Player Discussion Marner Talk - Fresh, insightful comments are welcome

[Gary Nylund]

Few little things coming out, but mostly what Shanny said about “patterns”, feels like the team may want to make a move and Marner is obviously sensitive to criticism, it’s been so over the top since the playoff loss, can see his camp agreeing to any suggestions.

Shanny also mentioned goals being scored differently in the playoffs than in the regular season, seemed like that was about Marner too.

Everyone I’ve heard accepts you’ll lose the trade, that’s a given. You console yourself with some cap space, but Tre will never win that deal. It’s why it’s an unfortunate ending, but seems where it’s headed.

Considering how useless Marner's been in the big games, it's more like Tre can't possibly lose that deal. Nothing unfortunate about moving out a player who's made a habit of choking when the pressure rachets up.

I call that asset cloning.

Take a proven asset and sell it off for pure futures and free up maximum cap.

Spend the cap in free agency and have flexibility to trade those returns for something else.

We actually talked about that on here after the Columbus series. I tossed out the idea of trading Marner for the Lafreniere pick, which admittedly would have been terrible up till now. But we would have also had free cap to spend in the 2020 offseason.

Closest we ever came to that when Dubas traded Kapanen to Pittsburgh for the Amirov pick and then spent the cap savings during the Brodie UFA cycle.

IIRC we've talked about this concept on a number of occasions and it makes complete sense to me.

 

[facelessjoe1990]

For people who talk about losing a Marner trade. There is a saying. Lose a battle to win the war.
I personally think Seattle makes the most sense for Marner.

 

[al secord]

Been watching Overdrive lately, absolutely loving O'Dog's takes on Marner. Put it this way, he's not impressed.

If anyone would know about wasted talent...

 

[Trapper]

For people who talk about losing a Marner trade. There is a saying. Lose a battle to win the war.
I personally think Seattle makes the most sense for Marner.

The bar for trading Marner is make the playoffs and lose in the 1st round. That’s pretty much where we are now.
What we get in return, a goalie and whatever UFAs we sign, just need to make the playoffs and we are par.

 

[ToneDog]

Yep. It is what it is. A stupid manager caused this guy a lot of grief because most of us wouldn't scrutinize him so bad.

8.5m as is doesn't sound bad at all. Even today as he performs.

Somebody can correct me if I am misremembering but didn't Dubas have to trade Marleau and pick up Clarkson from Vegas to make room for eventual Marner overpayment? If so, he cost us Jarvis who is a beauty.

• 2019-Jun-22 Marleau traded from Toronto Maple Leafs with conditional round 1 pick in the 2020 draft (Seth Jarvis) and round 7 pick in the 2020 draft (Alexander Pashin) to Carolina Hurricanes for round 6 pick in the 2020 draft (Axel Rindell)

For people who talk about losing a Marner trade. There is a saying. Lose a battle to win the war.
I personally think Seattle makes the most sense for Marner.

Even if we lose the trade, the bonus is we rid ourselves of Paul. That should make the trade easier to swallow.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Ferris is a loud talking big mouth ..



Another reason why trading Mitch is gonna be difficult .. omg one can only take Paul for very short stints of time .. Ferris drank some beer and scotch in our clubhouse a couple weeks back on an invite from Hall .. what a loud mouth

My trades guys and I were intimately involved in building the new arena in Windsor in 2007-2008. We had full access to EVERYWHERE once it was operational as I had staff operating it. Many of them met Taylor Hall. All of them said he was dumb as a stump.

Just like Mitch. Another talented hockey player recognized as such at an early age.

 

[Dayjobdave]

Remember Mitch blocking shots and playing hard in the Washington series? Where did that Mitch go?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Somewhat related question:

I read in an article that's a couple of months old, a fact I think most are aware of: That Marner is Cowan's childhood idol.

I want to for the sake of keeping a throughline of genuine concern for the club and reiterate from posts I've made complaining about Marner, that: I wanted him at the draft, and I thought he was developing nicely under Babcock until his big contract and that I remember Marner being a much more courageous player in junior...not unlike Cowan.

For those that have actually watched both play, what are the similarities and differences?

And a second question (emphasis on maintaining a ruthless scrupulosity towards our club's best interests before and while we think about what we can and should do with Marner)

Do we see a scenario in which Marner regains his form because of Cowan?

What "form" is that? Marner is and will never be as physically aggressive as we've already seen Cowen is.

Ok, the return will be garbage. Nothing of value coming back.

His dad wants $14M a season reportedly.

Cool. Does Paul play hockey?

 

[Gary Nylund]

If anyone would know about wasted talent...

Not sure what you mean, but whatever.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Shanny also mentioned goals being scored differently in the playoffs than in the regular season, seemed like that was about Marner too.

Bang on.

