Who here loved the Winnipeg Jets?

Who here loved the Winnipeg Jets?

Here is a website all about the Winnipeg Jets (http://www.jetsowner.com/)

Who didn't love the Winnipeg Jets? *Bettman*I know i loved the Jets, NHL should've protected the Jets and helped them out.

I did not love them but more felt sorry for them since they were the best divsional third place team in probably the history of sports, or close to it, I would like to see what they could have done if they never had to face the Oil or the Flames as much as they had too.

Who didn't love the Winnipeg Jets?


the people of Winnipeg, where the Jets were only above the average attendance level league wide twice.

http://www.hockeyresearch.com/mfoster/business/nhl_attn.html

the people of Winnipeg, where the Jets were only above the average attendance level league wide twice.

http://www.hockeyresearch.com/mfoster/business/nhl_attn.html
And I thought it was my torch only to bear. ;) Winnipeg is a hockey town.

BUT....Winnipeg doesn't have the population or economic climate to have an NHL team.

I lived in Winnipeg, grew up in Kenora and think that as a place to live, Winnipeg is AWESOME.(Aside from what Mac would tell ya.... :D ,)

From a hockey standpoint, they are just not NHL material.

Who didn't love the Winnipeg Jets? *Bettman*I know i loved the Jets, NHL should've protected the Jets and helped them out.

I remember watching CBC Newsworld a couple months ago.

Bettman: "I was extremely dissapointed to see the NHL leave Winnipeg." :shakehead

I remember watching CBC Newsworld a couple months ago.

Bettman: "I was extremely dissapointed to see the NHL leave Winnipeg." :shakehead
Bettman then went on to say that he loves a good pierogie.

I've always liked Winnipeg, and I wish that the NHL was the sort of league that had a franchise there. I wish the same for Quebec and maybe Hamilton and Halifax. It isn't that kind of league though. The revenue required to support this type of business just isn't there. It's funny to see comments about fans supporting teams, esp. from Mtl. and Toronto where corporations have always supported the teams. I'd hazard a guess that if a study could indicate what percentage of Joe Hockey Fans actually spend the money in each city as opposed to exp. acct. money, you'd applaud the Ottawa's and Winnipeg's. I'm as big a fan as there is but my support consists of paying my Bell Exp.Vu every month.

BTW have you Winnipegers forgiven Fergy for making Jimmy Mann a first rounder yet ?

the people of Winnipeg, where the Jets were only above the average attendance level league wide twice.

http://www.hockeyresearch.com/mfost...s/nhl_attn.html

interesting, however it will probably better serve your statement if you actually peruse the stats you provide to back up your comments.

in the jets 17 year NHL history, they drew more than the NHL average five time, not two as you suggest.

further, winnipeg's problems were the arena and management's ineptitude, not the fans.

winnipeg arena realistically only had about 13,000 seats that provided a decent view of the rink and considering the jets were only .500 or better in six of their seventeen seasons, the support the team received is pretty impressive in my opinion.

as other teams built new facilities, their attendance went up, but winnipeg's inability to build a new arena was the downfall of the team.

by the stats provided above, winnipeg actually outdrew original six teams ... 9 times ! and winnipeg fans didn't care about the team ?

I loved the Jets. But I didn't LOVE them. As a Canucks fan, especially in the early 90's (Even though I was too young to remember), I love to HATE them. But it's not like the Leafs whereas I hated them with a passion. It was all out of love, it was such a great rivalry and I use to always look forward to when Winnipeg would face off aaginst Vancouver at 7:00 on a Saturday evening.

interesting, however it will probably better serve your statement if you actually peruse the stats you provide to back up your comments.

in the jets 17 year NHL history, they drew more than the NHL average five time, not two as you suggest.

further, winnipeg's problems were the arena and management's ineptitude, not the fans.

winnipeg arena realistically only had about 13,000 seats that provided a decent view of the rink and considering the jets were only .500 or better in six of their seventeen seasons, the support the team received is pretty impressive in my opinion.

as other teams built new facilities, their attendance went up, but winnipeg's inability to build a new arena was the downfall of the team.

by the stats provided above, winnipeg actually outdrew original six teams ... 9 times ! and winnipeg fans didn't care about the team ?
And they didn't draw above League Average attendance after their first five years of existence. That would mean 12 years in a row.

Ticket prices and economics now even with a $31 million dollar salary cap still are out of the realm of possibilities for Winnipeg. It is a pipe dream by die hards, nothing more.

Facts:

Winnipeg was under the average attendance the last 12 years of the Jets' existence
They couldn't survive during a more friendly economic environment, there's no way they could now. Winnipeg is an American Hockey League city. It is minor league town
The years that they were over the listed average attendance, many teams do not have numbers listed.

The only number that means anything when it comes to Winnipeg is 3.4. You know what that means.

MacDaddy Version 1.3 is a troll, plain and simple. You have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. You may also find it interesting his location is Southern Ontario, a region where it's ignorance to the west is legondary! :shakehead
Good idea to stick to topic. There are obviously a few dedicated hockey fans that would like to see the Winnipeg Jets return to the NHL. Conventional thinking would say it is a bad idea because the "facts" don't support it as being a good idea. When a full market study after the new CBA is done, then prove how a city with a history of approximately 11 000 people in a 15 000 seat arena (And if you want the caveat that only 13 000 were actually good seats, they didn't sell out a 13000 seat arena).

There is no executive in their right mind that would admit a small market team to the NHL when....

1. They are more likely to be talking contraction than expansion or moving a team.
2. The city is a small market that will require league/big market assistance from the get go.

It makes zero sense. As a businessman myself, I wouldn't invest a dime in Winnipeg. And again, to show a lack of bias against small markets, I would go to Quebec City 100 times before Winnipeg.

There are obviously a few dedicated hockey fans that would like to see the Winnipeg Jets return to the NHL.
Few being the key word, but sadly the average IQ of the business men who would bring the NHL to Winnipeg would be about 3.4 (where have I heard that # before?)


It makes zero sense. As a businessman myself, I wouldn't invest a dime in Winnipeg. And again, to show a lack of bias against small markets, I would go to Quebec City 100 times before Winnipeg.


Quebec city supported their team, even through the lean years. They were only below league average 3 times. It was a shame they lost their team just when it was about to win a cup.

Off topic. How ironic.

According to your logic, I guess it's ok to point out insignificant facts like the homocide rate of Winnipeg, when the thread is about whether Winnipeg could support a team under better economic conditions..... :shakehead


And here's why: The city of Winnipeg should worry about spending money getting their crime under control and supporting their American Hockey League franchise (for which they just built a new facility) Money should be spent pursuing an environment that is safe for their citizens not a pipe dream.

My posts until you arrived to degenerate this thread were all on topic.

And here's why: The city of Winnipeg should worry about spending money getting their crime under control and supporting their American Hockey League franchise (for which they just built a new facility) Money should be spent pursuing an environment that is safe for their citizens not a pipe dream.

My posts until you arrived to degenerate this thread were all on topic.

The crime rate has nothing to do with a city supporting a hockey team. As for your second point, the MTS Centre was built mainly to compete with Fargo and Grand Forks, ND (two cities that have built state-of-the-art facilities in the last few years) for concerts, and other attractions. True, the Moose will play there, but it was not the reason Winnipeg built the arena.

Knock it off with the personal attacks and dragging private disputes onto the boards. Any further incidents in this thread will result in a ban.

Fargo and Grand Forks? Minor League towns that Winnipeg can compete with. Good for them for realizing they should aim lower.

Good idea to stick to topic. There are obviously a few dedicated hockey fans that would like to see the Winnipeg Jets return to the NHL. Conventional thinking would say it is a bad idea because the "facts" don't support it as being a good idea. When a full market study after the new CBA is done, then prove how a city with a history of approximately 11 000 people in a 15 000 seat arena (And if you want the caveat that only 13 000 were actually good seats, they didn't sell out a 13000 seat arena).

There is no executive in their right mind that would admit a small market team to the NHL when....

1. They are more likely to be talking contraction than expansion or moving a team.
2. The city is a small market that will require league/big market assistance from the get go.

It makes zero sense. As a businessman myself, I wouldn't invest a dime in Winnipeg. And again, to show a lack of bias against small markets, I would go to Quebec City 100 times before Winnipeg.

interesting comments, however i disagree with your assessment that winnipeg had a history of 11,000 fans per game. winnipeg averaged almost 13,000 fans per game.

further, NHL economics have indeed changed since the Jets left in '96. with the new arena, a potential franchise would now have access to revenues such as:

internet revenues (banner ads, licensing fees, sponsorship)
arena novelty revenue
concessions
luxury suites
dasherboard revenues
signage (in ice, building naming rights, scoreboard, zamboni, concourse)
pay per view revenues
arena revenues from non hockey events (concerts etc.)

these revenues weren't available to the Jets back then. While Winnipeg will never generate advertising revenues equivalent to the upper third of the league, it will in my opinion definitely generate more, if not comparable revenues, than Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Florida, Carolina, and Nashville post-lockout.

whether an NHL franchise is feasible in Winnipeg is definitely open to debate ( although i believe it will be, with a maximum US$ 35 million salary cap). although this is the question for several NHL franchises as well right now.

the real question for me is post lockout, what will be the economic situation of several US markets such as Carolina, Tampa, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Phoenix etc. ? Will the owners of these franchises fold their franchises if these markets fail, or will one take a chance on another market ?

If one did, i truly feel Winnipeg is as good a choice as any other.

to respond to your second comment, winnipeg is a small market. that is fact. however, the NHL is definitely #1 here, and there are no other major league franchises to draw revenues/fans away.

It is my opinion that Winnipeg is indeed a far more suitable city for an NHL franchise than cities that already have the NFL, MLB and NBA to compete with ie. Tampa, Pittsburgh, Phoenix.

"conventional thinking" such as that used by the NHL in placing teams in markets such as Phoenix and Tampa Bay has proven to be a failure.

imo, the true measue of a market's feasibility, for a unique product such as the NHL, has to be measured in total fan base, not total population. It is here that Winnipeg has the competitive advantage with some of these US teams.

good discussion !

