Mario too slow??

I know this a taboo topic and maybe the whole line was off, but as hard as he's trying and as much as his linemates love playing with him, I can't help thinking that he's the weak link on the line. Defensively last night he was not up to par. The Czechs had that line hemmed in a lot. He just seemed slower than I'd like. In the offensive zone he's a monster, but if you're not in there often it's no use. Vinny on that line might produce better results. It'll never happen of course, but it's something to think about.

Last night, he had that partial breakaway, but got the puck tied up in his legs and then Vokoun skated out and shot it away. I was thinking that if that was a few years ago, the puck would of been in the net...

As forebsy said there was that near-break. There was also the play were he batted the puck out of the air and seconds later came around to score. I think he had another good game.

As forebsy said there was that near-break. There was also the play were he batted the puck out of the air and seconds later came around to score. I think he had another good game.


That was a powerplay. I don't dispute his skill when possession has been established in the offensive zone. He's a plasure to watch. It's the lack of speed in neutral zone and defensive end that stands out to me

Yeah he's slow, but he also makes plays that no one in the world can make anymore, ones that no one else made since Gretz was still around. I'm no fan of Mario's, but his creativity and downright ability to make near impossible plays possible, makes him pretty valuable to this team. Its something an opposing team can't really prepare for, because its not anything they can predict.

Yeah he's slow, but he also makes plays that no one in the world can make anymore, ones that no one else made since Gretz was still around. I'm no fan of Mario's, but his creativity and downright ability to make near impossible plays possible, makes him pretty valuable to this team. Its something an opposing team can't really prepare for, because its not anything they can predict.

For some reason last night I noticed Mario knock a pass down out of the air a couple of times and maintain control....I don't think anyone can do the little things like that like Mario.

:bow: Mario

In his prime was Mario better than Gretz ?? Im talking skillwise because Gretz usualy scored the garbage goals while Mario had some unbelievable skill.

For some reason last night I noticed Mario knock a pass down out of the air a couple of times and maintain control....I don't think anyone can do the little things like that like Mario.

:bow: Mario

Saw that too. The powerplay goal he eventually scored wouldn't have happened if earlier in the play he had not managed to corral the puck out of the air and keep it onside while entering the offensive zone.

In his prime was Mario better than Gretz ?? Im talking skillwise because Gretz usualy scored the garbage goals while Mario had some unbelievable skill.
Dont event think to start a debate between Gretz and Mario... It's been done several time.

I know this a taboo topic and maybe the whole line was off, but as hard as he's trying and as much as his linemates love playing with him, I can't help thinking that he's the weak link on the line. Defensively last night he was not up to par. The Czechs had that line hemmed in a lot. He just seemed slower than I'd like. In the offensive zone he's a monster, but if you're not in there often it's no use. Vinny on that line might produce better results. It'll never happen of course, but it's something to think about.

I don't think he's slow. He "looks" slow, but this is probably because the way he skates. One time there was about to be a 3 on 2, and Mario was the one that skated back and catched up to the third man.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s many people were saying that Mario was too slow.

Heck, at full speed he was as fast as Paul Coffey. He just never looked fast because of his long strides.

In his prime was Mario better than Gretz ?? Im talking skillwise because Gretz usualy scored the garbage goals while Mario had some unbelievable skill.

Not sure how old you are or how much you saw Gretz in his prime, but he hardly scored "mostly garbage" goals. He and Mario are the only men I've ever seen be absolutely magical, and do things with the puck that no one else can do. Not Forsberg, not Jagr, not anyone. Don't worry about comparing the two together, just recognize how much these two were in a world of their own during their respective careers. The fact that we're lucky enough to have watched a generation where they overlapped is incredible.

Last night, he had that partial breakaway, but got the puck tied up in his legs and then Vokoun skated out and shot it away. I was thinking that if that was a few years ago, the puck would of been in the net...
I agree. Still, it was close. When that play happened I had a chuckle for Vokoun's thought processes. I mean, that play is always a risky one for a goalie, but consider the alternative: #66 on a clear break. haha. He made the right play for sure.

As forebsy said there was that near-break. There was also the play were he batted the puck out of the air and seconds later came around to score. I think he had another good game.
I think that was the most beautiful display of pure skill that I witnessed last night (except for Elliot Friedman's masterful show of interview techniques :shakehead ). Mario was moving at a good clip and just controlled that puck as though it were on the ice and moving slow. It was a treat.

