why do sweden suck [Archive]

Pepper

09-07-2004, 05:23 PM

Both Finland & Sweden looked mentally & physically tired after their saturday's game, the difference was the level of opposition, Finland just managed to cruise past Germany while Czechs really didn't give any chance for the tired Swedes.

I don't think there's any reason to whip yourself any more than this, Sweden underperformed just like Finland did but Finland used their "get out of jail" -card and now faces the same fate as Sweden when playing against the winner of RUS/USA.

That is unless Finland manages to drastically improve both motivation & work-ethic which seems very hard given the volatile circumstances around Team Finland.

Riddarn

09-07-2004, 05:25 PM

The entire game looked exactly like the 3rd period of the game against the Czechs in the Round Robin. No wonder I saw it coming days ago :cry:

I did. Yay for me. And about the "suck" part, unless sweden start playing like Germany, like we used to, we'll never win anything again.

VAN-HAB

09-07-2004, 05:29 PM

-- Daddy, what does the C stands for on the Habs' jersey?
-- It's for "chokers"
Habs chokers??????????? When did they choke?

SChan*

09-07-2004, 05:31 PM

I did. Yay for me. And about the "suck" part, unless sweden start playing like Germany, like we used to, we'll never win anything again.

your 7-1 prediction was very close. :handclap:

Masao

09-07-2004, 05:41 PM

Habs chokers??????????? When did they choke?

It was an old joke in the Journal de Montreal, a few years ago (back in the beautiful era of Vladimir Malakhov and Dainius Zubrus)

guinness

09-07-2004, 05:59 PM

PecaFan

09-07-2004, 06:01 PM

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sport/0409/07/tk1.jpg

Heh. Free avatar, someone.

Riddarn

09-07-2004, 06:14 PM

Who has worse attitudes: the players or the fans?

Didn't Sweden win silver the last 2 years at the WC's, gold in 1998 at the WC and 1994 at the Olympics? That's not a bad record to have. Losing one game in a money tourny shouldn't be the end of the world.

The only expectations the US fans have for is the basketball team, and we know why they lost. :banghead:

Really, losing 2 finals in a row is not a success. World Championships mean nothing though, it's all about having the best Stanley Cup losers on your team. About the 1994 olympics, I think this victory is perhaps the most overvalued piss victory the swedes ever have gotten. They played more defensive than Germany the entire tournament and just managed to beat out Canada on a penalty shootout. The swedes had great players like Håkan Loob, Tomas Jonsson (NY Islanders of the 80's you might remember), Mats Näslund, Andreas Dackell, Kenny Jönsson and Peter Forsberg. The Canadians were college kids..

leaflover

09-07-2004, 06:19 PM

Heh. Free avatar, someone.
Good one to caption.

How about

"No Mats your going the wrong way,thats the road to the WCH championships,home is thatta way!"

guinness

09-07-2004, 06:34 PM

Really, losing 2 finals in a row is not a success. World Championships mean nothing though, it's all about having the best Stanley Cup losers on your team. About the 1994 olympics, I think this victory is perhaps the most overvalued piss victory the swedes ever have gotten. They played more defensive than Germany the entire tournament and just managed to beat out Canada on a penalty shootout. The swedes had great players like Håkan Loob, Tomas Jonsson (NY Islanders of the 80's you might remember), Mats Näslund, Andreas Dackell, Kenny Jönsson and Peter Forsberg. The Canadians were college kids..

That is a bad attitude (IMO): Gold or bust, and if you win gold, it better be against the best of the best. So all the Soviet teams that won Olympic golds must haven't been very good, if they weren't playing against NHL'ers at the time.

Riddarn

09-07-2004, 06:50 PM

So all the Soviet teams that won Olympic golds must haven't been very good, if they weren't playing against NHL'ers at the time.

No, of course not. They were just never really put to the test at the Olympics, of course stuff happens, like in 1980, but generally they were miles better than any of the opposition. They showed what they could do in the Canada Cups and Summit Series though.

