL would represent fantasy land because that's where some of them appeared to have come from, wishful thinking at best.

How is it that now that the rangers as an organization have turned their attention to playing a solid defensive system, not the trap, but a fierce forechecking system, devil fans say that that is not important. Is it because our prospects are plus players and the devils are minus players, or have we been caught in another trend reversal and are late catching on again?


92......94........97........

Explain how Ahonen is still a 8.0? Jason Labarbera our 4th or 5th rated prospect is better than he is. Kadeykin a 7.0? Isn't he playing in some low level russian league? He's on a par with Pock and Kondratiev? At least those 2 guys have played in the NHL. He's rated higher than Liffiton 6.5, Taylor 6.5, Lampman 6.0, Baranka 6.0, Guenin and Potter 5.0. Other than Baranka, Guenin and Potter all the others have played in the NHL or the AHL or on an Elite Russian team.

Zajac was ranked at the draft in the same group as Graham and Byers. The moment the devils draft him he jumps up a whole unit! I thought Zajac was picked in the middle of the 1st round at 20, acouple of picks after our late 1st rounder at 19!

Adrian Foster, now here's a gem. He's equal to Jessiman and higher than Wiseman who at least has scored in the AHL, yet he's a 6 and Foster who really is a stiff is a 7.5! Giroux is a better prospect based off of what he has done in the A, yet he's an astounding 5.5! Prucha is a 6.0 and Moore who has better stats than Parise playing in the same league is a 6!

Now granted the ranger rankings are done in large part by ranger fans and I don't disagree with the majority of the rankings because I think they represent a fair appraisal of the players. On the other hand the devil rankings are off the chart on several players. There should be a 3rd catagory, 7.5AFL, the FL would represent fantasy land because that's where some of them appeared to have come from, wishful thinking at best.

How is it that now that the rangers as an organization have turned their attention to playing a solid defensive system, not the trap, but a fierce forechecking system, devil fans say that that is not important. Is it because our prospects are plus players and the devils are minus players, or have we been caught in another trend reversal and are late catching on again?

Well, you can believe all you like about our prospects compared to your prospects. But let's see something... which of your prospects have succeeded in the NHL.

In the last five seasons while Tom Renney has been head scout, you've drafted these successful NHLers:

Blackburn
Tyutin
Zidlicky

Before that, you've drafted:

Brendl
Lundmark
Malhotra
Labarbera (AHL)
York
Purinton
Savard

Not bad, I guess. That's back to 1994. Compare that to NJ:

Elias
Souray
Sullivan
Sykora
McCauley
Dagenais
White
Mitchell
Van Ryn
Gomez
Gionta
Commodore
Hale
Martin
Rupp

Our drafting is better than your drafting.

There's a reason that when we draft people, they jump up. We have consistantly produced NHL players like Sullivan, McCauley, Gomez, Elias, and Sykora. We always produce good rookies each season... last season, it was Martin and Hale, who played well. In 2000, it was White, Gomez, Madden, and Rafalski (two were signed out of FA.) That's what we do, it's why we win.

"Parise is better then anything the Rangers have, he is the best rookie player in the AHL this year. (5g, 18A, -7)""

Please. If you think Parise is going to walk in the NHL with his size and be a big player you haven't been paying attention. Gomez has also been made by playing with Elias who is great. He has yet to show up in a physical playoff series. His garbage points vs. Philly didn't disguise the fact he was completely dominated by the Flyers size.

Immonen is a player from the reports I read that has a good chance of being a very good NHL center. He is excellent on faceoffs. He is a good passer with decent size. I also would not take Parise over Jessiman. Power forwards are tough to predict. However, this guy was said to have great hands by quite a few scouts and he's a monster at 6'5, 220. If you want to know what he meant to his team just look at the Dartmouth scoring this year without him. It's a joke. I can't believe how little that team scores since he got injured. Power forwards are worth a lot more then a player like Parise.

If the Devils didn't draft Parise he wouldn't be getting half the prop's. The Devils drafting has not been great the past few years. They haven't developed an impact player in quite some time.

