FINAL RESULTS: Greatest Leader

This weekend's question, who was the greatest leader of our generation. Since I'm submitting the names, I will use guys that I have seen play myself... This is the guy you want addressing the troops and leading them on the ice in game 7. Let's have your write ins, too.

Modano is no more deserving of a poll entry than Peca.

(Except for Hull's foot in the crease of a non-goal in OT of Game 6.)

I vote OTHER.

Modano is no more deserving of a poll entry than Peca.

(Except for Hull's foot in the crease of a non-goal in OT of Game 6.)

I vote OTHER.


I agree with that, I was trying to be a big boy by posting the name of my LEAST FAVORITE player. I am, however a big fan of his fantastic giant poodle Anastasia Priscilla, the $400 doggie food consumer. ;)

Ron "Saint" Francis

Yzerman a close second.

Torn between Yzerman and Sakic. Both Beliveau type leaders. Honourable mention to Messier who has a somewhat different style.

Scott Stevens.

alfredsson? are you kidding me? what has he done to be mentioned with names like messier and yzerman? the guy hasnt won anything in his life and didnt LEAD his team to anything either. mess has 5 or 6 cups and yzerman playing with a broken knee in the playoffs proves that it goes to one of them. alfredsson? ha ha !!!

Am I the only one that thinks Messier is overrated as a leader ???

Am I the only one that thinks Messier is overrated as a leader ???

In my own little world, Mark Messier retired in 1991, having accomplished everything possible as a leader and lives there as an Oiler forever. To me, all that guaranteed win in 94 stuff has been so overdone that it has cast a shadow over the rest of his career by overdoing the legend. But Mark Messier from 84 to 91, that was a leader.

Am I the only one that thinks Messier is overrated as a leader ???

Hell no.

I see him more as a senile old fool than a great leader anymore.

In the 80s he was legendary as a leader, but today...hardly.

Hell no.

I see him more as a senile old fool than a great leader anymore.

In the 80s he was legendary as a leader, but today...hardly.

Hence the poll asks for "overall" leadership, best individual leader of the past 15-20 years, not "current" leadership.

Am I the only one that thinks Messier is overrated as a leader ???

Messier has suffered through a bad decade that has hurt his image for a lot of people. His missing the playoffs over the last seven years reflects badly on him, but wouldn't enter anyone's thoughts if it had happened early in his career. Messier has missed the playoffs 8 times in his 25 year career. In his 17 playoff appearances, his team has lost in the first round only 3 times, and only 1 of them was an upset.

Yzerman on the other hand has missed the playoffs twice in 21 years, but his teams have lost 7 times in the first round, and 4 of those were upsets.

Which reflects worse on their leadership?

Messier has suffered through a bad decade that has hurt his image for a lot of people. His missing the playoffs over the last seven years reflects badly on him, but wouldn't enter anyone's thoughts if it had happened early in his career. Messier has missed the playoffs 8 times in his 25 year career. In his 17 playoff appearances, his team has lost in the first round only 3 times, and only 1 of them was an upset.

Yzerman on the other hand has missed the playoffs twice in 21 years, but his teams have lost 7 times in the first round, and 4 of those were upsets.

Which reflects worse on their leadership?

I'm not saying that Messier was a bad leader, but his guarantee and the NY media have made him out to be the best leader in the history of sports, which I think is greatly overstated.

IMO Messier is certainly no better than Stevens, Yzerman, Clarke, Gretzky and Potvin (the Isles captain, not Trottier)

I'm not saying that Messier was a bad leader, but his guarantee and the NY media have made him out to be the best leader in the history of sports, which I think is greatly overstated.

IMO Messier is certainly no better than Stevens, Yzerman, Clarke, Gretzky and Potvin (the Isles captain, not Trottier)
Messier was a "great" leader before going to NY, so the over-rating of his guarantee isn't all he's highly rated for. Messier is hardly the only player who's had exploits overblown.

Messier was a "great" leader before going to NY, so the over-rating of his guarantee isn't all he's highly rated for. Messier is hardly the only player who's had exploits overblown.

I agree that Mess isn't the only overrated player.

Mess was a big time leader in Edmonton; although I think he gets too much credit for the time while Gretzky was there.

Just because Gretzky wasn't the rah, rah guy that Mess is, doesn't mean that he wasn't the leader of the team.

I'll agree that Messier is overrated as a leader, so my vote goes to Ray Bourque for his years of consistent leadership in Boston.

Jean Beliveau

Am I the only one that thinks Messier is overrated as a leader ???

