Cincy/Philadelphia 11/7/04

Sunday, November 7 at Philadelphia, 5:05 p.m.
Radio: None
Internet: SportsJuice.com
Announcer: Don Helbig

3-1 loss. http://www.theahl.com/SlamScoreboard/ahl-frameset.html

Joel Perrault with the only Duck goal(powerplay). Assists to Brookbank and Lupul.

lots of pims in this one: Including Stan Chistov dropping the gloves!!! :eek:

Philadelphia - Ryan Ready - (Instigator), 2 min, 1:06
Philadelphia - Ryan Ready - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 1:06
Philadelphia - Ryan Ready - (Fighting (Instigator) Misconduct), 10 min, 1:06
Cincinnati - Aaron Rome - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 1:06

Cincinnati - Sheldon Brookbank - (Elbowing), 2 min, 14:32
Cincinnati - Sheldon Brookbank - (Roughing), 2 min, 14:32
Cincinnati - Sheldon Brookbank - (Misconduct Misconduct), 10 min, 14:32
Philadelphia - Riley Cote - (Instigator), 2 min, 14:32
Philadelphia - Riley Cote - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 14:32
Philadelphia - Riley Cote - (Fighting (Instigator) Misconduct), 10 min, 14:32
Cincinnati - Sean OConnor - (Third Man In Game Misconduct) (13(c)), 10 min, 14:32
Cincinnati - Dustin Penner - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 14:32
Philadelphia - Wade Skolney - (Boarding Major), 5 min, 14:32
Philadelphia - Wade Skolney - (Game Misconduct Game Misconduct) (), 10 min, 14:32

Philadelphia - Ben Eager - (Unsportsmanlike Conduct), 2 min, 17:12
Philadelphia - Ben Eager - (Roughing), 2 min, 17:12
Philadelphia - Ben Eager - (Roughing), 2 min, 17:12
Cincinnati - Kurtis Foster - (Roughing), 2 min, 17:12
Cincinnati - Tomas Malec - (Spearing Double Minor), 4 min, 17:12
Cincinnati - Stanislav Chistov - (High Sticking), 2 min, 18:47
Cincinnati - Stanislav Chistov - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 18:47
Philadelphia - Mark Murphy - (Roughing), 2 min, 18:47
Cincinnati - Shane OBrien - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 18:47
Cincinnati - Shane OBrien - (Fighting (Secondary) Game Misconduct) (56(f)), 10 min, 18:47
Philadelphia - Ryan Ready - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 18:47
Philadelphia - Ryan Ready - (Fighting (Secondary) Game Misconduct) (56(f)), 10 min, 18:47
Philadelphia - Patrick Sharp - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 18:47
Philadelphia - Josh Gratton - (Instigator), 2 min, 19:46
Philadelphia - Josh Gratton - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 19:46
Philadelphia - Josh Gratton - (Fighting (Instigator) Misconduct), 10 min, 19:46
Cincinnati - Zenon Konopka - (Roughing), 2 min, 19:46
Cincinnati - Zenon Konopka - (Roughing), 2 min, 19:46
Cincinnati - Aaron Rome - (Fighting Major), 5 min, 19:46
Philadelphia - Jeff Smith - (Roughing), 2 min, 19:46
Philadelphia - Jeff Smith - (Roughing), 2 min, 19:46

anyone know how Chistov won in the fight? I know that he has shown at the NHl level he isn't afraid to take on the more intimidating opponents and wouldn't that be cool if when the Nhl starts if he has got more of a mean streak to go along with Getzlaf's style of play and Perry's? You know what? I still don't know if I would put Chistov in the lineup when the Nhl starts? Who else is with me on that? I mean, his first season he showed promise. But then again, he played along side a sniper like Thomas. Put him next to a sniper (Wing, not center like Federov) like Heatley and he would probably do better. As much as I would hate to lose a Duck, I would like to see Chistov go to somewhere like Atlanta. I want to see Chistov have the best career possible and I think going somewhere like Atlanta, in another Conference, would really make Chistov into an All-star caliber player, especially playing with arguable "two" of the best players in the league. Chistov would probably put up 20 goals. I just don't see Anaheim as for him. Anaheim needs a player that will play even when the game is boring. It seems Chistov only plays when the game has a little spice to it, like when it is against a rivalry or something. But I see Anaheim doing better by going with a player like Glencross, who would be awesome. Then again, Glencross and Chistov on the same line would be pretty sweet. Now, There are only 9 spots for the top 3 lines of forwards. Who would you guys put to be on the top 3 lines? Also, you know what I think they should do? I think the Ducks should put Federov and Ruchin on the same line. I really don't care if Ruchin has never played wing before. By the time the team starts playing again, the team will want a faster center anyways, to go along with Federov's speed. Pahlsson is pretty fast, but Andy McDonald could always be an option (would have to have a career year), or Getzlaf could probably easily take the place of Ruchin. I say this because there was a time last year where Ruchin and Federov were on the same line (it might have been 4 on 4 situation), but let me tell you, that line was awesome. I remember noticing how when Federov seemed to play so much better with Ruchin on the line. It is almost like how he would play if he was on Yserman's line in Detroit. Anyways, here is the list of players. Who would you take for top 9?

1. Federov
2. Ruchin
3. Sykora
4. Niedermeyer
5.Leclerc
6. Lupul
7.Pahlsson
8.Chistov
9.Glencross
10.Getzlaf
11.Perry
12.McDonald Note: All 12 are top 9 material, so what 3 would you leave out of the lineup?

As for me, I would leave the following off the roster: Leclerc, Chistov, McDonald
I know this might be shocking for a lot of people. But lets look at it this way. If you could choose between these two lines as of which you would be more scared to play against, which would you choose?

-Leclerc -McDonald -Chistov

or

-Glencross -Getzlaf -Perry (I'd say that as a third line, I would pick the first one if it were not for the fact that Leclerc's knees are un-reliable. And, McDonald is concussion-prone. Plus, Chistov doesn't seem to always give the best effort. Glencross would do the dirty work in the corners, Getzlaf would be the set-up guy, and Perry would be the scorer. Glencross would also be scoring lots of goals too. I think that if they could be the FIRST LINE for the rookie tournament, then they could defintely be the THIRD LINE for the actual team.

lots of pims in this one: Including Stan Chistov dropping the gloves!!!

Kids frustrated, I feel bad for him.

“Once you start winning, its like a disease and you don’t want to lose again.” - Ducks center Zenon Konopka.

They must be having withdrawls... :banghead: :banana:

http://www.phantomshockey.com/media_Sights/gamedayNEW.asp?Season=2004&CalID=2752

Clips of 3 of the fights. The first Ryan Ready fight was due to a hit put on Sharp. In the brawl, the Phantoms involved are Cote (who gets jumped by a 3rd man in) and Skolney who put the original check on.

Chistov ends up challenging a tied up Sharp. Sharp breaks off with his original man and they both go buckets off. Neither really land anything, but Sharp throws a few. Chistov threw a couple but it's obvious he isn't very experienced. Sharp, while not exactly a fighter, got into a few scraps last year because the Flyers organization told Sharp he'd have a better chance to make it to the NHL if he developed a physical game. He's been in a total of 6 fights in his life because he was a college player, so he has experience and obviously knows what he's doing better Chistov, but he's a good matchup for a nonfighter to gain experience.

Great too see Chistov show some aggression like that even taking off his lid. :handclap:

Rome as well

Atta boy Chistov: showed more guts than many other NHLers of the big club.
Chistov challenges Sharp, take his helmet off and shoves him, then Sharp land one or two punches, but Stan throw one that land and they both fall down and Cheesy throw another couple of punches. I would call it a solid draw and a gooooood showing by a game Chistov. :yo:

In all this Lupul watch the scraps without dropping or even keeping any Phantom player. WTF? Is he a man only with the power players?

At least the Cincy BabyDucks stick up for eachother unlike the Anaheim Ducks.

O'Connor jumping into the other fight was pretty cool.

In all this Lupul watch the scraps without dropping or even keeping any Phantom player. WTF? Is he a man only with the power players?

I noticed this too...I'm starting to become less of a fan of Lupul now...

I noticed when i was in Cincinnati for the first few home games ...that Lupul looked disgusted with all the fighting...
Also he didnt even watch a few of the fights and proceeded to shake his head and talk to another player...

wonder whats up his butt... :dunno:

I am a big fan of Lupul...but his attitude is starting to gride with me...

