Official, Broduer OUT

Luongo in and Theodore to be the back-up.

http://tsn.ca/world_cup_hockey/news_story.asp?id=98201

Oh, oh. Luongo is good but he's not Brodeur and hasn't played a real game in months. Look for the Czechs to shoot early and often.

Oh, oh. Luongo is good but he's not Brodeur and hasn't played a real game in months. Look for the Czechs to shoot early and often.

They shoulda picked Theo as the starter, he's much more experienced and plays well under presure :banghead: . (im not being biased)

Like Bill said in Kill Bill 2: The plot thickens.

They shoulda picked Theo as the starter, he's much more experienced and plays well under presure :banghead: . (im not being biased)

Yes, you are. Explain how Theo is more experienced than Luongo when it comes to international play?

Oh no...oh well at least they're putting in Luongo :)

Yes, you are. Explain how Theo is more experienced than Luongo when it comes to international play?

Did I say that he is more experienced when it comes to int. play? No I didnt.
I was saying that he's more experienced all around and has proven that he is good under presure, Luongo hasn't had the chance of proving something like that.

Oh no...oh well at least they're putting in Luongo :)

We'll see how happy you'll be when he chokes and lets in 3 goals in 12 shots.

They really should have played one of the backups in that game with Slovakia in the round robin.

I bet Brodeur will be in net for tonight game.

We'll see how happy you'll be when he chokes and lets in 3 goals in 12 shots.

Come on.

Did I say that he is more experienced when it comes to int. play? No I didnt.
I was saying that he's more experienced all around and has proven that he is good under presure, Luongo hasn't had the chance of proving something like that.

Well, son, guess what the World Cup is? That's right, say it with me, INTERNATIONAL PLAY.

Put your bias away and stop making Canadians look bad, there's a reason why Theo was 4th on the goaltending list for Team Canada and not selected originally.

Well, son, guess what the World Cup is? That's right, say it with me, INTERNATIONAL PLAY.

Put your bias away and stop making Canadians look bad, there's a reason why Theo was 4th on the goaltending list for Team Canada and not selected originally.
:bow: :bow: :bow: Thats why he's not playing and why Luongo is! I think Theodore faltered in the playoffs last season. I mean in the Boston series, he was terrible for the first 4 games and than the Tampa series although you cant blame your goaltender totally but he is your backbone afterall.

Well, son, guess what the World Cup is? That's right, say it with me, INTERNATIONAL PLAY.

Put your bias away and stop making Canadians look bad, there's a reason why Theo was 4th on the goaltending list for Team Canada and not selected originally.

Theodore also played in international play just for you to know!!

The reason Theo was selected 4th is because Gretz and his friends were smokin somthing really not good for them :lol .

Hey guys lets just wait and see how Luongo faires tonight then we'll have a little talk :) .

Did I say that he is more experienced when it comes to int. play? No I didnt.
I was saying that he's more experienced all around and has proven that he is good under presure, Luongo hasn't had the chance of proving something like that.

What the hell are you talking about? Was Luongo not in goal for the last 2 World Championship victories? What has Theodore done.. why don't you go smoke your bias away.. no bias my ass

What the hell are you talking about? Was Luongo not in goal for the last 2 World Championship victories? What has Theodore done.. why don't you go smoke your bias away.. no bias my ass

Oh, will the hab-hating ever stop? :dunno:

Grtezky expressed confidence in Luongo, who has been Canada's gold medal winning goaltender in the last two World Hockey Championships.


Yes. Yes he was.

Oh, will the hab-hating ever stop? :dunno:

Maybe you should shut up... We lose all respect on these boards because of people like you. You just wrote 6 messages on this thread. GET A LIFE :shakehead

Luongo going in spells problems to me in three ways:

1) Luongo is not as good as Brodeur (though he is still pretty good)
2) Luongo can't be 100% sharp (hasn't played a real game in awhile)
3) Czechs get a confidence boost.

Maybe you should shut up... We lose all respect on these boards because of people like you. You just wrote 6 messages on this thread. GET A LIFE :shakehead

Souldn't he be banned for that? Dont I have the right to post how much I want??

Theodore also played in international play just for you to know!!

The reason Theo was selected 4th is because Gretz and his friends were smokin somthing really not good for them :lol .

The reason Theodore was selected is because 1) he's a great goalie and 2) Gretzky wanted someone with at least a bit of playoff experience to counterbalance Luongo probably only problem (that's was Belfour role). Now, which one should play tonight? I have no idea, but I think the whole "Theo against Luongo" debate is completely silly. It's not like the choice is clear cut and there's an obvious better player. Reallistically, I don't think it matters which one plays, simply because they are both exceptionnal goalies and there's no way to predict how they are going to react for this one specific game. Someone said that the three best goalies of the tournament all play for Canada, and this isn't really that off the chart (Kiprusoff could be the exception, but aside him...?)

It is possible to make a strong case for both of them. Luongo just ended a season with career high save percentage (0.931), he's huge and we all know he's good. But he's also young with no NHL playoff experience under his belt, a big minus. Theo has won the Vezina, the Hart, he's only two years older than Luongo but he already won two playoff rounds. His last season wasn' that spectacular though.

At the end, it will be Gretz (or Quinns) decision. Personnaly, I would lean on Theo because he looked better during the exhibition period they had the chance to play last week (getting the star of the game IIRC). But Canada coaches had the chance to see both of these players every day in practice since the begining of the tournament, so they have a much better view of who's the most ready.

But personnaly, I wouldn't be surprised to see Brodeur tonight back in net.

EDIT: Just read that Luongo won 2 gold medal. That another big plus for him. But I stand on my main point: anyone who think that the choice of goalie is clear cut for tonight is simply being lame.

I'm not a hab hater at all but there's no way in hell I put Theodore in ahead of Luongo. Two straight standout world championship performances. Five straight elimination game wins. Canada still has the best goalie in the tournament.