Fargo and Grand Forks? Minor League towns that Winnipeg can compete with. Good for them for realizing they should aim lower.

Actually Fargo and Grand Forks are AMERICAN cities. What this means essentially is that people from a 500 mile radius will go and see acts that tour the two cities. america has a much larger population base to draw from, not to mention the strength of the US Dollar, and the superior infrastructure, which make it easy for people in Duluth, South Dakota, etc. to drive 5 hours to see concerts and events.

Case in point: Green Bay Packers. The Population of Green Bay, WI is similiar to Fargo. The difference being that there are 5,000,000 people in the surrounding area. that is why Lambeau Field is packed with 70,000+ fans for every NFL game.

Are you disputing the numbers provided with regards to Winnipeg's attendance figures? Can you back up the 13000 number you suggest was the actual number?

Tampa seems to be doing just fine vs their major league competition. They had better attendance figures than Winnipeg every year they were both in the league, save 1. They have also won a cup, which requires 4 playoff series wins in 1 year.

Are you disputing the numbers provided with regards to Winnipeg's attendance figures? Can you back up the 13000 number you suggest was the actual number?

Tampa seems to be doing just fine vs their major league competition. They had better attendance figures than Winnipeg every year they were both in the league, save 1. They have also won a cup, which requires 4 playoff series wins in 1 year.

over the jets 17 years in the nhl, they averaged 13,004 fans per game, from the figures you yourself provided.

as far as tampa, i question the viabilty of the tampa market post-lockout. tampa was basically giving away tickets when they played out of the 28,000 seat arena.

Are you disputing the numbers provided with regards to Winnipeg's attendance figures? Can you back up the 13000 number you suggest was the actual number?

Tampa seems to be doing just fine vs their major league competition. They had better attendance figures than Winnipeg every year they were both in the league, save 1. They have also won a cup, which requires 4 playoff series wins in 1 year.

NHL Attendance History (http://www.hockeyresearch.com/mfoster/business/nhl_attn.html)

I think the Jets averaged around 13,200 for the 17 years they were in the NHL. Not bad for a team that was mediocre at best.

We could have easily beat out Tampa in terms of attendance if we sold tickets for $7 a game. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Tampa selling Stanley Cup Final tickets for that same price? I also read that game 7 was not sold out until the afternoon of the game. Can you honestly say that would happen if a Winnipeg-based team reached the final?

interesting comments, however i disagree with your assessment that winnipeg had a history of 11,000 fans per game. winnipeg averaged almost 13,000 fans per game.

further, NHL economics have indeed changed since the Jets left in '96. with the new arena, a potential franchise would now have access to revenues such as:

internet revenues (banner ads, licensing fees, sponsorship)
arena novelty revenue
concessions
luxury suites
dasherboard revenues
signage (in ice, building naming rights, scoreboard, zamboni, concourse)
pay per view revenues
arena revenues from non hockey events (concerts etc.)

these revenues weren't available to the Jets back then. While Winnipeg will never generate advertising revenues equivalent to the upper third of the league, it will in my opinion definitely generate more, if not comparable revenues, than Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Florida, Carolina, and Nashville post-lockout.

whether an NHL franchise is feasible in Winnipeg is definitely open to debate ( although i believe it will be, with a maximum US$ 35 million salary cap). although this is the question for several NHL franchises as well right now.

the real question for me is post lockout, what will be the economic situation of several US markets such as Carolina, Tampa, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Phoenix etc. ? Will the owners of these franchises fold their franchises if these markets fail, or will one take a chance on another market ?

If one did, i truly feel Winnipeg is as good a choice as any other.

to respond to your second comment, winnipeg is a small market. that is fact. however, the NHL is definitely #1 here, and there are no other major league franchises to draw revenues/fans away.

It is my opinion that Winnipeg is indeed a far more suitable city for an NHL franchise than cities that already have the NFL, MLB and NBA to compete with ie. Tampa, Pittsburgh, Phoenix.

"conventional thinking" such as that used by the NHL in placing teams in markets such as Phoenix and Tampa Bay has proven to be a failure.

imo, the true measue of a market's feasibility, for a unique product such as the NHL, has to be measured in total fan base, not total population. It is here that Winnipeg has the competitive advantage with some of these US teams.

good discussion !


Great rebuttle :handclap:

Your right a city like Phoenix always had a hard time keeping all seats occupied in all 4 major league sports facilities; imo the 'yotes will dissapear from there new venue and the suns will move there.

On a sports radio the other day, the play-by-play announcer of the carolina hurricanes says the media and people in that city are not paying much atttention to the lockout in other words they don't care. Its a football and university basketball city, case and point. So when the shake down of the post lockout arrives, the south eastern coast teams like carolina will fold, merge, or relocate whichever the case may be. You will definately see Winnipeg in the mix of the new NHL. It is in the best interrest of the NHL to keep all canadian teams in the NHL, thats why they want a salary cap.

Whenever the AHL Moose hold a Jets tribute game there atttendance skyrockets to a sell out. All you see Jets gear not Moose ... In turn you get that special atmosphere like chants and a 5 min wave around the arena.

And you know what one we are one of the most knowledgble hockey fans unlike the south east coast, which means we are red white and blue, true hockey fans with a great fan base and the market is definatly there. Even people in the Hockey world will concur. Just ask Ron Mclean, Don Cherry, John Ferguson, Teemu Selanne, Bill Watters, Eddie Olczyk, Thomas Steen, Management of the Edmonton Oilers, Flames,and Wild, Bobby Hull the list goes on and on.

It was a shame that we lost the Jets I believe if we would of kept Teemu and signed a couple free agents we would of been a force to be reckon with. I remember in the finals years that we were about to get Jeremy Roenick, reaquire Hawerchuck and a steady D homeboy from Wpg, James Patrick. But a lack of modern arena and crappy management within the Jets organisation and arena management, was in consequence the demise of the Jets. When the wpg arena was expanded from 10, 700 to 15, 500, There were about 2000 obstructed views. These were called the nosebleed section, all you could see was the rafters. In turn it resulted in alot of unsatisfied paying customers. :mad:

"The wpg arena (old barn) was built in 1955 and in 1979 the arena expanded. As Balconies on the east and west sides added spinbusters, with the south side expanded upward to house another 1,200, transforming that end of the arena bowl to a slope similar to that of Myan paramids of Chichen Itza. There were now 15, 500 red and blue seats (painted blue to mimic the sky above, which is essentially where you were sitting if your ticket was up there)."
:thumbd:
source wpg sun

Bye the way Winnipeg had a farewell to the old Winnipeg Arena, last night.

Bye the way Winnipeg had a farewell to the old Winnipeg Arena, last night.

According to jetsowner.com, the farewell didn't go very well. :dunno:

actually the ceremony was great.

it's the hockey that sucked !

actually the ceremony was great.

it's the hockey that sucked !
Thats probably what he meant. Darren Ford HATES the Moose.

I heard the ceremony was a blast. My four buddies were pictured in their t-shirts spelling out "J-E-T-S" in today's Winnipeg Sun. I was offered one of those tickets but unfortunately couldn't make it as a result of work.

MACKDADDY:

Hawker is kicking ur a** in this debate yet you have nothing to say to him. Instead you pick on Jets 4 Life with your false stats and obvious bias against Winnipeg.

Shame on you, All-Star. :shakehead

You're pretty cool btw. :thumbu:

Never really loved the Jets. Was too young to appreciate their 'glory' years in the 1980's and was obviously not alive when they dominated the WHA. Growing up, they were just the pathetic team that Teemu Selanne played on, the team everybody scored 5 goals on, the mediocre team that packed up and went to Phoenix. Their jerseys were sort of nice.

MACKDADDY:

Hawker is kicking ur a** in this debate yet you have nothing to say to him. Instead you pick on Jets 4 Life with your false stats and obvious bias against Winnipeg.

How so? Nothing was offered that hadn't already been rebutted. 13000 is fine and dandy in the American Hockey league, but the average attendance figures the last 8 years have been hovering around 16000, which is more than the number of seats at the MTS. It is an AHL facility. Most of his info was from the jetsowner.com site (I read the page), which is run by an individual with intellectual disabilities if I remember correctly (from what was said in other threads on this subject) My job is to support people with disabilities and build them up, not tear them a new one. Jets4Life has just become a favourite whipping boy due to his *ahem* character. Actually, I don't really have anything against Winnipeg, just the criminals that are overrunning the city. Hell, I would love to take my kids to the Assiniboine zoo, but it is the un caged animals that keep me away. I have a great Grandmother living there who hasn't seen two of my children because I cannot put my family at risk by bringing them there.


As for your other comments, shame on me (oh well... :dunno: ) and the other, I aim to please or piss off (depending on my mood)

EDIT: Even if they could put 15000 in the arena in Winnipeg, which is VERY debateable, all the team would have to do is draw 11500-12000 in the States to be ahead of the game. The winnipeg backers are counting on too many ifs and smart business people don't react to whims of the heart.

Winnipeg isn't that bad chap.

You must be incapable of defending yourself... or something... paranoid?

The next time you're in town I promise to take you on a nice stroll in the North End and, yes, I will hold your hand. I promise.

Apparently the new arena has left room to expand I heard somewhere. From all these arguements, I have taken from it that WInnipeg could be just as fine a hockey city as lots of ones that are already in this league, with a good system of course.

I also took from those attendance figures - why on earth does Quebec not have an NHL team? I've always been told they were a great hockey town, and they were above average attendance more than half of the time, so can anyone tell me this?

Great rebuttle :handclap:

Your right a city like Phoenix always had a hard time keeping all seats occupied in all 4 major league sports facilities; imo the 'yotes will dissapear from there new venue and the suns will move there.

When the wpg arena was expanded from 10, 700 to 15, 500, There were about 2000 obstructed views. These were called the nosebleed section, all you could see was the rafters. In turn it resulted in alot of unsatisfied paying customers. :mad:



Suns just updated AWA to State-of-the-art similar to Glendale arena. That will be the Suns home for many years.

I sit here stunned tonight to read that wpg arena had 2,000 obstructed view seats!!!

??? Are you kidding me???