But while he seems not to agree with the fights...he has been more physical as of late...who konws... :dunno:

I think hes more concerned with winning.

I think hes more concerned with winning.

Which clearly doesn't fit in with the philosophy of the Ducks brass.

I see him dealt for an overpriced Euro whenever the season restarts.

Well at least some of our guys show some emotion...

I think hes more concerned with winning.

...and with all the points he's scoring I don't tend to agree with you.

He was supposed to be a scoring machine in the AHL but what I see is few points, no passion and a lot of losses.

But yeah, at least he isn't a euro whimp who is afraid of fight :shakehead

I think hes more concerned with winning.


:shakehead

He cant concentrate on both?

I think hes more concerned with winning.

save that comment for when he actually starts scoring.

I think hes more concerned with winning.
:D I think he is more concerned with hot tubs. Just hope he realizes if he should get in a jam not to look for his teammates to come to his rescue.

That is one guy who needs a reality check. I guess he was out when they had the lecture on sportsmanship and teams sticking together.

I guess he was out when they had the lecture on sportsmanship and teams sticking together.

...with one of the power players...

[QUOTE=nnifeerj]I noticed when i was in Cincinnati for the first few home games ...that Lupul looked disgusted with all the fighting...
Also he didnt even watch a few of the fights and proceeded to shake his head and talk to another player...





WOW thats shamefull. If true i lost alot of respect for him :madfire:

I must admit that I don't like this fact too.
WTF? He was supposed to be a physical player (at least more than Chistov) and hopefully a power forward despite the size (like Owen Nolan), now I think he wanna become a Sykora type player, basically a sniper.
Oh well, he's in a slump anyway.

Hey Im not saying Im not disgusted with it either.

But judging from the descriptions of his reactions to fights he sounds like the type of player that sees them as an un-needed annoyance and would rather the game get started again so he can get out on the ice and score some goals/win the game.
(which I realise he hasnt been doing). I think its safe to say he isnt bonding with the team very well.

Hey Im not saying Im not disgusted with it either.

But judging from the descriptions of his reactions to fights he sounds like the type of player that sees them as an un-needed annoyance and would rather the game get started again so he can get out on the ice and score some goals/win the game.
(which I realise he hasnt been doing). I think its safe to say he isnt bonding with the team very well.



Its part of team unity to cheer your teamates on during fights and him getting annoyed goes against all that.
When he was drafted ive heard comparisons to Bill Guerin but after watching him play i dont see it.

Bill Guerin use to get pummeled all the time so I think a better comparison to him is Perry.
Another good comparison for Perry could be Keith TkaCHOKE (and I REALLY hope I'm making a mistake)

With all the leadership and PIMS he gets, I think that a good comparison to Getzlaf could be a Keith Primeau-like player with (way) better scoring abilities.

Lupul instead act more like Mario Lemieux when it comes the time to fight... (but he has only the 0,0001% of the class Mario has) Sincerly I can't think about a good comparison for Lupul now.

Lupul's a scorer.

Sorry if he doesn't feel like gooning it up. :cry: How many of you saw this horrible event unfold???

I really like O'Connor, and not just because of the fact that we have the same exact name, but because the kid seems tough....anyone know why he was cast out of Florida? Is he even in Anaheim's plan's or is he just a minor leaguer.....

Lupul's a scorer.

Sorry if he doesn't feel like gooning it up. :cry: How many of you saw this horrible event unfold???

sticking up for your teammates is not gooning it up. By now means are we asking Lupul to be a Burnett.

I really like O'Connor, and not just because of the fact that we have the same exact name, but because the kid seems tough....anyone know why he was cast out of Florida? Is he even in Anaheim's plan's or is he just a minor leaguer.....

Yeah I liked when he jumped into that fight that Penner was losing. Anyone that sticks up for his teammates like that I usually like.

Not sure why Florida gave up on him. He has a contract with ECHL San Diego, and was a tryout for Cincy of the AHL that was cut on the last day of camp. He was recalled when Brent,Smirnov and Kunitz all got injured. He isn't in Anaheim's long term plan yet as he has no contract with the organization.

sticking up for your teammates is not gooning it up. By now means are we asking Lupul to be a Burnett.
There were already a bunch of fights. Not sure how the team losing its best player for the rest of the game helps anyone.

Oh wait, I know...togetherness. The goon squad down there hasn't kept the baby Ducks from being mediocre as usual.

There were already a bunch of fights. Not sure how the team losing its best player for the rest of the game helps anyone.

.

There were 14 seconds left in a 3-1 game where nothing was going right for the Ducks and his fellow first line skilled player Chistov drops the gloves...if Lupul was ever going to show some balls that would be the right time.

Unless you think he was supposed to score 2 goals in the last 14 seconds?

Chistov won that fight.. it's good that he's showing some balls for once.

Maybe if the rest of them started showing some balls and scoring, they might win some games.

Chistov won that fight.. it's good that he's showing some balls for once.

Maybe if the rest of them started showing some balls and scoring, they might win some games.





:amazed:

Didnt you used to be antifighting? :yo:

Chistov won that fight.. it's good that he's showing some balls for once.


For once? This is his second if not third career fight (in the minors btw). He has shown more balls in one game than Lupul in more than a year.

But I'm sure Joffrey's a bully with the power players.

For once? This is his second if not third career fight (in the minors btw). He has shown more balls in one game than Lupul in more than a year.

But I'm sure Joffrey's a bully with the power players.



:lol: :lol :lol :lol :lol

Cool! Ducks fans want to get rid of Lupul because he chose not to fight! :shakehead

Thank god none of you are GM's, or your team would be in shambles.

(Yes I know, the Bruins are pretty screwed up as well, but that's not the point :joker: )

Cool! Ducks fans want to get rid of Lupul because he chose not to fight! :shakehead

Thank god none of you are GM's, or your team would be in shambles.

(Yes I know, the Bruins are pretty screwed up as well, but that's not the point :joker: )

You are dumb. Period.
When I said I would get rid of him because he don't fight, jerk?
I just pointed out that while all the other teammates including a 5'9" russian fight, he didn't even drop his gloves to keep a phantom player out of action.
This is to me lack of heart and a selfish move. And his stats also display this fact: he's there to fire up a AHL team and score, not to goof around.

There's nothing else to do...hmm... LET'S FIGHT!!!

Chistov won that fight.

Don't mean to jump into this little Lupul bash fest, but I'm going to have to differ on that call. If by won you mean swung and missed wildly and then fell on top of Sharp, then yes he won. Neither really landed by either, but Chistov should be commended for defending himself.

Now you may continue with your bickering. :)

You are dumb. Period.
When I said I would get rid of him because he don't fight, jerk?
I just pointed out that while all the other teammates including a 5'9" russian fight, he didn't even drop his gloves to keep a phantom player out of action.
This is to me lack of heart and a selfish move. And his stats also display this fact: he's there to fire up a AHL team and score, not to goof around.
Well, some posters in here were making it such a big deal that Lupul didn't fight. Seriously, who care's about that? Just because I said what I was allowed to say, doesn't mean you should call me dumb and a jerk.

Cool! Ducks fans want to get rid of Lupul because he chose not to fight! :shakehead

Thank god none of you are GM's, or your team would be in shambles.

(Yes I know, the Bruins are pretty screwed up as well, but that's not the point :joker: )


What in the hell are you talking about? No one said to get rid of him we where questioning his toughness and the fact he turns away and rolls his eyes when his teamates are fighting. Bye Troll

Cool! Ducks fans want to get rid of Lupul because he chose not to fight! :shakehead

Thank god none of you are GM's, or your team would be in shambles.

(Yes I know, the Bruins are pretty screwed up as well, but that's not the point :joker: )

we are not demanding a trade of Lupul post lockout...but it is quite obvious Lupul has an attitude problem that extends beyond not wanting to fight...to fill you in, Lupul's highlight of last season was getting caught in a hottub with Andy McDonald and a couple of Mighty Ducks cheerleaders.

we are not demanding a trade of Lupul post lockout...but it is quite obvious Lupul has an attitude problem that extends beyond not wanting to fight...to fill you in, Lupul's highlight of last season was getting caught in a hottub with Andy McDonald and a couple of Mighty Ducks cheerleaders.Ouch....I take it not all of them were fully clothed....

we are not demanding a trade of Lupul post lockout...but it is quite obvious Lupul has an attitude problem that extends beyond not wanting to fight...to fill you in, Lupul's highlight of last season was getting caught in a hottub with Andy McDonald and a couple of Mighty Ducks cheerleaders.
Thank you for your response. ;)

What in the hell are you talking about? No one said to get rid of him we where questioning his toughness and the fact he turns away and rolls his eyes when his teamates are fighting. Bye Troll
I am no troll. I implied that some people were making too much of nothing. I didn't mean to make some of you mad. Sheesh :dunce:

:speechles It's no big deal, it would only count if you are looking for some backing from your "friends". No one wants to see a big melee, but the game is almost over and what did Lupul contribute??