In his prime was Mario better than Gretz ?? Im talking skillwise because Gretz usualy scored the garbage goals while Mario had some unbelievable skill.LOL!!

Back in the late 80s/early 90s many people were saying that Mario was too slow.

Heck, at full speed he was as fast as Paul Coffey. He just never looked fast because of his long strides.I can't say he was as fast as Coffey since I don't remember offhand what it was like watching them play together, but he definitely has always looked much slower than he actually is. If you're 6'4", it's kind of a given that you're not going to have to pump your legs as often as if you're 5'11".

In his prime was Mario better than Gretz ?? Im talking skillwise because Gretz usualy scored the garbage goals while Mario had some unbelievable skill.

I never knew Gretzky was a power forward. :)

I don't think Gretzky would qualify as a power forward, he was more of a plumber-type: a garbage goal here, a holding penalty there... you don't amass a ridiculous amount of points the likes wil never be seen again in the NHL on putting the puck in the right place skills alone (or as the pundits call it "playmaking"), you need real, difficutly won plumbering experience.

Mario's still good, just look at all those insane passes he throws to Iginla and Sakic.

I don't think Gretzky would qualify as a power forward, he was more of a plumber-type: a garbage goal here, a holding penalty there... you don't amass a ridiculous amount of points the likes wil never be seen again in the NHL on putting the puck in the right place skills alone (or as the pundits call it "playmaking"), you need real, difficutly won plumbering experience.

Mario is the ultimate plumber. Heck, he passes his entire days coming in and out of pipes and jumping on turtles.

Mario's still good, just look at all those insane passes he throws to Iginla and Sakic.
Sums up my thoughts exactly. He is still the best playmaker and has the best hands on hockey. Its great to even see a physical side of him come out too.

Ugh Mario is not Slow, he's a little chubby but the dude has saved the world like 50 times already and this is the thanks he gets?

I don't think he's slow. He "looks" slow, but this is probably because the way he skates. One time there was about to be a 3 on 2, and Mario was the one that skated back and catched up to the third man.

Mario was great on the backcheck yesterday, and IMO so was Heatley. A bunch of people also touched on Mario's skating. He is NOT slow. He glides like Coffey, and his stride is really deceptive, it doesn't even look like he's hustling. The guy flys down the ice though. I'm sure he's slipping a little at his age, but I still think he's an amazing skater.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s many people were saying that Mario was too slow. .

Back in the late 80s/early 90s, I never heard anyone saying that Mario was too slow.


Heck, at full speed he was as fast as Paul Coffey. He just never looked fast because of his long strides.

Fast as Coffey?!?!?? Don't think so...

he was more of a plumber-type: a garbage goal here, a holding penalty there... you don't amass a ridiculous amount of points the likes wil never be seen again in the NHL on putting the puck in the right place skills alone (or as the pundits call it "playmaking"), you need real, difficutly won plumbering experience.

Gretzky, a plumber???!???!!! WHO are you guys?

I said this before and my suspicions are stronger than ever now. Mario has lost it...and since I've always disliked Lemieux, it's very curious that I am so sad...

THAT fella out on the ice is not the Mario Lemieux of days gone by...there was a painful moment of realization for me back during the '96 World Cup when I realized that the Gretzky Magic was gone.

In the same way, I've been scratching my head, wondering if Mario's wand had no more magic left in it...and after watching him for...what 6 games?...I'm coming to the conclusion that Mario has lost his magic as well...I mean 6 games and 1 goal for Mario Lemieux???? I mean, as much as I dislike Mario Lemieux the man, I have always said that he is the most physically gifted hockey player of ALL time (not necessarily the best) and the old Mario would have 8, 9, 10, 11 goals by now!!!...and 3 or 4 of those just jaw dropping kind!!!

First there was Bobby...but he was taken away from us waaay too young...then Wayne became as shell of his former self, and now it's Mario...as I said before, ain't it a B!TCH getting old?!?!??!

...and PULEAAASE...you guys/gals out there please remember the Mario of couple years ago (if you can't remember him from 10 years ago) and not think that the Lemieux you see today is the Lemieux as he has always been as many of you are doing with Gretz!!!

In his prime was Mario better than Gretz ?? Im talking skillwise because Gretz usualy scored the garbage goals while Mario had some unbelievable skill.

I bet you're just saying that because Mario has a french last name and Wayne doesn't.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s, I never heard anyone saying that Mario was too slow.



Fast as Coffey?!?!?? Don't think so...

