What do we do with our 2024 1st

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Are you suggesting that Berggren is an elite perimeter playmaker? I will let you walk that back right now...

Woah...no

I'm not talking about "a" player just a style of player

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I think you nailed it.

I still think you develop a two-way NHL game by playing IN the NHL. I certainly see Pelican's point too, though.

College doesn't fully prepare you for the workplace. You still need to develop once you're there. And playing AHL defense doesn't fully prepare you to play D in the NHL. Not all prospects are like Mo and Ray, and Berg needs NHL minutes to develop, mistakes or not.

I've always just been of a... I don't know that I'd call it brass ring... but a "if you're talented enough to play in the NHL and develop in the NHL, it will hop off the page. Like Babcock's hunk of cheese.

I know it's too common that everyone is like "my favorite player didn't get a fair shot"... but you're not owed a shot. Read Sean Avery's book when he hit the 2001-2002 Wings. You do something to stand out.

 

[jkutswings]

Not all prospects are like Mo and Ray, and Berg needs NHL minutes to develop, mistakes or not.

That's entirely possible. The question I don't have an answer for is the level of desire for this specific player to refine his game. If Berggren is willing to work his tail off to round things out, then by all means, give him a shot to the extent that he earns one.

But that's different from what some others are pushing for: he can score in the AHL, so toss him in the top six, no matter his warts, and I'm sure he'll be fine.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

That's entirely possible. The question I don't have an answer for is the level of desire for this specific player to refine his game. If Berggren is willing to work his tail off to round things out, then by all means, give him a shot to the extent that he earns one.

But that's different from what some others are pushing for: he can score in the AHL, so toss him in the top six, no matter his warts, and I'm sure he'll be fine.

100%.

And the thing that drove me nuts is "Well, this hockey hall of famer loses puck battles and you don't care... why do you care that a rookie does?"

It's the same nonsense of "Oh, Jonathan Ericsson blew his assignment and let Steven Stamkos walk him... Adam Almqvist or Ryan Sproul could have gotten walked like that too.

Or people losing their minds in the 2014 playoffs when the Wings called up Joakim Andersson to fill in a spot over Anthony Mantha after a center got hurt.

Like, I'm all for stumping for individual rookies. My name wants Pelikan to fly really high. But if he's trash, then I'll see that he's trash and I'll let it drop. Or Cossa. lovd Cossa too.

 

[Indrid Cold]

That's entirely possible. The question I don't have an answer for is the level of desire for this specific player to refine his game. If Berggren is willing to work his tail off to round things out, then by all means, give him a shot to the extent that he earns one.

But that's different from what some others are pushing for: he can score in the AHL, so toss him in the top six, no matter his warts, and I'm sure he'll be fine.

Very true. Berg's lack of minutes probably reflects his effort/work ethic more than his abilities.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Very true. Berg's lack of minutes probably reflects his effort/work ethic more than his abilities.

He just doesn't help you when he doesn't have the puck. He does next to nothing to help you get it back if you don't have it. I am not asking him to be a "200 ft player." I am asking that he not be a wallflower when the Wings don't have the puck.

 

[heyfolks]

What do we do with our 1st rd pick ??​

Win the lotto and move up to #5. Yes, I know the odds, but I also recall the odds when they were the worst team in hockey. Make it happen Gary.

Red Wings Have the Worst Draft Lottery Luck this Decade - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Over the course of the last decade, the Detroit Red Wings have had the worst draft lottery luck in the entire NHL.

thehockeywriters.com

THEN.... trade every pick in the 24 draft. Bergrenn and Kasper for the #1.

 

[13to40]

Haven’t followed this year’s draft class too closely as compared to years past, but i wouldn’t at all mind the team swinging for a home run type player in the first round. High risk high reward.

2019 draft comes to mind where Montreal had Cole Caufield fall into their laps. Somebody with a booming shot would be nice.

