Player Discussion Marner

[Trapper]

I wouldn't put past them wanting to get some favorable PR.

But getting Adam Oates on a St. Louis Blues podcast to give you backing is quite the obscure tactic.

Willy defended Marner from being a scapegoat and now he’s getting the Oates scapegoat treatment. Willy with the easy matchups. Excellent.

 

[GoonieFace]

You may want to delete this... this is not a great hockey mind like Jay Rosehill...

It's refreshing to hear someone not saying how bad Marner is for once, the best player that has commented too.

Marner definitely shares some blame, but I don't think it is the extent that this board thinks it is.

People want to say Marner is the engine of the team. He drives the power play.

Once the power play sucks, it’s because there are 9 other players.

Everyone claims Marner is their best PK’er, but the PK sucked. It’s not all on him obviously, but he’s part of the problem.

Technically, Pastrnak was not his man, but standing there watching a guy get to a loose puck also doesn’t look good.

Watching the effort by Marner this series was nauseating. And if he was giving it his all, than that’s just sad as well

 

[Rare Jewel]

Willy defended Marner from being a scapegoat and now he’s getting the Oates scapegoat treatment. Willy with the easy matchups. Excellent.

Yeah, I think he's off there. If you're saying that, then he's basically saying the same about JT, and they're all on the same PP unit.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Does anyone actually think Pasta's OT goal was Mitch Marner's fault?

 

[arso40]

How many changes did the Canucks make after they changed the coach?

They added Zadorov and Lindholm after they turned the team around?

It isn't just the players that need their butt's kicked, and Keefe's already had his kicked, right out the door.

Leadership doesn't start on the ice.

Their main difference is Hughes took a huge step and their top pair in general is way better

 

[Tak7]

Did he say anything wrong though?

The PP was an issue, and there are 9 other players who play it.

Marner does face tough competition (no clue if that was the case in the series).

Pastrnak was not his guy.

The Overdrive guys are idiots.

Not sure anything is wrong...

Marner definitely deserves some blame.

The PP runs through him.

He's often the one controlling the breakout and zone entry, and he has the puck on his stick more than anyone else.

Sure, there's other guys on the PP, but he's the PP quarterback for a reason. The other guys who play on it aren't forcing him to hold onto the puck too long and failing to make plays.

Tough competition is irrelevant, imo - superstars play against top competition all the time. If you're one of the highest paid players in the league, the expectation is that you can handle that competition. If you can't, don't ask for that sort of money

 

[GoonieFace]

Does anyone actually think Pasta's OT goal was Mitch Marner's fault?

A combination of him, Reilly and Samsonov. All around just a terrible sequence of hockey. But the least of the blame lies with Marner, but he still could have put some pressure there

 

[Aashir Mallik]

I wouldn't necessarily say finding a McDavid/Draisaitl is the problem - more that you can't pay guys to play at that level and then have them not perform. Matthews/Marner were PAID as RFAs - but they don't take over series the way McDavid/Draisaitl, MacKinnon/Makar, Crosby/Malkin, etc do.

If they were both paid less (and not even at a discount, just on reasonable contracts relative to the market), expectations would be lower, and there'd have been more money to address goaltending, depth scoring, and defence. When we repeatedly lose in game 7s, that's the difference.

Marner's contract was ultimately his downfall. Matthews deserves similar criticism, but he wasn't quite as overpaid, he plays the more premium position, and when you watch him his style of play doesnt drive fans nuts the way Marner's "avoid contact at all costs" style does.

Nylander to your point will have a new contract next year. Same player, so no reason to expect him to be any better, but with his new contract, he'll be facing more criticism if he's putting up ~4-5 points in a 7 game series loss.

I think paying all of them a bit less wouldn't neccessarily do much. I don't think it's the contracts, it's the players themselves. Marner at 9-9.5 changes nothing, ditto with matthews at 10 or nylander at 6. They simply can't show up when it matters. We aren't 1-2 depth pieces away, we aren't a goaltender away, we aren't a defencemen away. We gave up 16 goals on a goalie, scored 12 ourselves. Our goalie gave us 1 goal against in the final game of regulation and we couldn't score more than boston. Add hyman and nothing changes.

I'm starting to believe you might not be able to win with matthews at the top. He might be a barkov level player, someone who needs to be dragged into the game by a tkachuk and get outshined by someone like that. In leafs dreams that would be nylander, but he isn't that calibre either, idk where you find someone like that

I do expect Nylander to be better, he showed he can be for 70 games, i don't need or expect 110 points, he's not that good, but I should be able to expect 95 points.

Everyone says depth wins cups, but stars have to lead the way, and ours just don't

 

[Aashir Mallik]

A guy who I think should be a candidate for head coach is Adam Oates (I get that he won't), giving his support to Mitch.

Interesting, and he certainly doesn't hold back on Willie.