No, you are not. I've never been convinced he's done much as a "leader". Gretzky was EASILY the backbone and leader of the Oilers teams when Mess won 4 of his 6 Cups, and what has he done since 1994? Nothing, except NOT get his teams to the playoffs! Some leader!

Yzerman is the best one here. Fiery when he has to be, outstanding team man, hardest working player on the list, at one time the 3rd best player in the NHL (1988-1994), did what was best for the team and quit scoring at a ridiculous rate, learned to win faceoffs and play better defense, and won 3 Cups in 6 years! There you go.

I like Ron Francis, but never thought of him as a "leader". Just a very good player for a long time.

Jean Beliveau

Beliveau would be my pick but I don't think he's in Bring Back Bucky's "generation" as stated in the first post. I voted for Yzerman.

Alfredsson :lol:

No, you are not. I've never been convinced he's done much as a "leader". Gretzky was EASILY the backbone and leader of the Oilers teams when Mess won 4 of his 6 Cups, and what has he done since 1994? Nothing, except NOT get his teams to the playoffs! Some leader!

Yzerman is the best one here. Fiery when he has to be, outstanding team man, hardest working player on the list, at one time the 3rd best player in the NHL (1988-1994), did what was best for the team and quit scoring at a ridiculous rate, learned to win faceoffs and play better defense, and won 3 Cups in 6 years! There you go.

I like Ron Francis, but never thought of him as a "leader". Just a very good player for a long time.

A post in which I agree on all 3 points :handclap:

As you said Messier was always 2nd to Gretzky. In 1994, Leetch was the true leader on the ice along with Richter. Messier finishes a distant 3rd there, despite his game 6 heroics against NJ.

Yzerman, a proven winner. I'll always remember him playing with that bad knee. No, he wasn't a scoring machine like in the old days but he still chipped in. His faceoff work was great and he was solid in his own end. Remember him being knocked down and grimacing when he got up? That's a leader.

I wonder if in 5-10 years we'll be talking about Jarome Iginla like this. I sort of see him as a young Stevie Y. He scores, hits, fights, plays good D and is a good face in the community.

Was Daniel Alfredsson included in this class as a sick joke, or what? lol

Bourque. He consistently showed that he was the best leader in many years. He never won a Cup in Boston, but being a leader has nothing to do with the championships, but it has to do with how you work with your teammates, and how you inspire them. A leader can't be the one responsible for not winning a Cup, that's up to the whole team. That's what happened in Boston, but Bourque was the leader for so many years, and he was respected by everyone in the league.

He never let his anger take control of him, he never bad mouthed other players, but he showed everyone on the Bruins that someone in every group is a true leader, and Bourque was the true leader of the Bruins for 20 years.

Alfredsson :lol:

How about Jagr? :joker:

I like Ron Francis, but never thought of him as a "leader". Just a very good player for a long time.

Ronny was a good enough leader to push Mario to an alternate.

That should speak volumes right there.

But, like basically everything that Ronny did, it seems only Penguins, Whalers, and Hurricane fans will understand just how good he really was.

I do agree that Stevey Y is, at worst, the second best captain in the game though. I have Yzerman and Francis as 1a and 1b, but I voted for Francis to give him so love in the poll.

Beliveau ! :yo:

Bob Gainey?

In my own little world, Mark Messier retired in 1991, having accomplished everything possible as a leader and lives there as an Oiler forever. To me, all that guaranteed win in 94 stuff has been so overdone that it has cast a shadow over the rest of his career by overdoing the legend. But Mark Messier from 84 to 91, that was a leader.

Common man, with Messier as the leader in 94 they would've beaten a team full of Jesus'.

I still vote Yzerman as Messier's credibility as a leader has slipped a bit in the past few years. BTW, no Ted Kennedy, Jean Beliveau, or Bob Gainey?

Bourque. He consistently showed that he was the best leader in many years. He never won a Cup in Boston, but being a leader has nothing to do with the championships, but it has to do with how you work with your teammates, and how you inspire them. A leader can't be the one responsible for not winning a Cup, that's up to the whole team. That's what happened in Boston, but Bourque was the leader for so many years, and he was respected by everyone in the league.

He never let his anger take control of him, he never bad mouthed other players, but he showed everyone on the Bruins that someone in every group is a true leader, and Bourque was the true leader of the Bruins for 20 years.

Great points. Exactly why Bourque is my favourite player ever but I believe that the same can be said about Yzerman plus he lead his team to two cups(oh and a third eventually).

Common man, with Messier as the leader in 94 they would've beaten a team full of Jesus'.