I was here (Phx) when they moved here & know they (Burke & Gluckstern) didn't test for any seating layouts prior to signing the deal with Colangelo and AWA. Then the Morons realized they were stuck with 3,500 obstructed seats. I always thought that was stupid, but to find out it happened after coming from the same situation in Winnipeg is absolutely brainless!!

Actually, I don't really have anything against Winnipeg

You sure could have fooled me.

Hell, I would love to take my kids to the Assiniboine zoo, but it is the un caged animals that keep me away. I have a great Grandmother living there who hasn't seen two of my children because I cannot put my family at risk by bringing them there.

LOL. What kind of risk? Are you a member of the Zig Zag crew? :lol

i used to have a jets jersey and i wore it everyday, but then my ma burned it.

C'mon. Painting Winnipeg with this brush is too easy. I'll watch the Ottawa news tonight and get a few gang or crime stories. Is Ottawa dangerous ? Is Toronto,Philly ? Any city has problems and maybe some more than others, but putting your family at risk ? Most people know the danger areas of cities and live their lives accordingly. Careful how you paint the whole city.

Man, all this talk about the Nords and Jets makes me think about how great Hockey Day In Canada would be! With four games they would probably have to start the first game at noon! :handclap:

The biggest complain I have heard about the old barn is that it had many seats with poor sight lines. I read an article today that stated that those seats were due to an expansion of the arena to accomodate the Jets entry into the WHA or NHL (can't remember if it was early 70s or late 70s). Expanding the capacity of the building is something I see mentioned as a way of making the MTS work for an NHL revival. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Winnipeg couldn't have seriously thought that they had a shot at re-acquiring an NHL team or they would have built a proper building. Again I implore you to get out and enjoy the Moose before they go the way of the Warriors, the Jets.

On a more positive note i will say Winnipeg has done well at hosting short term events. The 99 Pan Am games were a huge success, as were the World Junior, and pretty much any curling event.

Comparing Winnipeg to struggling NHL markets is a wasted exercise. Winnipeg either has the werewithall to stand on its own as a legitimate NHL market or it doesn't. When even the staunchest proponents have to attach caveats to their argument, then it's the latter scenario.

Anyone else here attend the Canadian World juniors shellacking of the Soviet Union 8-0 on December 26, 1981 at the old Winnipeg arena. What an incredible game and turning point for Canadians Internationally. It was Canada's first gold at the WJC, which saw games played in Winnipeg despite being hosted by Minneapolis/St Paul.

Suns just updated AWA to State-of-the-art similar to Glendale arena. That will be the Suns home for many years.

I sit here stunned tonight to read that wpg arena had 2,000 obstructed view seats!!!

??? Are you kidding me???

I was here (Phx) when they moved here & know they (Burke & Gluckstern) didn't test for any seating layouts prior to signing the deal with Colangelo and AWA. Then the Morons realized they were stuck with 3,500 obstructed seats. I always thought that was stupid, but to find out it happened after coming from the same situation in Winnipeg is absolutely brainless!!

yeah no kidding, its funny how it worked out eh.

Really the suns have there arena updated to like most new arenas, I didn't know that. I thought they eventually needed a new one.

yeah no kidding, its funny how it worked out eh.

Really the suns have there arena updated to like most new arenas, I didn't know that. I thought they eventually needed a new one.

I wouldn't call it funny, more like painful, but if that had to happen in order for them to sell the team & have Gretzky jump on board, then it was worth it. But extremely painful.

As for the Suns arena, here's a little info on the expansion:

http://www.americawestarena.com/news/expansion.shtml

I HUGELY miss the Jets, hate the Coyotes, and was among the 13,200 fans at games in the 'Peg. Which is OVER the NHL average, even today, but especially in the early 80's, when the new 19,000 and 20,000 seat arenas weren't OPEN yet. To AVERAGE 13,200 fans in an arena that only held 14,000 (with some awfully crappy seats in the upper corners!) is a lot better than the Mighty Ducks do, or the Sharks did in their first few seasons. The ONLY reason the Jets moved is the greedy owner not getting his new arena paid for by the cith of Winnipeg.

BTW, Winnipeg has less crime than almost any American TOWN, let alone CITY. It's VERY safe to walk around downtown and the south part of town. I've never really been to the north end much, but imagine that it's pretty safe, too, since I never hear much about crime in Winnipeg.

And, I'm an American who lives 145 miles from Winnipeg, in that "minor league" city of Grand Forks, ND. Where we have the best-rated hockey arena in North America. Even ahead of the Xcel Energy Center or the ACC.

Man the Jets were so great to watch! As a big Canucks fan, watching these 2 teams face off each year was so exciting! They really had a great rivalry!

Apparently the new arena has left room to expand I heard somewhere. From all these arguements, I have taken from it that WInnipeg could be just as fine a hockey city as lots of ones that are already in this league, with a good system of course.

I also took from those attendance figures - why on earth does Quebec not have an NHL team? I've always been told they were a great hockey town, and they were above average attendance more than half of the time, so can anyone tell me this?

The Quebec government wouldn't step in and save them. I do not recall any businesspeople from Quebec City trying to build an arena to keep the team in Quebec. To top that off, there wasn't the passion to keep the team in Quebec that there was in Winnipeg (35,000+ showed up for a "Save the Jets" rally). They were a great hockey town, but for some reason, never showed it when Denver businessmen came knocking on the door.

Apparently the new arena has left room to expand I heard somewhere. From all these arguements, I have taken from it that WInnipeg could be just as fine a hockey city as lots of ones that are already in this league, with a good system of course.

That is correct. Appearantly the new arena could easily put in 900 seats, all unobstructed, making the total capacity 16,000. Not the biggest rink, but still enough to put an NHL team in. Adding any more seats would be silly, as it would compromise our beautiful new arena.

but the expansion of the old Winnipeg arena was blamed for the poor sight lines. Again, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Winnipeg Is an AHL city, not NHL.

BTW, the crime numbers were backed up but the moderators deleted them for those who would like to believe that Winnipeg isn't any more dangerous than any other Canadian city (3.4 murders per 100 000 people in Winnipeg vs the Canadian average of 1.7)

but the expansion of the old Winnipeg arena was blamed for the poor sight lines. Again, those who fal to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Winnipeg Is an AHL city, not NHL.

BTW, the crime numbers were backed up but Buffaloed deleted them for those who would like to believe that Winnipeg isn't any more dangerous than any other Canadian city (3.4 murders per 100 000 people in Winnipeg vs the Canadian average of 1.7)

Mac, here you are again bashing Winnipeg, claiming its some crime-ridden cesspool (damn, sp?), and telling people who LIVE THERE or visit there on MANY occasions that their wrong because you read some stats and had one bad experience. Having grown up in Winnipeg and since moved to Jacksonville FL, I can tell you that I felt 300% safer walking around Winnipeg than I do down here, just as I feel safer in Winnipeg than I do in most other cities I've visited in Canada. This business that Winnipeg is a terrible crime capital is absolute nonsense. Sure cars get stolen, and a few drug addicts kill their 'loving' spouses every once in a while, but serious violent crime is rare to the average citizen.

One can make an arguement saying Winnipeg is a minor league town, but you're not making it. You DO have 'something' against the city, as you've admitted it in the past.

I'm not sure how wise adding on to the new arena would be, but simply because it didn't work in the past doesn't mean we'd be doomed to repeat history. The archetects would simply have to be careful to ensure that it doesn't ruin the sightlines in the building, simple as that. If they do, then it doesn't get done.

Those who aren't closely familiar with the city really have no clue as to its ability to support the team, as it goes beyond stats and numbers. The only arguments I really read on these boards against Winnipeg are individuals from far-away places quoting attendance statistics and claiming that they know exactly what Winnipeg can and cannot support. Could Winnipeg put 3 more thousand people in the stands in a new arena for the NHL? I have little doubt. My concern would more be for the arena size (too small right now in all likelihood), and corporate support. Fan support wasn't an issue before, and it wouldn't be now.

My roomate is from Winnipeg, he was 16 when the Jets left. He wears Jets jerseys, t-shirts, hats, jackets. He has a jets flag on his wall. He has a Jets screensaver on his laptop. He drinks his coffee in the morning out of a Jets mug. He talks about the Jets.

I am going to kill him.

They had very cool jerseys.

Mac, here you are again bashing Winnipeg, claiming its some crime-ridden cesspool....

I only used the crime stats provided by Global tv in Winnipeg.

Of course Winnipeg is safer than Jacksonville Florida. i'm not comparing it to USA cities, just Canadian, where the stats tell the story: a murder per capita rate double the national rate.

Did Winnipeg really support their NHL team? No the average attendance was consistently below the league average, which I provided before (backe up my claims that Winnipeg if an AHL city)

How the devil someone can bash Quebec city is beyond me. They were out to support their team when it counted-- at the games not after the fact and the team is lost!


and speaking of making claims and not backing them up, where is the proof that this arena can be expanded without affecting sight lines which was the problem with the old arena?

The main point is Winnipeg has more serious issues than pursuing a pipe dream. Support the AHL team and get gang activity and violent crimes in check.

I only used the crime stats provided by Global tv in Winnipeg.

Of course Winnipeg is safer than Jacksonville Florida. i'm not comparing it to USA cities, just Canadian, where the stats tell the story: a murder per capita rate double the national rate.

Did Winnipeg really support their NHL team? No the average attendance was consistently below the league average, which I provided before (backe up my claims that Winnipeg if an AHL city)

How the devil someone can bash Quebec city is beyond me. They were out to support their team when it counted-- at the games not after the fact and the team is lost!


and speaking of making claims and not backing them up, where is the proof that this arena can be expanded without affecting sight lines which was the problem with the old arena?

The main point is Winnipeg has more serious issues than pursuing a pipe dream. Support the AHL team and get gang activity and violent crimes in check.

Again, while using attendance numbers to dictate how much a city cared and supported for their team may be a quick, easy way to do it (and no one loves quick and easy debates, regardless of how it affects the facts like HF Boards does), it is very much flawed. As I said, unless you lived in Winnipeg or knew it very well, it is impossible to know how much the fans there supported the team, how integral it was to the city, or how well a team would be supported in the new arena.

