Post-Game Talk: Potential new coach discussion thread

[Enniskillen]

It’s not like his record of game 7s is great, gotta be more creative. What did you say? “Actual win” but forgot to mention that it’s just one win in 5 years, hahaha, that’s a real troll from nordic sagas.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Is Berube actually good? He took a team on a Cinderella run but his teams xgf% kept declining every year - very similar resume to Mr. Carlyle.

 

[ITM]

I'm a Bruins fan who is intrigued by your situation. Trying to imagine how Id address the problem.

Frankly the problem isn't that the Leafs are bad. they are inconsistent. they're a melange of trash and genuine assets and figuring out who is what is the first step in the challenge. I don't envy the person whose job is to make that call when it comes to the Leafs.

Last couple postseasons I've had an eye on Toronto because Boston hasn't been all that great and I have a thing for lost causes and underdogs.

I'm honestly impressed with some of your depth guys. Knies is starting to settle into a role as a middle 6 leader on the team. Kid's got a good head on his shoulders. I like Edmondton, he looked great at times. The D had its moments despite the lack of high end talent. Woll is good, although I honestly think he's destined for a platoon role.

I also think that while Keefe isn't getting the most out of your stars, he IS finding ways to get a lot out of the young guys, keeping them motivated, getting them playing with energy. The question of Keefw is, does allowing your depth and supporting cast play well over their heads in the postseason, matter more than pandering to the stars or not. It's a question I can't answer honestly because I don't know. Personally I don't believe in pandering to stars and that's flavoring my take on Keefe, who seems to agree.

my opinion is that the players that buy in are playing well under Keefe. He's got the team organized, the structure is good, and they're capable of stealing games, even in the playoffs, even with the key guys NOT buying in. you look at the young guys you see them in a structure that allows them to thrive. That tells me the coach is doing a pretty good job

but you've gotta do something about the stars NOT wanting to play the way Keefe wants them to. If you asked me what the single biggest anchor around the neeck of the Tornoto Maple Leafs is, that's what I'd answer

The Bruins had this issue years and years ago, with Joe Thornton. It seemed like insanity to trade him but it was the best decision the franchise has ever made. Out went Thornton, in came guys who weren't really stars (Marco Sturm, PJ Axelsson) but played well together, behind a single offensive star named Marc Savard. In came Captain Chara. In came a scrub goaltender who'd been playing in Finland and barely cracked an NHL roster, but played with his heart on his sleeve, named Tim Thomas. A guy we'd been developing behind thornton for a few years, a developmental project named Patrice Bergeron, was already here. In came Boychuk and Ference in a trade with Calgary. In came Krejci and Lucic from the draft. The identity of the team took shape and then took over.

Once the team was buying what Julien was selling and got comfortable in their own skins, they started playing way over their talent level, finally won their first playoff series -- against Montreal of all teams -- and it eventually led to a Cup and to a couple other deepish playoff runs. I don't think we get there if we stick to Jumbo Joe Thornton. The tough decision paid off for us. I think the Leafs are in the exact same position, times four. And I don't envy you.

Oh and in the middle of that building process we traded away another guy that our fans honestly thought was a superstar. His name was Phil Kessel and he'd just scored 40 that year. Not to rub salt in any wounds but you might have heard about how that trade turned out for us.

Well thought post.

Appreciate the line of thinking.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Is Berube actually good? He took a team on a Cinderella run but his teams xgf% kept declining every year - very similar resume to Mr. Carlyle.

Maybe?

Hard to tell. The team did get older plus Pietragelo left.


He's not my first choice, but if Tre is still here, it feels nailed on to happen.

 

[PromisedLand]

Breaking News:

Your new Toronto Maple Leafs coach -> PromisedLand who is gonna bag skate these losers everytime they half ass out there


On a serious note:
We really do need a "demanding coach"; I think they've been on a holiday for a while (ex: Keefe having to walk back his comments, etc...) while Monty calls out Pasta; Pasta takes ownership of his shit play. The mindset and attitude of the players around the league compared to the Leafs players is way different. We need a more blue collar attitude and that is only possible by having a demanding coach IMO (even if that means a shorter shelf-life)

For me personally:
I don't think this team will do much until Tavares and Marner are off the cap so may be bringing in some entertainment for next season.