Edit: But perhaps the many olympic gold medals won by the Soviets wasn't worth much in reality, since they were full time professionals and the opposing teams were made up out of college kids, electricians and plummers. Remember professional ice hockey is very new in Europe. The SEL hasn't been truly professional for even 10 years.

VanIslander

09-07-2004, 07:03 PM

Turnovers in their own zone killed them...the Czech forecheckers were unbelieveable as well...

...uh...ha,ha..."foreCzechers" :)
Yes. The Czechs can play a forechecking style from time to time and the Finns usually do play an aggressive forecheck. The Swedes looked laughable trying to send in players to recover pucks first in the corners. (But if they managed to pass their way into the corners they did well, but that's another matter.)

Many Canadian hockey players and coaches, including Gretzky and Bowman, have commented over the years on the similarity in style between Canada and Finland in terms of aggressive and tenacious forechecking. Where Finland has failed in the past, has been in dominant goaltending or clutch goal scoring or effective powerplay. Finland comes into this tourney without some of those other weaknesses (I still question the powerplay) and hence I predicted before the tourney that Finland would play Canada in the final.

In part due to an effective forecheck.

All of that aside, the reason I predicted before the game a 6-2 Czech win (recorded on page one of the game thread) is that Sweden plays without a goaltender! I've watched Tellqvist play exactly seven NHL games and he's looked awful in each and every one of them (even when they won he had moments of bad play); it should have been obvious that a rookie with no international experience would have been better than that sieve.

littleHossa

09-07-2004, 08:33 PM

No, of course not. They were just never really put to the test at the Olympics, of course stuff happens, like in 1980, but generally they were miles better than any of the opposition. They showed what they could do in the Canada Cups and Summit Series though.

Edit: But perhaps the many olympic gold medals won by the Soviets wasn't worth much in reality, since they were full time professionals and the opposing teams were made up out of college kids, electricians and plummers. Remember professional ice hockey is very new in Europe. The SEL hasn't been truly professional for even 10 years.
How proud are Americans of their Dream Team? And up until this Olympics, they were against high schoolers basically. I'm sure that if Canada was dominating hockey in any way with any competition, Canadians would go crazy and chant the players's exploits to no end.

rulin

09-07-2004, 09:46 PM

it's pathetic isn't it?Why is the Swedish Hockey Federation sticking with him? Sweden has the talent to go all the way in a tournament, but they always end up choking.
Now, fans always expect the worst, and it seems as though the players do, too. I think it's fairly obvious they need a new motivator - a new voice.

Edler Statesman*

09-07-2004, 09:53 PM

They didn't play the Sedins.

Burnaby_Joe*

09-07-2004, 10:22 PM

They didn't play the Sedins.

:lol

Edler Statesman*

09-07-2004, 10:32 PM

:lol

is that you, Footemeister?

half of the posts I've seen from you are single emoticons, the other half are trashing Vancouver or Naslund.

Burnaby_Joe*

09-07-2004, 10:35 PM

is that you, Footemeister?

half of the posts I've seen from you are single emoticons, the other half are trashing Vancouver or Naslund.

What, half of my posts? :dunno:

Footemeister? :dunno:

mattihp

09-07-2004, 10:50 PM

Sub-NHL goaltending.

The goaltenders looked between good and great, as long as the defense played very well. But as soon as the defense split up and stopped playing like a team, the goaltenders didn't look over their abilities any more.

Seiza

09-08-2004, 02:25 AM

I blame Hardy! He should have been sacked after the Olympics, he has showed that he hasn't got what it takes. My mother would have coached this team better.. :shakehead

mattihp

09-08-2004, 10:04 AM

There are some things I fail to understand...

Two best offensive defensemen in the same pairing...
Two best defensive/hardheaded defensemen in another pairing...

Why just not go 1+1 and 1+1?

Also... They should've let Affe centre (he's done it a couple of times) Foppa and Näslund, with Foppa occasionally getting subbed by Z so that he didn't tire, and then throw in Axelsson on the right of Sudden and Modin...

Seiza

09-08-2004, 10:36 AM

There are some things I fail to understand...