I still vote Yzerman as Messier's credibility as a leader has slipped a bit in the past few years. BTW, no Ted Kennedy, Jean Beliveau, or Bob Gainey?


You're not understanding my point about Messier. I'm not diminishing his leadership in 94, I'M SAYING THE REST OF THE WORLD TAKES IT TOO SERIOUSLY. The media created a deity out of him, and I think it was a discredit to the man that they did so...

As i stated in the opening post, I included only those I saw play, So Kennedy and Beliveau are outside the range.

2 good reasons for no Bob Gainey

1) when I think of habs leadership in my lifetime, I think Larry Robinson. Being a defensive forward doesn't automatically qualify you as a leader.

2) at an exhibition game in Halifax at or about 1981, he promised me and my friend Spaz, along with about 10 other kids that he would sign our autographs at intermission. Then he bolted for the dressing room with 30 seconds left in the period. Me and Spaz gave chase to the bum and got his signature. That probably still means a lot to Spaz cause he's a pretty devoted long-term Habs fan. For me, it was the start of a grudge, and I can be pretty stubborn about a grudge. ;)

I guess I took the Messier post wrongly then. Sorry I guess.

I guess I took the Messier post wrongly then. Sorry I guess.

No need to apologize, I have that dementia which strikes only Oiler fans, so it makes my opinion

a) rambling and emotional
B) hard to understand
C) Incoherent, mixed with intermittent tears and rage
D) All of the above. ;)

Torn between Yzerman and Sakic. .
Why are u so torn? Yzerman is a good option, but, I wouldnt put sakic no where near or past Messier or even Yzerman.The closest thing to Messier is Scott Stevens. And he is right behind Messier and not by far.

Messier is the best leader of all time, its really the only right answer.The guy can score(goals and assists) plays a defensive game along with an offensive game, he hits, plays aggressive, fights, sticks up for teammates.The guy does it all. Unlike all the others.Not that they all are not good leaders but there not GREAT like Messier is or was.He is a bit old and is not what he used to be but he has done more than enough.

Messier is the best leader of all time, its really the only right answer.The guy can score(goals and assists) plays a defensive game along with an offensive game, he hits, plays aggressive, fights, sticks up for teammates.The guy does it all. Unlike all the others.Not that they all are not good leaders but there not GREAT like Messier is or was.He is a bit old and is not what he used to be but he has done more than enough.

#1. Messier has never been a good defensive player, and at times is downright horrid. Even as he got older he didn't make the transition to becoming more of a defensive player.

#2. 7 straight non-playoff seasons has to count for something.

#1. Messier has never been a good defensive player, and at times is downright horrid. Even as he got older he didn't make the transition to becoming more of a defensive player.

#2. 7 straight non-playoff seasons has to count for something.

#1- Ok you could be very right and i wont argue with that. I also think he is not as bad as you make him out to be on the "D" side of things.You make him sound horrid.

#2 -So what u are saying is because he didnt make the playoffs for 7 years means he loses ground as a leader. If so then I think you got me slightly confused.As a hockey fan you should know that hockey is a team sport and if everyone dont contribute the team goes no where.Messier can only do so much and its not fair to put 7 years of no playoffs all on his back ( take into consideration team mgmt, players and chemistry) .If this was Baseball or Basketball then it would be a little different. But hockey is one of the only sports where you need everyone to contribute to win.And a team like the Devils is a great example, as for when a whole team contributes how far you can go.

#2 -So what u are saying is because he didnt make the playoffs for 7 years means he loses ground as a leader. If so then I think you got me slightly confused.As a hockey fan you should know that hockey is a team sport and if everyone dont contribute the team goes no where.Messier can only do so much and its not fair to put 7 years of no playoffs all on his back ( take into consideration team mgmt, players and chemistry) .If this was Baseball or Basketball then it would be a little different. But hockey is one of the only sports where you need everyone to contribute to win.And a team like the Devils is a great example, as for when a whole team contributes how far you can go.

I'm not saying it's all Messier's fault that his teams haven't made the playoffs in 7 years, but that does have to be brought up in the conversation.

That has never happened to any of the other top leaders on this list: Clarke, Stevens, and Yzerman.

If Messier was put on a typical average team the those years that was a bubble team he would played a MASSIVE part in getting them into the playoffs. However, when you're 40, and you're surounded by 33 year old players that picked money over hockey it makes it pretty damned tough. Yzerman on the Rangers wouldn't have got them to the playoffs. Same with Francis, Stevens, etc.