All last season, Lupul seemed to be thinking of anything, anyplace but the game. If he isn't scoring goals, he needs to try to pretend to be involved with the team.

I don't think his attitude is a big boost for the rest of the team. He just plain does not seem to care. I don't care how talented a player he is, if he has no heart, he has no heart. Nothing will fix that. :madfire:

Not sure how on earth banging some professional cheerleaders became uncool, but getting your head used as a knuckle sharpener by some minor-league reject makes you cool.

Some of the fight fetish folk here are conveniently forgetting what a great rookie year Lupul had. Saying that the powerplayer thing only makes it worse (?!) just shows how absolutely out of touch with reality some people are.

Yeah, I agree. Getting into fights doesn't make you a great hockey player. Last I checked they give you goals on the scoreboard for putting the biscuit in the basket...not punching some guy.

And I give kudos to Lupul for banging a powerplay girl. If I weren't married, I wouldn't mind doing the same. :handclap:

Some of the fight fetish folk here are conveniently forgetting what a great rookie year Lupul had.

calling that a great rookie season is a bit of a reach...

Yeah, I agree. Getting into fights doesn't make you a great hockey player. Last I checked they give you goals on the scoreboard for putting the biscuit in the basket...not punching some guy.

And I give kudos to Lupul for banging a powerplay girl. If I weren't married, I wouldn't mind doing the same. :handclap:

1-no it doesn't but it's important to stick together as a team and sometimes that involves dropping the gloves and holding off one of the teams other players, im not asking him to bloody someones face.

2-no kudos for breaking team policy. Plenty of other hot girls in the OC, don't have to hook up with the ones employed by the team.

calling that a great rookie season is a bit of a reach...
No, it isn't.

1-no it doesn't but it's important to stick together as a team and sometimes that involves dropping the gloves and holding off one of the teams other players, im not asking him to bloody someones face.

I didn't see anyone getting double-teamed, did you?

2-no kudos for breaking team policy. Plenty of other hot girls in the OC, don't have to hook up with the ones employed by the team.

I never knew you were such a tool. NO BREAKING TEAM POLICY. THE COMPANY KNOWS BEST.

I'd hit those powerplayers in a second in that situation, so would you, and the policy is stupid.

I never knew you were such a tool. NO BREAKING TEAM POLICY. THE COMPANY KNOWS BEST.

I'd hit those powerplayers in a second in that situation, so would you, and the policy is stupid.

Hey I understand your anti-corporation feelings but the fact is he was getting paid 1.185 million to play hockey by the corporation, the least he can do is follow their policy.

you all are talking about Lupul's attitude off the ice...

I found him to be really nice and friendly...if not a bit shy...

He signed my jersey and took a picture with me...we chatted a bit too...
and no i dont look like a power player so thats not why he was paying attention to be...

just thought i would put in my 2 cents

Maybe if he had punched you in the face a few times we could respect him, nnifeerj.

well as long as Lupul starts scoring goals I won't complain.

but if were going to keep talking about his off ice antics, I have heard he has a bad reputation for treating the girls he dates like crap. This coming from some sorority girls at CSF.

1-no it doesn't but it's important to stick together as a team and sometimes that involves dropping the gloves and holding off one of the teams other players, im not asking him to bloody someones face.

I have to agree here, even guys like Stumpel would do this for the Kings.....

but if were going to keep talking about his off ice antics, I have heard he has a bad reputation for treating the girls he dates like crap. This coming from some sorority girls at CSF.
:lol: The ever reliable "sorority girl" source. Please. Don't believe everything you hear.

:lol: The ever reliable "sorority girl" source. Please. Don't believe everything you hear.

oh they are very reliable :D

oh they are very reliable :D
Since you're a big fan of policy, read this part of HFBoards policy:

12) Libel: Any posts libeling players, prospects, or hockey personnel. It's not acceptable to post that you heard Player X has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. A link to a credible media source must be posted to support such claims. Other forums and personal websites are not credible.

Since you're a big fan of policy, read this part of HFBoards policy:

yeah I'll get you that credible media source soon.

While I look for that media source...here is a picture of Zenon Konopka with a bottle of alcohol...

http://www.cincinnatimightyducks.com/

sorry just thought it was a funny picture...

yeah I'll get you that credible media source soon.
What, that Lupul supposedly treats dates like crap? Here's something...no credible media source gives a ****.

What, that Lupul supposedly treats dates like crap? Here's something...no credible media source gives a ****.

your taking this personally...is Lupul your buddy?

your taking this personally...is Lupul your buddy?
:lol:

The funny thing is that I can't post a rumor about an NHL player, who could care less what were typing on here, yet someone like CFOB is involved in personal attacks against other posters and no one cares.

San Diego Gulls Update:

"Brian Gornick, who spent the bulk of the past two seasons in the AHL with Cincinnati, has six points (three goals, three assists) in eight games this season"

http://www.cincinnatimightyducks.com/news/stories/ducks-cov/echl-report/echl-gulls.11.10.04.htm

I just don't buy the flawed logic that getting into a fight will bring a team together. Sometimes, yes, and I haven't seen the video of the fight with Cincinnati. Could it be that everyone is engaged and he doesn't want to be the third man in?

Like a referee told me when I was suspended for being the third man in onetime: Fights happen in hockey all the time. Just let the two guys square up and fight. It's when you step in and become the third man, then everyone then has to become involved and it can get real ugly. (I know that from personal experience.)

Granted I don't play anywhere close to NHL level, but the principles are the same.

I just don't buy the flawed logic that getting into a fight will bring a team together. Sometimes, yes, and I haven't seen the video of the fight with Cincinnati. Could it be that everyone is engaged and he doesn't want to be the third man in?

Like a referee told me when I was suspended for being the third man in onetime: Fights happen in hockey all the time. Just let the two guys square up and fight. It's when you step in and become the third man, then everyone then has to become involved and it can get real ugly. (I know that from personal experience.)

Granted I don't play anywhere close to NHL level, but the principles are the same.

http://www.phantomshockey.com/media_Sights/gamedayNEW.asp?Season=2004&CalID=2752

watch the video...it definetly wasn't about jumping in as a third man in a fight...

Hey I understand your anti-corporation feelings but the fact is he was getting paid 1.185 million to play hockey by the corporation, the least he can do is follow their policy.
Actually you could use the "getting paid 1.185 million" argument to make a case for not fighting. Why should he risk getting injured and jeopardize his career (and the Ducks' investment in him) by getting into a fight in what seemed a pretty chippy minor league game?

Actually you could use the "getting paid 1.185 million" argument to make a case for not fighting. Why should he risk getting injured and jeopardize his career (and the Ducks' investment in him) by getting into a fight in what seemed a pretty chippy minor league game?

well thats one philosophy...if he wants to avoid physical contact to make sure he has a long career...well what can I say...I simply would have a different philosophy...

Don't mean to jump into this arguement, but from an outside source, I can see both sides of an arguement. Even as a fight fan, I don't expect skill players to fight all the time. Not everyone can be a powerforward. But to me, a player can never be considered a complete player if he isn't willing to defend himself or his teammates. I think the basis of this whole disagreement is that a guy like Chistov is willing to back up his actions, and not make his teammates fight his battles, while a guy like Lupul isn't willing to do that. That can be a very important thing inside a lockerroom. And while it may seem unreasonable, lots of fans will hold it against a player if when the chips are down, he won't fight. As a Flyer's fan, take John Leclair for example. John's scored many a goal, and is by all accounts a nice guy. He's given a lot to Philadelphia. He's also never fought in his Flyer career. During the Senator's brawl, when nearly the entire team, lots of fans took offense to the fact that Leclair let guys like Radovin Somik and Timmander get into fights with guys ilke Neil and Chara, and Leclair just rolled his eyes at the clock. Guys like Sharp, who made it clear they weren't leaving this game with out fighting someone, immediatley became fan favorites. A lot of it's a respect issue. You want to show the other team they can't disrespect your team and teammates.