 

[FMichael]

Trade the pick for a younger player with term​

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Yzerman use this years 1st rounder (unless of course by some miracle we 'win' the lotto and drop down to 5th overall) and package it for a legit 2nd line forward who isn't any older than DBoss.

We won't know what this year has to offer - chances are it'll be a long term development and who knows if the guy will ever make an impact at the NHL level.

 

[lilidk]

Get Sennecke, currently leading points producer OHL playoffs

 

[Pavels Dog]

He just doesn't help you when he doesn't have the puck. He does next to nothing to help you get it back if you don't have it. I am not asking him to be a "200 ft player." I am asking that he not be a wallflower when the Wings don't have the puck.

Honestly sounds like you have a vendetta against him. He's improved a lot in his off-puck play. Doesn't mean there's not areas of weakness still but I really question why he's being held to a standard that for example Daniel Sprong seems to be exempt from. Kane too, but I understand that a powerplay assist once per game makes it impossible to criticize his complete lack of any defensive effort for the other 59 minutes per game.

I mean I couldn't imagine seeing Sprong or Kane ever making even one play like this:

 

[jkutswings]

Doesn't mean there's not areas of weakness still but I really question why he's being held to a standard that for example Daniel Sprong seems to be exempt from. Kane too, but I understand that a powerplay assist once per game makes it impossible to criticize his complete lack of any defensive effort for the other 59 minutes per game.

Sprong should be let go. He was a plug that filled a spot for a season and has zero chance of being in the long term plans.

Kane depends on the price. I certainly do not like the level of defense that he plays, but, depending on the price, the level of the offense he provides may or may not be worth it.

If Berggren provided the type and level of offense that Kane does, he'd be in the same camp (still don't like his lack of other facets, but for now he's worth keeping on a cheap deal).

BUT. HE. DOESN'T. Not even close.

Why is it so awful to say that a middle six caliber of prospect needs to do more than just be one dimensional?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Honestly sounds like you have a vendetta against him. He's improved a lot in his off-puck play. Doesn't mean there's not areas of weakness still but I really question why he's being held to a standard that for example Daniel Sprong seems to be exempt from. Kane too, but I understand that a powerplay assist once per game makes it impossible to criticize his complete lack of any defensive effort for the other 59 minutes per game.

I mean I couldn't imagine seeing Sprong or Kane ever making even one play like this:

After watching 80+ AHL/NHL games of him, one video clip is not going to change my opinion of his play off of the puck. I don't have a vendetta against him personally, I just think he is a prospect that is regularly misevaluated around here from people driven by wishful thinking. He fits squarely into the bucket of undersized "skill" player that has burned me enough in the past. At a certain point you learn not to put your hand on the stove. If he was skilled enough to play the game the way he currently plays it, he would already be in the NHL. He isn't an awful prospect, but he is a flawed one.

If you want to set yourself up for disappointment, be my guest.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Honestly sounds like you have a vendetta against him. He's improved a lot in his off-puck play. Doesn't mean there's not areas of weakness still but I really question why he's being held to a standard that for example Daniel Sprong seems to be exempt from. Kane too, but I understand that a powerplay assist once per game makes it impossible to criticize his complete lack of any defensive effort for the other 59 minutes per game.

I mean I couldn't imagine seeing Sprong or Kane ever making even one play like this:

I am always loath to give massive amounts of credit to something like this as being a great defensive play… or rather not to hold not doing it against a player.

Most of the time. Desperation plays like that happen because you f***ed up an easier play earlier.

Like I’d actually be quite annoyed if my 10+m PPG sniper tried doing something like that and hurt himself.

Same as when Ty Bert was here and he’d dive in front of pucks down two late. Like it’s a noble thing but if you’re being counted on to be a game-in, game-out scoring threat, that’s reckless play.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Cossa is the starter the season after this one and absolutely he'll play a Lyon type role in 24-25. He's not as far away as you think.

And none of those goalies hold first round (15th OA) value, TDL or now or ever. Cory Schneider as an early 20s superstud prospect got 9OA (Bo Horvat). Gibson in his 30s, Ullmark in his 30s, and Markstrom in his 30s clearly do not.