You've never lived in Winnipeg. You've admitted in the past that you hate the city because of one bad incident. As a former Winnipegger, I am very sorry that you had a bad experience, but your constant bashing of the city is baseless. You quoting one stat does not make you an expert on the city, nor does it even make what you're implying. You don't know a thing about the city, its crime problem, or its gang problem. You had one bad experience in a visit. I've had none in 25 years of living there.

Discuss the issue at hand. Crime and gangs are not the issue. Whether you like the city or not is not the issue. Local support, both corportate and fan, is the issue. And stating an average attendance figure doesnt come CLOSE to being a definitive damnation of the city's hopes.

And I hope you weren't referring to me, because I never stated that the arena can be expanded without affecting sight lines. I simply said that we didn't know if expanding it without affecting sightlines was possible.That it could be, and all it would take would be smart archetects to realize that any expansion would have to include not affecting sight lines.

*bump*

*bump*Just curious, J4L ... do you post on Darren Ford's site?

I've had a few conversations with posters there. Seem like a good bunch, with a couple of exceptions.

Edit: I only ask because I think I recall you mentioning the site a few times before, in posts here. If not, please disregard.

Just curious, J4L ... do you post on Darren Ford's site?

I've had a few conversations with posters there. Seem like a good bunch, with a couple of exceptions.

Edit: I only ask because I think I recall you mentioning the site a few times before, in posts here. If not, please disregard.

As a matter of fact, I do post on Darren Ford's site. I'm glad you have checked it out. There is a strong movement to lure an NHL team back to Winnipeg at present time. We sold out our new building for both World Junior exhibition games (15,015). Hopefully the Jets will be back soon. I have my fingers crossed!

If Winnipeg was an American city, there wouldn't even be a discussion here about bringing the team back.

If Winnipeg was an American city, there wouldn't even be a discussion here about bringing the team back.
how so?

how so?



If Winnipeg was an american city, people would be talking about what a horrible hockey market it is/was. The only reason people want the team to come back is because it was a canadian team. There are plenty of teams in the states that average more per game than the Jets did, yet people want those teams to be moved somewhere else, namely Winnipeg.

If Winnipeg was an american city, people would be talking about what a horrible hockey market it is/was. The only reason people want the team to come back is because it was a canadian team. There are plenty of teams in the states that average more per game than the Jets did, yet people want those teams to be moved somewhere else, namely Winnipeg.
Winnipeg is a city in love with hockey... the cities in the US that are being talked about are not.

When you compare Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville, Florida, Anaheim, etc... to Winnipeg, they don't stand a chance in terms of popularity. If an organization is going to average 13,000 fans a game and not sell out every night, you might as well have the team located in a city that actually cares for the sport... not just cares, but loves the sport.

Winnipeg is a city in love with hockey...

obviously, since they built a nice, big rink to house their massive fan base.


When you compare Atlanta, Carolina, Nashville, Florida, Anaheim, etc... to Winnipeg, they don't stand a chance in terms of popularity.

In canada, yes. People in the states don't even know what a Winnipeg is.

If an organization is going to average 13,000 fans a game and not sell out every night, you might as well have the team located in a city that actually cares for the sport... not just cares, but loves the sport.


Thank you for proving my point.

What with the "311"?

I'm sure you are aware that's slang for "Ku Klux Klan".

obviously, since they built a nice, big rink to house their massive fan base.
They built a medium sized arena to fit an American Hockey League team.

Funny, we keep hearing about the "Great fans of Winnipeg", yet other than two seasons the average attendance has been higher in Phoenix each season....

We hear Winnipeg fans love hockey, yet, unless it is a short term committment (ie a World Junior Championship, which they did a fantastic job hosting in 99 or a Pan Am games) yet they don't show it by ACTUALLY attending the games. The Jets were below the league average attendance almost their entire existence. Fans who love hockey show up at games, not sit at home and watch their team DIE!

We hear Winnipeg fans showed up in droves to support their Jets when they were about to become Coyotes, but WHERE were these people when it mattered: attending the games and helping the team make some money when the team might actually have been saved?

We hear the city of Winnipeg is hoping to lure a team back with a brand spanking new arena, but why would they have only 15 000 seats, which is FAR BELOW the NHL standard?

The city courted the Penguins who play in probably the biggest dump and couldn't even get a sniff. Another used Winnipeg as leverage to get their new arena built. I'll go on record right here: It wasn't Nashville, who have one hell of a great hockey fan base developing right now and everyone would know this if they opened up their eyes, It was the New Jersey Devils. They got their arena deal and Winnipeg served its purpose.


You can cross all the digits you want, and maybe even hold your breath (please do), but the NHL will never return to Winnipeg!

They built a medium sized arena to fit an American Hockey League team.

Funny, we keep hearing about the "Great fans of Winnipeg", yet other than two seasons the average attendance has been higher in Phoenix each season....

We hear Winnipeg fans love hockey, yet, unless it is a short term committment (ie a World Junior Championship, which they did a fantastic job hosting in 99 or a Pan Am games) yet they don't show it by ACTUALLY attending the games. The Jets were below the league average attendance almost their entire existence. Fans who love hockey show up at games, not sit at home and watch their team DIE!

We hear Winnipeg fans showed up in droves to support their Jets when they were about to become Coyotes, but WHERE were these people when it mattered: attending the games and helping the team make some money when the team might actually have been saved?

We hear the city of Winnipeg is hoping to lure a team back with a brand spanking new arena, but why would they have only 15 000 seats, which is FAR BELOW the NHL standard?

The city courted the Penguins who play in probably the biggest dump and couldn't even get a sniff. Another used Winnipeg as leverage to get their new arena built. I'll go on record right here: It wasn't Nashville, who have one hell of a great hockey fan base developing right now and everyone would know this if they opened up their eyes, It was the New Jersey Devils. They got their arena deal and Winnipeg served its purpose.


You can cross all the digits you want, and maybe even hold your breath (please do), but the NHL will never return to Winnipeg!
I think I have made this same post 10 times.

Winnipeg is a great hockey market...unless they need to buy tickets.

Oh yes! The Winnipeg Haters Club thread!

Gimme a break. Unless you live here and know "exactly" what goes on then save the useless comments. There has GOT to be a better way to spend your time...but probably not *ahem*

We could have easily beat out Tampa in terms of attendance if we sold tickets for $7 a game. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Tampa selling Stanley Cup Final tickets for that same price? I also read that game 7 was not sold out until the afternoon of the game. Can you honestly say that would happen if a Winnipeg-based team reached the final?

They sold 200 seats for $8 dollars a ticket as a giveback to the fans and as a promotion on every game day during the playoffs like they did the previous year. They literally had people camped out for DAYS to get them on game day. Technically you could say they werent sold out because they put these seats on sale at 8AM on game day, but all the other seats were sold out for about 2 weeks before the game. They also had about 5,000 people outside the plazas watching on big screens. Have no idea what your sources are but they are way off in their information. The team was bad for years so attendance wasnt going to be all that great when they were dead last in the league practically every year. Heck, even the Red Wings had lackluster attendance when they were bad in the 70s and 80s.

Oh yes! The Winnipeg Haters Club thread!

Gimme a break. Unless you live here and know "exactly" what goes on then save the useless comments. There has GOT to be a better way to spend your time...but probably not *ahem*
Born and raised in Kenora. I know all about the Jets, Winnipeg, and the fact that there are a select few that pine for the days of the return of the team.

There is always opinion, but the facts are the facts. If the Jets would have had more than league average attendance for their entire NHL history, then I would be less inclined to feel the way I do.

And don't make it personal...I happen to like Winnipeg.

I feel sorry for them, as they are clued out. Mac has a hard-on for making Winnipeg look bad, so anything he says needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The AHL Moose have drawn very well over the past 8 years. This year, they are the top team in terms of attendance in all of minor league Hockey (9,000 per game).
**EDITED OUT CHILDISH COMMENT**

Winnipeg does a fine job making itself look bad; no help needed
I live in reality, have a fine life, no need to feel sorry for me. You on the other hand are clinging to the past and a pipe dream. I feel sorry for you. Fact is, Dancing Gabe has moved on; time for you to do the same.
The Moose have drawn well; 9000 a game. Looks like Winnipeg has ound it's niche---Minbor league city. The fact is, like slats said, unless you include the word free, NHL tickets will sit in the box office, just like they did in the past. Time to move on.
If you have time to bump a thread on its way to thread heaven, maybe it is you that needs to find something better to do.
EDIT: looks like Winnipeg stats are being inflated...AGAIN: http://www.theahl.com/AHLStatistics0304/attendance.html
Manitoba (http://www.pointstreak.com/framed/prostats/teamplayerstats.html?teamid=8932&seasonid=271) 276,562 40 6,914



Maybe the ECHL.... :lol

Oh yes! The Winnipeg Haters Club thread!

Gimme a break. Unless you live here and know "exactly" what goes on then save the useless comments. There has GOT to be a better way to spend your time...but probably not *ahem*

How are presenting the FACTS Useless? If Winnipeg cared about the team they would have attended the games instead of whining about it for eternity after it was too LATE!

EDIT: looks like Winnipeg stats are being inflated...AGAIN: http://www.theahl.com/AHLStatistics0304/attendance.html
Manitoba (http://www.pointstreak.com/framed/prostats/teamplayerstats.html?teamid=8932&seasonid=271) 276,562 40 6,914
Maybe the ECHL.... :lol

Maybe you should stop misleading people by providing LAST YEARS attendance figures. We are #1 in all leagues this year in terms of attendance for minor leagues. Go back and check your link. Better yet, I'll do it for you:

2004-05 AHL Attendance (http://www.theahl.com/AHLStatistics0405/attendance.html)

Born and raised in Kenora. I know all about the Jets, Winnipeg, and the fact that there are a select few that pine for the days of the return of the team.

There is always opinion, but the facts are the facts. If the Jets would have had more than league average attendance for their entire NHL history, then I would be less inclined to feel the way I do.

And don't make it personal...I happen to like Winnipeg.