Hey guys lets just wait and see how Luongo faires tonight then we'll have a little talk :) .

Why don't you check your bias at the door and be a real fan. Are you rooting for the Habs or Team Canada here? Grow up and cheer for the team that's playing.

Luongo has won international tournaments before. With teams less experienced and skilled than this one. Canadians should have full confidence with him in goal. Luongo is more experienced and might be better equipped to deal with this pressure than Jose Theodore. Get over it.

Oh fudge...

I'll stand by my standard of not making predictions when my team is involved, but Brodeur out scares the crap out of me.

They really should have played one of the backups in that game with Slovakia in the round robin.

That's for sure. Neither Luongo or Theo have played for a while. Could be an interesting evening.

Why don't you check your bias at the door and be a real fan. Are you rooting for the Habs or Team Canada here? Grow up and cheer for the team that's playing.

Luongo has won international tournaments before. With teams less experienced and skilled than this one. Canadians should have full confidence with him in goal. Luongo is more experienced and might be better equipped to deal with this pressure than Jose Theodore. Get over it.

Why don't you check your bias at the door and be a real fan. Are you rooting for the Habs or Team Canada here? Grow up and cheer for the team that's playing.

Luongo has won international tournaments before. With teams less experienced and skilled than this one. Canadians should have full confidence with him in goal. Luongo is more experienced and might be better equipped to deal with this pressure than Jose Theodore. Get over it.

Im not being biased and Im rooting for team Canada!

That's for sure. Neither Luongo or Theo have played for a while. Could be an interesting evening.

Totally agree with this.

Why didn't they clone Brodeur?

Hey guys lets just wait and see how Luongo faires tonight then we'll have a little talk :) .

My boy Loungo has GOT to shine!
I love him
Him and JBo gotta rock it

They really should have played one of the backups in that game with Slovakia in the round robin.
It's Quinn's stubborn streak acting up again. Pretty dumb decision on his part.

Luongo has won international tournaments before. With teams less experienced and skilled than this one. Canadians should have full confidence with him in goal. Luongo is more experienced and might be better equipped to deal with this pressure than Jose Theodore. Get over it.
I don't really care about who starts tonight, since I'm not really confident in either guy right now because of rust, but how is Luongo more experienced than Theodore? Theodore has played much more high pressure games to this point in his career.

Anyone who has watched Theodore in the playoffs (02 and 04) knows exactly how unpredictable he can be. While he has stolen playof games, he has also given them away. His playoff numbers are less than stellar. Luongo's the right choice; no question about it.

They really should have played one of the backups in that game with Slovakia in the round robin.

You're dead on. I think though, Quinn said he would leave the decision up to Brodeur himself and then stated that he thought Brodeur would want to play that game. We'd be a lot better off right now if he said to hell with it and started Luongo anyways. At any rate, I've seen Luongo look damn near unbeatable. Let's hope he can recapture that on relatively short notice.

Jesus guys, some of you are talking like if our backup( Luongo) have the same talent as Pat Jablonski!!!.Yes he is our 2nd goalie BUT A HELL OF A GOALIE!!!Yes, im a habs fan, and Luongo>Theodore.

Luongo got a .931 save percentage(2nd in the league, behind Roloson and Kipp who were tie) so yeah i am confident that team canada got a good, if not better shot with him in the net.

Tonight we win.Period.

:handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

go canada go!

It's Quinn's stubborn streak acting up again. Pretty dumb decision on his part.


I don't really care about who starts tonight, since I'm not really confident in either guy right now because of rust, but how is Luongo more experienced than Theodore? Theodore has played much more high pressure games to this point in his career.

Finally somebody with some sence. :)

Jesus guys, some of you are talking like if our backup( Luongo) have the same talent as Pat Jablonski!!!.Yes he is our 2nd goalie BUT A HELL OF A GOALIE!!!Yes, im a habs fan, and Luongo>Theodore.

Luongo got a .931 save percentage(2nd in the league, behind Roloson and Kipp who were tie) so yeah i am confident that team canada got a good, if not better shot with him in the net.

Tonight we win.Period.

:handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

go canada go!

Better shot?? naaa, good? maybe.

Oh, oh. Luongo is good but he's not Brodeur and hasn't played a real game in months. Look for the Czechs to shoot early and often.But Macman, why are you worried? Did you not post in the Tourney MVP will be.... thread the following:

Naming Brodeur MVP would imply that Canada has been outplayed in the tournament, or even tested, and everyone knows that hasn't been the case. Brodeur has only had to make a couple of tough stops in the entire tournament and he actually let in a weak goal. Hell, I could have played nets against Slovakia and Canada still would have won 5-1 or 5-2.If you can play nets for Team Canada, don't you think Luongo or Theodore also can?

What the hell are you talking about? Was Luongo not in goal for the last 2 World Championship victories? What has Theodore done.. why don't you go smoke your bias away.. no bias my ass
won the world juniors, and Theo was to busy in the playoffs to win a meaningless tournament for also-rans this year.

But Macman, why are you worried? Did you not post in the Tourney MVP will be.... thread the following:

If you can play nets for Team Canada, don't you think Luongo or Theodore also can?
but thatw as slovakia, this is the czech republic.

but thatw as slovakia, this is the czech republic.True, but personally I'd feel more comfortable with Luongo or Theodore than Macman. lol.

This should be interesting. Brodeur or Belfour are very well suited to team Canada's style of play, that is, they can be steady as a rock in a fairly quiet game for them, yet still come up with the big saves.

Theodore and Luongo are similar in the fact that they thrive in situations where the goalie has to steal a game, getting outshot, killing penalties, etc.

Canada doesn't need a goalie to steal a game, they just need someone to stop the puck - believe it or not, this is much harder than to steal a game.