Also, if Lupul is indeed shaking his head when his teammates are fighting, regardless of your view of fighters, that is disrespectful. These guys put their face on the line every night for Lupul and his teammates. Most players respect the hell out of these guys. When they drop their gloves for the team, they should be applauded by their teammates, regardless if they think fighting is stupid or not.

Again, IMO, Lupul doesn't need to be fighting all the time. But every player, at some point, needs to prove to his teammates that when the **** hits the fan, he's there for them. It DOES bring a team together. It's part of the reason that the Phantoms are such a close team. Nearly every single player on that team, regardless of size or style of play, has fought for his teammates at some point.

Just my opinion.

Don't mean to jump into this arguement, but from an outside source, I can see both sides of an arguement. Even as a fight fan, I don't expect skill players to fight all the time. Not everyone can be a powerforward. But to me, a player can never be considered a complete player if he isn't willing to defend himself or his teammates. I think the basis of this whole disagreement is that a guy like Chistov is willing to back up his actions, and not make his teammates fight his battles, while a guy like Lupul isn't willing to do that. That can be a very important thing inside a lockerroom. And while it may seem unreasonable, lots of fans will hold it against a player if when the chips are down, he won't fight. As a Flyer's fan, take John Leclair for example. John's scored many a goal, and is by all accounts a nice guy. He's given a lot to Philadelphia. He's also never fought in his Flyer career. During the Senator's brawl, when nearly the entire team, lots of fans took offense to the fact that Leclair let guys like Radovin Somik and Timmander get into fights with guys ilke Neil and Chara, and Leclair just rolled his eyes at the clock. Guys like Sharp, who made it clear they weren't leaving this game with out fighting someone, immediatley became fan favorites. A lot of it's a respect issue. You want to show the other team they can't disrespect your team and teammates.

Also, if Lupul is indeed shaking his head when his teammates are fighting, regardless of your view of fighters, that is disrespectful. These guys put their face on the line every night for Lupul and his teammates. Most players respect the hell out of these guys. When they drop their gloves for the team, they should be applauded by their teammates, regardless if they think fighting is stupid or not.

Again, IMO, Lupul doesn't need to be fighting all the time. But every player, at some point, needs to prove to his teammates that when the **** hits the fan, he's there for them. It DOES bring a team together. It's part of the reason that the Phantoms are such a close team. Nearly every single player on that team, regardless of size or style of play, has fought for his teammates at some point.

Just my opinion.

Good points! I would never shake my head while my teammates fought. He is definetly on his way to being a locker room problem.

I was trying to think of a non-fighting powerforward and Leclair is a good example.

http://www.phantomshockey.com/media_Sights/gamedayNEW.asp?Season=2004&CalID=2752

watch the video...it definetly wasn't about jumping in as a third man in a fight...
Two guys got ejected for starting a secondary fight. No one was getting double teamed, like I said, so what was he supposed to do?

You claim all he had to do was something as minor as grab someone, but if it's such small potatoes, what the hell do you care?

This + powerplayer = bad attitude!

I'd rather have John Leclair on my team than a guy who gets into fights. John Leclair was instrumental in the Habs winning the Cup in 93 as well as playing a key role with Team USA in 96 and 2002.

Does fighting have a place in hockey? Yes. Too much of a place? Yes.

It's pretty politically incorrect to shake your head at a guy getting into a fight. Does that make it wrong? No. I wouldn't do it personally, but much of the fighting is unnecessary.

The funny thing is that I can't post a rumor about an NHL player, who could care less what were typing on here, yet someone like CFOB is involved in personal attacks against other posters and no one cares.
I have pull like that.

Where did I personally attack someone?

Two guys got ejected for starting a secondary fight. No one was getting double teamed, like I said, so what was he supposed to do?

You claim all he had to do was something as minor as grab someone, but if it's such small potatoes, what the hell do you care?


At the beginning of the incident it wasn't apparent who was going to fight who. Chistov easily could have gotten sucker punched.

I have pull like that.

Where did I personally attack someone?

hey you called me a tool...that was pretty minor compared to past incidents against others.

well thats one philosophy...if he wants to avoid physical contact to make sure he has a long career...well what can I say...I simply would have a different philosophy...
Does he need to play more physically? Maybe. But then again when I saw him play against the Kings in LA I saw him driving to the net hard. It takes balls to drive to the net in the NHL. He was the one guy that stands out as really doing that. The guy next to me pointed it out too.

It's all about longevity man. The longer you can stay productive in the NHL and make money as well as help the team, the better.

I'd rather have John Leclair on my team than a guy who gets into fights. John Leclair was instrumental in the Habs winning the Cup in 93 as well as playing a key role with Team USA in 96 and 2002.



no doubting that Leclair was a good player, but paxtang's point about Leclair not protecting his teammates in the Ottawa game is a good one. He's one of their bigger players and he lets the Euros and smaller players fight instead.

Does he need to play more physically? Maybe. But then again when I saw him play against the Kings in LA I saw him driving to the net hard. It takes balls to drive to the net in the NHL. He was the one guy that stands out as really doing that. The guy next to me pointed it out too.



He could be much more consistent with driving the net. I've seen him float on the outside a lot.

no doubting that Leclair was a good player, but paxtang's point about Leclair not protecting his teammates in the Ottawa game is a good one. He's one of their bigger players and he lets the Euros and smaller players fight instead.
Why not. Let the little guys and "Euro's" have some fun, Don Cherry.

At the beginning of the incident it wasn't apparent who was going to fight who. Chistov easily could have gotten sucker punched.
Okay, that answers nothing.

Moving on...

hey you called me a tool...that was pretty minor compared to past incidents against others.

You assumed the role of corporate tool to score an obscure point for your anticheerleader screwing stance. Which if you were really intellectually honest with yourself, you'd admit that you'd never EVER adopt that position except to support your weird obsession.

As for the rest of it, I've recieved my share of warnings, never you fear, dear heart. If you have a problem, there's a handy little "report this post" button after everything I type.

I'd rather have John Leclair on my team than a guy who gets into fights. John Leclair was instrumental in the Habs winning the Cup in 93 as well as playing a key role with Team USA in 96 and 2002.

Does fighting have a place in hockey? Yes. Too much of a place? Yes.

It's pretty politically incorrect to shake your head at a guy getting into a fight. Does that make it wrong? No. I wouldn't do it personally, but much of the fighting is unnecessary.




Sure about that? You would rather have Leclair over Iginla,Lecav,Guerin,Tkatchuk,Thornton? All those players will fight if needed and are much more valuable then the overpaid "powerforward"
IMO hockey has a huge place in hockey but thats a whole different debate.
This is about Lupul who toughness and physical play has been challenged by Babcock the team wants him to develop a mean streak and its not happening. At least Chistov showing emotion :teach:

He could be much more consistent with driving the net. I've seen him float on the outside a lot.
Every player could do so more consistently. It's the reason coaches harp on it at every opportunity.

I'd rather have John Leclair on my team than a guy who gets into fights. John Leclair was instrumental in the Habs winning the Cup in 93 as well as playing a key role with Team USA in 96 and 2002.

Does fighting have a place in hockey? Yes. Too much of a place? Yes.

It's pretty politically incorrect to shake your head at a guy getting into a fight. Does that make it wrong? No. I wouldn't do it personally, but much of the fighting is unnecessary.

You can have both though. That's my whole point. You aren't a fan of the fights, that's fine, but it's there. It's a part of the game, so the players have to deal with it. No one expected Leclair to be like a Lindros. But if a guy like Recchi, who was just as instrumental in Pittsburgh's playoff run and is much smaller, can get into the occasional scrap, why can't Leclair. In the same Ottawa game, Mark Recchi challenged Smolinksi and fought him, while Leclair wrestled Wade Redden. Recchi, who is you remember the whole Ottawa incident was centered around, could have let his teammates fight it out. Instead, Recchi fought for his teammates. Players need to know they can trust each other. They want to konw you'll go to war for them. Recchi is just as good a player as Leclair, but to me, he's a more complete player, because he at least proved that when the chips are down, he's there for you. Hell, the one big thing that Leclair has been criticized for is his lack of a mean streak.