Two best offensive defensemen in the same pairing...
Two best defensive/hardheaded defensemen in another pairing...

Why just not go 1+1 and 1+1?

I think everyone but Hardy knows this. It's the basics of coaching, one off and one def in each pairing.

Legolas

09-08-2004, 10:48 AM

SensGod

09-08-2004, 12:43 PM

Their goaltending was their undoing, although not the only reason they lost. From the beginning, everyone questioned the goaltenders and Telqvist was horrible, end of story.

Sweden is still a loaded team and still a strong hockey nation. The Czech superstars showed up this time and the Swedish ones didn't...

Totally agree...goaltending killed them in this tournament. The Swedes can have all the forwards and dmen that are the best in the best in the world, but if they don't develop a world class goalie...they won't win anything important.

It's like the Sens...great team on paper, but the goaltending will be their undoing time and time again.

The only teams out there really that have this right now are Canada (Brodeur, Luongo...Luongo and Fleury in the future), Finland (Kipper and Lehtonen in the future) and Russia (Nabokov, Khabibulin and Bryzaglov in the future). The rest of the teams don't really have anything that stands out now or in the future, maybe except for Vokoun for the Czech's.

Classic Devil

09-08-2004, 12:48 PM

Totally agree...goaltending killed them in this tournament. The Swedes can have all the forwards and dmen that are the best in the best in the world, but if they don't develop a world class goalie...they won't win anything important.

It's like the Sens...great team on paper, but the goaltending will be their undoing time and time again.

The only teams out there really that have this right now are Canada (Brodeur, Luongo...Luongo and Fleury in the future), Finland (Kipper and Lehtonen in the future) and Russia (Nabokov, Khabibulin and Bryzaglov in the future). The rest of the teams don't really have anything that stands out now or in the future, maybe except for Vokoun for the Czech's.

USA (DiPietro, Esche, Montoya)

Big Phil

09-08-2004, 05:00 PM

I must say I was hoping for a Sweden Canada final but for some reason Sweden never gets there in recent years. The last two World Championships were good for them until the final, and then this 6-1 shellacking happens.

This was the time, the only time that Sweden would have won. Forsberg, Naslund are both 31. Sundin is 33. Lidstrom is 34. You've got Zetterberg and the Sedins but other than that no one is there to carry Sweden in the future. A lot of it has to do with goaltending. Salo is the best Swedeish goalie to come out in the last 20 years. Unless another Pelle Lindbergh comes around Sweden is in a lot of trouble.

Leo Naphta

09-08-2004, 06:03 PM

Jacques Plante

09-08-2004, 06:13 PM

Goaltending did not undo Sweden this time. Sure, Sweden has goaltending problems and not one of them looked particularly good in this tournament. But, Tellquist can not be blamed for yesterday's loss. More Swedish goals in this tournament has been an effect of sloppy defending than of lousy goaltending. Furthermore, Sweden never got its five on five play working. Since the Swedish roster is on paper more than capable of providing both world class defending and - at least with two lines -attacking - the sad story is that the stars underperformed badly. Why this were so, can naturally be discussed endlessly. In my opinion it is because of incompetent coaching.

Exactly!

Sure, Tellquist isn't the best goalie in this tourny but I don't think that's an excuse for this loss. All the goals were horrible, defensive breakdowns. It got to the point were some of the Czech goals like a shinny game where all the good players go on one side and do what ever they want. Sweden didn't work at all and putting that kind of effort infront of anygoalie will produce the same result. A blowout.

I don't follow the Swedish National system to know who to blame, but someone has to figure it out. These players need to get motivated and maybe a new coach can do that.

deandebean

09-08-2004, 08:53 PM

The Swedes have stopped developping individual talent because they have, unfortunately, instituted defensive play through out their system. You won't see another Peter Forsberg coming out of there before a long time.

You country needs to examine its development system. At the junior level, your teams are not at par with Canada, Russia and the US. Not anymore. You should just examine the way you develop players.