Just ask Cujo.

IMO, the difference between Luongo and Theo is slim. Luongo, if he plays, will play well, and if he is steady, Canada will win.

This should be interesting. Brodeur or Belfour are very well suited to team Canada's style of play, that is, they can be steady as a rock in a fairly quiet game for them, yet still come up with the big saves.

Theodore and Luongo are similar in the fact that they thrive in situations where the goalie has to steal a game, getting outshot, killing penalties, etc.

Canada doesn't need a goalie to steal a game, they just need someone to stop the puck - believe it or not, this is much harder than to steal a game.

Just ask Cujo.

IMO, the difference between Luongo and Theo is slim. Luongo, if he plays, will play well, and if he is steady, Canada will win.

Very good point. Every goalie are not suited to face 15-25 shots a game. Some prefer receive 30-40 shots to keep them sharp. Anyway, Luongo is the best pure butterfly goalie in the world, and i predict a shut-out for him tonight with a 3-0 victory for Canada!

I'm not a hab hater at all but there's no way in hell I put Theodore in ahead of Luongo. Two straight standout world championship performances. Five straight elimination game wins. Canada still has the best goalie in the tournament.

I don't remember the first world championship so I won't call it, but the second world championship (this year) where Luongo won was pretty iffy, he was weak, very weak in the elimination round and he was lucky that team Canada was so strong. He's lucky that in the Sweden game Lundqvist was even more horrible than he was or else that would have been a black eye for his young career. He'll get the start, I have no doubt about that but I feel that the hype he gets is... a bit much to say when he hasn't backstopped his team to the playoffs and Flordia is no excuse as Theodore backstopped a much worse team in his hart and vezina year...

Anyone who has watched Theodore in the playoffs (02 and 04) knows exactly how unpredictable he can be. While he has stolen playof games, he has also given them away. His playoff numbers are less than stellar. Luongo's the right choice; no question about it.

Because Luongo's playoff numbers are so stellar right?
:lol

I don't remember the first world championship so I won't call it, but the second world championship (this year) where Luongo won was pretty iffy, he was weak, very weak in the elimination round and he was lucky that team Canada was so strong. He's lucky that in the Sweden game Lundqvist was even more horrible than he was or else that would have been a black eye for his young career. He'll get the start, I have no doubt about that but I feel that the hype he gets is... a bit much to say when he hasn't backstopped his team to the playoffs and Flordia is no excuse as Theodore backstopped a much worse team in his hart and vezina year...

Thats what im talking about!

I agree with SmoothSkater. I am not very confident with Luongo in net. He played pretty badly in the exhibition game against the US. And at the past 2 World Hockey Championships he basically played well enough for the win. He didn't steal any games. Both times Canada was very lucky to bounce back after being down from Sweden.

I really wish we still had Belfour.

I'm sorry, but what the hell is with the title of this thread? Brodeur is not officially out, he's "officially" contemplating sitting out for the game if after suiting up he feels his health is not up to scratch.

Unless I misread both tsn.ca and the Toronto Star this morning :dunno: I suppose my point is saying something is "official" when it is only speculated - regardless of whom makes said speculation - is pretty poor practise.

Why didn't they clone Brodeur?Dammm!!!
That is one excellent question.
:handclap: ;) :D

Gretz and co should have had the foresight to not leave us so vulnerable.
Why did they have to choose someone, who is irreplaceable?
They should have picked guys who can "plug in and play"...

Oh wait...
They did.

C'mon guys...
Our boys are playing an awesome TEAM game.
They're not about to fall apart.

GO CANADA GO!!!

I don't really care about who starts tonight, since I'm not really confident in either guy right now because of rust, but how is Luongo more experienced than Theodore? Theodore has played much more high pressure games to this point in his career.

Which ones? The WJC gold medal games or the World Championship gold medal games? I forget which ones Theodore participated in. Unless you're talking about the playoffs. Which I'd argue are not nearly as pressure filled as international gold medal games. Especially ones in high profile tournaments such as the WJCs and the Worlds.

If it's your opinion that Luongo isn't more experienced in pressure games, that's fine. It isn't correct though.

Im not being biased and Im rooting for team Canada!

Then why would you be waiting to see how he fares tonight? Firstly, if he gets shelled, you'll still have no point. Nobody would be able to say that Theodore would have had a better start. Secondly, if he does well, your tune won't change.

Have faith in the squad your country ices. Rather than pissing and moaning because your favorite team's goaltender isn't the starter.

Which I'd argue are not nearly as pressure filled as international gold medal games.
well, since the world championships mean nothing outside of europe, there is no pressure for a canadian or american team. And Luongo didnt respond well either, he put his team down 4-1 or something like that on some pretty questionable goals. Another thing, Theos shutout in game 7 was more pressure filled thasn anything Luongo has faced thus far in his career.

I'm sorry, but what the hell is with the title of this thread? Brodeur is not officially out, he's "officially" contemplating sitting out for the game if after suiting up he feels his health is not up to scratch.

Unless I misread both tsn.ca and the Toronto Star this morning :dunno: I suppose my point is saying something is "official" when it is only speculated - regardless of whom makes said speculation - is pretty poor practise.

Agreed.

We'll see how happy you'll be when he chokes and lets in 3 goals in 12 shots.
BIASED! BIASED!

Oh, will the hab-hating ever stop? :dunno:
When the hab-overrating stops?

Go Sweden Go....
next olympics

Go Sweden Go....
next olympics

Yeah, if Tommy Salo was a Canadian we wouldn't even be having this discussion. He is light years ahead of either Luongo or Theodore.

The Team Canada coaches made the right decision in going with Roberto Luongo over Jose Theodore........Theodore is a One-Year-Wonder......LUONGO is a Stud-Goaltender playing on a crappy NHL team in Florida.......If Luongo played in Jersey instead of Florida he would be posting better numbers than Martin Brodeur.....