Despite the old arena having over 5,000 obstructed view seats, we still managed to attract approx. 13,200 fans per game during the Jets NHL history. That's very impressive when you consider there were only 9,000 good seats at the old arena.

Additionally, it was the FANS that bought over 90% of tickets to games. Not like today, when corporations buy up 1/2 the seats (most of the premium/club seats), especially in the Southern US. That's why attendance is announced at 15,600, etc, when it appears an 18,000 seat building is less than 1/2 full to many observers.

Additionally, it was the FANS that bought over 90% of tickets to games. Not like today, when corporations buy up 1/2 the seats (most of the premium/club seats), especially in the Southern US.
I see that Hockeyfan02 already corrected your misinformation about Tampa, but I'd like to see where you got these particular statistics from. I find it hard to believe that half of any arena's tickets are purchased by corporations, and it's also hard to believe that this information would be made public anyway.

Maybe you should stop misleading people by providing LAST YEARS attendance figures. We are #1 in all leagues this year in terms of attendance for minor leagues. Go back and check your link. Better yet, I'll do it for you:

2004-05 AHL Attendance (http://www.theahl.com/AHLStatistics0405/attendance.html)
And exactly how is it that providing the last complete season as evidence of attendance misleading? Or is it that the 14 games from this year are a better basis of evidence? Poor argument.

Obviously, you want to create something that just isn't there....an overwhelming support from the Jets to return to the NHL from people other than those few die hards that already exist.

I see that Hockeyfan02 already corrected your misinformation about Tampa, but I'd like to see where you got these particular statistics from. I find it hard to believe that half of any arena's tickets are purchased by corporations, and it's also hard to believe that this information would be made public anyway.

Me too, in fact according to Craig Leopold Nashville has one of the highest percentages of non corporate season ticket bases. We have the die hard fans, we just need better corporate support, competing with the Titans for the corporate dollar is an uphill battle here.

I shouldn't even bother answering this. I had said that Winnipeg is leading Minor League hockey in attendance THIS YEAR. The forum member in question accused me of inflating these figures, and provided a link to LAST YEARS attendance figures.

It really does not matter though. I have no idea what the member in question has against the city of Winnipeg, but let's keep the topic about hockey. If you reread this thread, the member in question does everything to sway the topic off course to things that are irrelevant to the topic. The crime rate, gangs, personal bad experiences in the city, etc.

Contrary to what you think, most Winnipeggers want to see the return of the Jets. However at the same time the city is taking a "wait and see" approach. Once the lockout is over, we will know if it is economically feasible to bring an NHL team back to Winnipeg. Keep in mind the city is in much better economic condition than in 1996.

Me too, in fact according to Craig Leopold Nashville has one of the highest percentages of non corporate season ticket bases. We have the die hard fans, we just need better corporate support, competing with the Titans for the corporate dollar is an uphill battle here.
Interesting stuff!

As you suggest, corporate support is VERY important to NHL owners, so claiming some high percentage of non-corporate fans doesn't really support a case for acquiring an NHL team anyway.

I shouldn't even bother answering this. I had said that Winnipeg is leading Minor League hockey in attendance THIS YEAR. The forum member in question accused me of inflating these figures, and provided a link to LAST YEARS attendance figures.
Actually you said that the Moose have drawn very well for the last 8 years.

Either way, I wasn't put on this earth to crush your dreams of an NHL team coming back to Winterpeg. For your sake, I wish you good luck...

Actually you said that the Moose have drawn very well for the last 8 years.

Either way, I wasn't put on this earth to crush your dreams of an NHL team coming back to Winterpeg. For your sake, I wish you good luck...


Thanks. I hope we do get a team, as well as Quebec will get back it's team. It's just a shame that NHL hockey has been taken from cities where it is loved, and moved to places where hockey is a novelty at best, it seems.

My job is to support people with disabilities and build them up, not tear them a new one. Jets4Life has just become a favourite whipping boy due to his *ahem* character. Actually, I don't really have anything against Winnipeg, just the criminals that are overrunning the city. Hell, I would love to take my kids to the Assiniboine zoo, but it is the un caged animals that keep me away. I have a great Grandmother living there who hasn't seen two of my children because I cannot put my family at risk by bringing them there.


Criminals overrunning the city? Under that logic, I guess we should move the Detroit Red Wings to Salt Lake City, utah. Detroit has had one of the highest crime rates for years. I don't see how that is relevant to the thread....

Additionally, it was the FANS that bought over 90% of tickets to games. Not like today, when corporations buy up 1/2 the seats (most of the premium/club seats), especially in the Southern US. That's why attendance is announced at 15,600, etc, when it appears an 18,000 seat building is less than 1/2 full to many observers.

Do you have a source where these statistics are posted or are you just making stuff up like you did about Tampa earlier?

I loved the Jets as much as the next Winnipegger, but chances are mighty slim. I used to work on the broadcasts, for local TV and export, and there was no better gig in town. http://www.hfboards.com/images/smilies/smiles.gif

:cry: :cry: ....
You bring up a month old post and suggest I'm derailing the thread? :lol

You bring up a month old post and suggest I'm derailing the thread? :lol
I seem to recall the thread topic stating "Who Loved the Winnipeg Jets?", not "The problems of Inner City Crime in Winnipeg". :shakehead

If your posts hadn't been deleted, everyone would see it was you with a personal attack that took this thread off topic.

If your posts hadn't been deleted, everyone would see it was you with a personal attack that took this thread off topic.


whatever...

I won't be baited by you. All I can say is Winnipeg is one of the greatest cities in Canada. We have a state of the art arena, and a passionate hockey fan base. We will be ready when the NHL comes knocking. Go Jets!! :yo:

Winnipeg is a pipe dream. If they were serious about an NHL team, they would have built an NHL size arena. Unfortunately for the few day dream believers in Manitoba, their hearts are going to be frequently broken. They are going to be the NHL's *****es until the shine is off their arena. Teams will use them as leverage to get their own new arena, much like the Devils did. If it ever came down to actually moving though, Winnipeg will never get serious consideration as long as Houston, Seattle, Las Vegas, Kansas City, Cleveland, and Quebec City don't have a team. Time to get out and support the Moose before you lose them too. Maybe try to get a WHL franchise as well.


BTW, I found something I like about Winnipeg: Clodhoppers! Delicious. I can't believe two guys that began working in a basement in Winnipeg have created such a powerful little company.

nice to see that for the third time in four team canada telecasts, the tsn commentators have said the nhl should be in winnipeg.

....and Pierre McGuire comments (and that is who is saying Winnipeg should again have a team) are usually diregarded around here as being the ramblings of an idiot. Not that I agree with those who don't like McGuire. Personally I like him, but would have to agree to disagree with him on this point. ;)

....and Pierre McGuire comments (and that is who is saying Winnipeg should again have a team) are usually diregarded around here as being the ramblings of an idiot. Not that I agree with those who don't like McGuire. Personally I like him, but would have to agree to disagree with him on this point. ;)

actually i beg differ. it seems clear to me as to where the ramblings of an idiot are coming from around here.

Don't be so hard on yourself, Hawker. I'm sure if you ask someone to help, you can get the grammar on that last post cleaned up.

Winnipeg is a pipe dream. If they were serious about an NHL team, they would have built an NHL size arena. Unfortunately for the few day dream believers in Manitoba, their hearts are going to be frequently broken. They are going to be the NHL's *****es until the shine is off their arena. Teams will use them as leverage to get their own new arena, much like the Devils did. If it ever came down to actually moving though, Winnipeg will never get serious consideration as long as Houston, Seattle, Las Vegas, Kansas City, Cleveland, and Quebec City don't have a team. Time to get out and support the Moose before you lose them too.

Seattle will never get a team since they don't have an arena. There is no interest in Vegas. The odds of the NHL coming to KC are pretty slim. The NHL just put a team in Ohio, so I doubt Cleveland would be a top destination. Houston is the only American city that deserves an NHL team, as they have been shafted time and time again.

I, for one, would love to see a team in Quebec City, but they really need a new arena. The Copps Coliseum in Hamilton would require extensive renovations to foot an NHL team there. Winnipeg's economy is in the best shape it has been in 25 years. In the mid 90's, Winnipeg was in decline. Times have changed, and just like Minnesota, we will one day see an NHL team faceoff at the MTS Centre, despite the mayor of MacAppolis' objections! :joker:

:lol:

Houston, Seattle, Las Vegas, Kansas City, Cleveland, and Quebec City don't have a team. Time to get out and support the Moose before you lose them too. Maybe try to get a WHL franchise as well.

Hmmm... so Quebec city should get a team before Winnipeg. Winnipeg and Quebec city are almost identical in size and Winnipeg has a brand new arena.

You're making a far better argument for the fact you're simply a hater over the fact that Winnipeg has no chance at the NHL.

Time for a new hobby, you're arguments are rinsed out.

Quebec acutally supported their team the way that counts: By going to games. They were over the league average attendance almost every year of their existence. They were brought down by a complete idiot named MArcel Aubut. They also had to deal with the taxes in the province of Quebec that made them unable to continue. Quebec never deserved to lose their team.

The MTS has a capacity of 15 000 and change. All but 22 or 23 teams draw in excess of 15000. What business man in their right mind would take on a franchise in a building that doesn't allow for him to even get to the average attendance, even if he could find 15 000 willing to pay NHL prices in Winnipeg?

The MTS has a capacity of 15 000 and change. All but 22 or 23 teams draw in excess of 15000. What business man in their right mind would take on a franchise in a building that doesn't allow for him to even get to the average attendance, even if he could find 15 000 willing to pay NHL prices in Winnipeg?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2004

pittsburgh 11,877 per game
carolina 12,171 per game
nashville 13,177 per game

these are the possibilities

The MTS has a capacity of 15 000 and change. All but 22 or 23 teams draw in excess of 15000. What business man in their right mind would take on a franchise in a building that doesn't allow for him to even get to the average attendance, even if he could find 15 000 willing to pay NHL prices in Winnipeg?


The new arena could be renovated to make room for 900 extra club seats, without compromising the quality of the building. That would leave us with over 3000 luxury/club seating. That's where the real money is. It would (correct me if I am wrong), put us ahead of most markets in the NHL.