As for the ex-USSR team, well, I thought (seriously) that Kurt Russell explained it the best in Miracle. They had great individual talent, but played within a system of controlling the puck. Plus, they had great stamina because of their military-style training. The pros in the NHL could rarely support the intensity in international competition (the bottom of the barrel being the Challenge Cup in 79), at least not before discovering that days off during the season did not mean days where you could get drunk, but days where you had to train. Since then, North Americans have learned to play the Russians/Soviets (thanks in large part to the US team of 80): constant pressure, speed, containment down low, and stamina. Since then, the Russian teams at the pro level have been solid at best. They have lost their aura of great control-type of game.

monkey_00*

09-08-2004, 09:45 PM

why do sweden suck

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our team looked like freaking clowns out there. Tell me about the leadership of sundin. he sucks. forsberg sucks. naslund sucks. We're not an elite team anymore. Atleast the finns can win the important games. so can the czechs and the canadians.

worst of all. our coach is staying

we deserves to be laughed at.
=========================

They're not that bad.....only in a couple of areas.........

(1) They need to add more team toughness.

(2) They are lacking a true world-class starting Netminder.

(3)........Oh yes.......I know I said "couple of things" but there another reason.......Too many Toronto Maple Leafs players on their roster......OR maybe it's the other way around.................Too many Swedes on the Toronto Maple Leafs?

Cheers!~

monkey_00

Raimo Sillanpää

09-09-2004, 02:04 AM

I looked up a few results..

World u20 championships last 8 yrs (since 96*)
gold 6pt, silver 4pt, bronze 2pt

world u18 championships last 5 yrs (since 99**)
Gold 3, silver 2, bronze 1

*Players age 20 in 96, would be 28 today and 32 four years from now (if there's another World Cup 4yrs from now)
** Canada's lack of success at u-18 level suggests that this tournament isn't that serious yet, hence less point weight than at u-20 level. Also, difference between 18 and 15 year old is imho far larger than difference between 20 and 17 year old.

Points ranking:
Russia 41
Canada 35
Finland 23
USA 15
*******
Czech Republic 14 (12 of these points come from back to back u-20 wins in 2000 and 2001)
Sweden 7
Slovakia 5
Switzerland 4

Notice that Sweden has barely managed more points than Slovakia or Switzerland, although the u-20 being weighted more should favour Sweden (larger talent pool)

Another thing to consider: If germany was team #8 this time, will it be Switzerland's turn in 4 years if there's a World Cup then?

So essentially, team Sweden in this tournament had a bunch of near 30 to over 30 year old greats, and has not had enough talent coming into the squad to push it's older players to perform constantly or be out.
This should also suggest that Sweden should struggle in major international tournaments for the enxt 8 or so years. Alarm bells should be ringing off at the Swedish Hockey Association that they must do somehting about youth now.

Russia and Canada should be joint 1st as Canada doesnt seem to take u-18 seriously yet, (junior leagues too competitive?)
USA one would think, would have a momentary drop, and then rise up again (assuming the oldest players on the team now quit, it should take a while before the youth steps up to the plate)
Finland appears to be on the path to being the top european (excluding Russia) nation for the near future.

Slovakia's youth programme raises concerns..

***** = Handicapped the Czechs because so many of their points come from two tournaments, didn't look to see what the squads were then, could be I'm being unfair to hadicap them but..

Jussi

09-09-2004, 06:34 AM

Why do Sweden suck? Because Conan says so.

BMRBruins

09-09-2004, 07:04 AM

why do sweden suck

1. Prehaps! I'm've was to make football often times. Play? Know. Best football results twice again.

2. Every age I have seen out as a baby. I think I has the solution. Width times height.

3. As a wery old, I can fathom the scene to be with me. Looking always as I ever did. It was not came's. He borrowed mine.

Med vänliga hälsningar,
Stark Dålig

Check it out if you're confused (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail43.html)

Macman

09-09-2004, 07:48 AM

Canada's lack of success at u-18 level suggests that this tournament isn't that serious yet, hence less point weight than at u-20 level.

Lack of success at U18s? Canada has won every under 18 world championship except one.

Raimo Sillanpää

09-09-2004, 07:55 AM

Lack of success at U18s? Canada has won every under 18 world championship except one.