Jose Theodore is lucky to be the #3 Goalie for Team Canada.....In my humble opinion that spot should have been reserved for Marty Turco of the Dallas Stars.

Cheers!~

monkey_00

Which ones? The WJC gold medal games or the World Championship gold medal games? I forget which ones Theodore participated in. Unless you're talking about the playoffs. Which I'd argue are not nearly as pressure filled as international gold medal games. Especially ones in high profile tournaments such as the WJCs and the Worlds.Theodore went unbeaten in the one year he started in the WJC and was voted best goalie in the tournament and won the gold. He has also been able to get his team into the NHL playoffs with a weak lineup and has reached the final 8 both times. Luongo has never even gotten his team into the playoff race, therefore his NHL games have been much lower pressure. The world Championships are nice, but not nearly as pressure packed as the NHL playoff race, playoffs or the WJC.

........Theodore is a One-Year-Wonder............If Luongo played in Jersey instead of Florida he would be posting better numbers than Martin Brodeur.....Whatever monkey boy:lol :lol: :joker:

A word to the wise, move. Living next to Stelco ain't healthy.

>>>Whatever monkey boy<<<

Psycho Joe......

Whatever what?.......Truth hurts right......If Theodore plays in Net tonight Canada loses........If Luongo plays in net tonight Canada wins.......simple as that.......Turco should have been selected over Theordore but what's done is done........I'm just keeping my fingers crossed here that we don't have to see Theordore in Net tonight for the good guys.............and for your information I don't live near Stelco I live near the Royal Botanical Gardens.........heh heh heh

.................................................. NEXT!!

Cheers!~

monkey_00

>>>Whatever monkey boy<<<

Psycho Joe......

Whatever what?.......Truth hurts right......If Theodore plays in Net tonight Canada loses........If Luongo plays in net tonight Canada wins.......simple as that.......Turco should have been selected over Theordore but what's done is done........I'm just keeping my fingers crossed here that we don't have to see Theordore in Net tonight for the good guys.............

.................................................. NEXT!!

Cheers!~

monkey_00

Calling Theodore a one-year wonder is just plain hate or misinformed. You can say that Luongo is better because he was a stud on a losing team facing 40-50 shots a game but Theo has proven this year that he wasn't a one hit wonder. He had a very good regular season, not outstanding but very good and while not stellar in the playoffs, he was there when it counted, game seven. You can't just say that you put Theo in nets and Canada will lose whilst if we put Luongo we win. I'd also say that I'm not sure Canada is the favorite coming in. Both teams are peaking but the Czechs murdered Sweden while Canada blew out Slovakia, Sweden is obviously the better team. Home crowd is nice but I'm calling this one really tight, even more so if either backups start instead of Brodeur.

>>>Whatever monkey boy<<<

Psycho Joe......

Whatever what?.......Truth hurts right......If Theodore plays in Net tonight Canada loses........If Luongo plays in net tonight Canada wins.......simple as that.......Turco should have been selected over Theordore but what's done is done........I'm just keeping my fingers crossed here that we don't have to see Theordore in Net tonight for the good guys.............and for your information I don't live near Stelco I live near the Royal Botanical Gardens.........heh heh heh

.................................................. NEXT!!

Cheers!~

monkey_00
I don't have a problem with you saying Luongo or Turco are better than Theodore. That's a matter of opinion. IMO All three are great goalies and I wouldn't have a problem with any of them starting tonight if rust wasn't a factor for all involved. Blame Quinn for that one.

But saying Luongo would have better numbers than Brodeur, calling Theodore a one year wonder, saying Canada would lose with Theo, but definetly win with Luongo ain't a solid analysis Chewy and is certainly is far from the truth.

There is no way to say who would have been the better goalie to pick after it is all said and done, but right now Luongo is the better goalie IMO. Both of them have played in very high pressure situations and both have done well (Theo in the playoffs and Luongo in the World Championships).

I for one would have picked Luongo as well, but I am obviously biased. Good point though about both being rusty (thanks Quinn).

>>>I don't have a problem with you saying Luongo or Turco are better than Theodore. That's a matter of opinion. IMO All three are great goalies and I wouldn't have a problem with any of them starting tonight if rust wasn't a factor for all involved. Blame Quinn for that one.

But saying Luongo would have better numbers than Brodeur, calling Theodore a one year wonder, saying Canada would lose with Theo, but definetly win with Luongo ain't a solid analysis Chewy and is certainly is far from the truth.<<<
============================

Psycho Joe........

I already knew that "living beside Stelco" was bad for people's health......I didn't know that we were talking about Stelco or Hamilton on this thread.......Oh well..........you want to talk about Hamilton be my guest..........

Jose Theodore had that HUGE year in which he won the League MVP honours.......what has he done since then?......he's been "O.K." but not nearly as good as he was 2-seasons ago.......most Habs fans (the honest ones) will admit to that......Marty Turco has been one of the better NHL netminders statistically the last couple of seasons of play, something that Theordore has not been...............but as Psycho Joe says; "WHATEVER!"

Cheers!~

monkey_00

Come on Smooth skater, enough with the Hab rose-coloured glasses. Theodore was right to be put 4th in the depth chart behind Belfour to begin with. You may accuse Quinn and/or Gretzky of being biaed and short-sighted but luckily they put Theo at 4th ahead of Hitchcock's other favourite, playoff choker Turco. Theodore has had his struggles but Luongo is just as reliable if not better when he's on the top of his game. Turco has shown he can't handle a big playoff series, yet. To his credit, he did have to deal with a great Avs team but he bombed against the Ducks and wasn't so great earlier in the 03 playoffs against the Oilers. Theodore hasn't had a great series all the way through yet, he either starts bad and finishes strongly, or vice versa.

