VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
LOL. Horner is ranked 6th on two reputed boards AHEAD OF: Carl Brewer, Bill Barilko, Harry Watson, Jimmy Thomson, Babe Pratt.
SHALL we re-write history?
SHALL we re-write history?
Jim Coleman Conference Semi-Finals - New Jersey Swamp Devils (1) vs Milwaukee Admirals (4)
- Thread starter ImporterExporter
- Start date
Out of curiosity, which boards? Can you provide links to their rankings? I'm legitimately curious... I don't have Horner as a top-6 TML D, so I'd like to see where my opinion diverges from these reputable sources. Thanks.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Please see the NHL list or Toronto Star list. BOTH have my Horner top 6. Why is Dutton in this conversation? Absurd.
Last edited:
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
On nhl.com
THE ONE HUNDRED
1. Dave Keon
2. Syl Apps
3. Ted Kennedy
4. Darryl Sittler
5. Mats Sundin
6. Tim Horton
7. Johnny Bower
8. Borje Salming
9. Frank Mahovlich
10. Turk Broda
11. Charlie Conacher
12. George Armstrong
13. Doug Gilmour
14. Red Kelly
15. Wendel Clark
16. Busher Jackson
17. Hap Day
18. King Clancy
19. Lanny McDonald
20. Rick Vaive
21. Max Bentley
22. Joe Primeau
23. Allan Stanley
24. Ron Ellis
25. Ace Bailey
26. Bob Pulford
27. Red Horner
28. Dick Duff
29. Gord Drillon
30. Bob Baun
31. Babe Dye
32. Carl Brewer
THE ONE HUNDRED
1. Dave Keon
2. Syl Apps
3. Ted Kennedy
4. Darryl Sittler
5. Mats Sundin
6. Tim Horton
7. Johnny Bower
8. Borje Salming
9. Frank Mahovlich
10. Turk Broda
11. Charlie Conacher
12. George Armstrong
13. Doug Gilmour
14. Red Kelly
15. Wendel Clark
16. Busher Jackson
17. Hap Day
18. King Clancy
19. Lanny McDonald
20. Rick Vaive
21. Max Bentley
22. Joe Primeau
23. Allan Stanley
24. Ron Ellis
25. Ace Bailey
26. Bob Pulford
27. Red Horner
28. Dick Duff
29. Gord Drillon
30. Bob Baun
31. Babe Dye
32. Carl Brewer
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
There are two other Leaf top 100 lists that have Red Horner top 6 on d.
TDMM 's claim that he "isn't close" to top 6 Leafs dman ever is ... absurd. I thought TDMM better than that. He won't die on that hill because his popularity is a bullet-proof vest. Congrats.
Humanity is what it is.
TDMM 's claim that he "isn't close" to top 6 Leafs dman ever is ... absurd. I thought TDMM better than that. He won't die on that hill because his popularity is a bullet-proof vest. Congrats.
Humanity is what it is.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Sorry, there's no way that zero-time All-Star Red Horner can hold a candle to King Clancy, Tim Horton, Borje Salming, Carl Brewer, Allan Stanley, or Jimmy Thomson.
Not to mention lesser dmen like Mortson, who still have superior All-Star records to Horner.
Those media lists generally do a really poor job when it comes to pre-expansion hockey.
Not to mention lesser dmen like Mortson, who still have superior All-Star records to Horner.
Those media lists generally do a really poor job when it comes to pre-expansion hockey.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Conn Smythe said he would do it all again (return to the beginning) with two players, and one was Red Horner.
Read your history guys.
Dutton is absurd. Good but not the same level. Has the nickname "Red" , so 20% of the votes are already conflated.
Read your history guys.
Dutton is absurd. Good but not the same level. Has the nickname "Red" , so 20% of the votes are already conflated.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Here they said the greatest Leafs ever (5th on d is Horner):
1. Dave Keon: Winner of four Stanley Cups, Keon could be the best player on the ice and the key to winning even when he didn’t score.
2. Syl Apps: He retired at 33, but Apps left an indelible mark on the franchise and the team’s trophy case. He won the first-ever Calder Trophy in 1937.
3. Charlie Conacher: He was big, he was fast, he put the puck in the net for the Blue and White. Conacher led the league in scoring twice and in goals five times.