Now, as to the head shake thing, if you want to go do that, go ahead. But then you're a cancer. These guys are your teammates, and they are there to protect you. To disrespect a player like that is just way out of line. If you are that against fighting, maybe North America isn't for you.

If you have a problem, there's a handy little "report this post" button after everything I type.

no its ok.

The powerplayers where decent looking and im sure any of us would have done the same thing but this is a pro-hockey player who could get almost any girl around much hotter then the powerplayers.

Okay, that answers nothing.

Moving on...



why not? When a scrum starts you don't know what will happen so hold off someone and at least it's one less player who can cheap shot Chistov.

You can have both though. That's my whole point. You aren't a fan of the fights, that's fine, but it's there. It's a part of the game, so the players have to deal with it. No one expected Leclair to be like a Lindros. But if a guy like Recchi, who was just as instrumental in Pittsburgh's playoff run and is much smaller, can get into the occasional scrap, why can't Leclair. In the same Ottawa game, Mark Recchi challenged Smolinksi and fought him, while Leclair wrestled Wade Redden. Recchi, who is you remember the whole Ottawa incident was centered around, could have let his teammates fight it out. Instead, Recchi fought for his teammates. Players need to know they can trust each other. They want to konw you'll go to war for them. Recchi is just as good a player as Leclair, but to me, he's a more complete player, because he at least proved that when the chips are down, he's there for you. Hell, the one big thing that Leclair has been criticized for is his lack of a mean streak.

Now, as to the head shake thing, if you want to go do that, go ahead. But then you're a cancer. These guys are your teammates, and they are there to protect you. To disrespect a player like that is just way out of line. If you are that against fighting, maybe North America isn't for you.



Y :handclap:

Why not. Let the little guys and "Euro's" have some fun, Don Cherry.

Or since he is a powerforward he can jump in and fight instead? :dunno:

Sure about that? You would rather have Leclair over Iginla,Lecav,Guerin,Tkatchuk,Thornton? All those players will fight if needed and are much more valuable then the overpaid "powerforward"

In his prime, I'd have Leclair over all but Iginla and Thornton. Lecavalier is a wuss and an odd example for you, Guerin and Tkachuk are retarded penalty magnets and lockerroom cancers by all accounts.

IMO hockey has a huge place in hockey but thats a whole different debate.

Er. Glad you think so.

This is about Lupul who toughness and physical play has been challenged by Babcock the team wants him to develop a mean streak and its not happening. At least Chistov showing emotion :teach:

Lupul had a moderate mean streak in the NHL last season. Chistov did, too, the season before. They both had successful rookies seasons.

But Chistov has been awful for over a calendar year, and no matter how much he may be "respected", he'll not be successful as a goon, and neither will Lupul.

Hopefully Getzlaf and Perry continue to play a well balanced game unlike Lupul

You can have both though. That's my whole point. You aren't a fan of the fights, that's fine, but it's there. It's a part of the game, so the players have to deal with it. No one expected Leclair to be like a Lindros. But if a guy like Recchi, who was just as instrumental in Pittsburgh's playoff run and is much smaller, can get into the occasional scrap, why can't Leclair. In the same Ottawa game, Mark Recchi challenged Smolinksi and fought him, while Leclair wrestled Wade Redden. Recchi, who is you remember the whole Ottawa incident was centered around, could have let his teammates fight it out. Instead, Recchi fought for his teammates. Players need to know they can trust each other. They want to konw you'll go to war for them. Recchi is just as good a player as Leclair, but to me, he's a more complete player, because he at least proved that when the chips are down, he's there for you. Hell, the one big thing that Leclair has been criticized for is his lack of a mean streak.

Now, as to the head shake thing, if you want to go do that, go ahead. But then you're a cancer. These guys are your teammates, and they are there to protect you. To disrespect a player like that is just way out of line. If you are that against fighting, maybe North America isn't for you.
For one I never said I'm not a fan of fighting. I enjoy the odd fight now and again. I just think a lot of it is unnecessary. The whole "sending a message" thing is just an excuse for bad sportsmanship from my point of view.

Yes God forbid you should be given the scarlet letter "C" for Cancer in North American hockey. You'll be blackballed for life.

In his prime, I'd have Leclair over all but Iginla and Thornton. Lecavalier is a wuss and an odd example for you, Guerin and Tkachuk are retarded penalty magnets and lockerroom cancers by all accounts.



Er. Glad you think so.



Lupul had a moderate mean streak in the NHL last season. Chistov did, too, the season before. They both had successful rookies seasons.

But Chistov has been awful for over a calendar year, and no matter how much he may be "respected", he'll not be successful as a goon, and neither will Lupul.


Lecavalier is no wuss and proved it by fighting Iginla in the stanley cup finals. Dont forget he also fought Chara.

The powerplayers where decent looking and im sure any of us would have done the same thing but this is a pro-hockey player who could get almost any girl around much hotter then the powerplayers.

agreed and if it happens again things will be a lot worse. The power play girls at the rookie tournament all looked about 15.

why not? When a scrum starts you don't know what will happen so hold off someone and at least it's one less player who can cheap shot Chistov.
As you've mentioned, Chistov has demonstrated that he can handle his own crap.

But Cheesy's been loafing in the minors and might have needed that to regain respect he's lost in other ways (like wishing he was somewhere else).

Lecavalier is a wuss and an odd example for you,



Lecavalier has fought Iginla and Chara.

For one I never said I'm not a fan of fighting. I enjoy the odd fight now and again. I just think a lot of it is unnecessary. The whole "sending a message" thing is just an excuse for bad sportsmanship from my point of view.

Yes God forbid you should be given the scarlet letter "C" for Cancer in North American hockey. You'll be blackballed for life.

Hey, I'm just an outside observer. If you enjoy having players who don't care about each other and don't want to play for one another, go ahead.

And as far as with line brawls, you grab a player and hold on. If you don't want to fight, you don't have to, but you hold a man. That's been the rule for years, no matter how much of a nonfighter you are. Even Leclair will do that. I don't think that should be debateable.

Lecavalier is no wuss and proved it by fighting Iginla in the stanley cup finals. Dont forget he also fought Chara.
Vinny's Finals scrap was remarkable in its rarity: it was the exception that proved the rule. He's a wildly talented, inconsistent presence.

Or since he is a powerforward he can jump in and fight instead? :dunno:
Nah, let Chistov fight.

Hey, I'm just an outside observer. If you enjoy having players who don't care about each other and don't want to play for one another, go ahead.

And as far as with line brawls, you grab a player and hold on. If you don't want to fight, you don't have to, but you hold a man. That's been the rule for years, no matter how much of a nonfighter you are. Even Leclair will do that. I don't think that should be debateable.
Gawd.

I've played sports in one form or another most of my life. I have been a part of some very close teams and have never had to beat anyone down to prove my loyalty or my commitment. Somehow my teammates knew anyway.

It was really weird.

Hey, I'm just an outside observer. If you enjoy having players who don't care about each other and don't want to play for one another, go ahead.

And as far as with line brawls, you grab a player and hold on. If you don't want to fight, you don't have to, but you hold a man. That's been the rule for years, no matter how much of a nonfighter you are. Even Leclair will do that. I don't think that should be debateable.
Show me where I said I "enjoy having players who don't care about each other and don't want to play for one another."

Before you talked about Leclair just shaking his head when guys fought.

Vinny's Finals scrap was remarkable in its rarity: it was the exception that proved the rule. He's a wildly talented, inconsistent presence.

I think Vinny has turned the corner with his physical play, and it's a big reason why his game elevated in the finals. Vinny stated that the play of Primeau really inspired him, and I think it showed.

Vinny's been in 12 fights in his career. Again, my point isn't that every guy needs to throw down at the drop of a hat. Just when push comes to shove. Joe Sakic, Mats Sundin, Stevie Y, all have at some point, fought someone.

Show me where I said I "enjoy having players who don't care about each other and don't want to play for one another."

Before you talked about Leclair just shaking his head when guys fought.

I thought you were condoning someone being a cancer.

Show me where I said I "enjoy having players who don't care about each other and don't want to play for one another."

No, that's what it equates to, lux. The only true passion is demonstrated while punching somebody, that's it.

That's why playoff hockey is so flat all the time. No fights.

Gawd.

I've played sports in one form or another most of my life. I have been a part of some very close teams and have never had to beat anyone down to prove my loyalty or my commitment. Somehow my teammates knew anyway.