SS, You're the same guy who argued Koivu was the best Finn in the NHL today. And 2nd best ever!!! Well, potentially he could've been 3rd to Kurri and Selanne but due to weak linemates over the years since we lost Recchi and health issues, he ranks below them and even Tikkanen. Kiprusoff and Lehtonen have the potential to surpass Saku, Numminen and Lehtinen for all-time Finnish greats. Maybe Kovalev as a winger will show everyone how great Koivu really is. He's languished too long on a mediocre team and we'll finally see his true awesomeness in the coming years. His 71 pt. season with Bulis and Zednik in 02-03 coulda been 100 pts. on a team like the Avs or Red Wings.

Enough with this Hab bias. I'm expecting some silly crap like, "Well Richards got invited after one great playoffs and a good reg. season. Big deal, if one year is so great why isn't Ryder on the team. His reg. season was jsut as good considering the team he played for. And his rookie year was better than Richards so in a few years he'll be better than Richards, naturally. Yeah, so if he doesn't get on the next World Cup team or the olympics in 2006, I'll be p!ssed becauser Wayne and the boys hate the Habs. It's not fair! Blah blah blah..." Of course ignoring the fact Richards started off as a 19/20 year old rookie.

I'm not saying anyone would say this, but it's similar to the junk I'm reading about Theodore's lack of respect. Until he puts together a great series through every game, he won't get the nod over Luongo who's shown more game-saving potential for a crappiert squad than the one Theodore led to the playoffs in 02. The reverse which was stated is complete junk, last year's Panthers never had a defenseman as dependable as Brisebois or Quintal- ferchrissakes- that playoff season and that includes J-Bo who of course by next year will be more reliable and better than those two lackies ever were. Hell, FLA had Horton go down and they basically had no real dependable goal scorer which even Yanic Perreault and Oleg Petrov were in 2002! Not even Theodore in his MVP season form could've taken the thin, inexperienced Panthers lineup to the playoffs last season.

[/COLOR][/FONT]
well, Theo was an all-star last year, Turcos has never done anything in the playoffs, and Theo has also been one of the better statistical goaltenders too. And the honest ones? Bye the honest fans do you mean the terribly cynical fans who say montreal would have been better without Theodore and Koivu?

Koivu ranks below Tikkanen.
There goes your credibility

Come on Smooth skater, enough with the Hab rose-coloured glasses. Theodore was right to be put 4th in the depth chart behind Belfour to begin with. You may accuse Quinn and/or Gretzky of being biaed and short-sighted but luckily they put Theo at 4th ahead of Hitchcock's other favourite, playoff choker Turco. Theodore has had his struggles but Luongo is just as reliable if not better when he's on the top of his game.

You're the same guy who argued Koivu was the best Finn in the NHL today. And 2nd best ever!!! Well, potentially he could've been 3rd to Kurri and Selanne but due to weak linemates over the years since we lost Recchi and health issues, he ranks below them and even Tikkanen. Kiprusoff and Lehtonen have the potential to surpass Saku, Numminen and Lehtinen for all-time Finnish greats. Maybe Kovalev as a winger will show everyone how great Koivu really is. He's languished too long on a mediocre team and we'll finally see his true awesomeness in the coming years. His 71 pt. season with Bulis and Zednik in 02-03 coulda been 100 pts. on a team like the Avs or Red Wings.

Enough with this Hab bias. I'm expecting some silly crap like, "Well Richards got invited after one great playoffs and a good reg. season. Big deal, if one year is so great why isn't Ryder on the team. His reg. season was jsut as good considering the team he played for. And his rookie year was better than Richards so in a few years he'll be better than Richards, naturally. Yeah, so if he doesn't get on the next World Cup team or the olympics in 2006, I'll be p!ssed becauser Wayne and the boys hate the Habs. It's not fair! Blah blah blah..." Of course ignoring the fact Richards started off as a 19/20 year old rookie.

I'm not saying anyone would say this, but it's similar to the junk I'm reading about Theodore's lack of respect. Until he puts together a great series through every game, he won't get the nod over Luongo who's shown more game-saving potential for a crappiert squad than the one Theodore led to the playoffs in 02 (the reverse which was stated is complete junk, last year's Panthers never had a defenseman as dependable as Brisebois or Quintal- ferchrissakes- that playoff season and that includes J-Bo who of course by next year will be more reliable and better than those two lackies ever were).

See that's where we disagree, you say Luongo has shown more potential... So until he proves that potential it ain't nothing but potential. Do you actually remember that Habs squad from 2002? Koivu out with cancer, Berezin, Fiset as our backup, Karl Dykhuis, Brisebois was anything but dependable (his last season was his most solid defensively but before that man...), Kilger on the top 6. Trust me it the list goe son and on and it is as crappiest as it gets. Theo led a much more crappier team than this year's Florida squad, but crapiness is always very subjective but I'mre pretty sure it is comparable and not at all a big gap.

I do believe that Luongo and Theodore are not that far away in talent, whose better, I think the jury's still out on that one. Team Canada feels it's Luongo and thats all it matters for tonight's game.

EDIT: The panthers were only 7 games under .500, a testament to Luongo's skill but also to the fact the playoffs were not that much out of reach.

Come on Smooth skater, enough with the Hab rose-coloured glasses. Theodore was right to be put 4th in the depth chart behind Belfour to begin with. You may accuse Quinn and/or Gretzky of being biaed and short-sighted but luckily they put Theo at 4th ahead of Hitchcock's other favourite, playoff choker Turco. Theodore has had his struggles but Luongo is just as reliable if not better when he's on the top of his game.