4. Teeder Kennedy: Never the most skilled player, Kennedy worked harder than anyone on the ice and raised the play of his teammates through sheer determination.
5. Johnny Bower: Bower didn’t suit up between the pipes for the Leafs until he was 33, but became a star as soon as he did. He eventually played the second-most minutes of anyone in team history.
6. Frank Mahovlich: The highest-scoring left winger the franchise has ever seen, he nearly became the second 50-goal scorer in NHL history with 48 markers in 1960-61.
7. Tim Horton: Before his name became synonymous with coffee, the blue-liner was selected to six post-season All-Star teams in his 20 seasons with the Leafs.
8. Borje Salming: The Swede was a prototypical two-way defenceman, giving as good as he got to both ends of the ice and expanding the fans’ idea of what European players could bring to the NHL.
9. Darryl Sittler: Sidney Crosby’s nickname is “Darryl,” after Sittler. That’s really all you need to know.
10. Mats Sundin: While his teams never reached the pinnacle of NHL success, Sundin sits atop the Buds’ all-time leaderboard in both goals and points.
11. King Clancy: A true do-it-all player, Clancy played all six positions in an NHL game before he joined up with the Leafs in 1930. He held a position with the organization until his death in 1986.
12. Turk Broda: He was the winningest goalie in Leafs history, and hoisted the cup five times. Bet you didn’t know his real first name was Walter, though, did you?
13. Doug Gilmour: Played only seven seasons in Toronto, but in his first with the team in 1991-92, he put up 127 points on 32 goals and 95 assists – the best season by any Leaf ever.
14. George Armstrong: One of the greatest captains in franchise history, “the Chief” potted an empty-net goal to help the team seal its last Stanley Cup win in 1967.
15. Busher Jackson: Effortless scorer, smooth skater, singular talent, alcoholic, convict – Jackson’s playing days as part of the “Kid Line” were as bright as his post-playing days were dark.
16. Red Kelly: A Leafs fan long before he ever put on the sweater, the Toronto-born pivot made eight semifinals in his eight years with the team.
17. Hap Day: Day earned his nickname for his jovial spirit, but he stuck in the league with smart, creative play that translated into a long coaching career.
18. Wendel Clark: You didn’t mess with Clark, or any of his teammates, and you can’t mess with his playoff record now. He still holds the franchise lead in post-season goals with 34.
19. Red Horner: Described by Maclean’s in 1935 as “hockey’s bad boy,” Horner finished his career with 1,254 penalty minutes. He also finished it with the “C” on his chest.
1. Dave Keon: Winner of four Stanley Cups, Keon could be the best player on the ice and the key to winning even when he didn’t score.
2. Syl Apps: He retired at 33, but Apps left an indelible mark on the franchise and the team’s trophy case. He won the first-ever Calder Trophy in 1937.
3. Charlie Conacher: He was big, he was fast, he put the puck in the net for the Blue and White. Conacher led the league in scoring twice and in goals five times.
4. Teeder Kennedy: Never the most skilled player, Kennedy worked harder than anyone on the ice and raised the play of his teammates through sheer determination.
5. Johnny Bower: Bower didn’t suit up between the pipes for the Leafs until he was 33, but became a star as soon as he did. He eventually played the second-most minutes of anyone in team history.
6. Frank Mahovlich: The highest-scoring left winger the franchise has ever seen, he nearly became the second 50-goal scorer in NHL history with 48 markers in 1960-61.
7. Tim Horton: Before his name became synonymous with coffee, the blue-liner was selected to six post-season All-Star teams in his 20 seasons with the Leafs.
8. Borje Salming: The Swede was a prototypical two-way defenceman, giving as good as he got to both ends of the ice and expanding the fans’ idea of what European players could bring to the NHL.
9. Darryl Sittler: Sidney Crosby’s nickname is “Darryl,” after Sittler. That’s really all you need to know.
10. Mats Sundin: While his teams never reached the pinnacle of NHL success, Sundin sits atop the Buds’ all-time leaderboard in both goals and points.
11. King Clancy: A true do-it-all player, Clancy played all six positions in an NHL game before he joined up with the Leafs in 1930. He held a position with the organization until his death in 1986.