I agree with the poster that said Devil prospects can produce with that system. We have seen it many times. However, the way the game is played now, power forwards are a must. I remember a stretch last year when the Devils were dominating on defense and Bertuzzi came to town and completely destroyed them in a game. He was too big and talented for the Devils to deal with.

The bottom line is when you have a huge, power forward that can score on your roster it creates nightmare match-ups. You have to put big defenseman against them which are usually slow. If your powerforward line has any speed then you have a match-up problem again

Even with our team stinking, Jagr when put with Holik gave teams trouble every night.

Even take a guy like Modin who is a decent power forward. He was a nightmare to deal with in the playoffs. Philly was shutting offenses down and Modin gave them problems.

I mean, how long have we said we need a big defensmean like Beuk to clear the crease? There just aren't that many defenseman that big who can play the game on the NHL level. Power forwards give you such an advantage over most teams. If you have a chance to draft one you take your shot and hope for the best instead of drafting a smaller player like Parise. If a Bure or Sakic type is there in the draft that's different. 16 teams passed up on Parise and some of those have been drafting very well lately.

"Parise is better then anything the Rangers have, he is the best rookie player in the AHL this year. (5g, 18A, -7)""

Please. If you think Parise is going to walk in the NHL with his size and be a big player you haven't been paying attention. Gomez has also been made by playing with Elias who is great. He has yet to show up in a physical playoff series. His garbage points vs. Philly didn't disguise the fact he was completely dominated by the Flyers size.

Immonen is a player from the reports I read that has a good chance of being a very good NHL center. He is excellent on faceoffs. He is a good passer with decent size. I also would not take Parise over Jessiman. Power forwards are tough to predict. However, this guy was said to have great hands by quite a few scouts and he's a monster at 6'5, 220. If you want to know what he meant to his team just look at the Dartmouth scoring this year without him. It's a joke. I can't believe how little that team scores since he got injured. Power forwards are worth a lot more then a player like Parise.

If the Devils didn't draft Parise he wouldn't be getting half the prop's. The Devils drafting has not been great the past few years. They haven't developed an impact player in quite some time.

I agree with the poster that said Devil prospects can produce with that system. We have seen it many times. However, the way the game is played now, power forwards are a must. I remember a stretch last year when the Devils were dominating on defense and Bertuzzi came to town and completely destroyed them in a game. He was too big and talented for the Devils to deal with.

The bottom line is when you have a huge, power forward that can score on your roster it creates nightmare match-ups. You have to put big defenseman against them which are usually slow. If your powerforward line has any speed then you have a match-up problem again

Even with our team stinking, Jagr when put with Holik gave teams trouble every night.

If you want powerforwards... look at our prospect list.

Voros and Nittel are just a start, and both have produced very well when they've been healthy... Nittel has 6 points in his 7 games played this season. We've got lots more too.

"Parise is better then anything the Rangers have, he is the best rookie player in the AHL this year. (5g, 18A, -7)""

Please. If you think Parise is going to walk in the NHL with his size and be a big player you haven't been paying attention. Gomez has also been made by playing with Elias who is great. He has yet to show up in a physical playoff series. His garbage points vs. Philly didn't disguise the fact he was completely dominated by the Flyers size.

True, but then again, I doubt any Rangers prospect will succede right away when they break into the NHL also. But I find it funny that at 5'11" people begin writing players off. He's not exactly Brian Gionta (5'7"), in fact if Parise had one more inch no one would even be talking about his size. Also Gomez was not made by Elias. In his rookie year on the 3rd line he put up 70 points, most of them with out Mogilny. Gomez also played with Elias the year before when both were struggling to find their touch. If you saw any Devils games that year, you'd see the amazing chemistry between those two players.

Immonen is a player from the reports I read that has a good chance of being a very good NHL center. He is excellent on faceoffs. He is a good passer with decent size. I also would not take Parise over Jessiman. Power forwards are tough to predict. However, this guy was said to have great hands by quite a few scouts and he's a monster at 6'5, 220. If you want to know what he meant to his team just look at the Dartmouth scoring this year without him. It's a joke. I can't believe how little that team scores since he got injured. Power forwards are worth a lot more then a player like Parise.