Options: For FUN
- Torts available from Philly? looked like it may happen just bring him in to make marner cry
- Bring back Babcock and make Marner do lists everyday
- Bring Boudreau on a short-term deal (dude is a Leafs homer, and I feakin' love that guy; even if short-term)

Options: Seriously
- Coach Q (if he is up for it)
- Keefe (yup bring him back and just run it 1 more year until better coach is available and then just fire him; why? what you expect to get done with Tavares, Marner in the line up eating 22M in cap space especially in the post season anyway....???)
- Someone who is demanding and not a push over! (if thinking mid to long term)

Concerns with other coaches, given the context that Leafs will depend on a few youngsters (Holmberg, Knies, McMann, Minten, Cowen, Liljegren, etc...)

- BIG FAT NO to Sutter

- Gallant -> good for a vet team not good for up and coming team IMO

- Berube -> don't think good for an up and coming team; the Blues run was them finding 1. Gloria, 2. Binnington (peak), 3. Peitrangelo/Parayko/Dunn/Edmundson were Huge, 4. was basically a vet team with "few" youngsters; Leafs will be opposite IMO

- Would also not prefer a coach who has had vezina level or close to top 5 goal tending in the league b/c a lot of crap is hidden by a good goalie

 

[colchar]

Is Berube actually good? He took a team on a Cinderella run but his teams xgf% kept declining every year

'Expected'


What a pathetically f***ing stupid thing for stats geeks to care about. Nobody else gives a rat's ass about expected anything, they care about actual results. You know, things that really happen.

 

[colchar]

I have been hoping for Q, but think that the bullshit with Chad Kelly means that MLSE will now avoid anyone with any kind of potential baggage.

 

[Guy Boucher]

'Expected'


What a pathetically f***ing stupid thing for stats geeks to care about. Nobody else gives a rat's ass about expected anything, they care about actual results. You know, things that really happen.

His teams got progressively worse with actual goals too.

 

[stickty111]

Unpopular opinion, but I don't think it's the worst thing to have Keefe return, but only if there is a core change.

 

[SprDaVE]

Is Berube actually good? He took a team on a Cinderella run but his teams xgf% kept declining every year - very similar resume to Mr. Carlyle.

That's a fair issue. You'd also have to look at their roster and if it got any better after he left. The alternative is keeping Keefe or going with someone just as bad or inexperienced seems like a similar issue.

I'd push for Todd Nelson but that's probably not happening.

 

[fahad203]

Gerrard Gallant still available isn't he?

 

[Pinkcat]

I'm a Bruins fan who is intrigued by your situation. Trying to imagine how Id address the problem.

Frankly the problem isn't that the Leafs are bad. they are inconsistent. they're a melange of trash and genuine assets and figuring out who is what is the first step in the challenge. I don't envy the person whose job is to make that call when it comes to the Leafs.

Last couple postseasons I've had an eye on Toronto because Boston hasn't been all that great and I have a thing for lost causes and underdogs.

I'm honestly impressed with some of your depth guys. Knies is starting to settle into a role as a middle 6 leader on the team. Kid's got a good head on his shoulders. I like Edmondton, he looked great at times. The D had its moments despite the lack of high end talent. Woll is good, although I honestly think he's destined for a platoon role.