You're the same guy who argued Koivu was the best Finn in the NHL today. And 2nd best ever!!! Well, potentially he could've been 3rd to Kurri and Selanne but due to weak linemates over the years since we lost Recchi and health issues, he ranks below them and even Tikkanen. Kiprusoff and Lehtonen have the potential to surpass Saku, Numminen and Lehtinen for all-time Finnish greats. Maybe Kovalev as a winger will show everyone how great Koivu really is. He's languished too long on a mediocre team and we'll finally see his true awesomeness in the coming years. His 71 pt. season with Bulis and Zednik in 02-03 coulda been 100 pts. on a team like the Avs or Red Wings.

Enough with this Hab bias. I'm expecting some silly crap like, "Well Richards got invited after one great playoffs and a good reg. season. Big deal, if one year is so great why isn't Ryder on the team. His reg. season was jsut as good considering the team he played for. And his rookie year was better than Richards so in a few years he'll be better than Richards, naturally. Yeah, so if he doesn't get on the next World Cup team or the olympics in 2006, I'll be p!ssed becauser Wayne and the boys hate the Habs. It's not fair! Blah blah blah..." Of course ignoring the fact Richards started off as a 19/20 year old rookie.

I'm not saying anyone would say this, but it's similar to the junk I'm reading about Theodore's lack of respect. Until he puts together a great series through every game, he won't get the nod over Luongo who's shown more game-saving potential for a crappiert squad than the one Theodore led to the playoffs in 02 (the reverse which was stated is complete junk, last year's Panthers never had a defenseman as dependable as Brisebois or Quintal- ferchrissakes- that playoff season and that includes J-Bo who of course by next year will be more reliable and better than those two lackies ever were).

Where to start? Luongo better then Theodore at the top of his game? Sorry, but no chance, Theodore 2002 was Hasek like, I remember Hasek destroying the Habs in the 98 playoffs, well Theodore was like that during 67 games in 2002. Brisebois, Quintal, dependable? In 2002? I need some of that weed. Our defense was easily the least dependable in the entire league that year, we didnt have one single guy who didnt make hundreds of breakdowns each game, at least the panthers had Bouwmeester. Theodore has always been a winner, that cant be said about Luongo.

Your Ryder thing is ridiculous btw

Theodore this year was pretty much a top 3 goaltender until 3/4 of the season, he had fantastic stats and played with a lot of calm but went unto a cold streak, especially at the end of the year. I think he'll be even better next year because he had a lot going against him on the mental side of things, and we all know you need good mental strength to be a great athlete.

Luongo is getting terribly overrated IMO, especially for a guy whos never gone to the playoffs and whom I can see going a whole career without a cup. A lot of people are putting down Brodeur, saying hes a system goalie, hes benefiting from the NJ devils, hes stats are inflated, and all the crap, but hes hands down the best goalie in the league if not in the history of the game. Hes so calm, always in position, fast, good hybrid style, amazing with the puck and rebound, mentally strong, can be good even if he doesnt face tons of shots which is very hard. I think the closest guy in the league in that department is Theodore but he just doesnt have the size nor the puck control, but hes got faster legs and lateral mouvement. Its really sad to see those two guys put down by fans who have very little knowledge of both.

Although I think internationally and to his country, Koivu has meant more, in terms of NHL, Tikkanen had the better career, so far. Saku is my favourite Habs player and I am confident he can become 3rd to Teemu and Kurri, but until he has the big top 10 scoring seasons we know he's capable of, Tikkanen's career is more noteworthy. It's not about who's more talented. I'm talking about career-wise, not talent, let's clear that up.

Koivu is the better player and can be even better than what his career numbers/accomplishments have shown. But Esa was an accomplished playoff performer and scorer for his first 10 years. He won 4 cups too. Koivu doesn't have to win 4 cups to surpass Tikkanen in my list but he has to have more playoff successes and scoring seasons. His health has held him back, but with Kovy it can and will happen for him. If we want to look at most skilled Finnish NHL'ers of all time:
1. Kurri
2. Selanne
3. Koivu
4. Numminen
5. Lehtinen
And a succession of others such as Matti Hagman, Tikkanen, Ikka Sinisalo, etc.

Well, as for the replies to my other post. Don't misunderstand it as bashing. If Theo was #4 on the Team Canada posse's list he certainly is a concensus top 5 goalie in this league. No doubt about it. I don't hate him, I don't want to trade him like many do. I love Theodore asd a goalie, I have a jersey with his name!!! I just think Luongo is better at the moment and will become even better too. He lacks experience and hasn't made the playoffs but he's just better. Like this post states about comparing Koivu to Tikkanen. Esa had the superior career to this point. His playoff acheivements outweigh Saku's playmaking amazingness. But Saku's the overall better PLAYER. Now, Theodore has had the better career no doubt but I feel Luongo is the better goalie. By 24, he's shown more than Theodore did by 24. Of course, he was thrust into action a lot quicker than Jose. Nonetheless, a .931 sv% on a team that still couldn't make the playoffs. Amazing. If your team has a goalie that does that and you STILL miss the playoffs, you are crap.

And there's no way the 01-02 Habs were just as crappy as the Panthers. The Habs actually had a few guys break 20 goals (Petrov, Zednik and Perreault). And Quintal and Breezy were certainly better than most of the d-men Florida trotted out there this season. In 01-02 I recall Breezy recovering quite nicely from his -31 campaign of the year before, drawing kudos from lots of fans and media. Dykhuis was a plus-16 while Quintal was also in the plus and many Hab fans praised his play as instilling toughness, leadership and defensive prowess with the team. Markov had a breakthrough, Souray was always hurt, Rivet did some good things for once and even Traverse avoided sucking. They overacheived but were still superior to FLA's squad. Up front, they were better as well with or without Saku. You also had Gilmour holding it all together.