As said before, none of these guys have had comparable success. And, no, Messier was not some ride-along #2 to Gretzky. It was the Mooses dressing room. He's the one that said something when it needed to be said. Gretz was one of those lead by example guys - which, IMO, isn't what this thread is looking for, otherwise we'd just be having a top player of all time discussion.

Cold day in Hell Yzerman or Francis would absolutely murder somebody with an elbow putting the fear of god into the opposition. Cold day in Hell does Stevens play as one of the top 3-4 offensive players in the game.

You gotta go for Lemieux on this one... look at the 91 and 92 penguins.. he turned Kevin Stevens into a 100 point man and gave Rob Brown an 80 point season. Not to discredit anyone on the list but who played alongside Yzerman.. The Redwings are a bonafide dynasty.

If Messier was put on a typical average team the those years that was a bubble team he would played a MASSIVE part in getting them into the playoffs. However, when you're 40, and you're surounded by 33 year old players that picked money over hockey it makes it pretty damned tough. Yzerman on the Rangers wouldn't have got them to the playoffs. Same with Francis, Stevens, etc.


Don't give me the BS that Messier has played on horrid teams for the past 7 years, he was a big contributer, to those teams not making the playoffs.

Messier was surrounded with some very real talent in Vancouver: Bure, Mogilny, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Ohlund, Linden, McCabe, Lumme, Scatchard, Aucoin, Morrison, Cassels, Jovanovski.

Messier leaves and they make they've made the playoffs every year since. His Canucks team had talent.


As said before, none of these guys have had comparable success. And, no, Messier was not some ride-along #2 to Gretzky. It was the Mooses dressing room. He's the one that said something when it needed to be said. Gretz was one of those lead by example guys - which, IMO, isn't what this thread is looking for, otherwise we'd just be having a top player of all time discussion.

It doesn't matter how you lead, just that you do it. Leadership doesn't have to be yelling and screaming. Leadership is being a professional, setting the right example, and by leading the team on the ice.

Messier was more vocal than Gretzky in the locker room, but it was still Gretzky's team without a doubt.


Cold day in Hell Yzerman or Francis would absolutely murder somebody with an elbow putting the fear of god into the opposition. Cold day in Hell does Stevens play as one of the top 3-4 offensive players in the game.

when was the last time Messier put the fear of god into an opponent ??? 7 years, 10 years ago ???

The difference is that as Yzerman and Stevens got older, they changed their games. While not the offensive players they once were, they changed so that they could still be very important players on a winning hockey team.

Messier has never changed his game. He's still offense first and to stubborn to change.

Cold day in Hell Yzerman or Francis would absolutely murder somebody with an elbow putting the fear of god into the opposition. .

Not to discredit what you're saying, but personally I would not be motivated by that type of leadership as much as the Beliveau/Yzerman/Sakic style.

Beliveau would of been my choice if he was listed, but out of the names on the list I'll go with Gretzky. He is seriously underrated when it comes to leadership. He was a great leader for the Oilers, a great leader for the Kings (ask any player on the '92-'93 Kings Stanley Cup final team), was always a great leader for Canada in numerous tournaments as a player and as a GM.

Beliveau, then Yzerman and Sakic.

Well, the poll is closed, and the results have been counted.

Messier, not suprisingly was your first choice, with Yzerman getting lots of love, too. Beliveau was identified by some older posters. Many posters seemed to feel highly about Sakic, but as a "second-choicer", and he received no love.

Mike Modano, sadly, was no one's choice. Anastasia-Priscilla, his fabulous giant poodle is said to be petitioning the poll scrutineers about some irregularities in which glamorous, well-fed and pampered pooches were not allowed to vote.

Updates to follow........

Lemieux?

How come nobody has even mentioned Guy Lafleur?

The guy was just an amazing leader as he always made the play that lead to the important goal or scored himself in key situations whether it was game 7 in overtime or game 4 when the Canadiens were on the verge of a sweep he was the man. I saw in the hall of fame video a journalist from MTL say that Pierre Bouchard who played with the habs around that time, once said to him that we had all the great players on our team with the Lemaire and the Shutts and the Lapointes, Robinsons, Savards, Cournoyers, Gaineys but when it was an important stanley cup final game we looked around at each other and said "Thank god we have Lafleur". I think that sais it all not to mention his amazing talent, the excitment that he brought to his game and the number of future hhof-ers that he inspired especially Lemieux and Gretzky.

Sakic got no votes!!!! :eek:

Even Afredsson got a vote :(

Messier's last stint with the Rag$ IMO spoils his image as a good leader. If Saku could take the mediocre habs to the playoffs... no doubt a guy like Mark should be able to put at least a couple of the pieces together on the rag$ and take them to the playoffs...