12. Turk Broda: He was the winningest goalie in Leafs history, and hoisted the cup five times. Bet you didn’t know his real first name was Walter, though, did you?
13. Doug Gilmour: Played only seven seasons in Toronto, but in his first with the team in 1991-92, he put up 127 points on 32 goals and 95 assists – the best season by any Leaf ever.
14. George Armstrong: One of the greatest captains in franchise history, “the Chief” potted an empty-net goal to help the team seal its last Stanley Cup win in 1967.
15. Busher Jackson: Effortless scorer, smooth skater, singular talent, alcoholic, convict – Jackson’s playing days as part of the “Kid Line” were as bright as his post-playing days were dark.
16. Red Kelly: A Leafs fan long before he ever put on the sweater, the Toronto-born pivot made eight semifinals in his eight years with the team.
17. Hap Day: Day earned his nickname for his jovial spirit, but he stuck in the league with smart, creative play that translated into a long coaching career.
18. Wendel Clark: You didn’t mess with Clark, or any of his teammates, and you can’t mess with his playoff record now. He still holds the franchise lead in post-season goals with 34.
19. Red Horner: Described by Maclean’s in 1935 as “hockey’s bad boy,” Horner finished his career with 1,254 penalty minutes. He also finished it with the “C” on his chest.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Pulford - Horner (with Gonchar in play)
... the best depth in this draft.
Whatever else you may think of the team, this is undeniable.
... the best depth in this draft.
Whatever else you may think of the team, this is undeniable.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Wish we had hashed out Suchy vs. Gadsby.
Jan Suchy deserves some love. Gadsby is always underrated.
Jan Suchy deserves some love. Gadsby is always underrated.
sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
- 11,955
- 6,385
I wonder if Red Dutton's dynamics compared to Herb Gardiner is a bit similar to Dougie Hamilton's dynamics to Jaccob Slavin, meaning a player looking a bit better due to his teammate.
Both Hamilton and Slavin's got a 5th Norris vote at best (so far), but I think we all know the better overall player between those two guys. Hamilton was even on the 20–21 2nd All-Star team alongside Victor Hedman, in front of Slavin.
Mind you here, I'm not making a straight comparison here between Dutton and Hamilton, because their styles and overall impacts were probably a bit dissimilar. Only pointing out All-Star selections probably shouldn't be a be-all and end-all argument, without context applied.
If Hamilton can end up on an All-Star team in front of his superior D partner in 2021, similar things could obviously happen also in the 1910s or 1920s.
That said, I don't know much about Red Horner so I have no opinion on that discussion.
Both Hamilton and Slavin's got a 5th Norris vote at best (so far), but I think we all know the better overall player between those two guys. Hamilton was even on the 20–21 2nd All-Star team alongside Victor Hedman, in front of Slavin.
Mind you here, I'm not making a straight comparison here between Dutton and Hamilton, because their styles and overall impacts were probably a bit dissimilar. Only pointing out All-Star selections probably shouldn't be a be-all and end-all argument, without context applied.
If Hamilton can end up on an All-Star team in front of his superior D partner in 2021, similar things could obviously happen also in the 1910s or 1920s.
That said, I don't know much about Red Horner so I have no opinion on that discussion.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
I think Gonchar is a clear step up from either Red and still can't believe no team found room for him in their starting lineup.
(Though not if you are trying to make a "defensive" bottom pair like both of us obviously were)
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 48,867
- 29,477
Agree on Suchy, but there still seems to be a bit of a gap to Gadsby.
For the record - I really liked your team. I had this series going 7 in a coin flip, but ultimately the strength of TDMM's top pairing is just hard to overcome. I think he had the worst (maybe second worst?) goalie in the draft, but if you're going to go cheap on goaltending going heavy on D plus competent defensive Cs is the way to do it.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Shall i again, quote a 4th reputable source that has Horner one of the top-6 Leafs ever?!
Why can a guy lie through his teeth without any blowback? The emperor has awesome clothes!
Post automatically merged:
Why can a guy lie through his teeth without any blowback? The emperor has awesome clothes!
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
Around the League Thread | Conference Final Edition | We Are All Kevin Bieksa- Latest: Baby Pettersson