I am a big fan of buying low on John Gibson. He actually bridges the gap quite well to Cossa in my opinion. He has three years left and we might get some salary reduction and a willingness to take on Husso. Cossa should get his feet wet in a few games next year, backup the year after then go into a 1A & 1B scenario in Gibson’s final season.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I am a big fan of buying low on John Gibson. He actually bridges the gap quite well to Cossa in my opinion. He has three years left and we might get some salary reduction and a willingness to take on Husso. Cossa should get his feet wet in a few games next year, backup the year after then go into a 1A & 1B scenario in Gibson’s final season.

I'd prefer Markstrom personally...but yeah, same idea...

I suspect we keep our pick in 2024 but I'd not be surprised to see our 2025 1st dealt as part of a pckg for a Dman...ie Theodore

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The thing I haven't seen addressed is, if the Wings move the pick for an established player with an established player salary, how do they fit that in? Things are going to be tight as it is.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

The thing I haven't seen addressed is, if the Wings move the pick for an established player with an established player salary, how do they fit that in? Things are going to be tight as it is.

Well...my guess is some of our UFAs will not be resigned, others resigned for less, and we will move out some salary as part of any deal or separately

 

[norrisnick]

The thing I haven't seen addressed is, if the Wings move the pick for an established player with an established player salary, how do they fit that in? Things are going to be tight as it is.

Regardless of what else we do at least two guys making $3M+ need to be shipped out. With picks or whatever if need be.

We need to open up roster spots.

 

[Gniwder]

I mean I couldn't imagine seeing Sprong or Kane ever making even one play like this:

Watch the whole video, he wouldn't have needed to dive if he wasn't completely coasting earlier. If anything that video shows why he wasn't on the Wings roster. That slow coast was worse than Kane or Sprong, by a huge margin.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Watch the whole video, he wouldn't have needed to dive if he wasn't completely coasting earlier. If anything that video shows why he wasn't on the Wings roster. That slow coast was worse than Kane or Sprong, by a huge margin.

Confirmation bias is hilarious sometimes.

Anyway I'm not saying a 40 second clip proves everything or anything. But it's always a little curious when supposed horrible parts of a player's game seems so incredibly difficult to find any video of, and instead you have to resort to picking apart a video that anyone reasonable would agree shows a great defensive effort.

 

[Gniwder]

Confirmation bias is hilarious sometimes.

Anyway I'm not saying a 40 second clip proves everything or anything. But it's always a little curious when supposed horrible parts of a player's game seems so incredibly difficult to find any video of, and instead you have to resort to picking apart a video that anyone reasonable would agree shows a great defensive effort.

I can tell you didn't even rewatch the video.

Great effort to make up for pure laziness. At best it's a wash.

 

[jkutswings]

At this point Berggren should get 20 minutes a night with the Wings, with a custom jersey that's half Franzen and half Hossa.

The level of debate over a kid whose most likely outcome is to be just a footnote in the history of the team is very strange.

 

[Gniwder]

At this point Berggren should get 20 minutes a night with the Wings, with a custom jersey that's half Franzen and half Hossa.

(81 + 93)/2 = 87

I guess that's his new number

The level of debate over a kid whose most likely outcome is to be just a footnote in the history of the team is very strange.

He's the most NHL ready prospect that didn't finish the season on the Wings' roster. Doesn't mean he'll amount to anything more than a poor man's Sprong.

I found it weird that people think Sprong gets a free ride, he's been healthy scratched every season (8) of his NHL career. Burger needs to pay attention to that.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

At this point Berggren should get 20 minutes a night with the Wings, with a custom jersey that's half Franzen and half Hossa.

The level of debate over a kid whose most likely outcome is to be just a footnote in the history of the team is very strange.

It’s amazing you think he’ll be a footnote, tbh. I have a feeling he will be more like Mattias Ritola and Stacy Roest. Who if you didn’t see play when they were on the team.. you may as well think I’m making them up