LOL wtf does that mean. Oates has 0 clue what he is saying, that entire point makes 0 sense. What does calling out a shit play and idea have to do with playing "second" tier competition.

so you can't be held accountable for your shit play by others? Marner didn't even play macavoy and lindholm really. That was mostly Matthews. Marner has every excuse made for him


also, I'd expect my "selke" winger to make plays that aren't just his responsibility to save games. I guess marner's a selke player except for when we require a selke level play

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Nice

 

[notbias]

The PP runs through him.

He's often the one controlling the breakout and zone entry, and he has the puck on his stick more than anyone else.

Sure, there's other guys on the PP, but he's the PP quarterback for a reason. The other guys who play on it aren't forcing him to hold onto the puck too long and failing to make plays.

Tough competition is irrelevant, imo - superstars play against top competition all the time. If you're one of the highest paid players in the league, the expectation is that you can handle that competition. If you can't, don't ask for that sort of money

Zone entry is him and Matthews and then Nylander and Tavares on the blueline on entry, it isn't just him.

I don't feel like he touches the puck a notable amount more on the PP than anyone else, maybe I am mistaken though.

Our PP (and failure), seems more like a group effort than a single guy.

I don't know if the tougher competition is accurate, but the Pastrnak thing and the PP are. He is a part of the failure, but I think he is being targetted as the reason everything is going wrong, and I think he is a small reason, not the entire reason.

 

[arso40]

You may want to delete this... this is not a great hockey mind like Jay Rosehill...

It's refreshing to hear someone not saying how bad Marner is for once, the best player that has commented too.

Marner definitely shares some blame, but I don't think it is the extent that this board thinks it is.

Oates isn't blaming him at all and lying and saying he's playing against the tough competition looooooool he wasn't on matthews line so it sounds suspect at best wonder if Willie's dad rubbed him wrong, were they teammates in Washington

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I knew Oates reminded me of someone. He's looking like Albus Dumbledore with those half moon glasses

 

[Rare Jewel]

if Willie's dad rubbed him wrong, were they teammates in Washington

See, I went and checked that. They never played together, but Michael did replace him, more or less.

So, who knows?

 

[thewave]

Zone entry is him and Matthews and then Nylander and Tavares on the blueline on entry, it isn't just him.

I don't feel like he touches the puck a notable amount more on the PP than anyone else, maybe I am mistaken though.

Our PP (and failure), seems more like a group effort than a single guy.

I don't know if the tougher competition is accurate, but the Pastrnak thing and the PP are. He is a part of the failure, but I think he is being targetted as the reason everything is going wrong, and I think he is a small reason, not the entire reason.

Marner is simply not a person that wants to get his hands dirty. He wants to be like Marleau and have a career without injury. Do some fancy plays, rack points and highlight reels.

Alexander Semin

 

[mydnyte]

A combination of him, Reilly and Samsonov. All around just a terrible sequence of hockey. But the least of the blame lies with Marner, but he still could have put some pressure there

Nope...
Samsonov couldnt play the puck as it was too far from him, and if Pasta beats him there its an empty netter.
Marner, not at all, Pasta was Bertuzzi's man and he just floated off for a change when Boston had control of the puck
Rielly, yea, he has a lot of the blame, he should have beat Pasta to the puck once he saw the play developing

I'd say its 50% on Bert, and 50% on Rielly ...you cant blame the goalie for not risking the season on a risky poke check when Pasta was coming top speed (and he is poor at handling the puck anyways)

Though Keefe deserves a lot of it too, for not having Matthews on the ice to start OT.

 

[thewave]

Does anyone actually think Pasta's OT goal was Mitch Marner's fault?

They all dropped the ball. That was a likely set play and Pasta read the live boards and gunned it. He caught them sleeping on what they thought was a routine retrieval.

Marner Sammy Rielly and even Nylander. Marner should have scoped out what was going on around him and by that time he was blown past and the game was done.

 

[Bellzy]

Read something today about Nashville being interested in marner if the leafs move him this summer. Speculation is the trade would start with marner for saros +

 

[GoonieFace]

Nope...
Samsonov couldnt play the puck as it was too far from him, and if Pasta beats him there its an empty netter.
Marner, not at all, Pasta was Bertuzzi's man and he just floated off for a change when Boston had control of the puck
Rielly, yea, he has a lot of the blame, he should have beat Pasta to the puck once he saw the play developing

I'd say its 50% on Bert, and 50% on Rielly ...you cant blame the goalie for not risking the season on a risky poke check when Pasta was coming top speed (and he is poor at handling the puck anyways)

Though Keefe deserves a lot of it too, for not having Matthews on the ice to start OT.

Samsonov was too deep in his net, not really blaming him though. Marner had an opportunity to put some back pressure on Pastrnak, but chose to watch instead

 

[Stephen]

I can only imagine how much good will Marner and Marner Camp would earn in this city if he just said “I haven’t been nearly good enough, nobody knows that as much as me… and will do everything in my power to do x, y, z… to get this team closer to the Stanley Cup” instead of the “it’s Willie’s fault”, “it’s the media’s fault,” “wasn't my guy”
etc.