Then again theres a possibility that Jessiman doesn't pan out at all. At this point I'd say Jessiman is very hit or miss. Parise has much more talent than Jessiman and if Jessiman wasn't 6'5" he'd probably be drafted in the 3rd round.

If the Devils didn't draft Parise he wouldn't be getting half the prop's. The Devils drafting has not been great the past few years. They haven't developed an impact player in quite some time.

I agree with the poster that said Devil prospects can produce with that system. We have seen it many times. However, the way the game is played now, power forwards are a must. I remember a stretch last year when the Devils were dominating on defense and Bertuzzi came to town and completely destroyed them in a game. He was too big and talented for the Devils to deal with.

The bottom line is when you have a huge, power forward that can score on your roster it creates nightmare match-ups. You have to put big defenseman against them which are usually slow. If your powerforward line has any speed then you have a match-up problem again

Thats not exactly true. It helps to have a powerforward, but the all you need are players who are willing to work hard and pay attention to detail. Tampa Bay, Ottawa, San Jose and New Jersey are good examples of that.

Even with our team stinking, Jagr when put with Holik gave teams trouble every night.
Size is overrated in the NHL. Give me Joe Sakic over Todd Bertuzzi any day.

If you look at the numbers of these power forwards below vs. NJ you can see how they can do damage against a team like the Devils when they no longer have a big defenseman like Stevens with a high talent level to match them. Some of these stats don't tell the story either. Bertuzzi didn't score but he completely dominated that game vs. the Devils. He made an incredible play to tie the game late from what I remember.


Bertuzzi 1 Game 2 A

Modin 4 games 1 G 4 A

Thornton 2 games 2 G 1 A

Guerin 1 game 1 G 1 A

Tkachuk 1 game 1 G

Nash 1 game 1 G 1 A

NJ was always able to combat big teams with Stevens. That is no longer going to be the case. A couple of pretty good Devil fans I know who understand hockey believe without question that Lou has drafted way too small the past few years. It finally started to show vs. Philly when Stevens was not there.

err, you seem to be implying that stafford is a freshman (which he's not), but then again, are you saying that zajac is benefitting from stafford's play? kind of confusing the way you put it

it's kind of hard to say yet who the rangers have at forward that would be as good or better than parise...he's more polished at this point than a lot of rangers prospects, but that's no indication that he'll be better than all of them over a NHL career. jessiman would be many times more valuable IMO if he reaches his potential over parise, for example. but parise is definatly more NHL ready and polished at the moment. hard to compare goalies and defensemen to forwards, but i'd have to agree that players like tyutin, montoya, lundqivst, are roughly at least equal to parise in prospect status


I thought from watching Stafford play 2 things stuck out, 1, he must be the best forward in college. 2, now I know why Zajac as a freshman is off to a good start. Buffalo has a very good player on their hands. I would love to lift him from them.

If you look at the numbers of these power forwards below vs. NJ you can see how they can do damage against a team like the Devils when they no longer have a big defenseman like Stevens with a high talent level to match them. Some of these stats don't tell the story either. Bertuzzi didn't score but he completely dominated that game vs. the Devils. He made an incredible play to tie the game late from what I remember.


Bertuzzi 1 Game 2 A

Modin 4 games 1 G 4 A

Thornton 2 games 2 G 1 A

Guerin 1 game 1 G 1 A

Tkachuk 1 game 1 G

Nash 1 game 1 G 1 A

NJ was always able to combat big teams with Stevens. That is no longer going to be the case. A couple of pretty good Devil fans I know who understand hockey believe without question that Lou has drafted way too small the past few years. It finally started to show vs. Philly when Stevens was not there.


Besides, NJ's style is more about team defense than it is about individual play. They stuff the middle and give you the outside.
The problem they are having is that they don't have enough experience on the backline. They will run into the same problem that the isles had, that the oilers had that montreal had. let's see you maintain the pace once the core group has grown old and you need to replace them. History shows that is doesn't happen.