It was really weird.

Did a line brawl breakout while you stood and watched in disapproval?

No, that's what it equates to, lux. The only true passion is demonstrated while punching somebody, that's it.

That's why playoff hockey is so flat all the time. No fights.

There are fights in the playoffs. And if it wasn't for the instigator rule, there'd be plenty, like there used to be. But it's obvious we are getting off the point. It's obvious you guys are at least prone to dislike fighting, if not are totally against it.

I'm just asking that a player stick up for himself or his teammates, is this so wrong?

I think Vinny has turned the corner with his physical play, and it's a big reason why his game elevated in the finals. Vinny stated that the play of Primeau really inspired him, and I think it showed.

Vinny's been in 12 fights in his career. Again, my point isn't that every guy needs to throw down at the drop of a hat. Just when push comes to shove. Joe Sakic, Mats Sundin, Stevie Y, all have at some point, fought someone.
Vinny definitely has it in him to be a dominant player in all respects.

We'll have to see what happens when hockey resumes as far as that goes.

Put it this way...there's a guy on my hockey team (I'm the captain) who's the leading scorer in the league...35 goals, 48 points in 10 games. One game last season there was a big fight where he didn't get involved, and he's a big guy. Was I a little ticked at him? Very little. But he more than makes up for it with his obvious goal scoring ability. Like CFOB said, you can show your devotion to your teammates in ways other than getting into a fight.

Put it this way...there's a guy on my hockey team (I'm the captain) who's the leading scorer in the league...35 goals, 48 points in 10 games. One game last season there was a big fight where he didn't get involved, and he's a big guy. Was I a little ticked at him? Very little. But he more than makes up for it with his obvious goal scoring ability. Like CFOB said, you can show your devotion to your teammates in ways other than getting into a fight.


Well, that's you.

Last year, in a game I was ran and ended up dropping the gloves with a guy. This was infront of the other teams bench, and needless to say I was quickly in a dangerous position. Of my teammates, only one player bothered to come over to help me out. Let's just say that I remembered that. Now, I didn't HATE my teammates, or whatever. But I sure thought a lot of that guy who had my back.

Did a line brawl breakout while you stood and watched in disapproval?
I've been in two fights, defended myself both times. I'm not about to let myself get punched around without answering. I won't let anyone get outnumbered, but I have to say that it's never come up.

As for brawls, I do disapprove, and I don't join in. I didn't join the ******* circus, and I don't care if the crowd likes it. My teammates know I give 100% effort, that I can be counted on when the game needs me. That's why I get respect, and that's the only way I'll give it.

I thought you were condoning someone being a cancer.
No.

I've been in two fights, defended myself both times. I'm not about to let myself get punched around without answering. I won't let anyone get outnumbered, but I have to say that it's never come up.

As for brawls, I do disapprove, and I don't join in. I didn't join the ******* circus, and I don't care if the crowd likes it. My teammates know I give 100% effort, that I can be counted on when the game needs me. That's why I get respect, and that's the only way I'll give it.

Well, again, that's you. I'm not to crazy about guys who are only concerned about protecting themselves. Hell, you don't even have to fight them, just grab a person and hold on.

Well, that's you.

Last year, in a game I was ran and ended up dropping the gloves with a guy. This was infront of the other teams bench, and needless to say I was quickly in a dangerous position. Of my teammates, only one player bothered to come over to help me out. Let's just say that I remembered that. Now, I didn't HATE my teammates, or whatever. But I sure thought a lot of that guy who had my back.
Actually the guy that I'm referring to backed me up in another fight that happened. So, I know what you're talking about. I just think fighting's not for everyone in hockey, and I can respect that.

Chistov won that fight.. it's good that he's showing some balls for once.

Maybe if the rest of them started showing some balls and scoring, they might win some games.

man vish, that avatar looks kinda familiar :)

Actually the guy that I'm referring to backed me up in another fight that happened. So, I know what you're talking about. I just think fighting's not for everyone in hockey, and I can respect that.

So can I. But when you're in a league where it happens about every other game, at some point, you'll be faced with the a situation where you either a) let your teammate get beat down, or b) you do something about it. I prefer the teammate who chooses choice B.

I'll always have a bit of a problem with guys like Marcus Ragnarrson who have that big 0 sitting next to their name when it comes to career fighting majors. Just prove that you'll do it. If the Great One can drop his gloves at some point, so can you.

But again, that's just me.

edit: And to just add to this, I think the crux of the issue was that the report was that Lupul was shaking his head at his teammates fighting. Even if you don't like it, just tap your stick on the boards in support. It's about being a good teammate, right?

Well, that's you.

Last year, in a game I was ran and ended up dropping the gloves with a guy. This was infront of the other teams bench, and needless to say I was quickly in a dangerous position. Of my teammates, only one player bothered to come over to help me out. Let's just say that I remembered that. Now, I didn't HATE my teammates, or whatever. But I sure thought a lot of that guy who had my back.
I guess I would ask, why did you let yourself get into a dangerous position?

Well, again, that's you. I'm not to crazy about guys who are only concerned about protecting themselves. Hell, you don't even have to fight them, just grab a person and hold on.
Yeah, it's me. Did I say it was you?

I'm not crazy about the guys who can't defend themselves. Don't play if you can't defend yourself. As long as the stupid rules condone neanderthal behavior, you need to be able to deal. Like I said, I wouldn't let a person be outnumbered.

I guess I would ask, why did you let yourself get into a dangerous position?
Exactly. You lost your temper and got stupid. Your teammate did you a favor.

Yeah, it's me. Did I say it was you?

I'm not crazy about the guys who can't defend themselves. Don't play if you can't defend yourself. As long as the stupid rules condone neanderthal behavior, you need to be able to deal. Like I said, I wouldn't let a person be outnumbered.

Well, isn't that what we are arguing about? I prefer a guy who will defend himself or his teammates, even if it's just once. I prefer a guy who supports his teammates when they put their face and fists out there for him. I don't think we really disagree here.

I guess I would ask, why did you let yourself get into a dangerous position?

I got ran in the open ice by (which was illegal in this league). I could have been knocked out by this guy. To me, that's not something I'm just going to let go.

I didn't realize guys were going to reach over the boards for me.

Well, isn't that what we are arguing about? I prefer a guy who will defend himself or his teammates, even if it's just once. I prefer a guy who supports his teammates when they put their face and fists out there for him. I don't think we really disagree here.
We disagree philosophically in terms of whether fighting belongs or not.

But specifically, Lupul did nothing wrong, even within the context of the so-called fighting etiquette, and even using guidelines as stringent as yours. What's the difference between grabbing someone and not when no one is having a problem except the people who are already fighting?

I also object to the characterization of Lupul as having a bad attitude on the basis of a 25-second clip that shows him doing literally nothing and a story involving him having sex with cheerleaders.

We disagree philosophically in terms of whether fighting belongs or not.

But specifically, Lupul did nothing wrong, even within the context of the so-called fighting etiquette, and even using guidelines as stringent as yours. What's the difference between grabbing someone and not when no one is having a problem except the people who are already fighting?

I also object to the characterization of Lupul as having a bad attitude on the basis of a 25-second clip that shows him doing literally nothing and a story involving him having sex with cheerleaders.

None of my posts had anything to do with that, hell I don't even know of any cheer leader stories. I'm a Flyer's fan just offering my opinion of a guy.

My posts were based on the fact that he was shaking his head at his teammates fighting. If he isn't doing that, then there is no problem. It was being described that not only did he not want to fight, which is fine, but he was disrespecting his teammates and proving unwilling to defend them. That was what I took issue with.

None of my posts had anything to do with that, hell I don't even know of any cheer leader stories. I'm a Flyer's fan just offering my opinion of a guy.

My posts were based on the fact that he was shaking his head at his teammates fighting. If he isn't doing that, then there is no problem. It was being described that not only did he not want to fight, which is fine, but he was disrespecting his teammates and proving unwilling to defend them. That was what I took issue with.
I know, I was just clarifying my stance here. I want to add that I appreciate how reasonable you've been in this discussion.

But again the characterization of Lupul as unwilling to defend a teammate, who was already defending himself, is unfair. The headshaking thing I think is totally inconsequential, I'm sure I've done it myself.

I know, I was just clarifying my stance here. I want to add that I appreciate how reasonable you've been in this discussion.