That was the main bang on Mario back then. I remember Al Arbour insiting that Mario being slow was a major misconception and that it was really only by skating alongside him that one could realize how fast he really was.

And yes, in his prime, Mario could skate with Coffey without any problems.

That was the main bang on Mario back then. I remember Al Arbour insiting that Mario being slow was a major misconception and that it was really only by skating alongside him that one could realize how fast he really was.

And yes, in his prime, Mario could skate with Coffey without any problems.

How do I say this nicely?....are you on drugs, son?

David, I won't disagree with your assessment that Lemieux is slowing down - he is nearly 40. I'll even go as far as to say that his hands aren't exactly what they used to be - at least when referring to his one-on-one skills and shot accuracy and release.

However it really is unfair to compare the amount of goals he has potted now as compared to then. Aside from the fact that he concentrates almost solely on playmaking now, as he has stated, more importantly the landscape of the game itself has changed dramtically.

Even as seemingly short a time ago as 96 the league fostered a more skate and skill type of play, as opposed to lumbering through the neutral zone wearing two other players as capes and not getting a call.

His vision is still unsurpassed, IMO and his skating, while not St. Louis-like isn't awful. It would be cause for concern if he were unable to backcheck effectivly, but he has aquitted himself well in that regard this tourny I think.

In any case, he is still an asset to team Canada, and hasn't been a do-nothing bum by any stretch of the imagination. You could ask Hull about that though.

How do I say this nicely?....are you on drugs, son?

I have about 30 games on VHS from the late 80s when Lemieux and Coffey played together and although Lemieux didn't look particularly fast back then he had no problems getting from point A to point B as fast as Paul Coffey did.

When both are skating at full speed next to each other, it's close as heck.

The only thing is that Coffey was always more "energetic." He would rush at full speed with the puck something like a dozen times per period while Mario would always work behind the scenes and look relaxed as if he was pacing himself. But when Mario decided to go as fast as he could, he was as fast as Coffey. I'm not making this up, man I'm just describing what I saw.

Aside from the fact that he concentrates almost solely on playmaking now, as he has stated, more importantly the landscape of the game itself has changed dramtically.

Lemieux has never been a play maker...always a goal scorer (and the most B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L to watch one in history)...just the fact that you are saying that he wants to concentrate on playmaking speaks VOLUMES.


Even as seemingly short a time ago as 96 the league fostered a more skate and skill type of play, as opposed to lumbering through the neutral zone wearing two other players as capes and not getting a call.


Regardless of whether you're wearing 2 players or 10 players, when the Sakics and Iginlas of the world are out playing you, Lemieux himself must realize that he is no longer what he used to be.


In any case, he is still an asset to team Canada, and hasn't been a do-nothing bum by any stretch of the imagination. You could ask Hull about that though.

Never said he wasn't an asset to the team but no longer in the way that he used to be. I think that he's a tremendous asset just with his presence...calming the kids down and allowing kids like Vinny to play to their potential without panicking even if Luongo lets a soft one in 6 seconds after they get the lead.

I have about 30 games on VHS from the late 80s when Lemieux and Coffey played together and although Lemieux didn't look particularly fast back then he had no problems getting from point A to point B as fast as Paul Coffey did.

When both are skating at full speed next to each other, it's close as heck.

The only thing is that Coffey was always more "energetic." He would rush at full speed with the puck something like a dozen times per period while Mario would always work behind the scenes and look relaxed as if he was pacing himself. But when Mario decided to go as fast as he could, he was as fast as Coffey. I'm not making this up, man I'm just describing what I saw.

Well, I have about 100 games on VHS from the late 80s when...oh never mind...

A little OT, but I will always remember that time in Salt Lake City when he let that pass go through his skates onto Paul Kariya's stick and in the net. Absolute magic.

A little OT, but I will always remember that time in Salt Lake City when he let that pass go through his skates onto Paul Kariya's stick and in the net. Absolute magic.

What I remember most about that goal was my friends' reaction. I was watching it at a pal's home with 6 or 7 guys and all of them except me made fun of Mario and were saying that he tried to shoot it but fanned and lost his balance then was lucky that Kariya was there to bail him out of embarassment to score the goal.

Of course, I was the only one who disagreed :banghead:

I bet you're just saying that because Mario has a french last name and Wayne doesn't.

What's your problem?? Im not even French! Get yout facts straite before you attack others :banghead: .