Size is overrated in the NHL. Give me Joe Sakic over Todd Bertuzzi any day.

has more smurfs than Herb brooks' ranger ever had!

Lou has done a great job for many years. I don't like his drafting the past few years and as you said, it's hard to be good when your core starts to break down. I would loooooooove to see the game open up and players like Parise be able to create offense consistently with speed and talent. However, right now the game isn't played that way and you need big players who can score just like you need big, talented defenseman who can stop them.

You simply can't pass up on bigger, talented players for a small player in the first round unless he has franchise talent which Parise doesn't. We got Dawes late who has matched Parise in every area including the WJC's. If you look at some of these players picked after Parise, they made a mistake in my opinion

18. Eric Fehr
19. ANA- Ryan Getzlaf
20. MIN- Brent Burns
21. BOS Mark Stewart
22. EDM Marc-Antoine Pouliot
23. VAN- Canucks- Ryan Kesler
24. PHI- Mike Richards
25. FLA- Anthony Stewart

Read my post. Parise isn't within 2 league's of Sakic or Bure.

If you look at the numbers of these power forwards below vs. NJ you can see how they can do damage against a team like the Devils when they no longer have a big defenseman like Stevens with a high talent level to match them. Some of these stats don't tell the story either. Bertuzzi didn't score but he completely dominated that game vs. the Devils. He made an incredible play to tie the game late from what I remember.


Bertuzzi 1 Game 2 A

Modin 4 games 1 G 4 A

Thornton 2 games 2 G 1 A

Guerin 1 game 1 G 1 A

Tkachuk 1 game 1 G

Nash 1 game 1 G 1 A

NJ was always able to combat big teams with Stevens. That is no longer going to be the case. A couple of pretty good Devil fans I know who understand hockey believe without question that Lou has drafted way too small the past few years. It finally started to show vs. Philly when Stevens was not there.
True, there will be an adjustment period when Stevens actually retires, thats a no brainer. But Conte and Lamoriello don't draft for a particular strength. Their philosophy is and always will be to draft the best player available.

Read my post. Parise isn't within 2 league's of Sakic or Bure.
I never said he was, but I'd rather have the faster, smarter player than a lose cannon powerforward.

If you look at the numbers of these power forwards below vs. NJ you can see how they can do damage against a team like the Devils when they no longer have a big defenseman like Stevens with a high talent level to match them. Some of these stats don't tell the story either. Bertuzzi didn't score but he completely dominated that game vs. the Devils. He made an incredible play to tie the game late from what I remember.


Bertuzzi 1 Game 2 A

Modin 4 games 1 G 4 A

Thornton 2 games 2 G 1 A

Guerin 1 game 1 G 1 A

Tkachuk 1 game 1 G

Nash 1 game 1 G 1 A

NJ was always able to combat big teams with Stevens. That is no longer going to be the case. A couple of pretty good Devil fans I know who understand hockey believe without question that Lou has drafted way too small the past few years. It finally started to show vs. Philly when Stevens was not there.
Zajac - 6`2 195
Khomutov - 6`3 205
Tallackson - 6`4 215
Ryznar - 6`3 210
Voros - 6`4 195
Massen - 6`2 220
Nittel - 6`3 225

Thats just up front. You clearly know **** all about the devils and their organization. To top it off you would rather a project in Jessimen who didn't even average a PPG his 2nd year while being left off the WJC team (which Parise won MVP for) instead on Hobey Baker finalist, AHL's best rookie and WJC MVP top forward Zach Parise.

Lou has done a great job for many years. I don't like his drafting the past few years and as you said, it's hard to be good when your core starts to break down. I would loooooooove to see the game open up and players like Parise be able to create offense consistently with speed and talent. However, right now the game isn't played that way and you need big players who can score just like you need big, talented defenseman who can stop them.