But again the characterization of Lupul as unwilling to defend a teammate, who was already defending himself, is unfair. The headshaking thing I think is totally inconsequential, I'm sure I've done it myself.

I think one thing that needs to be add is that, while I don't know what league you played in, it probably didn't have as much fighting as the AHL. It's one thing to shake your head in rec leagues etc, where the only people who fight are those that really want to. In the AHL, it's pretty common, so you're faced with the situation more often. You have to deal with it if you think it's stupid or not.

And thank you for the respect you've given me in this. As a fight fan, I've dealt with plenty of hockey fans who don't like fights, and most will simply call me a goon or a retard before talking to me about it.

http://www.phantomshockey.com/media_Sights/gamedayNEW.asp?Season=2004&CalID=2752

1.After seeing this /\ there is no reason for LUPUL to fight. I guess the three guys next to him are horrible hockey players too, because they didn't fight either. I hope you all watched this...


Put it this way...there's a guy on my hockey team (I'm the captain) who's the leading scorer in the league...35 goals, 48 points in 10 games. One game last season there was a big fight where he didn't get involved, and he's a big guy. Was I a little ticked at him? Very little. But he more than makes up for it with his obvious goal scoring ability. Like CFOB said, you can show your devotion to your teammates in ways other than getting into a fight.

2.He's playing in a league below his ability. (or you don't use goalies in your league)


3.Line brawls (in my opinion) are the CLEAR result of bad reffing. To me, it's always the refs not having juevos that allows games to get out control. This is based on personal opinion and experience.

3.Line brawls (in my opinion) are the CLEAR result of bad reffing. To me, it's always the refs not having juevos that allows games to get out control. This is based on personal opinion and experience.

I 100% agree with you.

Don't tell Van that though.

2.He's playing in a league below his ability. (or you don't use goalies in your league)

I'd say so, and I've told him that. And we do use goalies in our league.

I got ran in the open ice by (which was illegal in this league). I could have been knocked out by this guy. To me, that's not something I'm just going to let go.

I didn't realize guys were going to reach over the boards for me.
I too can appreciate the civility of this debate.

Personally I would have taken the guys number and gotten him back some other time, rather than getting into it with the guy in front of his bench. If he's on a team where guys are running players like that, there's going to be a chance the bench will get involved. Granted things happen fast in hockey. Either that or I'd let the ref handle it, call a penalty and burn them on the powerplay.

I too can appreciate the civility of this debate.

Personally I would have taken the guys number and gotten him back some other time, rather than getting into it with the guy in front of his bench. If he's on a team where guys are running players like that, there's going to be a chance the bench will get involved. Granted things happen fast in hockey. Either that or I'd let the ref handle it, call a penalty and burn them on the powerplay.

In retrospect, these would probably have all been good ideas.

Yeah, I played in a summer league at Disney Ice and in one of the games, I got leveled by a clean open ice hit. (which are illegal in adult hockey at Disney, so ofcourse I wasn't expecting it) My teamate (and good friend) was furious and spit at the guy as he was going to the box. All hell broke loose...

Later that game, we were lining up for a dzone facoff and (3rd period) and 4 of the other teams players were trying to start a fight at my bench. The ref dropped the puck and we won the faceoff, but when guys start challenging the bench in a rec league, you gotta start handing out the misconducts. Or be like the two pukes reffing my game (who I complained about) and sit there knitting...

Yeah, I played in a summer league at Disney Ice and in one of the games, I got leveled by a clean open ice hit. (which are illegal in adult hockey at Disney, so ofcourse I wasn't expecting it) My teamate (and good friend) was furious and spit at the guy as he was going to the box. All hell broke loose...

Later that game, we were lining up for a dzone facoff and (3rd period) and 4 of the other teams players were trying to start a fight at my bench. The ref dropped the puck and we won the faceoff, but when guys start challenging the bench in a rec league, you gotta start handing out the misconducts. Or be like the two pukes reffing my game (who I complained about) and sit there knitting...
Do you ever play pick-up at Disney Ice?

on the subject of fighting...heres an interview with Scott Parker...

http://www.hockeyfights.com/articles/198

"Singer: So you think fighting curbs higher forms of violence?

Parker: By far, definitely. If you go out there and step up for your team and you answer the bell, then – for one – the other team is going to respect you, the guy you fight is going to respect you and your teammates are going to respect you. It's a lot easier and a lot better to do it in that sense than it is to throw a cheapshot and try and hurt a guy permanently."

I have, just not recently. I played in the initiation A league this summer after not playing since midget.

I am looking to maybe play again, but for the time being I'm too poor.

edit: midget not bantam

Singer: Speaking of guys trying to get at you all the time – Garrett Burnett – how long has that been going on?

Parker: That's been going on since my first year at Hersey. We played down in Kentucky and I believe we fought there. I don't know if I slipped or fell, but he was hootin' and hollerin' and playing it up and I was like “whatever”.

Later they came to Hershey and Burnett got into a fight with Troy Crowder. They fell to the ice and Crowds was on his back and both refs had control of things. One was trying to help Burnett up and let go of his right arm, letting him pull off and he just beat Crowds on the ice. His head bounced off the ice and he had to get nine or eleven stitches on the inside of his eye. It was brutal.

That was Hell in Hershey, the bench brawl. I looked back at the coach, Mike Foligno, and I was like, “Can I go? Can I go?” and he's like “no, no, no”. I waited two more seconds and again I was like “Can I go? Can I go?” I don't know if he said “no, no” or “go, go” so I just jumped the bench and went right after him. By that time they had just pushed him off the ice and closed the door and I was livid. Both benches cleared and I took off my tie-down and took off all my top equipment and I just circled around looking for somebody. I was pissed off to tell you the truth.

You don't cheapshot one of my players like that, it doesn't make any sense. Fight a guy straight up, whoever wins, wins, but at the end of the day respect yourself for being a fair player and a fair fighter.

on the subject of fighting...heres an interview with Scott Parker...

http://www.hockeyfights.com/articles/198

"Singer: So you think fighting curbs higher forms of violence?

Parker: By far, definitely. If you go out there and step up for your team and you answer the bell, then – for one – the other team is going to respect you, the guy you fight is going to respect you and your teammates are going to respect you. It's a lot easier and a lot better to do it in that sense than it is to throw a cheapshot and try and hurt a guy permanently."
Yes that beacon of truth and higher thought, Scott Parker. :shakehead

Singer: Speaking of guys trying to get at you all the time – Garrett Burnett – how long has that been going on?

Parker: That's been going on since my first year at Hersey. We played down in Kentucky and I believe we fought there. I don't know if I slipped or fell, but he was hootin' and hollerin' and playing it up and I was like “whatever”.

Later they came to Hershey and Burnett got into a fight with Troy Crowder. They fell to the ice and Crowds was on his back and both refs had control of things. One was trying to help Burnett up and let go of his right arm, letting him pull off and he just beat Crowds on the ice. His head bounced off the ice and he had to get nine or eleven stitches on the inside of his eye. It was brutal.

That was Hell in Hershey, the bench brawl. I looked back at the coach, Mike Foligno, and I was like, “Can I go? Can I go?” and he's like “no, no, no”. I waited two more seconds and again I was like “Can I go? Can I go?” I don't know if he said “no, no” or “go, go” so I just jumped the bench and went right after him. By that time they had just pushed him off the ice and closed the door and I was livid. Both benches cleared and I took off my tie-down and took off all my top equipment and I just circled around looking for somebody. I was pissed off to tell you the truth.

You don't cheapshot one of my players like that, it doesn't make any sense. Fight a guy straight up, whoever wins, wins, but at the end of the day respect yourself for being a fair player and a fair fighter.
But just by reading this quote, is this policy of fighting really de-escalating the violence? If anything, it sounds like it's escalating it.

Have fun Scott, but not for me.

some interesting comments about fighting from Parker:

"Probably 90 to 95% of the fights that happen in the NHL or any of the leagues nobody ever gets hurt. Maybe a scruff on their hand, or they fall down wrong and hit their elbow or just something small like that. There are very few guys that get badly injured. More common are the injuries that happen from cheapshots, that's why this instigator rule has to be totally 86'd because it's ridiculous. You have guys skating around with pitchforks, and they're trying to protect themselves obviously, but if you're going to do something you have to own up to it. I think if they took the instigator rule out, that would make a huge improvement."

some interesting comments about fighting from Parker:

"Probably 90 to 95% of the fights that happen in the NHL or any of the leagues nobody ever gets hurt. Maybe a scruff on their hand, or they fall down wrong and hit their elbow or just something small like that. There are very few guys that get badly injured. More common are the injuries that happen from cheapshots, that's why this instigator rule has to be totally 86'd because it's ridiculous. You have guys skating around with pitchforks, and they're trying to protect themselves obviously, but if you're going to do something you have to own up to it. I think if they took the instigator rule out, that would make a huge improvement."
In another thread we talked about Kevin Sawyer having to retire from concussions from too many fights.