Not accoring to this:
http://www.iihf.com/archive/WU18.pdf

Macman

09-09-2004, 08:20 AM

God, how many U18 world championships are there? Canada just won the under 18 World Cup in Slovakia. It used to be called the Eight Nations. I guess that's the one I was referring too.

ehc73

09-09-2004, 02:39 PM

Not accoring to this:
http://www.iihf.com/archive/WU18.pdf

Any U18s that occur during the regular season of the CHL usually don't get the major junior players going there. I'm guessing it's like an NHL releasing its players to play in the middle of the season, and the season doesn't stop for the tournament. So the best of the Canadian U18s for some of these tournaments are in the CHL, so it's the bantams and college guys that go there.

Dolemite

09-09-2004, 03:19 PM

Our team looked like freaking clowns out there. Tell me about the leadership of sundin. he sucks. forsberg sucks. naslund sucks. We're not an elite team anymore. Atleast the finns can win the important games. so can the czechs and the canadians.

worst of all. our coach is staying :mad:

we deserves to be laughed at.

I watched all of Sweden's games in this tournament and I noticed they all played well when their goaltending was on. When the goalies started to get shaky, so did the rest of the team.

The blame should go to:

1) Coaching, lines were hardly shaken up in the top lines. Hardy doesn't seem to have the guts to make changes to the team when players are struggling..
2) The persons who selected the Goaltending.
3) The Goalies.

Jean_Jacket41

09-09-2004, 04:02 PM

Q: Why do Sweden suck?

A: Its because there is too much swedies on that team!

:lol:

Leo Naphta

09-09-2004, 04:30 PM

Q: Why do Sweden suck?

A: Its because there is too much swedies on that team!

:lol:

LOL. I don't know if you know about this, but years ago, in the Canada Cup 1981, after Sweden had missed the semis, the question was asked to forward Anders Kallur why they had failed so miserably. His answer was: "There were too many Swedes on the team".

Bubba64

09-09-2004, 05:20 PM

:yo: CZECHS are the BEST. We are playing for Ivan ....

Malefic74

09-09-2004, 07:41 PM

SChan*

09-14-2004, 09:06 AM

zetterberg is overrated imo.

Rogalo

09-14-2004, 09:39 AM

Sweden looked old and tired against the Czechs. Zetterberg is really the only young star they have, the rest of their big name players are closing in 10 or 15 year veterans. They just seemed to lack the energy to really play a puck pursuit, hard checking style.

Sweden needs a youth movement, badly.

And with all the skilled puckhandlers they have on that team you'd think they could come up with something other than dumping it in? Hmmm?

Don´t weep my scandinavian friend. We have some rough generation changes ahead of us as well... Straka, Ručinský, Reichel, Jágr, Šlégr, Dopita (didn´t make it in the NHL but one helluva player) - all of ´em are going to quit. Eliáš, Hejduk, Čajánek are around 28 so they have some time ahead of them but still... New blood is coming in. We won the Junior championships in 00 an 01 so I guess we take em from there. But unfortunately I don´t see any REAL superstar on the horizon except Havlát. Hope someone proves me wrong veery soon :)

09-14-2004, 05:04 PM

In my opinion Sweden do NOT suck! There´s so much skill and the players do play as a TEAM! I´m from Finland and I´m suppose to hate their team, but it really is so tallented, that you just GOT to LOve it!

sure it´s easy say it now....

H/H

09-14-2004, 05:07 PM

Sweden looked old and tired against the Czechs. Zetterberg is really the only young star they have, the rest of their big name players are closing in 10 or 15 year veterans. They just seemed to lack the energy to really play a puck pursuit, hard checking style.

Sweden needs a youth movement, badly.

And with all the skilled puckhandlers they have on that team you'd think they could come up with something other than dumping it in? Hmmm?

The junior system has been in shambles for a few years, but it's looking a little better. I still hope they revamp the entire system. We need a more serious and tougher junior system, Canada's would be excellent to imitate. Right now there's too much kiddy play.