I also think that while Keefe isn't getting the most out of your stars, he IS finding ways to get a lot out of the young guys, keeping them motivated, getting them playing with energy. The question of Keefw is, does allowing your depth and supporting cast play well over their heads in the postseason, matter more than pandering to the stars or not. It's a question I can't answer honestly because I don't know. Personally I don't believe in pandering to stars and that's flavoring my take on Keefe, who seems to agree.

my opinion is that the players that buy in are playing well under Keefe. He's got the team organized, the structure is good, and they're capable of stealing games, even in the playoffs, even with the key guys NOT buying in. you look at the young guys you see them in a structure that allows them to thrive. That tells me the coach is doing a pretty good job

but you've gotta do something about the stars NOT wanting to play the way Keefe wants them to. If you asked me what the single biggest anchor around the neeck of the Tornoto Maple Leafs is, that's what I'd answer

The Bruins had this issue years and years ago, with Joe Thornton. It seemed like insanity to trade him but it was the best decision the franchise has ever made. Out went Thornton, in came guys who weren't really stars (Marco Sturm, PJ Axelsson) but played well together, behind a single offensive star named Marc Savard. In came Captain Chara. In came a scrub goaltender who'd been playing in Finland and barely cracked an NHL roster, but played with his heart on his sleeve, named Tim Thomas. A guy we'd been developing behind thornton for a few years, a developmental project named Patrice Bergeron, was already here. In came Boychuk and Ference in a trade with Calgary. In came Krejci and Lucic from the draft. The identity of the team took shape and then took over.

Once the team was buying what Julien was selling and got comfortable in their own skins, they started playing way over their talent level, finally won their first playoff series -- against Montreal of all teams -- and it eventually led to a Cup and to a couple other deepish playoff runs. I don't think we get there if we stick to Jumbo Joe Thornton. The tough decision paid off for us. I think the Leafs are in the exact same position, times four. And I don't envy you.

Oh and in the middle of that building process we traded away another guy that our fans honestly thought was a superstar. His name was Phil Kessel and he'd just scored 40 that year. Not to rub salt in any wounds but you might have heard about how that trade turned out for us.

Appreciate your viewpoint but results don't lie.
Keefe has some very good moments such as his handling of the lineup in Matthews absence.
He also has some maddening tendencies where he is stubborn in how he deploys people. Our powerplay excelled when JT and MR were removed from it, JT absolutely kills zone entries. Another example is how well the team played when JT was deployed on the 3rd line where his current level of ability sits. Game 7 when Matthews was available we get both those things which have been proven to be completely ineffective.
We don't need a new coach, we need a coach that produces better results than what we have had.

 

[Guy Boucher]

That's a fair issue. You'd also have to look at their roster and if it got any better after he left. The alternative is keeping Keefe or going with someone just as bad or inexperienced seems like a similar issue.

I'd push for Todd Nelson but that's probably not happening.

I'm on board with a coaching change even though I think Keefe is a solid coach who will go on to having a successful career. At some point you need to shake things up, but you also have to worry that you don't take a major step backwards. The Leafs roster hasn't been amazing lately, especially on defense, but Keefe has made it work. Not every coach can.

I don't know if throwing tons of cash at Berube makes sense when he doesn't exactly have an extensive track record. Is he better than Evason or Woodcroft? I don't know. Quenneville is an obviously great coach (who would lead into speed and offense too) but we know his problems.

 

[SImpelton]

I'm on board with a coaching change even though I think Keefe is a solid coach who will go on to having a successful career. At some point you need to shake things up, but you also have to worry that you don't take a major step backwards. The Leafs roster hasn't been amazing lately, especially on defense, but Keefe has made it work. Not every coach can.

I don't know if throwing tons of cash at Berube makes sense when he doesn't exactly have an extensive track record. Is he better than Evason or Woodcroft? I don't know. Quenneville is an obviously great coach (who would lead into speed and offense too) but we know his problems.

Berube isn't even better than Julien.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm on board with a coaching change even though I think Keefe is a solid coach who will go on to having a successful career. At some point you need to shake things up, but you also have to worry that you don't take a major step backwards. The Leafs roster hasn't been amazing lately, especially on defense, but Keefe has made it work. Not every coach can.

I don't know if throwing tons of cash at Berube makes sense when he doesn't exactly have an extensive track record. Is he better than Evason or Woodcroft? I don't know. Quenneville is an obviously great coach (who would lead into speed and offense too) but we know his problems.

