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big_steve 11-10-2004, 03:49 PM Let's say that Valery Kharlamov makes it into the NHL at the age of 21 probably and goes on to have a full career in the NHL. Where do you think he would rank among the all-time greats. You can also consider Vladislav Tretiak, Vladimir Krutov, Sergei Makarov(full career now), Alexander Yakushev, or anyone else you would like to include. I give a little top 5 including only Kharlamov.
Also, guys you can consider what team, they would've been drafted in to, rivalries that he would have, etc.
My List:
1. Bobby Orr
2. Valery Kharlamov
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Gordie Howe
Luigi Lemieux 11-10-2004, 05:03 PM Let's say that Valery Kharlamov makes it into the NHL at the age of 21 probably and goes on to have a full career in the NHL. Where do you think he would rank among the all-time greats. You can also consider Vladislav Tretiak, Vladimir Krutov, Sergei Makarov(full career now), Alexander Yakushev, or anyone else you would like to include. I give a little top 5 including only Kharlamov.
Also, guys you can consider what team, they would've been drafted in to, rivalries that he would have, etc.
My List:
1. Bobby Orr
2. Valery Kharlamov
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Gordie Howe
never seen kharlamov play, but was he really better than gretzky and lemieux? if so, i must get a hold of some tapes of this guy.
Crosbyfan 11-10-2004, 05:18 PM Let's say that Valery Kharlamov makes it into the NHL at the age of 21 probably and goes on to have a full career in the NHL. Where do you think he would rank among the all-time greats. You can also consider Vladislav Tretiak, Vladimir Krutov, Sergei Makarov(full career now), Alexander Yakushev, or anyone else you would like to include. I give a little top 5 including only Kharlamov.
Also, guys you can consider what team, they would've been drafted in to, rivalries that he would have, etc.
My List:
1. Bobby Orr
2. Valery Kharlamov
3. Wayne Gretzky
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Gordie Howe
If I remember correctly Kharmalov and Howe played against each other in '74 in the WHA Canada / Soviet series. Both were near the top in scoring. I think they each had 7 points in the eight games. Of course Gordie was just starting to hit his prime. ;)
Doomsday Device 11-10-2004, 06:09 PM Well, this how he did statistically in the two international tournaments he played against NHL players.
1972 Summit Series
Phil Esposito CAN 8 7 6 13
Alexander Yakushev USSR 8 7 4 11
Paul Henderson CAN 8 7 3 10
Vladimir Shadrin USSR 8 3 5 8
Valeri Kharlamov USSR 7 3 4 7
Vladimir Petrov USSR 8 3 4 7
Yuri Liapkin USSR 6 1 5 6
Bobby Clarke CAN 8 2 4 6
Yvan Cournoyer CAN 8 3 2 5
Boris Mikhailov USSR 8 3 2 5
Brad Park CAN 8 1 4 5
Alexander Maltsev USSR 8 0 5 5
1974 Summit Series
Bobby Hull CAN 8 7 2 9
Alexander Yakushev USSR 7 5 3 8
Ralph Backstrom CAN 8 4 4 8
Gordie Howe CAN 7 3 4 7
Valeri Kharlamov USSR 8 2 5 7
André Lacroix CAN 8 1 6 7
Vladimir Petrov USSR 7 1 6 7
Boris Mikhailov USSR 7 4 2 6
Mark Howe CAN 7 2 4 6
John McKenzie CAN 7 2 3 5
Jean-Claude Tremblay CAN 8 1 4 5
Alexander Maltsev USSR 8 4 0 4
Alexander Gusev USSR 8 3 1 4
Valeri Vasiliev USSR 7 3 1 4
Vyacheslav Anisin USSR 8 2 2 4
Lard_Lad 11-10-2004, 10:38 PM Saying he'd have been #2 alltime seriously overrates Kharlamov. He was a great player, but on the Lafleur-Hull-Bossy level. Not the Orr-Gretzky-Lemieux one.
Macman 11-11-2004, 11:54 AM Saying he'd have been #2 alltime seriously overrates Kharlamov. He was a great player, but on the Lafleur-Hull-Bossy level. Not the Orr-Gretzky-Lemieux one.
Exactly right.
big_steve 11-11-2004, 01:05 PM Yeah I did overrate him. He's a great player but not top 5 or even top 10 all-time. Sorry.
Epsilon 11-11-2004, 02:43 PM Yeah I did overrate him. He's a great player but not top 5 or even top 10 all-time. Sorry.
He's possibly in the lower half of the all-time top 10. Definitely top 20.
He was a small speedy guy somewhat like Cournoyer, so start with him as your base model. He's better than Cournoyer but he'll also have a lot more "issues" to deal with.
21 would have brought him over in 69, so say 69-70 season for his rookie year. Which team he plays for will make a huge difference in his career.
Come 72 we have the question of the WHA. If he's playing on a winner, he'd probably stay, but if he's on the Seals...
Crosbyfan 11-11-2004, 03:34 PM He was a small speedy guy somewhat like Cournoyer, so start with him as your base model. He's better than Cournoyer but he'll also have a lot more "issues" to deal with.
21 would have brought him over in 69, so say 69-70 season for his rookie year. Which team he plays for will make a huge difference in his career.
Come 72 we have the question of the WHA. If he's playing on a winner, he'd probably stay, but if he's on the Seals...
...and had to wear those skates!!
Big Phil 11-12-2004, 03:04 PM Its hard to measure how good he'd be. If he isnt already considered the greatest Russian player of all time then he would be by playing a full career.
kruezer 11-14-2004, 06:05 AM How about Yakushev? I always thought he was incredibly underrated, I don't think I'd consider him quite as good as Kharlamov, but really I don't see him as all that much worse, I've only watched him on tapes of '72 of course, but he should really get more respect, seemed like a great individual talent to me, in '72 it seemed like he rarely played with Kharlamov as well, I'd say he got along better without him, it let him control the puck more, which I was continually amazed at his skill at.
Was he as good as Espo? Seemed like it to me, but its a small sample size.
Fighter 11-14-2004, 09:57 AM Gretzky
Kharlamov
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Anyone else.
These five are the best of the best ever. All had different roles, different styles and different times. It's difficult to compare Wayne with Mario, nearly impossible to compare a NHL player with the Soviet best player of all times.
As for talent and skills Valery was up with them though.
mazmin 11-14-2004, 12:28 PM Gretzky
Kharlamov
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Anyone else.
These five are the best of the best ever. All had different roles, different styles and different times. It's difficult to compare Wayne with Mario, nearly impossible to compare a NHL player with the Soviet best player of all times.
As for talent and skills Valery was up with them though.
If you're talking different times than you'd have to consider guys like Howie Morenz and Joe "Phantom" Malone.
As for Kharlamov in the NHL, if he was indeed the best Russian players of all time, I bet he'd score on pace with someone like Esposito, so pretty much top of the league for his time.
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