 

[ToneDog]

That’s a great way to get both players and cap space. 2 excellent prospects (forward and D), then sign 2 UFAs, forward and D, get a goalie and you’ve basically brought in about 5 players for 1. Then 11 million available next year.

I doubt a team will take the full cap hit. I expect money to come back. Marner for Saros makes some sense. Hopefully we can get them to add something. Does Mitch like country music and does ROR put in a good word?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

• Says that he's spoken to people in Marner's inner circle (not his friends), who have said that there may be an appetite to consider waiving the No Move, depending on the market & scenario.

Listen Marner: you’re out, beggars can’t be choosers. You’re an idiot with an idiot team if you think you should start the season with the Leafs.

• Thinks there is a primary fit with Nashville and Toronto - both Marner and Saros have 1 year to go on their deals.

Yes to Saros. Yes please

 

[mydnyte]

I doubt a team will take the full cap hit. I expect money to come back. Marner for Saros makes some sense. Hopefully we can get them to add something. Does Mitch like country music and does ROR put in a good word?

Saros would be a huge mistake. you dont trade for a goalie who never wins in the playoffs, especially a small one expecting a contract bigger than they are
Askarov, all day, Saros, and we're screwed

 

[arso40]

Alleviated is a much better way to put it. I just think 3 games is a long time to miss due to pain. Karlsson played weeks for the Sens on one ankle. Forsberg was on death's door for the Avs. Lost his spleen.

The man could not see like are you ignoring that point ??

 

[Stephen]

The man could not see like are you ignoring that point ??

Count me on Team Nylander in general but the information gap on that one was a bit odd considering Nylander was practicing during that time. But like you say, if he couldn’t see properly he shouldn’t have been playing.

 

[saffronleaf]

You make a good point about the only way Mitch could be re-signed. If he sees reality and signs a reasonable contract. It's pretty binary. Mitch's camp comes to the table and says they want Mitch to be a leaf and they will do a team friendly deal, or Mitch's camp comes to the table and says "Mitch is worth as much as Matthews, and certainly more than Nylander." The only question is which of those two things happens.

how low are we talking?

league min x 8 years, i might consider that

 

[arso40]

Count me on Team Nylander in general but the information gap on that one was a bit odd considering Nylander was practicing during that time. But like you say, if he couldn’t see properly he shouldn’t have been playing.

He's the last guy on the whole roster I'm questioning about being available he doesn't miss regular season games I doubt he's gonna miss playoff games unless he has no choice in the matter hes a born and bred hoccey player

 

[Confucius]

The bar for trading Marner is make the playoffs and lose in the 1st round. That’s pretty much where we are now.
What we get in return, a goalie and whatever UFAs we sign, just need to make the playoffs and we are par.

Sounds good but the reality will be no Mitch and 1 Bertuzzi plus 1 Brodie. Playoffs will then be iffy at best

 

[Trapper]

Sounds good but the reality will be no Mitch and 1 Bertuzzi plus 1 Brodie. Playoffs will then be iffy at best

How this is handled (and again it’s all speculation at this point) is how Tre will live or die. You’ve got to pick the right prospects in a trade. Based on the locations you might be given. Then you can look at a Geuntzel/Marchessault and Montour free agency. We could walk from Bertuzzi and keep Domi.

 

[Stephen]

Sounds good but the reality will be no Mitch and 1 Bertuzzi plus 1 Brodie. Playoffs will then be iffy at best

Mitch and Brodie out is $16 million in cap space. That would make keeping Bertuzzi fairly easy if you wanted to, plus still have another $10 million or so to pump into defense.

 

[sunstersun]

Saros would be a huge mistake. you dont trade for a goalie who never wins in the playoffs, especially a small one expecting a contract bigger than they are
Askarov, all day, Saros, and we're screwed

I think a goalie would be a mistake anyways, but maybe I'm wrong. If Woll maintains his play and is healthy this year, it's gonna be hard not to give him the job. If he's injured again, yeah big bucks for a goalie

I'd rather get someone like Keller or a D.

 

[TMLife17]

Saros would be a terrible deal 1for1 for us. But I guess it’s better than nothing.

 

[Confucius]

Mitch and Brodie out is $16 million in cap space. That would make keeping Bertuzzi fairly easy if you wanted to, plus still have another $10 million or so to pump into defense.

I guess I wasn’t very clear. It’s easy to say we have 16 million to spend. Past performance shows we will pick up guys like Brodie, Bertuzzi, Klingberg, Domi, Samsonov etc… I can’t see us being better.

 

[MSZ]

Remember Mitch blocking shots and playing hard in the Washington series? Where did that Mitch go?

That was still the best series this core have played to date, that includes the Tampa series they won last year.

 

[Apex Predator]

Saros would be a terrible deal 1for1 for us. But I guess it’s better than nothing.

What’s up with Dante Fabro? Could be a prime pick up ready for a huge breakout. Marner for saros, fabro pick and or prospect?