Lemieux has never been a play maker...always a goal scorer (and the most B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L to watch one in history)...just the fact that you are saying that he wants to concentrate on playmaking speaks VOLUMES.
Never a playmaker? Sure he's the best goalscorer in history but the guy has averaged over an assist per game in his career. His playmaking and vision has always been only surpassed by Gretzky. I do agree with you though, Mario is nowhere near what he used to be. If i had to quantify it, he's only about 50% of what he used to be. That's what is just so crazy though, when you realize how good he still is at near 40, and then you realize he was literally twice as good 10-15 years ago.

Gretzky, a plumber???!???!!! WHO are you guys?

We represent the Worldwide Association for the Valorisation of Worldwide Plumbers, Worldwide.
But you might know us better as the "WAVWPW".

My goodness, I can't believe how many of you are out for Lemieux's blood.

Look the last few season's totals for Mario.

2003-04, 10 GP, 1 G 9A (1 PPG)
2002-03, 67 GP, 28 G 63 A (1.36 PPG)
2001-02, 24 GP, 6 G 25 A (1.29 PPG)
2000-01, 43 GP, 35 G, 41 A (1.77 pPG)

2002 Olympics, 5 GP, 2G, 4A (1.2 PPG)
2004 World Cup, 5 GP, 1G, 3A (0.8 PPG)

Now, I know that it's impossible to say whether or not Lemieux would have been able to maintain a 1 PPG average throughout the season last year, but if he did, he would have been tied for 5th in league scoring with Marian Hossa. You should also take a look at Lemieux's supporting cast in Pittsburg. They have no depth, so it's pretty easy for opposition to keep their best defensive units out there keeping him in check.

Of course the guy isn't averaging 150 points per season anymore. The 80's-90's era of hockey is long gone, and the guy is pushing 40.

Criticize all you want, but I can't think of anyone who I'd rather have wearing the C for Team Canada, and completing Canada's top line.

Regardless of what some may thing, Lemieux is still an important part to team Canada and the Penguins. I think if the NHL season starts, he will again contend for the art ross. He may not be as fast, but it really doesn't matter since he thinks on a different level of the game than almost all players. Also, i never heard him compared to Paul Coffey in terms of skating ability. I got to see them both in Pittsburgh several times, and while both were great, Coffey was on another level by himself.

Yeah he's slow, but he also makes plays that no one in the world can make anymore, ones that no one else made since Gretz was still around. I'm no fan of Mario's, but his creativity and downright ability to make near impossible plays possible, makes him pretty valuable to this team. Its something an opposing team can't really prepare for, because its not anything they can predict.

He might be slow but f... that! Guess who made the whole play before the second goal in the Canada - Czech Rep possible. Every other player would have chased the puck after the pass Mario got in the neutral zone. But instead of that he somehow got it under control from mid air so it landed right infront of him, than passed it to a free player and seconds later scored the goal on 2:0. I don´t like Canadian hockey, but I have to admit that move was brilliant! :bow:

I concur that Mario is a weak point on first scoring line, he is molasses out there, and some of his passes make you wonder WTF he's thinking, but it's still Mario, and his presence alone is worth having him here.

Mario is a weak point on first scoring linehe is molasses out theresome of his passes make you wonder WTF he's thinking

I hope that's sarcastic :dunno:

Lemieux has never been a play maker...

Uhh, what!? The guy is second only to Gretzky in career assists-per-game and he's always had more assists than goals except for one season. I don't think I've ever seen another player make such beautiful passes with the backhand.

Uhh, what!? The guy is second only to Gretzky in career assists-per-game and he's always had more assists than goals except for one season. I don't think I've ever seen another player make such beautiful passes with the backhand.

Simple math...they award 2 assists for each goal...Mario has always been a goal scorer, first and everything else second. His assists were just by product of his goal scoring...He was even criticized by many for being a puck hog early on.

Saying Mario Lemieux isn't a playmaker and that his assists are a byproduct of his goal scoring is just....I can't find the words. Any perseon with decent hockey cunning can watch Mario play and see what fantastic passes he makes, just like Wayne he can find the lanes nobody else even sees.

Saying Mario Lemieux isn't a playmaker and that his assists are a byproduct of his goal scoring is just....I can't find the words. Any perseon with decent hockey cunning can watch Mario play and see what fantastic passes he makes, just like Wayne he can find the lanes nobody else even sees.

That David guy is the one who said in another topic that Mario had never played physically nor stood up for a teammate before...

Lemieux has never been a play maker

How do I say this nicely?....are you on drugs, son?

Ironic.