In another thread we talked about Kevin Sawyer having to retire from concussions from too many fights.

Put him in the 5 or 10 percent.

1.After seeing this /\ there is no reason for LUPUL to fight. I guess the three guys next to him are horrible hockey players too, because they didn't fight either. I hope you all watched this...

Wish I could, but theyre in Real Media and I cant be arsed getting that.

Wish I could, but theyre in Real Media and I cant be arsed getting that.

Well, there are 4 I SAY 4 guys standing there doing nothing, so don't listen to thses guys talking smack on Lupul. That's all you really need to know.

Put him in the 5 or 10 percent.
Again I think it's beyond idiotic that we allow people to attempt to injure one another when they're angry enough.

And the "instigator rule causes cheapshots" argument is clear bs to anyone who watched hockey before it was introduced. There were more cheapshots before.

Again I think it's beyond idiotic that we allow people to attempt to injure one another when they're angry enough.

And the "instigator rule causes cheapshots" argument is clear bs to anyone who watched hockey before it was introduced. There were more cheapshots before.

I totally agree. Sometimes I wonder what games these people were watching in the 70's (if they watched hockey at all back then), where they think things were so clean. It was quite the opposite, the fighting had gotten so out of hand that it was barely hockey anymore.

The idea that enforcers are the noble defenders of what's right and wrong in hockey is a nice romantic notion ... but one that's completely based in fantasy. Before the instigator teams used to send out 4th line goons to start a fight against a star player to try and get that guy out of the game.

And even now, some of the worst cheap shots I've seen in the last few years have come from enforcers. What, they're going to suddenly change their ways with no instigator rule?

There's only one way to curb cheap shots, and that's stiffer penalties, whether in game or in terms of suspensions. Futzing around with the rules for fighting (either to increase it or reduce it) is tantamount to a quick fix, and does nothing to address the real problems.

Again I think it's beyond idiotic that we allow people to attempt to injure one another when they're angry enough.

And the "instigator rule causes cheapshots" argument is clear bs to anyone who watched hockey before it was introduced. There were more cheapshots before.

What here is BS is your arguments against fighting, when stars from Selanne to Kariya to Gretzky to Lemieux are saying that enforcers make the game safer I rather take their word instead of your uninformed, ignorant and downright biased views.

Wow, I go to work and have 7 pages to read.

Now, fighting is a part of a game, if you want you can fight but if you do you earn respect among teammates and around the league, no one can argue this.

About Lupul my problem isn't the fact he don't fight, the 70% of players don't fight.
My problem is he don't show emotion, heart, nothing. Chistov and Lupul are supposed to be the stars of the team, instead they struggle to find the net.
Chistov fight for frustration probably, but I like to see a reaction in the kid, I see he has emotion, wants to be in the game. Lupul sometimes score but that's it.
Hope in Bryz to keep the team alive...

Ah yes, fight fetish lover my ass!

Did a line brawl breakout while you stood and watched in disapproval?

I love the way that my little comment about Lupul looking annoyed at a fight during a game got sooo way out of hand... :banghead:

When I witnessed this it was during the Oct 24th game at home against Rochester.
The game was close and the stupid pens were getting out of hand.
Also the only 2 players near each other were to two fighting. Everyone else skated back to the bench.
So...before you all go off on how Lupul was standing there watching as a LINE brawl was breaking out ...GET A GRIP...

oh...and does anyone else remember towards the end of the season when the Ducks were in St Louis and Lupul kept trying to go after Tkachuk but players from both teams kept getting in between the two...Wouldn't let them go at each other...

Oh...and what if he doesn't fight because he sucks at it...anyone think of that...if you know your gonna get your arse beat why put your self in the situation to get hurt...let the guys that know what they are doing take care of it...

Oh...and what if he doesn't fight because he sucks at it...anyone think of that...if you know your gonna get your arse beat why put your self in the situation to get hurt...let the guys that know what they are doing take care of it...


Nope if you don't needlessly fight, you're a coward.

What here is BS is your arguments against fighting, when stars from Selanne to Kariya to Gretzky to Lemieux are saying that enforcers make the game safer I rather take their word instead of your uninformed, ignorant and downright biased views.

Yeah, I'm sure that quartet of legendary wussies isn't biased the opposite way.

For all you drooling about Lupul and his shenanigans, I draw you attention to this (http://www.cincinnatimightyducks.com/news/stories/ducks-cov/notes/notes-article-11.11.04.htm), especially this tidbit:
Paris Hilton was among the registered guests at the Ducks hotel during the team's stay in Philadelphia

is that not the most random addition to an article

why did they feel the need to lets us know the all might paris hilton was staying at the duck's hotel..
are we to assume that there is more to this ...

ha

For all you drooling about Lupul and his shenanigans, I draw you attention to this, especially this tidbit:

Quote:
Paris Hilton was among the registered guests at the Ducks hotel during the team's stay in Philadelphia


It's undeniable evidence that he and Andy McDonald are shagging Paris Hilton in the hottub while shaking their head at Chistov getting into a fight with a sorority girl who says that Lupul treats his dates like crap. :eek:

Plus Chistov was concerned about the infamous "third man in" rule.

It's undeniable evidence that he and Andy McDonald are shagging Paris Hilton in the hottub while shaking their head at Chistov getting into a fight with a sorority girl who says that Lupul treats his dates like crap. :eek:

Who hasn't had Paris Hilton?

For all you drooling about Lupul and his shenanigans, I draw you attention to this (http://www.cincinnatimightyducks.com/news/stories/ducks-cov/notes/notes-article-11.11.04.htm), especially this tidbit:

We're all just fans joking about this and the actual team website throws in a pointless thing like Paris being at their hotel. Funny stuff.

Who hasn't had Paris Hilton?
Apparently we can cross Lupul and McDonald off that list.

Apparently we can cross Lupul and McDonald off that list.

just Lupul...McDonald is busy meeting German women at the moment...

just Lupul...McDonald is busy meeting German women at the moment...
I really thought the Chistov not wanting to be the "third man in" deserved a :lol:

I really thought the Chistov not wanting to be the "third man in" deserved a :lol:

your putting disturbing images in my head... :joker:

your putting disturbing images in my head... :joker:
That's all I've got. That's all I bring to the table.

Yeah, I'm sure that quartet of legendary wussies isn't biased the opposite way.

YOu have been following hockey what 5 years? I don't expect you to understand all the nuances of a complicated game like hockey but please, just because you don't understand the role of fighting/fighters doesn't mean they have no place in the game.

you're also in a small minority here.

your putting disturbing images in my head... :joker:

Holy cr@p! I'm disturbed now! :lol:

YOu have been following hockey what 5 years? I don't expect you to understand all the nuances of a complicated game like hockey but please, just because you don't understand the role of fighting/fighters doesn't mean they have no place in the game.

you're also in a small minority here.
:lol

YOu have been following hockey what 5 years? I don't expect you to understand all the nuances of a complicated game like hockey but please, just because you don't understand the role of fighting/fighters doesn't mean they have no place in the game.

you're also in a small minority here.
I dunno....should I play, should I let him go?

What do you think, lux? Leave this guy alone?

:speechles I vote play.

let it die already...

ugg

I dunno....should I play, should I let him go?

What do you think, lux? Leave this guy alone?

Come on, come out and play. We all know that when it comes to arguments based on facts you're like 0-20 on these boards. So feel free to give your best shot.

And don't hesitate to take your friend Lux with you, judging from the post above he doesn't have much to offer either.

Come on, come out and play. We all know that when it comes to arguments based on facts you're like 0-20 on these boards. So feel free to give your best shot.

And don't hesitate to take your friend Lux with you, judging from the post above he doesn't have much to offer either.

Talk about Instigator rule... LOL! :D

I dunno....should I play, should I let him go?

What do you think, lux? Leave this guy alone?
Eh, I'm going to choose to ignore him.