You can say it was all because of Theo or the inspiration of Koivu but then how did Luongo's goaltending not make anyone look good for FLA defensivelly except for J-Bo and Van Ryn. I thought FLA's defense was certainly crappier than that Hab team. When I look back, it was short-lived but Q was actually a key component to that team. Brisebois is an up n down guy which means next season Patrice will really blow chunks. Yet almost every d-man was in the plus despite our team's +/- not being much more than plus-10. The PK was very good under Carbo yet the PP was nothing special to pad everyone's stats. So an idential sv% for Luongo and his team still doesn't get close to the playoffs (they were not close ok, 7 games under .500 yet the playoffs were very out of reach by the end, hello, by about 16 pts!!! And without Luongo it could have been 30-40 out). No one can blame Luongo as not being great enough to take his team to the playoffs. They were miserable.

But if Luongo can't will his team toward the playoffs/win a vezina or a hart in a few years' span, then he'll still be all potential and no deliverance. I feel like Luongo can come alive and lead his team to an improbable run to the finals in the same way Kiprusoff did. Now, last year we would've said oh Theo is the better goalie. But one season does not a great goalie make. Nonetheless, when you take your team to the finals and do what Kipper did, it's a bigger accomplishment than anything Theodore's done in his career (yes, leading your team to the big game is better than winning the Hart/Vezina yet falling short in the 2nd round). But potentially, Theodore could be the better goalie! Bottom line is; both have had wonderful years with different results. Brodeur did not deserve to win the Vezina this time with a .917 sv% and 11 SOs (a real team reflective stat). Consider that his backups had 3 shutouts combined as well in minimal action. Not saying Brodeur isn't the best, but Luongo got shafted. Anyway, Theo and Luongo have both shown inconsistency as well.

If we can see Theo come back to his 01-02 form (he showed flashes but not long stretches of that ability last season) then I might nudge him ahead of Luongo. It's no popularity contest. For now, Luongo is slighty better than Theo. Not by a very big margin at all, though. However, as a Habs fan, it's great to know that a goalie with the abilities to do the things he has done, Theodore can lead us to the promised land if he's at that dominating level. With an improved team and no holes all around, the Theo of 01-02 could lead the Habs of something like 08-09 to cup glory. It's a projection, but not an entirely ridicluous one by any means.

The Team Canada coaches made the right decision in going with Roberto Luongo over Jose Theodore........Theodore is a One-Year-Wonder......LUONGO is a Stud-Goaltender playing on a crappy NHL team in Florida.......If Luongo played in Jersey instead of Florida he would be posting better numbers than Martin Brodeur.....

Jose Theodore is lucky to be the #3 Goalie for Team Canada.....In my humble opinion that spot should have been reserved for Marty Turco of the Dallas Stars.

Cheers!~

monkey_00


What I find particularly hilarious is how people are insistent on saying Luongo would post better statistics in New Jersey, yet if you truly believe that it's not the case, you're "wrong" or your statement is "not factual." Yet Luongo being able to excel with his flawed fundamentals and lack of consistency at the NHL level is a given.

Keep playing with hypothetical situations if you wish, because they're all you'll have--for a while.

Luongo was put right in the gold medal game last year in the world championships. How much more pressure can there possibly be other than in a Stanley cup game (with Theo has never been in) ? The fact is, Luongo is used to playing a lot of games, he is used to a lot of shots, and he's a goalie that can step in at any time and get the job done. Theo's lack of consistency cost him the start tonight.

Theo and Luongo is a nice debate. One poster right, Theo 2002 was insane. However, Theo 2003 was pretty bad, and 2004 was in the middle. I'm not a fan of Luongo, but if #99 has faith in him, he's probably the right choice.

I have seen Luongo play (in worldchamps) and he has not always been that good. I think this is bad blow for Canda. Still Canada will go to final...

Lets hope that Brodeur cant play in Final...
so Finland will win the hole thing!

Canada with Luongo should still be able to beat the Czechs

Luongo is a good goalie but he needs to get some game action and shots early and play strong to boost his confidence.. then it'll be no difference whether its luongo or brodeur in net

luongo will be the starter one day.. this is his shot now to prove that and claim that future starting spot

Hmmm I dont know if Brodeur would be that good without the defense infront of him in this tournament. From what I have seen, the Canada defense have been playing great. And playoff experience or not, does it really mean that much? I mean Kipper and Giguere made it all the way to the SC final without much playoff expenrience before.

And you must watch Luongo in the last 2 WC to know what pressure is. I rememer WC 2003 where Luongo was throw in after Canada took the lead by 2-0 and Burke got injuried. The Sweden then come back to make the game 3-2. Eventually Canada come back and won the game 4-3, but OMG what a pressue it must have been for Luongo to stop all those shots until Canada would come back and won the game. And I think Luongo would have been doin alot better during that game if he had started from the begining.

And yes, rusty might be a problem for Luongo under this game against the Czech. But we also got to rememer Luongo have just won the WC 2004 gold so maybe he can get the momento goin on during this game from the latest WC.

But I would taken Luongo over Theodore... even over Brodeur :) but hey I got my Luongo glasses on so I cant see anything else ;)

Luongo will be fine I think, it's a home game and after the initial 2 or three saves, the crowd will cheer him on and he's get more confidence. The Czechs will have to make a quick unassuming play early to score on him, and he might break after that.

Hmmm I dont know if Brodeur would be that good without the defense infront of him in this tournament. From what I have seen, the Canada defense have been playing great. And playoff experience or not, does it really mean that much? I mean Kipper and Giguere made it all the way to the SC final without much playoff expenrience before.

And you must watch Luongo in the last 2 WC to know what pressure is. I rememer WC 2003 where Luongo was throw in after Canada took the lead by 2-0 and Burke got injuried. The Sweden then come back to make the game 3-2. Eventually Canada come back and won the game 4-3, but OMG what a pressue it must have been for Luongo to stop all those shots until Canada would come back and won the game. And I think Luongo would have been doin alot better during that game if he had started from the begining.