 

[Notsince67]

That Oates rant was so dumb. Don't know anything about him off the ice but maybe his intellect is on par with Marner's, who knows?


It's simple - do you care about regular season, or playoffs?

If the answer is regular season than trading him to make the team better would be so difficult we wouldn't even be talking about it, we'd just extend him.

If the answer is playoffs, you could give him away for nothing and the cap space alone would be more than enough to make the team better.

Yes he does have the NMC, glad to see you're on the ball!

Please stop responding to my messages with such stupid conclusions. It isnt even a good trolling attempt. He cannot be given away. He can be released and the Leafs are still on the hook for his contract. They could allow his contract to expire. They CANNOT give hime away, waive him or trade him without his consent.

I can only imagine how much good will Marner and Marner Camp would earn in this city if he just said “I haven’t been nearly good enough, nobody knows that as much as me… and will do everything in my power to do x, y, z… to get this team closer to the Stanley Cup” instead of the “it’s Willie’s fault”, “it’s the media’s fault,” “wasn't my guy”
etc.

He didn't. It was Adam Oates who said that.

 

[Superstar]

Did he say anything wrong though?

The PP was an issue, and there are 9 other players who play it.

Marner does face tough competition (no clue if that was the case in the series).

Pastrnak was not his guy.

The Overdrive guys are idiots.

Not sure anything is wrong...

Marner definitely deserves some blame.

So trying to win as a team in the playoffs and get over the hump comes down to "wasn't my guy" when the guy was literally skating pass you and you had the chance to stop him? I bet players like Bergeron don't play like that.

I guess the gift by Swayman to Marner also comes down to "wasn't my puck to score" so he just took the long perimeter skate around the net to avoid a hit...no wonder he's sucked so badly in the playoffs...attitudes like this with no killer instinct.

 

[Antropovsky]

Mitch throwing his gloves mid-game because he's worried about what the newspaper will print is one of the dumber takes I've heard

I don't agree with Oates, I think Marner threw his tantrum because Nylander AND Matthews gave him a bit of a talking to. I think the play immediately before this was a powerplay, where Marner takes a light crosscheck in front of the goalie and falls like he was shot and then instead of getting up immediately and playing hockey, he started whining to the ref. Hence Nylander saying "quit whining bro". I think it was the very same game too where Marner stick was knocked out of his hand, and Marner began yelling at the ref. Lundqvist pointed out at Intermission (not speaking sowcifically about Marner) that in the playoffs players need "a heavy stick". Truthfully, is anyone softer out there than Marner..stick easily hit out of his hand, a light breeze knocks him over, and he refuses to go into corners or scrums.

Back to Marners tantrum. Marners body language hands out like this ... between Nylander and Matthew's and talking while looking forward and and not directly at just one of them, indicates to me that both were criticizing Marner. Why would Marner throw his gloves and have a "I didn't do anything wrong" facial expression if it was Nylander and Matthew's arguing like first reported? And why would he have a "I didnt do anything wrong" expression and put his hands out to the sides, if he was mad at Matthews?

As I said, the only other time Marner threw a tantrum was when Keefe called him out in front of his teammates for two turnovers when the team was in the middle of a losing streak. He is the type of player that gets upset when blamed, but doesn't necessarily get mad at his teammates for anything. Nothing seems to bother him more than having to take blame.

I think both Nylander and Matthews were upset with him and Marner, as we know, emotionally just cannot take heat. But I could certainly be wrong.

 

[AvroArrow]

So trying to win as a team in the playoffs and get over the hump comes down to "wasn't my guy" when the guy was literally skating pass you and you had the chance to stop him? I bet players like Bergeron don't play like that.

I guess the gift by Swayman to Marner also comes down to "wasn't my puck to score" so he just took the long perimeter skate around the net to avoid a hit...no wonder he's sucked so badly in the playoffs...attitudes like this with no killer instinct.

Still drives me nuts, literally handed him the puck behind the net.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

In fairness Marner has a past history of rebelling against strong management,

He didn't like when Lou Lam didn't give him all his rookie bonus in his ELC as Mitch believed he was entitled to. Complained publicly and then made Clueless Dubass on his next deal to make him right,

Marner certainly didn't like Mike Babcock style of coaching and motivation as he didn't get his way to play with Matthews, and didn't like the coach shared other info that Marner had provided the coach.

Remember Babcock buried Marner down the Leafs line-up trying to keep him away from tougher match-ups and a balanced Top 9 not top heavy Top 6.

Hyman --- Matthews -- Nylander
Marleau -- Kadri ------- Brown
JVR ------- Bozak ----- Marner

People forget one of Marner MOST productive playoff seasons came when Mike Babcock was his coach and they took Boston to 7 games in 2017-18. Where he had 2-7-9 points and +2 ..

View attachment 871561

To be fair he shouldn't have shared that was bullshit.

You don't have him make a list and then go "hey guys Mitch thinks You're lazy , see? he wrote a list, it was him."