You simply can't pass up on bigger, talented players for a small player in the first round unless he has franchise talent which Parise doesn't. We got Dawes late who has matched Parise in every area including the WJC's. If you look at some of these players picked after Parise, they made a mistake in my opinion

18. Eric Fehr
19. ANA- Ryan Getzlaf
20. MIN- Brent Burns
21. BOS Mark Stewart
22. EDM Marc-Antoine Pouliot
23. VAN- Canucks- Ryan Kesler
24. PHI- Mike Richards
25. FLA- Anthony Stewart
Ummmmm, none of those players are as good as Parise, none of those players have better potential then Parise and once again you are looking like a 5 year old fool.
You ***** and moan about size and strength then you bring Dawes who is a 5`8 midget into the equation. You truely are grasping for straws.

has more smurfs than Herb brooks' ranger ever had!
Yet one the cup in 2003 with Gomez (5`11) as our number 1 center.

Yes. We as Ranger fans no nothing about the Devil organization. We have only played them countless times the past few years. Try reading. Like I said, without Stevens to combat bigger teams the Devils aren't half the threat. If you think Hale, White and Martin are half the defenseman Stevens was you are nuts. You can see by the drop in the rankings for the Devils farm system that people are now adjusting their analysis on their players based on reality instead of just saying, "Well Lou drafted them so let us give them a high ranking."

Thats just up front. You clearly know **** all about the devils and their organization. To top it off you would rather a project in Jessimen who didn't even average a PPG his 2nd year while being left off the WJC team (which Parise won MVP for) instead on Hobey Baker finalist, AHL's best rookie and WJC MVP top forward Zach Parise.

While the new edition to the NYR clearly leaves alot to be desired as far as his posting goes no one poster beats his own teams drum louder than you do Jason.

You are by far the most biased poster on HF since Fish on the Sand was putting up all the homer nonsense about Montreal. :shakehead

Even with all your bias can you tell me at this point you wouldn't prefer the NYR prospects to the NJD's? :dunno:

Not like I don't know what your answer will be but just to amuse myself.

Yes. We as Ranger fans no nothing about the Devil organization. We have only played them countless times the past few years. Try reading. Like I said, without Stevens to combat bigger teams the Devils aren't half the threat. If you think Hale, White and Martin are half the defenseman Stevens was you are nuts. You can see by the drop in the rankings for the Devils farm system that people are now adjusting their analysis on their players based on reality instead of just saying, "Well Lou drafted them so let us give them a high ranking."
I didn't say Rangers fans don't know anything about our system. I said you don't. It seems in your debates you allways make it as if Devils prospects won't hit their potential but Rangers prospects will. Who is to say Jessimen even makes the NHL and doesn't end up like Mike Rupp, who is to say Immomen can't translate from the SMliga like Pihlman. You say Martin, who in his rookie season logged over 20 minutes a game on a playoff team won't get much better or that David Hale who was a + per game in college won't translate his game to the pro level? We also have DeMarchi who is in the mold of Daneyko and when he plays this year, Albany seems to win more. The link is there, go through all the game threads if you want.

While the new edition to the NYR clearly leaves alot to be desired as far as his posting goes no one poster beats his own teams drum louder than you do Jason.

You are by far the most biased poster on HF since Fish on the Sand was putting up all the homer nonsense about Montreal. :shakehead

Even with all your bias can you tell me at this point you wouldn't prefer the NYR prospects to the NJD's? :dunno:

Not like I don't know what your answer will be but just to amuse myself.
Rangers prospects are better. I will be the first or second to say it. That doesn't mean NJ's system is depleated to the extent that many of you suggest. The main reason your system is better is because it is stronger in area's that champions are born. You have three capable star goaltenders and a strong defense group led by Tyutin. Up front I would take NJ's prospects though.

Plus your damn right I toot my horn about Devils prospects. I love to toot it when I'm right too, which seems to be enough to be respected among many on this site.

Oh my God. JR9 and me on the same side. See. I feel the love in this room now.

I can't tell you how many so called "expert" Devil fans were ripping Elias before the 2003 playoffs. I always felt he was a great, clutch, player. I know so many Devil guru fans who wanted to move him. You must excuse me if I don't take what Devil fans say too seriously.