How's that covered football stadium in Winnipeg coming along? The one with the big water park?

Pittsburgh has already said no.

Nashville's average ticket is $42.50; They draw 13 177 per game. That works out to a gate of approx. $22 960 922.50 over 41 games. To make that same amount in Winnipeg, drawing the 15 000 that some claim they can draw (remains to be seen--- they didn't in the past) They need to have an average ticket price of $44.80.

To work in Winnipeg, the owners need to have a sell out EVERY NIGHT to make it worth their while. They also require the Canadian dollar to hold that 0.80 exchange for these numbers to remain solid. The dollar may or may not hold on: Busheconomics suggest that the Canadian dollar may rise vs the US dollar, but this is not what Canada wants, being an exporting country, wo we may see some adjustments to encourage the canadian dollar to fall vs the US dollar.

Why would ANY of the 3 look at Winnipeg and think that they can make a better go of it there than say any American city that currently doesn't have an NHL franchise?

How's that covered football stadium in Winnipeg coming along? The one with the big water park?

http://www.bluebombers.com/index/news/id.857

since the press release just came out on the 21st, i imagine the construction of it hasn't been completed over the holidays.

The new arena could be renovated to make room for 900 extra club seats, without compromising the quality of the building. That would leave us with over 3000 luxury/club seating. That's where the real money is. It would (correct me if I am wrong), put us ahead of most markets in the NHL.Again with the renovations....
If they thought they could draw an NHL team, why not make the building NHL ready?

No the people of Winnipeg DID NOT support the Jets. 8 consecutive years before they moved to Phoenix, they were under the average attendance for the league. I don't care how many people showed up to cry AFTER the team was lost! Fact is, if they showed up at the games, maybe the team would still be there!

How's that covered football stadium in Winnipeg coming along? The one with the big water park?


It looks like a go. It will be located on the western outskirts of the city, on the Red River Exhibition grounds. It's already been dubbed the "Toilet Bowl". Check it out:

http://img146.exs.cx/img146/3400/board26vw.jpg

Quebec acutally supported their team the way that counts: By going to games. They were over the league average attendance almost every year of their existence.
Times have changed, there's a larger demographic of hockey fans in Winnipeg, especially the children of the baby boomers that can now actually afford to go to games. The fans that actually showed up were renowned for their energy and understanding of the game... so why the low attendance? Because the rink was a piece of trash. The upper decks were not worth sitting in. When people had to pay $40-$50-$60 a head to sit on cramped hard wood seats with an obstructed view of the action, it isn't hard to figure out why fans didn't buy what the Jets were selling.


[/QUOTE]They were brought down by a complete idiot named MArcel Aubut. They also had to deal with the taxes in the province of Quebec that made them unable to continue. Quebec never deserved to lose their team. [/QUOTE]

Jets were also brought down by a complete idiot...or three. They also struggled with taxes. Winnipeg never deserved to lose their team.

Sorry MacDaddy... BUT you still haven't dazzled anyone with your supposed FACTS that will ultimatly determine the fate of the NHL in Winnipeg.

Plz, think harder, waste more time... and when you get shut down for the 100th time just change your screen name again. Not a big deal.

Barry Shankerow went above and beyond to save the franchise. If people had gone to the games, maybe he could have justified a new arena being built.

Barry Shankerow went above and beyond to save the franchise. If people had gone to the games, maybe he could have justified a new arena being built.

lol, barry shenkarow = winnipeg's hero !!!

now that's funny.

Sorry MacDaddy... BUT you still haven't dazzled anyone with your supposed FACTS that will ultimatly determine the fate of the NHL in Winnipeg.

Plz, think harder, waste more time... and when you get shut down for the 100th time just change your screen name again. Not a big deal.Wow, another personal attack when faced with some cold hard numbers and NO response to defend your position. I'm sorry you are unable to see the reality of Winnipeg: AMerican Hockey League city, not an NHL city.

And the name change was by popular demand from my many supporters among the Hockey's Future Community who wanted to see me return to my original handle. :D

It looks like a go. It will be located on the western outskirts of the city, on the Red River Exhibition grounds. It's already been dubbed the "Toilet Bowl". Check it out:

http://img146.exs.cx/img146/3400/board26vw.jpg

Hot dawg! NFL here we come!
:lol

Barry Shankerow went above and beyond to save the franchise. If people had gone to the games, maybe he could have justified a new arena being built.

that's the biggest load of complete and utter BULLS*** I've ever heard in my life. He's the reason why the team left in the first place. He told the citizens of Winnipeg that if they raised X amount of money the team would stay, but in fact he had already sold the team.

Also, the MTS Centre is big enough seat wise to house an NHL team. Hesigner made sure during the planning stages of the arena that it would be big enough.

I'm a Canucks fan, but the Jets ruled when they weren't playing the Canucks. They had more heart and determination then any other team combined. Don't tell people that are FROM Winnipeg that we don't support hockey. Would you go pay $70 a ticket for crappy seats in an arena that was falling apart?

Stop insulting the city that many of us live in. You know absolutely nothing about how this city is.

This city is on the uprise, and with the right kind of CBA this city will see the Jets back. Regardless what an uneducated prune like you thinks.

Hot dawg! NFL here we come!
:lol

forget that.... the cfl is just fine !!!!

we want the nhl

GO JETS GO !!!

Blame the MEC, not Shankerow for the deal to save the team going sour.

They had more heart and determination then any other team combined.
The Jets in the NHL were an utter disgrace.

Blame the MEC, not Shankerow for the deal to save the team going sour.

MEC? Mountain Equipment Co-op did not force the Jets out of Winnipeg! :D

The Jets in the NHL were an utter disgrace.

:shakehead

you try having a good team when the NHL took away every single one of the players that won Avco cups in the WHA and then never being able to recover

http://www.hfboards.com/images/smilies/shakeshead.gif

you try having a good team when the NHL took away every single one of the players that won Avco cups in the WHA and then never being able to recoverWHO did the NHL take away?

WHO did the NHL take away?

kent nilsson, terry ruskowski, barry long

WHO did the NHL take away?


The WHA teams were allowed to keep 2 or 3 players, and the rest were dispersed to the other NHL clubs. The Jets choose Peter Sullivan (not one of the better choices they made), and the Oilers choose Wayne Gretzky.

wasn't really into hockey when Winnipeg was there

kent nilsson, terry ruskowski, barry long
Oh. You mean their rights were returned to their proper NHL owners.

There are entirely too many people taking personal shots in this thread on all sides, and it needs to stop now. This is tremendously off-topic already, but give it one more try to have a constructive conversation.

I have seen nothing to tell me that the 'Peg doesn't have passionnate hockey fans. Probably somewhta like Ottawa in terms of fan base. What percentage of an average NHL crowd is made up of hockey fans digging into their pockets to go to a game ? Expense acct. and corporate seats fills the arena. Now if this somehow gives someone pleasure in downgrading Winnipeg because though they have loyal fans, they may lack big industry, well what the hell is there to say. I'm not taking a shot at MacDaddy, he's got his problems with the city and they've been discussed.
Personally, I get more pleasure out of seeing hockey in a city that cares. A city that's talk radio is full of people arguing about which goalie should be in there or whether the top scorer in the AHL should be brought up. You get this in Winnipeg and Quebec and a few other cities. I suspect you don't get this in TB, Anaheim to name a few. This isn't a shot at TB fans because they are as loyal and rabid as I am about my team. It isn't the fan's fault that the team they are passionnate about isn't the big story in town. Just like it isn't the fault of the average Winnipegger that the city isn't filled with companies willing to drop their entertainment budget on what the NHL is selling as entertainment these days.

I'm just going to throw my two cents out there. I'd be 100% in favor of brining hockey back to Winnipeg. Crime has nothing to do with having a team in a city, look at NYC, Detroit, Los Angeles. Point proven. Secondly, the team folded because the talent wasn't there. They had decent seasons, but no great ones, not the city's fault at all. Thirdly, the arena was a bit too small. That can be fixed no problem, expansion, new building, or many other way's.

The only problem I see is that the city may not have enough people to support a franchise. Only about 500,000 live around Winnipeg, or close to that number, but compared to all of the other NHL cities, they are probably the smallest.

Toronto: 4 million
Detroit: 4 million
NYC: 16 million
Boston: 6-7 million
Chicago: 8 million
Montreal: 2 million

Compared to the Original Six hockey cities, they are ridiculously small. Then take into account the southern cities (Pheonix, Los Angeles, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Atlanta) it just got washed away.

If Winniped were a city over 1 million, I'd say put it there in an instant. But even with 500,000 people, they can still have a franchise IMO.

Winnipeg's population is approx. 702,000.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo05a.htm (http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo05a.htm)

Simple fact of life. Winnipeg does not fit the market or demographics the NHL looks for. Winnipeg does not have the corporate base nor even the base population. The NHL markets to corporate ticket holders and boasts the highest per-capita income of bums in the seats of any pro sports league in North America. That is what sells advertsing and sponsorship dollars in the local market and when Bettman was peddling franchises for expansion that was front and centre his biggest selling point. The average fan is not high on Bettman's list of priorities. The beauty of the corporate fan for the NHL is that they are much less sensitive to high ticket prices.

As the Canadian Taxpayers federation noted in its 2004 budget submissisions to the government:

There is little question that Manitoba’s economy has been underperforming for many years. Though not the worst economy in the country, Manitoba ranks 8th among the provinces, when measuring average economic growth between 1993 and projected 2005. In that same time frame, the national average for Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth was 5.21 per cent, while Manitoba showed a meager 4.48 per cent annual growth rate.

NHL return to Winnnipeg? - "Not in the foreseable future" was how Bettman put it. Allow me translate Bettman-speak which is a dialect of lawyerese with which I am intimately familar. The translation - "Not a snowball's chance in h_e_ll".

I was one of the Jets biggest fans. I grew up near Melville and would listen to every game on CJOB and whoever broadcast them before that. At night they weould turn down the power and I would only be able to hear about every 20th word yet I would still listen. I would listen to pre-season, etc. I did not get a chance to read the rest of the posts yet. I will. It would be nice to talk to some knowledgeable Jet fans. To tell you the truth it still hurts a bit to talk about them.