And yes, rusty might be a problem for Luongo under this game against the Czech. But we also got to rememer Luongo have just won the WC 2004 gold so maybe he can get the momento goin on during this game from the latest WC.

But I would taken Luongo over Theodore... even over Brodeur :) but hey I got my Luongo glasses on so I cant see anything else ;)


Please, please stop with the defense argument about Brodeur, he'll stop any types of shots, hes proven it again and again.

Also, did Kipper and Giguere actually win the SC or did they lose in game 7?

I dont even how that Luongo pressure thing is a good example since he let the Swedes come back from a 2-0 deficit.

IMO the WC isnt pressure, a lot of NHL teams are better then the nationnal teams there, its not really worth mentionning, especially when your comparing with the world cup. I mean, Craig Rivet made team freaking Canada, that should be enough to prove theres no real pressure involve.

Where to start? Luongo better then Theodore at the top of his game? Sorry, but no chance, Theodore 2002 was Hasek like, I remember Hasek destroying the Habs in the 98 playoffs, well Theodore was like that during 67 games in 2002. Brisebois, Quintal, dependable? In 2002? I need some of that weed. Our defense was easily the least dependable in the entire league that year, we didnt have one single guy who didnt make hundreds of breakdowns each game, at least the panthers had Bouwmeester. Theodore has always been a winner, that cant be said about Luongo.

Your Ryder thing is ridiculous btw

Theodore this year was pretty much a top 3 goaltender until 3/4 of the season, he had fantastic stats and played with a lot of calm but went unto a cold streak, especially at the end of the year. I think he'll be even better next year because he had a lot going against him on the mental side of things, and we all know you need good mental strength to be a great athlete.

Luongo is getting terribly overrated IMO, especially for a guy whos never gone to the playoffs and whom I can see going a whole career without a cup. A lot of people are putting down Brodeur, saying hes a system goalie, hes benefiting from the NJ devils, hes stats are inflated, and all the crap, but hes hands down the best goalie in the league if not in the history of the game. Hes so calm, always in position, fast, good hybrid style, amazing with the puck and rebound, mentally strong, can be good even if he doesnt face tons of shots which is very hard. I think the closest guy in the league in that department is Theodore but he just doesnt have the size nor the puck control, but hes got faster legs and lateral mouvement. Its really sad to see those two guys put down by fans who have very little knowledge of both.

Sorry, but Luongo is pretty UNDER rated IMO. Saying he is anything less than the 2nd best goalie in the league would be wrong by most accounts. Luongo has never played on a good team and has been better than Theo if you ask me.

Sorry, but Luongo is pretty UNDER rated IMO. Saying he is anything less than the 2nd best goalie in the league would be wrong by most accounts. Luongo has never played on a good team and has been better than Theo if you ask me.

Neither has Theodore.

Frankly, I'd be more comfortable with Theodore in net tonight, I think he'd do a better job coming in cold, but I don't think it's a big deal.

Please, please stop with the defense argument about Brodeur, he'll stop any types of shots, hes proven it again and again.

Also, did Kipper and Giguere actually win the SC or did they lose in game 7?

I dont even how that Luongo pressure thing is a good example since he let the Swedes come back from a 2-0 deficit.

IMO the WC isnt pressure, a lot of NHL teams are better then the nationnal teams there, its not really worth mentionning, especially when your comparing with the world cup. I mean, Craig Rivet made team freaking Canada, that should be enough to prove theres no real pressure involve.
Didnt Rivet make it as captain as well?

L-U-O-N-G-O

Stop whining Theo fan's, in 40 minutes u'll see my man starting in net

I can't believe I'm hearing that Brodeur is benefiting because of kind of the defense he has in front of him arguement again. It never matters where and what he wins, people always want to shift the credit to something else. Nothing changes.

L-U-O-N-G-O

Stop whining Theo fan's, in 40 minutes u'll see my man starting in net
L is for loser
U is for Ugly
0 is his playoff appearances
N is for none(his awards)
G is for Goat
O is for the face on canadians' collective face when they lose 7-2

There Luongo, its official. Czechs and Finns for the championship.

L is for loser
U is for Ugly
0 is his playoff appearances
N is for none(his awards)
G is for Goat
O is for the face on canadians' collective face when they lose 7-2
Uhh, that's mean! :lol:

Uhh, that's mean! :lol:

Surprisingly accurate, though.

Ahh ya guys should shut it! See what Luongo have done so far in the 1st period?!? And man Brewer got out skated by Havlat, I have yet to see anyone out skating J-Bo! man that guy skate beautiful!

should have taken brodeur out after the second and let somebody else paly the other night who cares about getting a shutout its a team sport

Sorry, but Luongo is pretty UNDER rated IMO. Saying he is anything less than the 2nd best goalie in the league would be wrong by most accounts. Luongo has never played on a good team and has been better than Theo if you ask me.

yeah...and your name is Luongo fan. :D

Cut Luongo's pads, and you'll see big big holes. And his save pourcentage will drop from .931 to .918.

His pads are comparable to those of Garth Snow.

I post after the game...We seen that Luongo let 2 softies enter the net. He made a couple of good save as well. But Brodeur is a lot more solid.

Ahh ya guys should shut it! See what Luongo have done so far in the 1st period?!? And man Brewer got out skated by Havlat, I have yet to see anyone out skating J-Bo! man that guy skate beautiful!

You posted too early. What i seen is a goalie who can't protect a lead. :teach:

There Luongo, its official. Czechs and Finns for the championship.

You showed us! :lol

should have taken brodeur out after the second and let somebody else paly the other night who cares about getting a shutout its a team sport

Great idea. Let's intentionally ice something other than our best team in an elimination game. Also, let's reward Brodeur's stellar MVP play by taking him out early so he can't enjoy a shutout.