Oh my God. JR9 and me on the same side. See. I feel the love in this room now.

I can't tell you how many so called "expert" Devil fans were ripping Elias before the 2003 playoffs. I always felt he was a great, clutch, player. I know so many Devil guru fans who wanted to move him. You must excuse me if I don't take what Devil fans say too seriously.
Elias in 2002 and 2003 was crying and whining about everything possible, for some reason in 2004 he finally grew up and accepted the fact that he had to play defense and play stronger on the puck. Once he did that he started to have success. If you think Gomez and Gionta had no part in it then you are mistaken.
Yes I was one of the people that wanted Elias gone at that point.

Oh my God. JR9 and me on the same side. See. I feel the love in this room now.

I can't tell you how many so called "expert" Devil fans were ripping Elias before the 2003 playoffs. I always felt he was a great, clutch, player. I know so many Devil guru fans who wanted to move him. You must excuse me if I don't take what Devil fans say too seriously.

I guess you didn't read the 1st line of my post. :p:

Don't go grouping yourself in w/other NYR fans when posting b/c as you will see here everybody has different opinions on pretty much everything.

On the flip side why would you group all Devil fans together as you did in that last post.Just b/c some idiots you know wanted to dump Elias that's hardly an excuse to discard what some of the Dev fans here have to say and I can tell you right now a good number of them know the game a hell of alot better then you do.

Please JR. I did read your first line but ignored it since you spew hatred all the time. If you think Devil fans know the game then there isn't much hope for you. The Devils probably have the dumbest fan base in all of sports. You also shouldn't go tooting your own horn considering how some of your predictions have turned out.

Please JR. I did read your first line but ignored it since you spew hatred all the time. If you think Devil fans know the game then there isn't much hope for you. The Devils probably have the dumbest fan base in all of sports. You also shouldn't go tooting your own horn considering how some of your predictions have turned out.

Wow. Talk about a lack of respect. Trust me, those of us on the Devils board here at HF know the game and we know it well.

I think you probably just lost all credibility you had, not only with Devils fans but with your fellow Rangers fans as well.

Despite the great success of the Devils since 1995, I sense their fans are angry because they know the run is over. You can't possibly tell me you expected it to last another 15 years..... It's about a core. The core is not the same without Stevens. The core is getting old. The farm system is not producing tough, big, playoff type players.

This is a fact.

And what predictions would that be?

Your quickly establishing yourself here with all your nonsense.

How can you group ANY teams fans together in such a way? :dunno:

Take each person's post as they come.Grouping EVERYBODY together as one is nothing short of retarded.

Kind of like how I'd never want other teams posters to group all us NYR fans together based on your "opinions" to put it nicely. :amazed:

Despite the great success of the Devils since 1995, I sense their fans are angry because they know the run is over. You can't possibly tell me you expected it to last another 15 years..... It's about a core. The core is not the same without Stevens. The core is getting old. The farm system is not producing tough, big, playoff type players.

This is a fact.

That is the same thing people have been saying for years. After 1996, it was over. After 2001, it was over. In 2002, it was over. It's always over, and yet, it never ends. The first season of Lou Lamoriello, his FIRST season in NJ, we beat you out for a playoff spot and went to the conference finals. That was without Brodeur, Stevens, and Niedermayer.

Face it. As long as Lou Lamoriello is the GM of the New Jersey Devils, we'll be a contender. After he goes, I can't guarantee that. But as long as he's in the Swamp, there's a chance the Cup will be too.

Despite the great success of the Devils since 1995, I sense their fans are angry because they know the run is over. You can't possibly tell me you expected it to last another 15 years..... It's about a core. The core is not the same without Stevens. The core is getting old. The farm system is not producing tough, big, playoff type players.

This is a fact.

Wow!!!

Do you mean after a DECADE long run and 3 F'in Cups a team may actually start to enter a downcycle having spent a good portion of their young assets to maintain the success of that run??? :dunno:

Forgive me, I must have had you all wrong!!

Who knew you possesed such insight?? :lol

JR get's the last word.

:thumbd: <--- troll-feeding.