First off there is nobody in Winnipeg capable of making the kind of financial commitement that is required to run an NHL franchise. Winnipeg couldn't support the team when ticket prices were half of what they are today...There's not a chance in hell a team would survive under the current environment.

The building, however nice it may be, is not big enough to be an NHL arena.

Winnipeggers should embrace the Moose. It's a good product, 2nd best league in the world. The NHL is a pipe dream for Winnipeg.

First off there is nobody in Winnipeg capable of making the kind of financial commitement that is required to run an NHL franchise. Winnipeg couldn't support the team when ticket prices were half of what they are today...There's not a chance in hell a team would survive under the current environment.

The building, however nice it may be, is not big enough to be an NHL arena.

Winnipeggers should embrace the Moose. It's a good product, 2nd best league in the world. The NHL is a pipe dream for Winnipeg.

to counter your first point, there are several individuals/families in winnipeg who have the means to purchase and operate an NHL franchise...

...from Canadian Business' Richest 100 Canadians (http://www.canadianbusiness.com/lifestyle/article.jsp;jsessionid=JNJLLAEKKCND?content=200412 06_63986_63986)

24. RIchardson family: $1.25 billion
31. Asper family: $1.09 billion
62. Peter Nygård: $552 million
92. Randall Moffat: $358 million

not to mention the Defehr family that was listed in '03 at $ 384 million (http://www.canadianbusiness.com/rich100/list.asp?page=5&sortBy=ID)

there are several reasons why the Jets struggled financially, but they had nothing to do with fan support. please expand on your statements so that i can address your views point by point.

thanks

And I thought it was my torch only to bear. ;) Winnipeg is a hockey town.

BUT....Winnipeg doesn't have the population or economic climate to have an NHL team.

I lived in Winnipeg, grew up in Kenora and think that as a place to live, Winnipeg is AWESOME.(Aside from what Mac would tell ya.... :D ,)

From a hockey standpoint, they are just not NHL material.

Winnipeg is both small and economically depressed. Further, Winnipeg would would also be a drag on the league as a whole. Smaller Canadian cities, Calgary, Edmonton and even Vancouver are very poor draws in the US. They bring down ticket sales and cost other teams money. Winnipeg would be even worse than these other cities.

The notion of putting an NHL is team is ludicrous. I've been to Winnipeg and it's an OK place. But so is Sudbury, and you wouldn't put an NHL team there either.

Being an outside observer, I can honestly say both sides (a team can survive in Winnipeg vs. a team can't) have compelling arguments and both sides can search the internet to prove their points. I am not about to say one way or the other which side makes the most compelling argument.

On my own I have called people I know in Winnipeg and surrounding areas and asked them for their opinion on whether or not a team will be there, whether a team can be there (can the area support it), and whether they care either way. This was back when the rumor that a "southern" team had called the mayor of Winnipeg to ask about moving their team there.

1) Everyone I asked would love to have an NHL team there. They loved all levels of hockey and would go to watch the NHL in Winnipeg (provided they could afford tickets - the cry of every fan, I think)

2) They all agreed that the area was not financially sound to support an NHL team. Their example of why included the lack of corporate sponsorship. Sorry, Jets nostalgists, my contacts said that it was not possible in today's (please note that word...) NHL.

3) None of them felt a team would ever be back.

I think that if the owners get their way in the CBA, that Winnipeg could get a team. Not right away, but could. Especially if a newer arean were built that did not have obstructed seating.

My last thought is a question: why, whenever talk about a Winnipeg NHL team is mentioned, does it involve the moving of another team? Why does it have to be about "taking" some other city's team? I think it shows incredible poor taste on the part of people (Winnipeggers only? no... but mostly) to want so badly for Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Nashville, and even Pittsburgh to lose their teams. But that's just my opinion, I suppose.

My last thought is a question: why, whenever talk about a Winnipeg NHL team is mentioned, does it involve the moving of another team? Why does it have to be about "taking" some other city's team? I think it shows incredible poor taste on the part of people (Winnipeggers only? no... but mostly) to want so badly for Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Nashville, and even Pittsburgh to lose their teams. But that's just my opinion, I suppose.

I wonder that too. I feel bad for Winnepeg people who truly loved the team to have it taken away, but I don't feel sorry for those who felt the heartbreak that want to take a hockey team from another city.

I think that if the owners get their way in the CBA, that Winnipeg could get a team. Not right away, but could. Especially if a newer arean were built that did not have obstructed seating.

We do have a new arena, and it has no obstructed seating. As well for those that keep on insisting that our arena isn't large enough, it is. The designers and Moose management made sure during the designing of the MTS Centre that it would be in line with what is regulation size for an NHL arena. IT IS!

My last thought is a question: why, whenever talk about a Winnipeg NHL team is mentioned, does it involve the moving of another team? Why does it have to be about "taking" some other city's team? I think it shows incredible poor taste on the part of people (Winnipeggers only? no... but mostly) to want so badly for Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Nashville, and even Pittsburgh to lose their teams. But that's just my opinion, I suppose.

Because we went through that heartbreak of our team being moved. Why don't we just take back the team that was rightfully Winnipeg's? Phoenix. That'd work out well, considering they were in about the same financial trouble as Winnipeg was before Gretzky became part owner.

I wonder that too. I feel bad for Winnepeg people who truly loved the team to have it taken away, but I don't feel sorry for those who felt the heartbreak that want to take a hockey team from another city.
Agreed, and like quartermaster I've often wondered what the deal is with people who want other cities to lose their teams. We're told that we MUST have empathy for Winnipeg fans or we're not "real hockey fans", but it's perfectly OK for them to have no empathy for us. Screwy

Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02
I wonder that too. I feel bad for Winnepeg people who truly loved the team to have it taken away, but I don't feel sorry for those who felt the heartbreak that want to take a hockey team from another city.

i don't think any winnipeg fan wants to see others go through the loss of a franchise.

the whole premise of a team relocating to winnipeg is that it would be preferable to a franchise folding.

Agreed, and like quartermaster I've often wondered what the deal is with people who want other cities to lose their teams. We're told that we MUST have empathy for Winnipeg fans or we're not "real hockey fans", but it's perfectly OK for them to have no empathy for us. Screwy

I think most of us are envious because the state of Florida has 2 NHL teams when you can fit the entire state into the province of Manitoba. It's not fair. I don't see why Florida gets two NHL teams while Winnipeg and Quebec get the shaft. Yes they have more people, but where the hell has the fan base been for either team until that team went to the finals? And look at the freaking American eastern coastline... 3 teams in NY, 2 in Penn, 1 in NJ, 1 in Carolina, 1 in Tennesee, and those states don't even make up a third of the land mass of Canada.

Winnipeg is both small and economically depressed. Further, Winnipeg would would also be a drag on the league as a whole. Smaller Canadian cities, Calgary, Edmonton and even Vancouver are very poor draws in the US. They bring down ticket sales and cost other teams money. Winnipeg would be even worse than these other cities.

The notion of putting an NHL is team is ludicrous. I've been to Winnipeg and it's an OK place. But so is Sudbury, and you wouldn't put an NHL team there either.

A: Vancouver is NOT a small Canadian city. How the hell did think that!?

B: Vancouver was the most exiting team to watch in the NHL last season next to Detriot. And thats a fact, not an oppinion.

B: Vancouver was the most exiting team to watch in the NHL last season next to Detriot. And thats a fact, not an oppinion.

It's an opinion.

I think most of us are envious because the state of Florida has 2 NHL teams when you can fit the entire state into the province of Manitoba. It's not fair. I don't see why Florida gets two NHL teams while Winnipeg and Quebec get the shaft.

The Florida teams' attendance figures are comparable to Quebec and Winnipeg.
http://www.hockeyresearch.com/mfoster/business/nhl_attn.html. More importantly, they were willing to build new arenas with luxury suites and had the corporate sponsors to fill those suites. Quebec and Winnipeg wouldn't build new arenas and were unable to remain financially competitive as a result. I don't know the details of Winnipeg's failure to build an NHL arena, but I did know someone in the Nordiques front office in the early 1990's. It was explained to me that the situation was hopeless, because even if the Nords managed to build a new arena, the corporate support wasn't there to buy the suites.

It's an opinion.

it's a fact

Vancouver was one of the more tuned in teams in the league last year... I don't know where someone got the idea that they're ones of the ones that are least drawn.

B: Vancouver was the most exiting team to watch in the NHL last season next to Detriot. And thats a fact, not an oppinion.

exiting? Is that a playoff reference? :lol

Winnipeg is both small and economically depressed. Further, Winnipeg would would also be a drag on the league as a whole. Smaller Canadian cities, Calgary, Edmonton and even Vancouver are very poor draws in the US. They bring down ticket sales and cost other teams money. Winnipeg would be even worse than these other cities.

The notion of putting an NHL is team is ludicrous. I've been to Winnipeg and it's an OK place. But so is Sudbury, and you wouldn't put an NHL team there either.

actually, calgary was the #5 draw on the road, vancouver #7 and edmonton #15, according to 2004 nhl attendance figures.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2004

i have no problem with people posting their view that winnipeg cannot support an nhl team. however, at least get the facts straight, especially if they'll be part of your reasoning.

The Florida teams' attendance figures are comparable to Quebec and Winnipeg.
http://www.hockeyresearch.com/mfoster/business/nhl_attn.html. More importantly, they were willing to build new arenas with luxury suites and had the corporate sponsors to fill those suites. Quebec and Winnipeg wouldn't build new arenas and were unable to remain financially competitive as a result. I don't know the details of Winnipeg's failure to build an NHL arena, but I did know someone in the Nordiques front office in the early 1990's. It was explained to me that the situation was hopeless, because even if the Nords managed to build a new arena, the corporate support wasn't there to buy the suites.

I'm not referring to the business aspect. I'm referring to the fact that it's Florida where hockey isn't exactly a top 3 sport. I'm referring to the fact that Florida was never a hockey state and probably will never be a hockey state. Why does it have two teams when Canada only has two thirds more then one fking state? It's not fair. Who cares what the business is or what the population is. It shouldn't matter when hockey is Canada's game. It belongs in Canada and the northern US, not the south.