It's tough because coaching isn't an exact science. It's a lot on the team they are on and a lot on management to support them. Scotty Bowman couldn't make the Sharks a cup contender this year. You look at Jim Montgomery, Rick Tocchett or Paul Maurice, they weren't exactly in a good spot before they were hired by their respective teams. We don't really know the coaches personally so it's hard to know how they'd do in this kind of market and team.

Funny enough with Evason, between his WHL, AHL and NHL coaching experience -- He has one 1 single playoff series win back in 2004-2005 in the WHL. None in the AHL or NHL. He has 1 single win in 13 playoff AHL games and 8 wins in 23 playoff NHL games.

Woodcroft is an interesting coach because many believe he had some horrible bad luck before he got fired. The Oilers weren't playing that bad, they just couldn't score at all but everyone knew they'd explode eventually. He made the WCF (lost to the cup winners) and the 2nd round (lost to the cup winners) the 2 years prior to the season he got fired. He should be much higher on the list to hire -- but his experience as a head coach is limited.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I have been hoping for Q, but think that the bullshit with Chad Kelly means that MLSE will now avoid anyone with any kind of potential baggage.

As they probably should.

Bringing Babcock back is more feasible to me.

 

[rumman]

How does Keefe still have a job? I will give them until after the Friday press conference. I'm jumping ship if he's still on board after that.

Me too, I skpped the last yea4nof Boy Wonder, and will do likewise if idiot Keefe is still here. I’d like to say the same for Shanahan, but that POS will no doubt continue to ruin the team, let’s see what said POS has to say this week…….

 

[Rare Jewel]

Fedorov anyone?

Two of the last three KHL championships.

It's only really possible if Shanahan stays, but it's interesting. Malhotra played with him in CBJ so he could have an assistant option here already.

 

[genk]

Why are we discussing the possibility of the Leafs keeping any of the existing coaching staff? They have failed year in, year out. How in the actual f*** do you trot out the same group of 5 guys on the powerplay when they're 1/20? Not one change? That is beyond inexcusable.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Gerrard Gallant still available isn't he?

He is.

 

[647Hockey]

Why are we discussing the possibility of the Leafs keeping any of the existing coaching staff? They have failed year in, year out. How in the actual f*** do you trot out the same group of 5 guys on the powerplay when they're 1/20? Not one change? That is beyond inexcusable.

Probably because despite a ton of failures of Keefe getting them farther in the playoffs, management offered him a two year extension bringing him to 2026. So going into the season, top brass loves him.

 

[DarkKnight]

Is Berube really the saviour? He was destroyed in Philly, considered an absolute shit coach. He gets the interim gig in St Louis, basically a desperate move, on what looks a lost season, run out the string. The team catches lightning in a bottle and goes on an incredible run, makes the playoffs and has everything go their way to the promised land. He never comes near repeating it and is actually sub .500 for his career. Regardless, he has the pedigree, he’d walk in here with cache, remind you of anyone else?

Gerard Gallant is as interesting to me. Ditto Joel Q. I’m not 100 percent sold Berube is all that.

 

[Gallagbi]

That's a fair issue. You'd also have to look at their roster and if it got any better after he left. The alternative is keeping Keefe or going with someone just as bad or inexperienced seems like a similar issue.

I'd push for Todd Nelson but that's probably not happening.

After the whole Babcock fiasco, it feels like fans picking coaches is useless. Not to say there aren't good ones and good options, but so much is about fit over name

 

[The Masters]

Is Berube really the saviour? He was destroyed in Philly, considered an absolute shit coach. He gets the interim gig in St Louis, basically a desperate move, on what looks a lost season, run out the string. The team catches lightning in a bottle and goes on an incredible run, makes the playoffs and has everything go their way to the promised land. He never comes near repeating it and is actually sub .500 for his career. Regardless, he has the pedigree, he’d walk in here with cache, remind you of anyone else?

Gerard Gallant is as interesting to me. Ditto Joel Q. I’m not 100 percent sold Berube is all that.

Personally I think he is overrated.