Saying Mario Lemieux isn't a playmaker and that his assists are a byproduct of his goal scoring is just....I can't find the words. Any perseon with decent hockey cunning can watch Mario play and see what fantastic passes he makes, just like Wayne he can find the lanes nobody else even sees.

Mario played a good game tonight and made a some good plays. He was also good defensively. He even batted the puck out of the air and turned it into a pretty good scoring chance. However, he didn't go on any breakaways and wasn't the artist on the ice that he used to be.

Has he lost his magic? Only time will tell, when they start playing again...around mid Jan, I'd say...but it did look like it was gone for long stretches this tournament but tonight and the last game, he looked pretty good as a set up man and a very good defensive forward.

Just because Mario plays a handful of games where his primary function was to set up guys and play defensively well doesn't change the fact that he used to be a one man wrecking crew offensively, never needing another to score a goal but merely using his long reach and the most physically gifted body and exceptional hockey sense to embarass the opposition.

Judging by some of your comments and reactions, I can pretty well guess how old some of you are...

It was a good tournament but sadly it's over...good night to everybody and let's pray that there's hockey before January. Because the last time this happened, I remember that hockey withdrawal was something awful!

Mario has lost a step, it's a given, nobody can argue that. But it's a shame the tourney is ending because I was sensing that the guy was getting his hands back. This guy has the sweetest hand movement in the history of the league. You could sense that even the Finns were in awe.

I can proudly say to my son that I have seen the most prolific pointgetter play (Gretzky), and I've seen the most talented player in the history of the game play(Mario).

Just because Mario plays a handful of games where his primary function was to set up guys and play defensively well doesn't change the fact that he used to be a one man wrecking crew offensively, never needing another to score a goal but merely using his long reach and the most physically gifted body and exceptional hockey sense to embarass the opposition.


I don't understand what you are trying to say. Lemieux at 38 is not the same player he was in his prime?

Well obviously. Any semi-intelligent person realizes that people become worse players as the near the end of their careers. I don't think you will find anyone that says Mario is as good now as he was when he had 199 points.

So thank you for pointing out the obvious.

Mario played a good game tonight and made a some good plays. He was also good defensively. He even batted the puck out of the air and turned it into a pretty good scoring chance... tonight and the last game, he looked pretty good as a set up man and a very good defensive forward.

I can't find the emoticon for "eat crow". Can someone point it out for me?

S L

The guy was born to play hockey and is a genius.Think he looked slow in that game last night?He was brilliant defensively and was an offensive threat just like he always is,he's lost leg speed over the years of course(he's 39) but his thinking is still faster then anyones and his hands are still sweet.He's simply magnificent,even at 39.

Mario looked great last night.

Canada's opening goal was thanks to him.

He recieved a pass that was behind him, revieved it avoided a hit by pulling a Datsyuk like move and then fed Sakic for the goal.

It was like everything was happening in slow motion for him.

If that's not play making ability I don't know what is.

Mario looked great last night.

Canada's opening goal was thanks to him.

He recieved a pass that was behind him, revieved it avoided a hit by pulling a Datsyuk like move and then fed Sakic for the goal.

It was like everything was happening in slow motion for him.

If that's not play making ability I don't know what is.

So true, + he made an exceptionnal pass to Sakic from the right faceoff circle directly on the blade of Joe's stick who was joinning the rush on the right side, it was somewhere in the first, it was amazing... he's reading the play perfectly !

There was also the play were he batted the puck out of the air and seconds later came around to score. I think he had another good game.

When i have seen this pass reception, i wasnt sure many would point it out as around me this play remained unnoticed. But GOD, this reception was something... PP or not, there's about 3 or 4 guys in the world who could have caught this one and Mario is still one of those. Mario is catching this kind of pass on a consistant basis which is not the case for anyone else in the world right now imo.

Hands are still there for him, but at 39, he's not the overall player is was.
_______

On another note: How can someone said of Lemieux is was a goalscorer and that Gretzky was a playmaker ?????????????

Those 2 forwards represent the sum of the 2. The are the perfect offensive package. You dont Label Jordan the best passer or Bonds the best homerun hitter. They are the best PLAYERS.

Did Mario look slow? Yes he did.

Did Mario look like a God with some of the passes he made? Yes.

It evens out nicely.

Did Mario look slow? Yes he did.

Did Mario look like a God with some of the passes he made? Yes.

It evens out nicely.

Exactley. The rest of his game more than make up for it.

It's like complaining that Gretzky wasn't a great skater... absolutely retarded, he's still a magician with the puck.