Winnipeg is both small and economically depressed. Further, Winnipeg would would also be a drag on the league as a whole. Smaller Canadian cities, Calgary, Edmonton and even Vancouver are very poor draws in the US. They bring down ticket sales and cost other teams money. Winnipeg would be even worse than these other cities.

The notion of putting an NHL is team is ludicrous. I've been to Winnipeg and it's an OK place. But so is Sudbury, and you wouldn't put an NHL team there either.


Hahaha this is a good one, how about the flip side of your argument, when teams like The Blues go to Calgary and there are only 13000 fans there, or when the Hurricanes come to Edmonton and only 13000 fans show up ? Oh yeah I forgot that when the 'Yotes and Ducks come to town tpeople are breaking down the doors to see them play. Hmmmm seems like there there are more teams based in the US that bring down attendance when they come to town than the Flames Nucks and Oilers so I would not spout off any garbage about Canadian teams bringing down attendance.

another point often raised by critics of the NHL returning to Winnipeg is a lack of corporate support.

however, the MTS Centre has all of it's luxury boxes (46) sold at an average price of $ 45,000 for AHL hockey. i think this speaks to the type of corporate support an NHL team could expect to receive at $ 125,000/suite.

exiting? Is that a playoff reference? :lol

Mmmmkay. So you deny what I have to say by mocking a minor grammar mistake I made? Good job buddy, good job indeed. :rolleyes:

Uh oh, you started that sentance without capitalizing "exiting". Therefore Vancouver WAS the second most exciting team to watch last year.

Who knows if the NHL would eventally return to Winnipeg?? What will the CBA look like if that was possible for some small cities like Winnipeg, Quebec City and Hamilton to get back in the NHL via relocated teams?? I do know that Hamilton has the Copps Coliseum....that could be workable unless otherwise..>Quebec City would need to replace Le Colisee (whatever name the Colisee has gone under for the time being....) and Winnipeg does have the new MTS Center (which I have yet to go there, but hoping in the near future to go!!)... And what other northern US cities would be perfect for the NHL?? Seattle?? Portland?? Milwaukee?? Cleveland?? And there is Houston as well....any comments?

it's a fact



When you say one team is more exciting than the others thats an opinion. I can think of a few teams that were just as exciting. I can say the Lightning were more exciting than the Canucks but thats my opinion and I saw the Lightning more in person so I have bias. I wasnt referenceing to anything else, just that someone called the Cauncks the 2nd most exciting and stated it as a fact when its clearly an opinion.

When you say one team is more exciting than the others thats an opinion. I can think of a few teams that were just as exciting. I can say the Lightning were more exciting than the Canucks but thats my opinion and I saw the Lightning more in person so I have bias. I wasnt referenceing to anything else, just that someone called the Cauncks the 2nd most exciting and stated it as a fact when its clearly an opinion.

I dont mean "exciting" in terms of general excitement. I mean in terms of tickets sales by their oppsong teams fans whenever Vancouver came into town.

Detroit was #1 and Vancouver was #2. It is a fact. End of story.

I dont mean "exciting" in terms of general excitement. I mean in terms of tickets sales by their oppsong teams fans whenever Vancouver came into town.

Detroit was #1 and Vancouver was #2. It is a fact. End of story.

Point taken. Would like to see your attendance figures though because I looked them up at ESPN.com (whose stats are pretty reliable) and Detroit was #1 in the terms of average attendance but not capacity %. Vancouver was not #2 in any of the two categories. Not trying to dimiss your facts, just looking for a source of reference I could use in terms of ticket sales. Seems to be Toronto would draw more on the roadsince Toronto is more popular in Canada and in the States than Vancouver.

I dont mean "exciting" in terms of general excitement. I mean in terms of tickets sales by their oppsong teams fans whenever Vancouver came into town.

Detroit was #1 and Vancouver was #2. It is a fact. End of story.

detroit's the nhl's top road draw. vancouver is #7. sry, these are the facts.

see above espn link for the figures

Mmmmkay. So you deny what I have to say by mocking a minor grammar mistake I made? Good job buddy, good job indeed. :rolleyes:

Uh oh, you started that sentance without capitalizing "exiting". Therefore Vancouver WAS the second most exciting team to watch last year.

I thought that was nicer than giving you a warning for trying to hijack the thread. Whether the Canucks are exciting or exiting isn't germaine to the topic of this thread, or to this forum. Got it buddy?

Has anyone noticed during the Team Canada World Junior games, there has been a deafening "GO JETS GO" chant?

i totally loved watching the Jets...growing up on the east coast, those 10:30pm Smythe division games were kickass...
back in the Sega days, i used to roll the Thomas Steen era Jets when everyone else wanted to be Pens and Kings.
as short-lived and disappointing as most of it was, the Tkachuk era (even after Selanne was dealt) was still a fun underdog to root for...Zhamnov could have been an elite centre, and is still a very good one IMO, but seemed to always be banged up back then.

Who here loved the Winnipeg Jets?

Here is a website all about the Winnipeg Jets (http://www.jetsowner.com/)

Back on topic, the city of Winnipeg could (and DID) support NHL hockey. The Jets had an owner who tried to hold up the city for a new arena, when he should have to pay for it himself, or pay rent if the city builds it. But the city wouldn't, so he moved the team to even WORSE lands (attendance-wise): Phoenix! 8 years, 2 rinks, very few sellouts. Hum.......

Meanwhile, the city of Winnipeg builds the MTS Center for the Moose, and does well for itself. And is STILL one of the best hockey towns I've ever been to. And Phoenix is sinking like a stone tied to an anchor... Hum........

Back on topic, the city of Winnipeg could (and DID) support NHL hockey. The Jets had an owner who tried to hold up the city for a new arena, when he should have to pay for it himself, or pay rent if the city builds it. But the city wouldn't, so he moved the team to even WORSE lands (attendance-wise): Phoenix! 8 years, 2 rinks, very few sellouts. Hum.......

:shakehead
You, sir, need to recheck your numbers.

Back on topic, the city of Winnipeg could (and DID) support NHL hockey. The Jets had an owner who tried to hold up the city for a new arena, when he should have to pay for it himself, or pay rent if the city builds it. But the city wouldn't, so he moved the team to even WORSE lands (attendance-wise): Phoenix! 8 years, 2 rinks, very few sellouts. Hum......

I think you have barry Shankerow and Pete Karmanos (Carolina owner) mixed up. Shankerow was not the problem, as he has unfairly shouldered much of the blame for the Jets leaving town. The WEC (Winnipeg Enterprises Corporation) are the ones who drove the Jets out of the city, with their incompetant leadership, and bureaucractic red tape.

Gary Filmon also proved he was a lying ******* when one of his election promises was to keep the Jets in Winnipeg, whcih he quickly reneaged on once his PC party won the election. Susan Thompson (ex-mayor) proved she was worthless. The odds were really stacked against the Jets back then.

It's not fair. Who cares what the business is or what the population is.
First off, life's not fair (in case you haven't figured that out already), and in terms of having an NHL team, business support and population are the most important factors, not the weather.

Didn't Winnipeg build a new arena?

http://www.mtscentre.com/ (http://www.mtscentre.com/) It is a 15 000 seat arena.

It is nice to see Shankerow finally getting cut some slack and the blame placed on the MEC, the local and provincial governments: two of the three parties responsible for the loss of the Jets. It shouldn't be up to the owners to foot the whole bill for an arena. There should be some private and public funding available (both municipal and provincial because it will make money for the city and province). The problem was at the time, in the early 90s the city of Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba were consumed with hosting the Pan Am games and any funding that may have been there for an arena went to luring and building for the games.

It is a shame to see that the Phoenix fans, who all but two seasons helped the Coyotes outdraw the Jets.

After seeing 6 teams fold due to bankruptcy or whatever (just as long as 6 teams die) I wouldn't mind seeing Quebec and/or Winnipeg have a franchise relocate if it is proven they couldn't survive in their current location. This is contingent on a new arena in Quebec and whehter the MTS can be expanded without compromising the arena (like the old Winnipeg Arena expansion did) .

RE: Fair. Life isn't fair. If life was fair Elvis would still be alive and all the impersonators would have died.

After seeing 6 teams fold due to bankruptcy or whatever (just as long as 6 teams die) I wouldn't mind seeing Quebec and/or Winnipeg have a franchise relocate if it is proven they couldn't survive in their current location. This is contingent on a new arena in Quebec and whehter the MTS can be expanded without compromising the arena (like the old Winnipeg Arena expansion did) .


Huh?

After 6 teams die a miserable death, then relocation is acceptable.

:shakehead
You, sir, need to recheck your numbers.

Why? What numbers are off? Phoenix averages around 14,000 a game, which is close to what Winnipeg did in a 15,000 seat arena. Phoenix had their first arena, which held 16,000+. Now their new arena (30 miles from Phoenix) holds, what, 19,500? And they STILL can't sell out a game.

Sorry, but hockey in the desert will probably never be as popular as it was in Winnipeg. The fact that politics got in the way of hockey there is too bad, but in the Bettman day-and-age it has become a fact of life. And it sucks.

attendance #s from the site frequently accessed in this thread:

Average attendance in Phoenix:
96-97: 15 604
97-98: 15 405
98-99: 15 548
99-2k: 14 991
00-01: 14 224
01-02: 13 161
02-03: 13 229
03-04: 15 592 http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2004

Winnipeg Jets:
1979-80: 13 284
1980-81: 13 265
1981-82: 13 382
1982-83: 12 889
1983-84: 12 400
1984-85: 12 994
1985-86: 13 620
1986-87: 13 594
1987-88: 12 681
1988-89: 12 816
1989-90: 13 106
1990-91: 12 931
1991-92: 12 931
1992-93: 13 550
1993-94: 13 297
1994-95: 13 013
1995-96: 11 316

Jiggs, it looks like your numbers are way off.

Thread has been closed for drifting way off topic: "Who here loved the Winnipeg Jets?".